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I need help with a costume
stardiver
Posts: 76 Arc User
A long time ago, I tried to remake one of my most favourite characters in Champions, but at the time there just wasn't enough going on in the game for the character to fit. Now there seems to be, as I think all the relevant powers exist. Now I just need to be able to match the idea I have for her in my head to what the editor can do an... Frankly, so far my efforts have been a disaster. I can't seem to get the physique right and the costume details just don't seem to work.
Now, I think a picture is worth a thousand words, and I have a picture of Xanta that I want to share. And it's not a City of Heroes screenshot, as that game was just not able to do what I wanted for the character. Instead, courtesy of Alex Dai, this is what she's looks like in my head:
Xanta
There are a few key problems that I just can't find a workaround for. First and foremost, the costume parts. I'm well aware that this particular sword doesn't exist, but there's one that's good enough, so that's easy. However, I can't find gloves, boots or shoulders that fit the look, which is to say I can't find any that look medieval or fantasy-inspired without being just plain weird and, more than anything else, I can't find such that look BIG. As you can tell, for as big as Xanta is - and she's pretty damn big - her gear is even bigger, which is kind of the point.
More worryingly, though, I can't find the right body shape, as I can't find a way to control her waist. Oh, sure, there's a slider dubbed "waist," but it actually controls the hips. It starts looking really weird when I give Xanta broad shoulders and a broad pelvis, only for a spindly corset abdomen to make her look like she'd snap in half.
Finally, size. I'm shocked and amazed to see the costume editor peak female height at... What, 7.2 feet? That's a little too short. Even City of Heroes peaked at around 8 feet, despite female characters being considerably shorter than males. Is there any way to make her "very big?" In storyline, she's supposed to be between 10 and 15 feet tall and a towering monster, with most normal people barely coming up to her waist. 7'2'' doesn't cut it, since I know people in real life who are that tall.
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Normally, I'd share the character's backstory to provide background into what kind of "look" I'm going for, but Xanta is my one and only character whose story is so tightly related to City of Heroes it just wouldn't make sense out of context. I haven't decided how I want to rectify that, but I CAN offer a basic explanation. I need Xanta to look very big, very heavy-built and very imposing. Though she is kind at heart and good person to boot, the presence I want her to exude is one of a monster. Imposing, intimidating, downright scary, in fact. I want her to look like she could snap people in half like a tooth pick or pull an ocean liner up on shore by its anchor chain. I want her to look like that eight-foot-long steel girder of a sword she carries around doesn't even weigh her down, and like she weighs as much as a steam engine. I want something that looks big and solid and... I really failed to get that across in the editor, and failed spectacularly.
Money is no obstacle here. If I need services or costume pieces I need to pay for, I'll pay for them. That's not a big deal, just so long as I get the right look. So... What must I do?
Now, I think a picture is worth a thousand words, and I have a picture of Xanta that I want to share. And it's not a City of Heroes screenshot, as that game was just not able to do what I wanted for the character. Instead, courtesy of Alex Dai, this is what she's looks like in my head:
Xanta
There are a few key problems that I just can't find a workaround for. First and foremost, the costume parts. I'm well aware that this particular sword doesn't exist, but there's one that's good enough, so that's easy. However, I can't find gloves, boots or shoulders that fit the look, which is to say I can't find any that look medieval or fantasy-inspired without being just plain weird and, more than anything else, I can't find such that look BIG. As you can tell, for as big as Xanta is - and she's pretty damn big - her gear is even bigger, which is kind of the point.
More worryingly, though, I can't find the right body shape, as I can't find a way to control her waist. Oh, sure, there's a slider dubbed "waist," but it actually controls the hips. It starts looking really weird when I give Xanta broad shoulders and a broad pelvis, only for a spindly corset abdomen to make her look like she'd snap in half.
Finally, size. I'm shocked and amazed to see the costume editor peak female height at... What, 7.2 feet? That's a little too short. Even City of Heroes peaked at around 8 feet, despite female characters being considerably shorter than males. Is there any way to make her "very big?" In storyline, she's supposed to be between 10 and 15 feet tall and a towering monster, with most normal people barely coming up to her waist. 7'2'' doesn't cut it, since I know people in real life who are that tall.
---
Normally, I'd share the character's backstory to provide background into what kind of "look" I'm going for, but Xanta is my one and only character whose story is so tightly related to City of Heroes it just wouldn't make sense out of context. I haven't decided how I want to rectify that, but I CAN offer a basic explanation. I need Xanta to look very big, very heavy-built and very imposing. Though she is kind at heart and good person to boot, the presence I want her to exude is one of a monster. Imposing, intimidating, downright scary, in fact. I want her to look like she could snap people in half like a tooth pick or pull an ocean liner up on shore by its anchor chain. I want her to look like that eight-foot-long steel girder of a sword she carries around doesn't even weigh her down, and like she weighs as much as a steam engine. I want something that looks big and solid and... I really failed to get that across in the editor, and failed spectacularly.
Money is no obstacle here. If I need services or costume pieces I need to pay for, I'll pay for them. That's not a big deal, just so long as I get the right look. So... What must I do?
|
Of all the things I've lost,
It think I miss my mind the most.
Of all the things I've lost,
It think I miss my mind the most.
Post edited by stardiver on
0
Comments
On a side note, the enrage power has an advantage that makes you bigger as you stack it. That may not fit your theme and you'd have to keep you stacks of enrage constantly to remain big.
The only way to 'adjust' the waist is unfortunately to adjust the chest and hip width relative to the waist size. As for height, the leg length slider can add a significant amount of height to a character- but the problem is, it's all leg length. Which looks weird past a point.
The only way to be 'bigger' is to use some size-affecting abilities like Enrage(with it's free Growth advantage, you can keep this toggled on 24/7 and at rank 3 it gives you a pretty reasonable size boost) or the Super-Enlarger from the Zstore(though this makes you like 10x taller and does not work in combat, so I'm pretty sure it's not what you're looking for).
If you want to alter her costume, there's some armors and waist/hip area bits that would obscure the thinness of her waist, in theory, making her look bulkier overall. Luckily one thing that's in your favor for her look is the muscle slider, so you're alright on the muscle tone of her texturing overall, but the waist is simply going to be an obstacle to deal with, unfortunately.
Covering her forearms/hands and calves/feet with armored stuff and then pushing the sliders for those areas up a bit can make it look like she has bulkier armor on, where she's armored, though. That's the nice thing about locational sliders like that.
@kelpplankton
Oldschool CoH player, Lifetime CO and STO subscriber, animator and artist.
Art, Animation, and Stuff:
DA Tumblr Vimeo Youtube
As far as the Gear, if you increase the size of the Feet and Hands/Forearms with the Sliders, it will scale up both the Weapon AND the Gauntlets/Boots to the largest sizes (pretty darn huge).
Lastly, did you try the options under both Long and Short Gloves/Boots?
You can get very different looks under each.
Unfortunately, I have yet to figure out how to post screenshots under the new system, as the Attachments key is gone, or I could show you a few that are close. Have you looked at the Knight/Dark Fantasy pieces yet?
Just curious, would this be a Single Blade or Heavy Weapons toon?
I would assume, given the look, Heavy Weapons. If that is the case, you are going to want to spend some SERIOUS time looking into Weapon Unlocks because most of the best Heavy Weapons are ones you have to find/buy. Check the Wiki for specifics and Youtube(for video's of the weapons in action).
And finally, a little combination of Rage and Hope. This item was an old Power Replacement item reward for beating the villein Eclipse. It has since been removed from the game for violating Cryptic/Perfect Worlds' Too Awesome To Live policy, but there is some chatter that it may be coming back some day soon....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlFOledXRwU
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'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
(And that's an entirely separate topic that I need to check and make sure is CLEARLY addressed to incoming COH players in the various welcoming threads. Anyway - )
So I'm unable to get in-game to the costume editor to show you specifics, but I ASSURE YOU, there ARE costume parts in the game that, put together in total, will give a look close to that illustration. It may not be exact. But trust me - the feel WILL get across.
There's an entire "Barbarian" costume set available for purchase for silvers or for free for golds that will help. There are also individual large shoulder pieces and gloves and boots that will give you a look close to what you want there. Specifically, you'll want to look for armor pieces titled something like "Dark Fantasy" or "Shining Knight". Possibly even the more tech-armor stuff would suffice (because it has the right proportions, if not the correct details.
In terms of overall body shape, you should go to teh body proportions sliders page and look at the top right hand corner for the body slider called "Body Mass". More so than anything else, that'll probably help you.
Unfortunately, like in City of Heroes, the more extreme proportion possibilities are limited for females. Which, yes, is ANNOYING because there are specific cases like yours where it is entirely appropriate to make a "body builder" type of body style and the game engine doesn't want to cooperate.
There are two potential solutions in terms of height, though. One is linked to a power. And one is a device that you can buy in the store.
Within the Might and/or Devastator power sets - which you almost certainly will be using - there is a power called "Enrage". One of the advantages you can buy for that is a purely special effects option called Giant Growth which makes you bigger the more stacks of enrage you have on you.
I'm a vet of COH. So I already know where the concept is for your character. She's a troll (from the Hollows etc.) and believe me, the whole "growth when angry" thing is (in my opinion) PERFECT for that!
Best of all, the growth advantage costs you NOTHING. It's ZERO points to buy. It's just a cosmetic thing as far as the game engine concerns. But it LOOKS damn impressive in a fight!
For even more extreme effects in combat, you can couple that with a power from the gadgeteering set that has an advantage that makes YOU get BIGGER and your target get SMALLER. It starts getting pretty outrageous after a while.
The device from the store is called a "Magnifier" and there are two types. One is fairly cheap in terms of points/money. But it's on a limited timer. Good for testing out to see if you like it. The other is a bit pricey, but worth it in my opinion. It is, however purely cosmetic and will de-activate during combat. But it makes you SO big, that you'd probably not want it on during combat anyway. (Issues with indoor areas, camera angles and the like.)
For yuks, attack a few of the misc. objects around Rencen in order to build up stacks of enrage/growth and THEN pop the magnifier! GODZILLA TIME!!!!
EDIT: And wow! I was scooped QUICK on this. Then again I did make a pretty lengthy post. As to all of the above advice from the others? It's all good. I especially like the idea of obscuring the waist with layered costume items.
The barbarian set I mentioned above even has a "crossed leather belts over the chest" option like yours if I recall correctly.
And yes, I'm building Xanta to use Heavy Weapons. I wouldn't worry too much about specific unlocks. I saw all the weapon models listed on the Wiki and the one that looks the closest like what I want is included for free. It's the basic giant broadsword, which is pretty much what I want. That part was actually quite easy, easier than in City of Heroes even. There, the only decent big one was a Buster Sword, which is non-symmetrical.
So, there's nothing I can do about the waist? Well, that's disappointing, and a major letdown for the costume creator. I guess I can't escape the "hourglass" figure for females even in this game, huh? It's shocking to me that men can scale from stick figures to the Stay Puft man to some kind of indecypherable mound of flesh, yet women can only scale from kind of skinny to kind of chunky. Why? How many years must I wait for a game that has a decent variety of female body types that don't adhere to a static ideal of beauty? Sorry... That's a sore spot of mine. I'd honestly just... Forgotten the waist problems I had with Champions. But really - a strong, muscular character just needs to have a sturdy abdomen. That's where some of the body's biggest muscles are and it's what makes the character sturdy and stable...
And I'm afraid covering up the abdomen just isn't an option. "Girl abs" is one of the biggest reasons I made her and that just can't be done. I'd sooner deal with the spindly waist or... I don't know... Not make her, than to cover her up.
Oh, and on posting screenshots - I'd just go with links. Long ago in a distant land, the old City of Heroes boards plain didn't allow image embedding, so I got pretty adept at sharing pics with just direct image links. Simply host the pic on something like PhotoBucket and drop a link. It's easier to see them embedded, but I don't think these forums can do that. I tried am IMG tag but the parser simply ignores it.
Of all the things I've lost,
It think I miss my mind the most.
@kelpplankton
Oldschool CoH player, Lifetime CO and STO subscriber, animator and artist.
Art, Animation, and Stuff:
DA Tumblr Vimeo Youtube
It scales up with stacks of enrage. You can have a maximum of 8 stacks.
Enrage itself has three "Ranks". And each rank will keep 1 stack of enrage on at all times.
In other words, the Rank 3 Enrage power will, when the toggle is activated, generate and then maintain a minimum of 3 stacks of enrage effect. Which - coupled with the giant growth advantage, will maintain your larger size indefinitely at the 3 stack level.
I have a female character with this and even though she is not at the top of the height cap of the costume maker, she is consistently around 8-9 feet tall in-game at rest.
I'm sorry. I know that's frustrating. Try out the various options though before you give up. Something might still "click" for you.
I'm not sure where to get them, what they're called, or whether they're gloves or bracers.
As far as shoulders go, you can try the "Insignia" shoulder pads. They have the right shape, but not the studs around them.
Without the editor in front of me I can't be of much more use.
I should probably provide a screenshot. However, in my attempt, I pushed the bodymass slider to the max, and the result was... Underwhelming. Xanta didn't end up feeling bulky or heavy, she just looked a little beefy. That's not a bad thing, but the waist thing really throws it off because that's the main tool I used to make her feel big in City of Heroes. If you compromise the "expected" female body shape of "narrow shoulders, narrower waist, big hips," you play on expectations and make a character who looks bigger than she really is. The whole reason I have the big shoulders, gloves and boots is because in CoH, females have tiny hands and feet and that's the only way to make them look bigger
But yes, in my case, I'm making a monster that just happens to be female. I don't want her to be "foxy" or look good in a photo shoot. I want to make her big, heavy and scary because that's what she is. In-storyline, one of her most effective offensive move is actually a powerful angry roar that she uses when coming back from severe injury. You can shoot her, stab her, beat her down, drop a bus on her, and just when it looks like she's down, Xanta will let out a mighty roar and get up. Only then do you realise that you didn't so much hurt her as piss her off. THAT is the crowning moment of awesome I'm after.
If you are, then I can share her full story
In City of Heroes continuity, inter-dimensional travel began as an illegal experiment. A drug called Superadine showed up and took over the city by storm, but it was all being manufactured somewhere in secret. When Back Alley Brawler and his crew finally found the source, it turned out to be a highly-funded research lab which was experimenting on Superadine addicts. It was discovered that, in very rare cases, the drug induced in people visions of other, parallel universes. It is from this research that Portal Corps and the portals to other worlds were developed. And that's all in-game canon, none of it is mine.
In-story, the Trolls are the City's most prolific Superadine users, which addles their brains and mutates their bodies into large, muscular idiots. In my continuity, a scientist from the original researchers into Superadine escaped capture, and continued the experimentation for decades. He would incapacitate and kidnap Torlls to research, looking for that elusive vision of another world. He took Xanta's mother while she was pregnant, with Xanta being born in his labs in captivity. She spent the first 18 years of her life basically in constant torture, as the scientist experimented on her with drugs and machines and was constantly provoking her strength and rage to induce a Superadine reaction. She never did develop visions, but she grew so strong she broke free of her bondage and killed the scientist in blind bloodlust.
Feeling like she was a monster, she spent some time hiding from people and living in squalor, until a kind man fed her and took her into his society of homeless people living in a crime-ridden slum. Having found love and affection and eventually come to terms with what she is, Xanta developed a sense of responsibility for the small community, acting as their protector against the various roving gangs of trolls who tried to kill them for fun. To help her, her surrogate father - an old retired hero with the ability to craft magical armour and weapons - made her a sword which he promised would never break. After years of putting down the Trolls, Xanta eventually caught the eye of Atta, their leader. He stormed the homeless compound with a huge horde of Trolls out for blood. Xanta nearly died and several people lost their lives, but she managed to kill nearly all the Trolls and force Atta himself to flee.
With such a public disaster, police and social workers relocated most of the homeless, and Xanta's adopted father returned to semi-active duty, supplying weapons to various hero organisations. Having developed a violent dislike for bullies, Xanta felt it was her duty to protect not just her friends and family, but all of the city's weak from the wanton violence of the strong. She made it a point to prove those who would abuse power that there is always someone stronger, and to prove to the weak that they don't have to live in fear and keep their heads down. That there would always be someone looking out for them.
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Well, that's her story off memory. I don't have it written down in detail.
Of all the things I've lost,
It think I miss my mind the most.
I still don't have that picture hosting thingy running yet, but try these proportions, I think they come closest to your look. The numbers are the number of blue boxes filled in.
Shoulders-0
Chest Width-8
Chest Depth-12
Arm Length-7
Arms-13
Biceps-12
Breasts-12
Waist-8
Leg Length-11
Legs-7
Upper Leg-10
I know that there are other sliders for other things, but I don't see them affecting the illusion of a more robust waist.
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'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
Yeah those are bracers, try pairing them with the gauntlet short glove.
Brick_McDuggins in game.
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'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
Sample
Of all the things I've lost,
It think I miss my mind the most.
Maybe the Shackle belt.
Unfortunately, most of the shoulder slot items hover on females. If the ornate samurai stuff didn't have that bit sticking out, they'd look good. The Square Plate shoulder doesn't look too bad.
For the feet, I went with Armor Sleek, which unfortunately doesn't have a pattern. The legs is the golden age shorts.
Chest is Crossed Chains and the Curves Open, which is part of one of the purchased sets.
Hopefully the link works:
http://i45.tinypic.com/r0nuxf.jpg
In the game, I'm @Knickknacks.
Xanta
Here's what I did and why I did it:
Gloves: You were right, picking large bracers with a small glove and then just making the hands big did the trick. Awesome! I didn't use the exact bracers offered as, I have to admit, I couldn't find them. I don't know if I didn't look hard enough or if I don't have them unlocked, but what I could was actually quite good. I'm happy with it.
I tried the sliders suggested and it just didn't work. I mean, yes, the sliders did produce a person-looking character, but she was far too narrow and not heavy-set enough. Yes, the arms and legs were beefy, but the body wasn't, and one of my driving goals with this one was to make her look bulky. Think, say, Warhammer 40 000 Space Marine armour or, alternately, StarCraft Terran Marine armour, only that's the character's actual body. I need broad, wide shoulders for that, and a big butt. Speaking of which...
Why can I do nothing to affect my character's butt size? There's a slider shamelessly labelled "breasts" that exists for no reason other than to set my character's cup size, yet no matter what I do I can't give her some junk in the trunk? Why? City of Heroes was bad about "scaling women up," but at least what it did was make them look chubbier, with larger breasts, butts and thighs. Here, no matter what I do, I keep getting something tiny. That the hot pants have "booty" written across the butt cheeks just adds insult to injury.
Ahem...
I tried various shoulder configurations, but it seems the logo shoulders are the only ones I can use. They do well enough, though, especially if I bulk up the shoulders slider, which I did. I know this gives her freakishly huge bowling balls where the shoulder joints should be, but they're hidden by the actual shoulders so that works. I also added various kick-knacks to make use of that famous Champions editor, and I have to say... I think it worked out well. I'm generally not a fan of asymmetrical designs, but Champions allows me to make the major design points symmetrical and then just add details to make it look a bit more organic. Best of both worlds, let's say.
I still don't like the boots I used. They're one of the bigger ones, but I wish they could be bigger, and they're too white. I wish they had a secondary detail. Either that, or I can just alter all the rest of her armour to be all white, if you guys feel that'll fix the difference in shading. And I completely forgot the chest straps
Of all the things I've lost,
It think I miss my mind the most.