=Famous Superhero Archetypes=

thetruthurts · September 2012

While we are not supposed to make visual copies of famous superheros, there is nothing wrong with copying their build/power set. Some are pretty obvious:

Night Avenger = Batman
Invincible = Iron Man
Devastator = Thor

Others are not as obvious. Which archetypes or builds do you think fit the famous superheroes we all know and love?

agentnx5 · September 2012

Real simple rule-of-thumb:

OK: Making a hommage to an existing character.

NOT OK: Making an exact clone of that character.

None of the archetypes are exact copies, although you see many who try to make exact copies (i.e.: "Hulk" Behemoths). The appearance and name also matters.

theapygoos · September 2012

agent makes a very good point, but just to get some names out there

Dualblade/Unleashed: Nightwing [using the nightsticks]

sorcery/grimorie: Dr. Strange, Dr. Fate, Zatanna, most magic heroes

Might/enrage: hulk, , the list goes on

Might/defiance/invuln: supes, etc

fighting claws/regen:X23, wolverine

Fire/telepathy/TK: the Phoenix/dark Phoenix/White Phoenix of the crown

TK/colored weapons: GL corps, or any light construct concept

thetruthurts · September 2012

agentnx5 wrote: »

Real simple rule-of-thumb:

OK: Making a hommage to an existing character.

NOT OK: Making an exact clone of that character.

None of the archetypes are exact copies, although you see many who try to make exact copies (i.e.: "Hulk" Behemoths). The appearance and name also matters.

This has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I am talking about powers/builds, not visuals/names.

canadascott · September 2012

agentnx5 wrote: »

Real simple rule-of-thumb:

OK: Making a hommage to an existing character.

NOT OK: Making an exact clone of that character.

None of the archetypes are exact copies, although you see many who try to make exact copies (i.e.: "Hulk" Behemoths). The appearance and name also matters.

Exactly. This is a superhero game, it *needs* to support genre tropes, despite the insistence of much of the game's population that this is a demon/darkspawn MMO.

If you're putting together collections of archetypes, they're going to reflect characters from the source material. Or you'll be standing around why the Batman-y archetype breathes fire or the Hulky archetype leeches someone's life force (unless you're one of those darkspawny players who wants every character to drain life force regardless of concept.

)

Also, names can be covered by IP laws. Powersets, not so much. There's a reason why the existence of the Flash doesn't prevent Marvel from having Quicksilver, to use one of many examples.

As for other models: Inferno=Human Torch (though without the signature fire rings), the Glacier=Iceman, and the the Marksman=Hawkeye or Green Arrow (sans boxing glove arrow). I'd say Behemoth is more Hulk than Supes. The enrage mecnanic in game pretty much screams Hulk.

biffsmackwell · September 2012

thetruthurts wrote: »

While we are not supposed to make visual copies of famous superheros, there is nothing wrong with copying their build/power set. Some are pretty obvious:

Night Avenger = Batman

Invincible = Iron Man

Devastator = Thor

Others are not as obvious. Which archetypes or builds do you think fit the famous superheroes we all know and love?

Unleashed - Sith (Very likely inspired by The Force Unleashed, where you play as Darth Vader's apprentice)

Scourge - Spawn

chalupaoffury · September 2012

Night warrior/force: invisible woman.
Way of the warrior/dragon kick/dragon uppercut/burning chi fist: Ryu or Ken.
ice: man.
might/unstoppable: wonder woman/power girl/rogue (devour essence for extra realism with that last one)
quarry/muni: the punisher
tk blades/dodge: Psylocke
wind/elec/ice: storm
I tend to see infernal more as ghost rider than spawn.

I'm still trying to figure out what darkness would embody. I'm guessing Raven is the closest, from teen titans.

lotar295 · September 2012

while no AT is a carbon copy of a superhero,and are inspired/homages to him/her

Unleashed:jedi

squall:storm

Savage:wolverine/werewolf

Void:Raven/various other dark heroes whose names escape me right now

scourge:ghost rider but green

Cursed:red ghost rider

behemoth:hulk/superman

Impulse:Invisible woman

Soldier:Punisher

the fist:iron fist mostly,but can make superspeeder toons and regular toons out of it too

Telekinesis/force colored green:GL corps

and thats just a few of them

flyingfinn · September 2012

Kind of hard to make a superhero game without the basic herotypes that exist in every supercomicbook.

towershield · September 2012

Here's who the ATs remind me of. In no particular order.

Specialist: Deadpool
[*]Savage: Sabretooth among many others
[*]Soldier: Punisher
[*]Tempset: Lightning Lad/Lass
[*]Inferno: Pyro, Human Torch
[*]Fist: Danny Rand
[*]Master: Shang-Chi
[*]Marksman: Any of the notable archers from comics.
[*]Mountain: Terra
[*]Glacier: Iceman
[*]Impulse: Graviton
[*]Void: Shade
[*]Radiant: eh...
[*]Inventor: Forge
[*]Mind: Psimon (DC)
[*]Squall: Red Tornado
[*]Scourge/Cursed: Spawn/Ghost Rider for the chains, Pestilence (Marvel) for the poison
[*]Blade: Katana, Silver Samurai
[*]Grimoire: Doc Strange
[*]Disciple: Psylocke
[*]Behemoth: Strong Guy
[*]Devastator: Beta Ray Bill (Thor was mentioned already)
[*]Invincible: Robert Downey Jr.
[*]Unleashed: Numerous generic Jedi/Sith
[*]Night Avenger: Moon Knight

nepht · September 2012

LOL ...I have been working on a "plumber" build with super jump , enrage might / inferno powers.

Guess whut my fave game is

(do not say Champions -.- )

chalupaoffury · September 2012

nepht wrote: »

LOL ...I have been working on a "plumber" build with super jump , enrage might / inferno powers.

Guess whut my fave game is (do not say Champions -.- )

haha awesome. havoc stomp.

towershield · September 2012

nepht wrote: »

LOL ...I have been working on a "plumber" build with super jump , enrage might / inferno powers.

Guess whut my fave game is (do not say Champions -.- )

Will this include Cape Glide when it becomes available?

cybersoldier1981 · September 2012

Night Avenger: Predator.

nepht · September 2012

shieldtower wrote: »

Will this include Cape Glide when it becomes available?

chalupaoffury wrote: »

haha awesome. havoc stomp.

Sirs that what you just said is so full of epic win.

jorifice1 · September 2012

How a "Classic" look, maybe with a giant Hammer, but only in emergencies?
And a great big Monkey Nemesis?
.
.
.

agentnx5 · September 2012

[removed for clarification by me]

I know what you're trying to get at, that you think it's a double-standard, but you're just seeing this from a bad angle with way to narrowminded a point of view in this case, IMHO.

Heck it's even allowed in other cartoons! I mean can you even count the number of homages in this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtK5oJVt3I4

Visuals and names are often when it crosses the line, also keep in mind that the particular cartoon I posted had to get permission to use Robin, even though he was an auxillary character created originally just to make Batman more "family friendly" with conservative members of the US congress who felt it had become too violent. (same conservative lobbyists who created the ESRB after freaking out over the original Mortal Kombat).

But anyways enough with history & precedent examples, the point is that the name and the appearance is the more concrete identifier and creative mixes are good.

Here's another way to think about it possibly:
Nighthawk is obvious an homage to Batman, but it's never going to be exactly the same. Batman employs a wider variety of gadget technologies, including stuff we DON'T have as powers in the game or things that function differently. Heck in this game you don't even technically aim, it's targeted (i.e.: Have you ever seem homing bottles or zombie bones before in films? I certainly haven't). So the powers are most certainly NOT copied, they are inspired.

canadascott wrote: »

Exactly. This is a superhero game, it *needs* to support genre tropes, despite the insistence of much of the game's population that this is a demon/darkspawn MMO. If you're putting together collections of archetypes, they're going to reflect characters from the source material. Or you'll be standing around why the Batman-y archetype breathes fire or the Hulky archetype leeches someone's life force (unless you're one of those darkspawny players who wants every character to drain life force regardless of concept. )

Also, names can be covered by IP laws. Powersets, not so much. There's a reason why the existence of the Flash doesn't prevent Marvel from having Quicksilver, to use one of many examples.

As for other models: Inferno=Human Torch (though without the signature fire rings), the Glacier=Iceman, and the the Marksman=Hawkeye or Green Arrow (sans boxing glove arrow). I'd say Behemoth is more Hulk than Supes. The enrage mechanic in game pretty much screams Hulk.

QFT, I agree strongly with you.

Also, IMHO, the mark of a true freeform power selection with good selections and a good character creator is that you can created exactly clones that infringe on copyrighted intellectual property in an obvious way.

It's just a side-effect of having a good customization system, and we shouldn't change that for the world! (I'm saying it's a good thing that it's possible to do, even though making clones is something you shouldn't be doing)

What I stated very quickly with OK and NOT OK is correct and easy to remember. I'd suggest y'all remember it, and also keep in mind that the more original or creative, the more props to your originality and talents! It's flattering if you can come up with original designs.

jorifice1 wrote: »

How a "Classic" look, maybe with a giant Hammer, but only in emergencies?

*ahem* http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=170281

(well not in appearance, but in how they move)

And a great big Monkey Nemesis?

I have a friend who has an "Evil Dr. Silverback" homage character. This character of his uses Might & Gadgeteering, but had different colored fur and glowing "cursed" eyes. His lore is that he comes from Multifaria (see: Resistance Adventure Pack, I don't want to spoil it for those who haven't played it yet).

In fact all of the boss villain characters of Multifaria are homages of the original heroes of Earth's universe.

nepht · September 2012

LOL I aint doing monkey nem I aint doing costume ....dont want sued ...seriously ...dont want sued..Grintendo love to sue.

Na I'm just playing with giant growth and fire powers to see if the plumbers powerset is possible.

agentnx5 · September 2012

nepht wrote: »

LOL I aint doing monkey nem I aint doing costume ....dont want sued ...seriously ...dont want sued..Grintendo love to sue.

Na I'm just playing with giant growth and fire powers to see if the plumbers powerset is possible.

You're still needing a plunger I think, and overalls, and that beanie-style hat. ^_^

On a serious note though, I prefer to create original characters with theme builds that match their lore. And when I say theme builds, I go for powerful ones too; enough that they can hold their own in PvP or rock out on PvE Elite 5-man-team.

towershield · September 2012

agentnx5 wrote: »

Sorry, wrong. What I said previously has almost everything to do with that you're talking about, actually. Please stop being so closed-minded and listen to what people are trying to tell you here, we're trying to explain it (most of us by giving examples). -snip-

I wanted to stop reading there but I read and re-read your post a few times to see if I was missing some sort of joke but found none.

The OP was clear enough in what he was asking for and even pointed out that this isn't about making clone characters and you're going to sit there and insist that he's wrong? That you know the reason why he made this thread better than he does?

Seriously? I feel like I'm on crazy pills or something. Unless there's some really REALLY well hidden joke in your post, it's tantamount to trolling.

agentnx5 · September 2012

Hmm...

I read this:

thetruthurts wrote: »

While we are not supposed to make visual copies of famous superheros, there is nothing wrong with copying their build/power set. Some are pretty obvious:

Night Avenger = Batman

Invincible = Iron Man

Devastator = Thor

Others are not as obvious. Which archetypes or builds do you think fit the famous superheroes we all know and love?

...as asking the question why we're allowed to make clones in power sets but not appearances, that it's a BS double standard on Cryptic's part. The perception of this is partly due to a friend who kept having an argument with Cryptic about his spawn costume set.

Speaking of which: Scourge + Near-identical appearance --> Spawn

My point was you're not going to get an exact copy, and even with what you do you're going to have variations in function, because the mechanics are different.

I wasn't very clear on that and I've stricken the previous segment from my post as it's meandering and could be taken offensively. Sorry about that, perhaps I'm the one who's wrong for reading too much into it. I assumed this was just another "Cryptic sux" type of topic like the last one or two that debated on clones.

That said, who are you to judge me ShieldTower? (i.e.: DEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD! in your signature) :-/ That kind of irks me that you'd flame me unprovoked.

Ugh, let's just drop it. Your post #10 was a solid list, my post #2 was short & sweet; and it should have been left at that.

vorshoth · September 2012

Is amazed after a brief scan of this thread that nobody considers the Ever Lovin' Blue Eyed Thing as being whom the Mountain looks like at least.
...Wait. Does that mean Roxstar, whom the Mountain was based on started off as a Thing homage? Rad.

towershield · September 2012

vorshoth wrote: »

Is amazed after a brief scan of this thread that nobody considers the Ever Lovin' Blue Eyed Thing as being whom the Mountain looks like at least.
...Wait. Does that mean Roxstar, whom the Mountain was based on started off as a Thing homage? Rad.

Grimm doesn't throw rocks or manipulate the earth like the Mountain AT does. He's just a rock man with a heart of gold.

Geology jokes never get old.

roughbearmattach · September 2012

Terrax, the former herald of Galactus, might be closer to the Mountain's powers, but Roxstar looks a lot like The Thing.

sidreus · September 2012

Maybe Wiki link shines a bit light to conversation going on here.

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champions_(role-playing_game)

Check the powers section and you will see many familiar hero names. So for me, it is not weird to think our CO characters like some established heroes. Like all superhero MMOs and RPG materials, Champions Online and Champions RPG get their inspiration, design and powers from those well known heroes. Those are superheroic legends which inspired many characters and will continue to do so.

However I am strongly against seeing Hulk, Wolverine, Night Crawler, Iron Man, Green Lantern and thanks to Night Avenger AT, Batman clones in this game or any other online game. CO developers gave us very nice tools to create our own hero so get advantage of that fact create your Metal Machine, which will be Iron Man of Millenium City in your eyes.

At best you will be forced change/delete your character. At worst one of those publishers opens a lawsuit against Champions Online and we will loose this game as well.

sykov · September 2012

Radiant: Jesus

theravenforce · September 2012

I think the Mind AT was a poor attempt at a telepath/mentalist.

The Impulse is well...um..I don't really know..I've never seen a hero with such pathetic forcefields or lack of usefulness. Except perhaps for olden day Invisible Woman who couldnt turn invisible fast enough, or her force fields use to make the annoying sounds >_> basically all round horrific.

So Impulse is just meh...I feel terrible for saying this but, it is most like the Invisible Woman, without the Invisible part or the strong force field part..so just Impulse AT = Visible Woman with pathetic shielding capabilites.

I love the invisible woman but I wouldnt compare her to that AT.

nepht · September 2012

vorshoth wrote: »

Is amazed after a brief scan of this thread that nobody considers the Ever Lovin' Blue Eyed Thing as being whom the Mountain looks like at least.
...Wait. Does that mean Roxstar, whom the Mountain was based on started off as a Thing homage? Rad.

Have to stop you there in a nice way.

When you actually see Roxstar and I mean the proper toon made by Rox he looks nothing like Ben Grimm.

Rox is an golden age type hero that has slightly rock like skin (cape and all ) that can control rocks and mud. Were Ben Grimm is made out of living rock and the only powers Grimm has is super strength.

On another note I like my video games and all of my toons have a video game vibe about them ( yeah I noes CO is a game also

) . Would be nice to see more AT's that are more video game hero based add some variety.

Who doesnt want a cardboard box as a stealth power?

theapygoos · September 2012

shieldtower wrote: »

Here's who the ATs remind me of. In no particular order.
[
Invincible: Robert Downey Jr.

i loled at this.
the fact that he has single handedly taken Iron Man and made it /his/ whole identity to a great many people, only proves that he is the perfect Tony Stark

theapygoos · September 2012

theravenforce wrote: »

I think the Mind AT was a poor attempt at a telepath/mentalist.

The Impulse is well...um..I don't really know..I've never seen a hero with such pathetic forcefields or lack of usefulness. Except perhaps for olden day Invisible Woman who couldnt turn invisible fast enough, or her force fields use to make the annoying sounds >_> basically all round horrific.

So Impulse is just meh...I feel terrible for saying this but, it is most like the Invisible Woman, without the Invisible part or the strong force field part..so just Impulse AT = Visible Woman with pathetic shielding capabilites.

I love the invisible woman but I wouldnt compare her to that AT.

and your passive plea for a review on force falls on deaf ears Raven :P
the way i udnerstand it is that its not getting looked at for awhile

lotar295 · September 2012

shieldtower wrote: »

[*]Invincible: Robert Downey Jr.

This made me lol so much:biggrin:

fantasycharacter · September 2012

chalupaoffury wrote: »

I'm still trying to figure out what darkness would embody. I'm guessing Raven is the closest, from teen titans.

Nightshade, Obsidian, The Shade

Raven is actually an empath

=Famous Superhero Archetypes=

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