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tharkan
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Ok, so I played the game for a bit, and then I left it. Then I came back and started over from the beginning. I decided to make a new character with the same archetype (Behemoth) as my old character, but created a new origin.
To make a long story short (will probably post the full background that I wrote in the character profile eventually), the character used to be a young boy that made an unecessary deal with a demon and was screwed over. He was turned into a lady demon of tremendous size and power, and spent the last thousand years (in which only one year passed on Earth) in an amnesiac state, thinking that he had always been a she, that nobody liked her, and that the master of the demon he made a deal with actually did her a favor by bringing her to his realm and changing her. Of course, one of the demon lord's servants stole a powerful magical artifact and made the stupid mistake of leaving a trail for some heroes to track, one of which was actually related to my character, and managed to free her from the demon lord's spell (it only brought back his memories, and he remained a giant demon lady). So now she is in Millenium City, super heroing about and living out life as a giant demon lady.
So that is the backstory, now for the costumes.
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg220/scaled.php?server=220&filename=2012073100005.jpg&res=landing
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg201/scaled.php?server=201&filename=costumemaddemon64ravede.jpg&res=landing
Basically that is her "civilian" look, admittedly not much of a secret identity, but she doesn't really care for such things most of the time. She usually looks like this when she is fighting lowly thugs or when she goes clubbing.
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg833/scaled.php?server=833&filename=2012073100003.jpg&res=landing
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg641/scaled.php?server=641&filename=costumemaddemon64ravede.jpg&res=landing
This is her most recent look. She decided to make her own super hero costume, and this is what she came up with. She perfers to look like this when she gets serious and starts fighting the higher up supervillains.
Not shown in the pictures (blame my poor photography skills) is a tail.
Also, I have a bit of a theme going on that she likes to wear trophies from vanquished enemies, hence the Qliphothic shoulder pad and bracer, Jewel of Edom, and Cobra Lords chain belt.
So, there you have it. A boy turned super-strong giant demoness super hero and her costumes. I would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions, etc. people have for my character (if you have suggestions, i would appreciate a picture as well).
*Edit* Ok I'm sad now. Nobody has made a single response post. Why, is my character design that bad?
To make a long story short (will probably post the full background that I wrote in the character profile eventually), the character used to be a young boy that made an unecessary deal with a demon and was screwed over. He was turned into a lady demon of tremendous size and power, and spent the last thousand years (in which only one year passed on Earth) in an amnesiac state, thinking that he had always been a she, that nobody liked her, and that the master of the demon he made a deal with actually did her a favor by bringing her to his realm and changing her. Of course, one of the demon lord's servants stole a powerful magical artifact and made the stupid mistake of leaving a trail for some heroes to track, one of which was actually related to my character, and managed to free her from the demon lord's spell (it only brought back his memories, and he remained a giant demon lady). So now she is in Millenium City, super heroing about and living out life as a giant demon lady.
So that is the backstory, now for the costumes.
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg220/scaled.php?server=220&filename=2012073100005.jpg&res=landing
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg201/scaled.php?server=201&filename=costumemaddemon64ravede.jpg&res=landing
Basically that is her "civilian" look, admittedly not much of a secret identity, but she doesn't really care for such things most of the time. She usually looks like this when she is fighting lowly thugs or when she goes clubbing.
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg833/scaled.php?server=833&filename=2012073100003.jpg&res=landing
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg641/scaled.php?server=641&filename=costumemaddemon64ravede.jpg&res=landing
This is her most recent look. She decided to make her own super hero costume, and this is what she came up with. She perfers to look like this when she gets serious and starts fighting the higher up supervillains.
Not shown in the pictures (blame my poor photography skills) is a tail.
Also, I have a bit of a theme going on that she likes to wear trophies from vanquished enemies, hence the Qliphothic shoulder pad and bracer, Jewel of Edom, and Cobra Lords chain belt.
So, there you have it. A boy turned super-strong giant demoness super hero and her costumes. I would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions, etc. people have for my character (if you have suggestions, i would appreciate a picture as well).
*Edit* Ok I'm sad now. Nobody has made a single response post. Why, is my character design that bad?
Post edited by tharkan on
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Pretty please?
I pretty much dislike the whole "demonic hero" thing... feels so overdone in this game.
But, I'll tell you what I think could use help, about the costumes. All the colors really run together or just straight up clash. On the civilian outfit, you've got red skin, red shirt, pink claws, and purple glow. How about some colors that compliment the skin? Some dark greens could help, maybe with yellow accents. The purple glowing over red skin doesn't look good to me. Maybe if it was a much lighter purple, so it looks more white than purple. Currently, I look at the character and it just looks like a big pile of reddish brown.
Same with the tights costume, it looks very bland. That green-brown, tan, black you've got going on there isn't working for me. Try some white, something that stands out. I do like that there's less spikes on this one, but the arm armor, black with purple glow - again, it's just clashing with the skin.
All in all, there's nothing really eye-catching on it. Nothing very different. Nothing that stands out for someone to remember seeing you, you know? If you want to put a symbol on the chest, try making it bright (and I don't just mean make it glow all the way). What I see now is "dark" and "demon" which, in this game, are completely unremarkable.
Hope you got something positive out of this, don't mean to just dump on your character.
This is not an overexaggeration, absolutely everything about that character needs attending to.
I am sorry to be the bearer of such sad tidings.
I guess it does help, but there is nothing that I can do about the purple glow, since that is a result of the edom costume parts. Also the arm armor is supposed to be her way of showing off trophies from surviving the Qliphothic realm, taken directly from a defeated resident of Qliphoth, and I want to keep those. Got any suggestions on what to make her wear that goes with them?
Also, regarding your dislike of demonic heroes, I would like to point out that this is a super hero MMO, and EVERY origin has been done to death. For every demon there are five spirits of vengence that rose due to their parent's murder, at least ten tragic accidents that required prosthetic body parts or something that can run a power suit, and maybe six genetic experiments by mad scientists that fought against them and became a super hero (would it help you that my first character design was a college student that was kidnapped by a professor who worked at her college and decided to experiment on her to make her into a manimal?)
*Edit* I am sorry, but try as I might, I just can't get used to seeing my character in the colors you suggested. Maybe its due to the fact that my civilian costume uses my super group's colors. Maybe I just got too used to the colors and costume style.
Well then, tell me what you think needs to be changed.
Edit: If those pieces (the glow ones) have to absolutely stay... then you'll need to change your color scheme accordingly. Switch the whole thing to use blacks, purples and maybe some pink-ish highlights.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Click up there if you want to find more about the costumes behind my heroines.
I will see if I can make something work.
*Edit* No matter how much I try, I just can't seem to picture anyone's suggestions and work it into a working costume. Maybe pictures would help. I dunno.
The thing in here is that it has to be a costume that you like. All I can give you, its what I already did, a general guideline on how not to make colors clash horribly as they are right now, but how you execute it, its all up to you, your creativity and your taste. After all you are going to be the one playing that character, in a certain way this is a very personal process.
For instance... if it was me I would just get rid of the glowing pieces, but... that's me because I don't care about any character backstory, I am a costume/power selection person, and don't see further than that. And I know that you do care about the story that you've crafted... see what I mean with a personal process in here?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Click up there if you want to find more about the costumes behind my heroines.
Yea I guess. thanks
I'm not really gonna get into the whole demonic thing because no one's ever gonna agree with each other in this type of discussion, so we'll just move on.
Okay, so reading your response (and being at home this time), I fired up your costume files and made some changes.
Note that I don't have some of the costume pieces you have. The scarab thingy didn't show up on the character, so it's gone - it wasn't removed on purpose. Also, her feet turned normal, but I changed them to the Halloween feet, so those might change back for you.
In the super hero version costume, I kinda just expanded the purple color palette, since you needed to keep those pieces. I changed her costume to be mostly purples. I still think it's too close to the skin color, but what you gonna do?
For the street wear costume, I darkened the top, but gave it a bright border to bring in some contrast. Same with the belt, made it mostly a bright grey with a bit of a bluish hue to it. For the choker, I just pumped up the contrast. Darker strap, brighter circle thingy.
Also for this one, I changed the blue lines in the horns to a darker brown. Those kinda clashed for me.
Also, one thing that I would change on this costume, is I would give her briefs to just complete her top, like a one-piece.
Sorry if I was too critical before, but, you asked!
Hope you like these, and hopefully maybe see where I was coming from. But, like Cascadence said, the main thing is coming up with something that you like. If you like where your costume's at, no need to change it!
Duh, forgot to link the costumes.
http://imagehosting.smackwell.com/champions/Costumes/Costume_Smackwell_Demon%20Girl_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_398105830.jpg
http://imagehosting.smackwell.com/champions/Costumes/Costume_Smackwell_Demon%20Girl%202_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_398106175.jpg
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Secondly the colours are frankly terrible. They do not compliment each other at all. I suggest using a colour wheel to help choose colours. Smackwells suggestions are good ones, but if I am honest, I don't like his improved costumes, but they are better than the originals.
I have linked a few files that might help, click highlighted text:
My take on the Irish deity Morrigan
My half angel, half demon Intercessor, admittedly partially stereotypical, but still quite unique.
Finally an entry for the Supervillain competition which stood out for me, note she is not my design.
Rave Demon "civilian" outfit
Rave Demon hero outfit
I didn't make too many changes, just changed the claw colors, added in the Edom costumes, etc. Although C3rvand0, I did like your intercessor design. I might make Rave Demon take up some armor later on in her heroing career as a "logical" progression in her hero costume.
As for her shape, well, I must ask, did you try loading it up on your character creation? The thing I was going for was a "guy turned girl turned giant attractive demoness", with the base shape partially inspired by his psyche. The guy before his deal with a demon was short, so his point of view was skewed, and a lot of people were taller than him, and how he viewed himself in his mind made the difference between his height and other people's heights much larger than it actually was. When he made the deal with the demon, he wanted to be more attractive, taller and stronger than he was, and his mind skewed the attractiveness, height, and strength to near ridiculous proportions, resulting in the shape that I decided to make my character. So while I can agree about the costume colors, you could say that the base shape for my character is non-negotiable.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Huh, must have missed ya. Was she wearing the civilian clothes I originally posted or the new ones?
Well thanks, and no, you did not offend me.
Regarding shape - I wasn't very fond of the shape of the character either, but really only on two points. The shoulders are too big. You can have a "manly" looking torso just by going wide on the chest width, and tone the shoulders down a little. They just look unrealistic (setting aside the fact we're talking about a demon here!).
Same goes for the thighs. The thighs stick out way too much on the outside and inside. I would reduce the upper leg sliders a bit, and increase the waist size.
Those are the only slider changes I'd make.
Regarding the costume - One of the things I noticed, especially on the super hero version of the costume, is that there wasn't a lot of clutter. The costumes you linked, while nice, all have armor and spiky bits and stuff and strappy stuff. I can appreciate the original designs for having a "less is more" quality.
I was thinking about removing the spikes due to clipping. Might do that eventually. As for the character shape, again, not changing that.
Good. Sometimes constructive criticism is taken badly, I am glad you are mature enough to understand.
I know your abiding hatred of non tights
Thought I had an image of Captain Americlown saved, turns out I was wrong. I'll attach one later, see if that jogs your memory.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Please excuse the dance in front of the cake, as I couldn't get her to stand still for a picture (get her and any party together and she suddenly has the attention span of a goldfish).
Rave Demon's New Clothes
Again, I seek any advice, opinion, and (constructive) criticism you have to offer.
I won't give you any advices, because I read all of the comments before this post and I know from it that you are not going to change her shape and her shape is what I dislike the most.
But anyways, my opinion is here. I have nothing against demon characters. I had few demon characters, but the thing is, I don't really like red skined demons. I find red skin colour to be to bright (well, dark red is fine, but in skin colour selection there is no dark enough red). Personally I just can't stand it, everytime I see red Hellboy/Hellgirl like thing I just look other way. Have you ever considered changing skin colour? I noticed that black skin (completely black) looks nice with red eyes/hair/clothes/spikes/horns/different small pieces. Black skin actually looks nice with any other colour. As white does... I guess that's why those 2 colours are my favorite.
Trouble is black skin is also overdone. The combination of black, white and red, whilst it does look good, is so overdone, it has gone beyond a cliche.
I completely agree with you. But does that really matter? As long as character looks good, who cares how overdone it is? Yea, sure, making clones never is a good idea, but still. Most of my characters wear clothes/armors with combinations of black/white/red, usually it's white hair with black and red clothes or armor. Yes, it is overdone, but it looks good. I mean I can put some white/blue/dark blue or black/yellow/green costumes on them, that will look good to, but black/white/red just is the best colour combination for me. And if it is the best colour combination for most, then why should I play something I don't like just because what I like is what everyone else likes?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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The new look is much improved. My only nit pick (and its a personal pet peeve of mine, so take it for what it is) Is the proportions of your head.
After buffing up all the body sliders, people seem to always neglect the head. So you end up with a barbie doll with a pin head look. Ones boobs should not be bigger then ones head.
Are you familiar with Jollyjack? He is a popular artist on deviantart, and creator of the uber-muscular "kitty hulk" Ellie.
Ellie is one of Jollyjacks' post popular characters, and part of what makes her so popular is the fact that despite her gigantic body (muscles and breasts included), she has a relatively tiny head. Jollyjack has explained that despite everything else growing, the head does not, giving the illusion of a tiny head.
Besides that is a pretty decent costume, way better than before, even if its a homage (or looks like one)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Click up there if you want to find more about the costumes behind my heroines.
I was not aware that my new costume is an homage to anything.
Mind filling me in?
Gave me a Hellboy vibe, but actually nvm, its not even close.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Click up there if you want to find more about the costumes behind my heroines.
Right hand differs from left (slightly bigger because of the chain), red skin, horns (even if 4 not 2) and a googles on the head. Not sure, was Hellboy using googles or not, but his cut off horns do look like ones. So yea, she does look like a female Hellboy version. I wouldn't call her a homage, because I am pretty sure Hellboy wasn't what you was thinking about while making her, but Hellboy is exactly what will come to mind first for most who will see her.
Well thanks.
Instead of offering to fix your costume - which I can't, as I'm not too well-versed with the Champions costume editor - I'll offer a few basic tips on making characters interesting and memorable via the use of colour.
Basically, what you want is contrast, but not just "slap any random colours together and call it contrast." There is such a thing as too much contrast and there is such a thing as too little contrast, and I definitely feel you have too little in all your attempts. Contrast is important because that's what you use to distinguish different costume "themes" apart from one another, so that an observer's eye is drawn to the broader details and the observer's mind has a much simpler picture to remember. Even something as simple as "that red girl in yellow spandex" is easier to remember than "the red girl with these horns and that shirt and those pants and those patterns with this and that and this." Colour is what makes a complex costume easy enough for people to take away from meeting you.
What IS contrast, though? To me, there are several kinds of contrast you want to keep in mind:
Colour space: Colour generally goes from Red to Yellow to Green to Cyan to Blue to Magenta and then then back again. When you want contrasting colours, pick two that aren't "next to each other." Red and Yellow are close. Red and Orange are even closer. Red and Cyan, though, contrast each other.
Primary vs secondary colours: Red, Green and Blue count as primary colours while Yellow, Cyan and Magenta count as secondary. Generally, if you pick a primary colour as your base, pick a secondary colour for detail It stands out much more so.
Bright vs. dark colours: The WORST thing you can do to a costume is pick neon blue and bright yellow. It makes you look like a clown. If you pick a bright colour for your pirmary, choose a dark or desaturated colour for your secondary. Mix dark and light colours to define shapes.
Colour vs. Greyscale: Black, White and the range of greys between them don't count as "colours," and thus will contrast any colour in the rainbow well enough, so long as you match light/dark or saturated/faded. If you pick a dark, saturated base, a light Grey or a White will do nicely for contrast. If you pick a very colourful or very bright base, a Black or dark Grey secondary will help.
Don't be loud: Contrast is great, but don't add too many colours, at least not all on the same item. Yes, Champions lets you have four colours per item, but that doesn't mean you SHOULD put four colours per item. In fact, Very often you don't want more than one, or at most one for most of the item with another as a highlight or detail.
Most importantly, think globally. You want to make a colour scheme for the whole character so that when I look at it, I know what your character looks like. Don't get bogged down making mini colour schemes for your various items too much, as that makes the costume too busy and I don't know what I'm looking at without ogling you. Zoom out, look at your character and try to see if you can describe him or her in a single sentence. If you can't, that's not "bad," but you may want to trim some of the complexity.
Also, put reason to your colours. Can I generalise which part of your character are what colour? Say you have dark red skin. That's fine, you have red and it's designated "skin." Say you then have white fabric clothes. OK, that's white - it's bright and contrasts the dark red, and it's designated "fabric." Say you then have armour bits that are coloured cyan. OK, that's still white and a colour, so it contrasts well, and it's designated "armour." If I see this, I know that this is "a red person in white fabric and cyan armour." I can parse that, I can remember it, and I'll think about it next time I go to make a costume. But once you do that, you're kind of out of colours since any other colour you use aside from black. Add any more, and you risk becoming "loud."
You can have an amazing array of colours on a character, but you need to be very careful what those are and where you use them. If you HAVE to have, say, five colours, then make sure you restrict one or even two to isolated elements. Say you have a green man with black clothes and white armour, but you also want red. The red can be only a single item, say a signature piece of red-tinted shades. Now say you also want yellow. This could be a single yellow belt buckle. Or you could go with two sets of two-colour items, like chitinous red-and-green skin and shiny blue-and-black metal armour, with yellow glowing eyes. That could work, but it has to have a reason to exist.
Basically, think like this:
If you were in a crowded spot, say in the Power House, and I ran by you... Would I see you in the crowd, and would I remember what you looked like? Because that does count.
Of all the things I've lost,
It think I miss my mind the most.
Well, given that I tend to use the super-magnifier a lot, I would say that you would remember what I looked like, as I would be the only giant demoness there.
Giant demoness' aren't as rare as you think.....unfortunately.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Seriously, you want to stand out. Wear spandex.
Sadly, I have to join the others - giant demons are not that rare, and I've only been really looking for a few days. One trip through Reneisance Centre or the Millenium City Power House has decent shot at yielding either a giant demon or a giant robot. This isn't to say that a giant demon is a BAD idea, just that it's not enough to stand out.
You have to remember that you can't stand out for having purchased something or having used a specific theme or specific pieces. Those help, but what people remember is what you DID with them, which is also where the real artistry of costume design takes place. Even with just a size booster, there's a lot you can do to make a character look big before you even mess with their overall size, just as a random example.
What you should take away from this thread isn't whether people like or don't like your costume. That's fiercely personal and just not objective. We each like what we're predisposed to like, and that's fine. Instead, take away that those who are likely to stop and take note of costumes, those who would appreciate them, are looking for a unique, personal touch that shows you put something of yourself in the costume, rather than taking a basic theme. You never want to be "another" anything or "one of those" anything, and you need to set yourself apart for it.
I don't actually have a problem with your costume per se. I find your physical build to be pretty and the idea interesting (weird, but interesting). But I really don't think it's a good idea to pair red with black and purple. Everyone's made red demons. Everyone's made red-and-black demons. You need to do something more or something else to count. You CAN make a red demon work. But you have to work at it.
---
On a completely unrelated topic: Story - you need more of it. Yes, you have a good basic idea, but just based on that, you can't really make a story. You can make a setting but that lacks structure. You don't have to write a novel, obviously, but you generally want to have at least a few rudimentary actual stories involving your character. This informs how the character behaves, which in turn informs how the character holds herself, which will then reflect on how she dresses.
A proud character would hold her look in high regard and her costume would therefore be designed to dazzle. A feral character wouldn't care simple beauty and would thus dress to impose or perhaps for convenience. An eldritch demon would have had aeons to observe and judge worldly fashions and might, as such, have a favourite epoch that isn't consistent with modernity. That sort of thing.
Many people underestimate the power of minutiae when that's where a character's true strength lies. That's the "show" part of "show and tell," because it's the minor personality quirks that make a character unique. Broad character personalities and archetypes are actually very few in diversity, but it's HOW those characters come together - the execution - that matters. Make a character that's "real" enough and what makes sense for her to wear will come up on its own.
Of all the things I've lost,
It think I miss my mind the most.
Well, not necessarily. I'd say "put your own spin on it" for any design. I get the feeling Champions players feel spandex costumes are under-represented, and they kind of are, admittedly. But "wears spandex" really isn't much more unique than "giant demon" unless you do something to set it apart. There are no easy solutions to character design.
Of all the things I've lost,
It think I miss my mind the most.
Huh, I don't seem to see them very often. I do see a lot of werewolves though.
Sorry, it seems I neglected to indicate my statement was a joke by adding an appropriate smiley.
Anyhow to put the joke in context. A large complaint by old timer forum folks is CO really needs more tights options. MOAR TIGHTS is often at the top of costume requests lists.
And with good reason. The light tone and bright graphics of the game lends itself well to the older silver and golden age comics. Its just funny that those seem under represented.
Not that a have a problem with the more gritty iron age and grimdark characters that seem to be vastly more popular. They are as viable a comic trope as any. I just always felt those type of characters were better represented in darker more gritty settings like COH then here.
Of all the things I've lost,
It think I miss my mind the most.