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  • haleakalahaleakala Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    stardiver wrote: »
    Yikes! OK, that's quite a downside. Chuck that one, then. Thank for the warning so I didn't have to waste a power pick and then waste money to correct it.

    Do you mean Bountiful Chi Resurgence? I don't mean to correct you - far from it. However, since I don't know the game and its powers very well, I need to make sure we're talking about the same power. I just logged in to make sure the power I'm thinking about is called what I think it is, but it's possible I read wrong and you're referring to something else.

    On Tanking: Does this only apply in a team situation where I won't be the one being attacked? Or is that applicable solo, when I'm all there is to attack? Just curious. Either way, if you say it's more reliable, I'll go with your recommendation and go with Form of the Tempest.

    Incidentally, I love the FOTT acronym. It reminds me of my PAGGG for Power Armour Gatling Gun Guy :)

    For my money the best self heal in CO is still Conviction, especially with Int reducing its cooldown and crit chance/severity often boosting its effect. The SFX is also quite cool. It looks like you are shrugging off chains or something similar.

    FYI, if you buy a power while in the PowerHouse, you can look at its SFX and remove it for free if you have not left the PH.

    He does mean Bountiful Chi Resurgence with Resurgent Reiki. You'll want to look at that one, as its SFX looks like you have a light inside your chest that shines out. I find it appealing on some characters, but not for others.

    FotT is the better choice as long as: (1) you will crit often, which you will; and (2) you have a fast-acting attack (Two Gun Mojo and One Hundred Hands are good examples) to give you more chances to crit. FotM is OK when soling if you are also dodging a lot. It is better when you face more attacks (more chances to dodge). In a team if you are not taking the hits, you won't add stacks.
    _________________________________________________

    I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.

    Willie Nelson


    T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
    Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
  • silver5ksilver5k Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    haleakala wrote: »
    For my money the best self heal in CO is still Conviction, especially with Int reducing its cooldown and crit chance/severity often boosting its effect. The SFX is also quite cool. It looks like you are shrugging off chains or something similar.

    Meh. I know there's this age old debate of BCR+RR versus Conviction, but IMO, BCR+RR is much less "maintenance heavy" and more "fire and forget" - I'd think it's better for beginners and makes Lightning Reflexes builds much harder to wear down with lots of little attacks.. And yes, it's Bountiful Chi Resurgence. Sorry. :(
    FYI, if you buy a power while in the PowerHouse, you can look at its SFX and remove it for free if you have not left the PH.

    And PH includes the battle station, where you can test your build against holographic enemies, that will behave just like live enemies. You can even set it to different team sizes.

    FotT is the better choice as long as: (1) you will crit often, which you will; and (2) you have a fast-acting attack (Two Gun Mojo and One Hundred Hands are good examples) to give you more chances to crit. FotM is OK when soling if you are also dodging a lot. It is better when you face more attacks (more chances to dodge). In a team if you are not taking the hits, you won't add stacks.

    Also, when you're fighting one enemy (supervillains), the attacks will come in much slower than if you're critting all the time.
  • stardiverstardiver Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Thank you for the explanation. I generally don't find myself fighting many enemies at once very often, I don't know why that is, so I'll stick with the ones that let me handle bigger threats more easily. After my experiences with Nighthawk, I'm scared :)

    Bountiful Chi Resurgeance does indeed sound like what I want to have, and you guys have convinced me that Form of the Tempest is the way to go. As soon as I can balance the books, that's what I'll go with. Thank you.

    I guess now all that's left is to worry about gear, but then I'm not sure I want to worry about gear yet. Maybe when I'm higher in level. It depends. For now, that's a solid enough build to go on and solid enough for me to experiment with. Thank you kindly :)

    *edit*
    Actually, one last question - why did we discard Laser Sword attacks from Power Armour? I remember it being something about synergy, but looking at the powers now... I don't see what this might be about.
    |

    Of all the things I've lost,
    It think I miss my mind the most.
  • tomquantumtomquantum Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Since you went with a defensive passive you could do laser sword instead of single blades. It synergizes slightly less well than single blade because it attacks slower.

    It's doable though, I have a Form of the Tempest laser swordsman.
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    stardiver wrote: »
    *edit*
    Actually, one last question - why did we discard Laser Sword attacks from Power Armour? I remember it being something about synergy, but looking at the powers now... I don't see what this might be about.

    It was discarded when you were planning to use Str as a Primary SS since they don't deal Physical damage, however now that you've moved to Dex, and have scrapped Str from your build they are a possibility again. But, keep in mind they are a rather low damage power set, Also very energy hungry...

    Nothing is stopping you from switching to energy swords though... they only have one appearance though and might not fit your concept... (despite the tailor offering sword customization when selecting them, this doesn't actually affect Laser Swords, the hilt can't even be recolored)

    I've got a Laser Sword build of my own, and it's decent... but slow going... I spend more time using my EB than actually doing damage due to the energy costs of the skills.
    ^-^ cute, cuddly, @Pandabutt ^-^
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  • stardiverstardiver Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    raighn wrote: »
    It was discarded when you were planning to use Str as a Primary SS since they don't deal Physical damage, however now that you've moved to Dex, and have scrapped Str from your build they are a possibility again. But, keep in mind they are a rather low damage power set, Also very energy hungry...

    Ah! I asked because someone in the Power House handed me a lot of money with which I wanted to do a bit of a respec, just so I could check out the Laser Swords and... I kind of like them. The animations are a bit less "fancy" than I was used to - it's basically hacking with an energy blade - but the blade itself I quite like. I can't choose a different sword, but I CAN recolour the blade, which I did. It now matches the rest of the glows.

    You're right that the build is energy-hungry, as I was seeing my energy go down a lot more, but meh. I'll use my energy builder more. I like the power :) The biggest thing is I just didn't like the Katana. I'd grin and bear it, but ever since I redid Sam's basic concept and added a whole manner of ridiculously-eccentric quirks to him, an energy blade has been paramount. So long as it works, that's fine.

    OK, so remind me - Strength is bad for Energy Blades because it only increases physical damage? So what should I increase if I want more energy damage? Intelligence? Ego? I can't seem to find the answer on the Wiki. It just says it increases "melee" damage, which I thought swords are.

    Either way, I went with Super Dexterity, then super Intelligence and super Vitality/Contitution/whateverthatscalled. Strength isn't an issue, but I thought it still boosted melee damage up to some degree.
    |

    Of all the things I've lost,
    It think I miss my mind the most.
  • haleakalahaleakala Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    stardiver wrote: »
    OK, so remind me - Strength is bad for Energy Blades because it only increases physical damage? So what should I increase if I want more energy damage? Intelligence? Ego? I can't seem to find the answer on the Wiki. It just says it increases "melee" damage, which I thought swords are.

    Either way, I went with Super Dexterity, then super Intelligence and super Vitality/Contitution/whateverthatscalled. Strength isn't an issue, but I thought it still boosted melee damage up to some degree.

    STR does boost melee damage, including Laser Sword. At level 40 with no damage bonuses at all, rank 1 Laser Sword's first tick does ~285. Adding 70 STR to get to a 20% melee bonus, the same attack does ~340, 55 more, or about 20% with room for rounding error.

    However, as this is an additive bonus, two caveats: (1) if you go beyond 70 STR the melee bonus will continue to increase, but diminishing returns will set in, so you will get less benefit for your investment; and (2) if you then added in the "prior to diminishing returns" super stat bonuses of 30, 15 and 15 percent, assuming you were in in Hybrid role, the damage would be 285 + 30% (85) + 15% (42.5) + 15% (42.5) + 20% (55) for a total of 510. At this point STR's additive bonus is still adding 55 but it's total contribution is now only (55/510 = ~10.8%).

    If you wanted to add some STR to get that smallish boost, go ahead, but I don't recommend sacrificing other bonuses to get it. Personally, if I was playing that character and wanted a 4th stat to boost, it would be Recovery to get a larger start-of-the-fight energy pool and faster returns on the energy builder.
    _________________________________________________

    I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.

    Willie Nelson


    T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
    Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
  • stardiverstardiver Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Thank you for the explanation. I don't know what that'll do to my build (yet, I'll figure it our when I log in and look at my powers), but at least now I know WHY it will do something to my build :) Thanks for clarifying that.

    To be honest, at this point I know just enough about the Champions build system to know roughly what I'm doing, but not enough to plan ahead. For now, I'd rather play it by ear and see what I seem to be missing as I play, then build off of that. Frankly, I don't seem to be missing energy too badly at the moment, at least not that I can determine, so I'll hold off on more energy, and I can always ret-con if I get it wrong.

    I'll keep an eye on my strength, though, definitely. It's something I want at least somewhat high (higher than my Presence, at any rate), but I won't over-focusing on it. No need to lift city buses over my head or anything. We'll see how it goes.

    I'm just glad Laser Sword attacks could work. Again, they're just more conceptually appropriate, and the weapon bugs me considerably less. Still wish they were two-handed, though. Does this game not have a single two-handed melee weapon?
    |

    Of all the things I've lost,
    It think I miss my mind the most.
  • xeirosxeiros Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    stardiver wrote: »
    Thank you for the explanation. I don't know what that'll do to my build (yet, I'll figure it our when I log in and look at my powers), but at least now I know WHY it will do something to my build :) Thanks for clarifying that.

    To be honest, at this point I know just enough about the Champions build system to know roughly what I'm doing, but not enough to plan ahead. For now, I'd rather play it by ear and see what I seem to be missing as I play, then build off of that. Frankly, I don't seem to be missing energy too badly at the moment, at least not that I can determine, so I'll hold off on more energy, and I can always ret-con if I get it wrong.

    I'll keep an eye on my strength, though, definitely. It's something I want at least somewhat high (higher than my Presence, at any rate), but I won't over-focusing on it. No need to lift city buses over my head or anything. We'll see how it goes.

    I'm just glad Laser Sword attacks could work. Again, they're just more conceptually appropriate, and the weapon bugs me considerably less. Still wish they were two-handed, though. Does this game not have a single two-handed melee weapon?

    It has plenty of them. There are a number of models; however, each one may be held differently depending on the actual power in use. In other words the same weapon might be used for a number of different powers. Munitions is a good example of this. If you have choose a particular pistol model in the tailor that model will be used for any pistol power you choose to take.

    For example the Heavy Weapons power-set under the Brick tab has a number of melee attacks that utilize the two-handed grip, but they are nothing like laser sword in appearance or functionality. Look into those if you like slow, self rooting attacks that may knock the enemy in various directions.
  • silvergryphsilvergryph Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Here's my suggested build:
    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name: Samuel Tow

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
    Level 10: Ego (Secondary)
    Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Fist
    Level 6: Martial Training
    Level 9: Coordinated
    Level 12: Academics
    Level 15: Body and Mind
    Level 18: Professional Athlete
    Level 21: Relentless

    Powers:
    Level 1: Gunslinger
    Level 1: Two-Gun Mojo (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 6: Killer Instinct
    Level 8: Form of the Master (Storm's Eye Prana)
    Level 11: Lightning Reflexes (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Eye of the Storm (Rank 2, Blade Beyond the Veil)
    Level 17: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
    Level 20: Dragon's Wrath (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23:
    Level 26: Evasive Maneuvers
    Level 29:
    Level 32: Lock N Load
    Level 35: Masterful Dodge
    Level 38: Lead Tempest (Rank 2, Tread Softly, Challenging Strikes)

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Swinging (Rank 2, Flippin')
    Level 35: Athletics

    Specializations:
    Dexterity: Combat Training (2/3)
    Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
    Dexterity: Evasion (2/2)
    Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
    Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Guardian: Locus (2/2)
    Guardian: Tenacious (2/2)
    Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (1/3)
    Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
    Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
    Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)



    I would run this character in Hybrid role because of the melee/range mix as well as to improve healing from Bountiful Chi Resurgence. I would dedicate either one piece of secondary gear or a single primary gear modification slot to Strength. Otherwise, divide all your gear between all 3 Super Stats. Start out with an even spread and keep an eye on which stats need more focus as you advance. I would also use mods for Dodge Chance, Critical Strike, and Cooldown Reduction.

    Some notes on reasoning:
    The key to survivability in CO is layering defenses. This build uses Dodge and Avoidance to reduce incoming damage, specializations to increase Defense from gear to give you Damage Resistance for damage that gets through, and continuous healing to take care of what's left.

    Form of the Master stacks Focus when you dodge. Storm's Eye Prana advantage reduces the cooldown on heals which when combined with your Intelligence and cooldown reduction from gear will allow you to double or even triple stack Bountiful Chi Resurgence. Resurgent Reiki advantage adds additional ticks of healing when you dodge. Which will be very very often. It's almost like having Regeneration on top of your other Passive.

    Eye of the Storm deals less damage as you maintain it but gives you an increasing damage reduction as you maintain it also. The Blade Beyond the Veil advantage is a separate damage proc that helps make up for the reducing damage. Instead of "turtling" behind a block when you nead to heal, you will hide behind a deadly wall of blades. And as minions rush in and die they will trigger The Ruh of Battle specialization for a few extra points of healing. Click Masterful Dodge first and you can go from almost dead to full hit points and full energy by the end of the maintain.

    Energy maintenance is a non-issue for this build. You should almost never need to touch your Energy Builder.

    You will also find this build to be no slouch in the damage department.

    I left two slots and 5 advantage points available. Use them for another attack or add a block, or whatever feels thematic. But, with Eye of the Storm a block should be unnecessary. Except maybe Parry with Elusive Monk just for the advantage.

    I tried to stay way from building for Crits as much as possible, but its really unavoidable with a Dex build. I also used Lightning Reflexes as requested, but it would be just as survivable and much deadlier if you switched to a R3 Quarry instead. If you do that then use one of the extra slots for Parry with Elusive Monk advantage. You probably won't ever have to actually use it, but the advantage will increase your dodge whenever you make a melee attack. Including Eye of the Storm. :wink:
  • superalfgornsuperalfgorn Posts: 558 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I read the beginning of the discussion, but there are too many long posts... so if something has already been said I'm sorry.

    I suggest the following concept. NOTE (edit): I read now the post above :) the two build are similar... the one above uses a dual blades power and more pistols... mine more melee. Do not know which fits better or plays better.

    Super Stats: DEX (for the dodge spec and criticals) INT (for energy and quarry) END (for overall energy, could be CON for HP). NO need for STR (you hit the optimal return at 70 STR, easily doable from gear), or EGO (same as for STR, additionally Quarry grants you EGO).

    Passive: Quarry. Boosts all your damage. Grants you additional Dodge. Takes care of EGO for ranged damage and of INT for energy management.

    Form: Form of the Tempest (no doubts triggers off criticals)

    Powers: a mix of single Blade (there's a Katana) and Pistols as x the concept.

    Block: Parry with advantage to boost dodge chance.

    Main Attack (melee): Dragon's Bite. After you build stacks of Focus it returns energy.
    Main Attack (Pistols): Holdout Shot (heal over time) and Bullet Beatdown (AoE dmg and dodge buff).

    Several defensive powers to give the mobility/dodge feel: Masterful Dodge, Breakaway Shot and Evasive Manouvers

    Specialization: DEX for dodging, Warden for defense (key choice: the best defense), Vindicator for sinergy with Warden (Aggressive stance)


    PowerHouse http://powerhouse.nullware.com/

    Link to this build: http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=5&n=Samuel%20Tow&d=1248RbiHULB6731C000C303CB0464038405A601AD008G006604CE03CG05CH008I058F003UbJ438V0CAT

    Name: Samuel Tow

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
    Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
    Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Specialist
    Level 6: Covert Ops Training
    Level 9: Field Ops Training
    Level 12: Coordinated
    Level 15: Investigator
    Level 18: Accurate
    Level 21: Body and Mind

    Powers:
    Level 1: Reaper's Touch
    Level 1: Scything Blade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 6: Parry (The Elusive Monk)
    Level 8: Quarry (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 11: Holdout Shot (Rank 2, Stim Pack)
    Level 14: Form of the Tempest (Rank 2)
    Level 17: Smoke Bomb Lunge
    Level 20: Breakaway Shot
    Level 23: Evasive Maneuvers (Sleight of Mind)
    Level 26: Dragon's Bite (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 29: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
    Level 32: Masterful Dodge
    Level 35: Lead Tempest (Rank 2, Tread Softly)
    Level 38: Lock N Load

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3, Versatility)
    Level 35: Superspeed (Rank 2)

    Specializations:
    Dexterity: Combat Training (2/3)
    Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
    Dexterity: Evasion (2/2)
    Dexterity: Quick Reflexes (3/3)
    Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Warden: Elusive (2/2)
    Warden: Upper Hand (2/3)
    Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
    Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
    Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)
    ______________________________________________________________
    My Characters

  • stardiverstardiver Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    xeiros wrote: »
    For example the Heavy Weapons power-set under the Brick tab has a number of melee attacks that utilize the two-handed grip, but they are nothing like laser sword in appearance or functionality. Look into those if you like slow, self rooting attacks that may knock the enemy in various directions.

    Heavy Weapons are not applicable to Sam, but they are to Xanta (pic courtesy of Alex Dai), whom I shall be remaking at some point. Champions Online actually seems considerably more appropriate to her general body type than City of Heroes, so if large weapons can use a two-handed grip, that'll be fine. About the only thing I dislike about Heavy Weapons is they don't look big or heavy enough :) That's really not relevant, but I also wonder if there isn't some kind of "growth" power I can get for her that I can keep up all the time. That woman is supposed to be 10-15 feet tall.

    As for Sam, I want to note that I swapped entirely to Laser Sword attacks for his melee, and I'm actually quite happy with the result. They ARE much more energy-hungry, but Laser Sword itself deals HIDEOUS damage, much more so than Reaper's Caress, or at least I notice it a lot more. I don't think I'll be taking more than the energy builder, Laser Sword and probably Lightspeed Dash, with the other two of mine probably being Two-Gun Mojo and whatever the AoE pistol attack is called, and that might well be it for attacks. For "other" powers, so far I have Lightning Reflexes, Parry and Bountiful Chi Resurgeance, and will probably be looking into Form of the Tempest. Beyond that, I don't know. Probably get some "energy unlock."

    Speaking of which, how many energy unlocks can I have, and can more than one work at the same time?
    |

    Of all the things I've lost,
    It think I miss my mind the most.
  • superalfgornsuperalfgorn Posts: 558 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    For growing you can get Enrage as a form (like form of the tempest). It has a 0 point advantage to let you grow a little for each stack of enrage. Plus you can use the sliders to start big :)

    As for energy unlocks you can get only one!
    ______________________________________________________________
    My Characters

  • stardiverstardiver Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    For growing you can get Enrage as a form (like form of the tempest). It has a 0 point advantage to let you grow a little for each stack of enrage. Plus you can use the sliders to start big :)

    Yes, but can I start stay big out of combat? And is there some power with which I can grow big, but to a static point, rather than changing size? The reason I ask is I want to see if I can't maintain a constant height. If not, then shape-changing isn't part of Xanta's character, so I'll be making do with the height sliders. How extreme is that? City of Heroes' slider was kind of limited to 4 feet / 8 feet.
    As for energy unlocks you can get only one!

    That's good to hear. It makes my build simpler. I might already have one in mind, but I don't have power names off the top of my head. I'll let you know when I come up with something.
    |

    Of all the things I've lost,
    It think I miss my mind the most.
  • superalfgornsuperalfgorn Posts: 558 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Mmmh no I do not think you have a power that makes you huge at all times. There is a Device on the Zen-Store called super magnifier. But it is active only out of combat. You'll shrink back as soon as you enter combat.

    As for enrage.. I do not know if you stay big as long as you have stacks of enraged or if you keep growing and shrinking as you gain stacks and they fall off.
    ______________________________________________________________
    My Characters

  • stardiverstardiver Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Thank you. I will look for other options, then, or stick to what I did in City of Heroes and just go for max height. At least here I should be able to give Xanta bigger arms :)
    |

    Of all the things I've lost,
    It think I miss my mind the most.
  • haleakalahaleakala Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    stardiver wrote: »
    Thank you. I will look for other options, then, or stick to what I did in City of Heroes and just go for max height. At least here I should be able to give Xanta bigger arms :)

    FYI adding stacks not only grows one, total size is proportional to number of stacks. With a full 8 stacks, the character is ~twice as big as s/he started out to be. This works fine for someone whose concept is get bigger as I fight, not for someone who is just that big.
    _________________________________________________

    I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.

    Willie Nelson


    T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
    Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
  • stardiverstardiver Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    haleakala wrote: »
    FYI adding stacks not only grows one, total size is proportional to number of stacks. With a full 8 stacks, the character is ~twice as big as s/he started out to be. This works fine for someone whose concept is get bigger as I fight, not for someone who is just that big.

    Sadly, that seems to be the case. Ah, well. The Champions character editor seems versatile enough, so I ought to be able to make someone pretty tall regardless. Thanks for clarifying that.
    |

    Of all the things I've lost,
    It think I miss my mind the most.
  • alexdrakoalexdrako Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    stardiver wrote: »
    Sadly, that seems to be the case. Ah, well. The Champions character editor seems versatile enough, so I ought to be able to make someone pretty tall regardless. Thanks for clarifying that.

    Something I have learned is that the Height slider doesnt take into account the leg's lenght, so you may be able to make her quite a bit bigger :) *is also getting used to this, CoH refugee*
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    alexdrako wrote: »
    Something I have learned is that the Height slider doesnt take into account the leg's lenght, so you may be able to make her quite a bit bigger :) *is also getting used to this, CoH refugee*

    Yea, the height values listed on the height slider seem to be based on having all other sliders at 50% so when you start messing with the leg sliders in addition you'll find taller and shorter results than the listed height on the height slider
    ^-^ cute, cuddly, @Pandabutt ^-^
    jniKqKJ.png
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