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Can we help CoX players with proportion templates?
logandarklighter
Posts: 334 Arc User
(This is being cross-posted from the general discussion thread. I'd like to specifically get costuming help here.)
Hey folks?
Is there some way that someone very good at tweaking proportions in the CO editor could do templates based on the basic (non slider tweaked) body types (male/female/huge) from City of Heroes?
I think a lot of players from CoX are put off by the proportions in CO that are given to them as defaults.
I think one of the things that the CO community could help with is provide them with a template to work from that would give them proportions for their character from the start that are as close to COX standards as possible.
Also perhaps look at the basic face sliders from CoX and duplicate those as well if possible? (Especially the female ones).
I remember one of my characters benefited greatly from one of the "kid" templates that were provided by Smackwell.
The great thing is that such templates can be posted links to in one of the welcome threads for CoX players to pick up and add to their screenshot folder. Simple and easy to do.
Hey folks?
Is there some way that someone very good at tweaking proportions in the CO editor could do templates based on the basic (non slider tweaked) body types (male/female/huge) from City of Heroes?
I think a lot of players from CoX are put off by the proportions in CO that are given to them as defaults.
I think one of the things that the CO community could help with is provide them with a template to work from that would give them proportions for their character from the start that are as close to COX standards as possible.
Also perhaps look at the basic face sliders from CoX and duplicate those as well if possible? (Especially the female ones).
I remember one of my characters benefited greatly from one of the "kid" templates that were provided by Smackwell.
The great thing is that such templates can be posted links to in one of the welcome threads for CoX players to pick up and add to their screenshot folder. Simple and easy to do.
Unfortunately, the one detriment to CO's character creation is in the faces. I think there are very few differences in the facial structures overall, with minor tweaks doing a bit here and there. If I'm not mistaken, CoX had a 'pick this face or that face' method, while CO is 'shape this face and put a decal over it'.
As far as the body templates, I'm sure someone here could help you out with that.
Yeah. I think the face structures work differently enough that getting a template going is going to be very difficult.
Hmmm... I wonder if anyone's ever done some pigg-diving in COH and come up with the wire-frame they use for the polygon structure? Might help to see exactly what it is we're looking at in COH without the actual face texture laid over it? Do you think that might help with proportion tweaking of faces in CO?
Thing is - CO can have a LOT of structural differences. So much so that you can easily stray into "uncanny valley" more than you do with COH. It takes some practice to make a good face in CO.
In COH you have to take things all the way out to the extreme ends of the sliders to really get uncanny valley. The degree of change is just not as much. But as you say - you get distinctive faces by choosing an actual texture which reacts to shading and lighting and the sliders.
In short, I agree that it's doubtful the face models can be templated perfectly. But maybe some kind of compromise can be reached.
I have higher expectations in regards to the body sliders. I'm pretty sure those can be templated to a decently near match to the classic COH look.
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As a warning though, I only play female chars, so someone else will have to provide templates for the guys as I have no experience messing with their proportions.
Check out my Champions Online webcomic in progress!
Annoying people since 2009!
@kelpplankton
Oldschool CoH player, Lifetime CO and STO subscriber, animator and artist.
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I'm going to go back over to the COH boards and post a link to this thread to point the COH refugees here and explain a little about how to use the templates.
This gives people options they perhaps don't know they have at the beginning. Good work!
We still need templates specific to the classic COX look though. Hope those come through soon!
Hey, my templates got posted! Neat.
If I had some good reference pictures of the base bodytypes that were available in old CoH, I'd probably be able to whip up some good body bases for that. I'd do the same for faces as well, but the nature of costume files works in such a way that they're sort of hard to separate from the body so yeah.
I'd log in myself, but it would probably take me 3 hours just to patch the game for it to work.
Male-Slim-Front
Male-Slim-Side
Male-Slim-Back
Male-Average-Front
Male-Average-Side
Male-Average-Back
Male-Athletic-Front
Male-Athletic-Side
Male-Athletic-Back
Male-Heavy-Front
Male-Heavy-Side
Male-Heavy-Back
Female-slim-front
Female-slim-side
Female-slim-back
Female-Average-front
Female-Average-Side
Female-Average-Back
Female-Athletic-Front
Female-Athletic-Side
Female-Athletic-Back
Female-Heavy-Front
Female-Heavy-Side
Female-Heavy-Back
Huge-Slim-Front
Huge-slim-side
Huge-slim-back
Huge-average-front
Huge-average-side
Huge-average-back
Huge-athletic-front
Huge-athletic-side
Huge-athletic-back
Huge-heavy-front
Huge-Heavy-side
Huge-heavy-back
Males
Females
Huges
A few comparisons/observations made between CoX and CO characters (as explained from the perspective of CoX):
Yeah - I already expected there to be areas of incompatibility. The internal wireframes and sliders just work too differently in some cases.
But that's a LOT closer than it was!
I'll pass this along.
Petite Female
< . .> YMMV, but I figure more options is better than fewer, and I did say I'd get something up here!
Check out my Champions Online webcomic in progress!
Annoying people since 2009!
Heroic Roleplayer @epelesker | PRIMUS Database Moderator | Brigade Advocate
I know this hasn't been posted in for almost two weeks, but I would love to help with this. I (like to think at least) that I'm good with the face sliders. Unfortunately, I have no real idea what the CoX faces look like. I've been looking for awhile and I'm currently past the point where I can create an account and just look for myself.
If someone could help me with getting screenshots of the faces (like with the body screen shots earlier) I will certainly see what I can do.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Pic
It's quite simple, but since default CO proportions are completely unrealistic, it's worth to remember a few things:
- most realistic setting is minimal or almost minimal leg length, default CO legs are waaay too long. Human leg is never longer than combined length of upper body and usually it's roughly a half of length of the whole body.
- also, most realistic setting is closer to the maximum head size, default CO heads are too small.
Engine has some limitations, so perfectly realistic body isn't possible (can't edit neck length, for example, and no real waist slider), but it's quite capable for creating realistic characters.
My only gripe is with face editor. It's awfully limited. Can't edit jaw width and shape, mouth position, eyes depth, and nose shape (nope, slightly tweaking nose tip isn't editing nose shape).
I'm not asking about Dragon Age or Mass Effect face generation, but we could at least have STO facial editor - it's vastly superior to CO's one.
Formerly @SteelDominator in COH
Proud member of Earthguard SG/Phoenix Phalanx
I'm posting pictures that show the sliders so that way these can be used with body templates. I used the aggressive Eyebrows on the men. I also didn't adjust the head size to any given body shape/size so those will need to be adjusted accordingly. The pictures are on the large size.
Male
Average 1
Average 2
Average 3
Brute
Chiseled
Intellectual
Square
Strong
Thin
Youthful
Female
Average 1
Average 2
Average 3
Average 4
Intellectual
Square
Strong
Thin
Youthful
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I really do think the actual slider picture references are more useful in this case than having a template.
Why?
Because it's damn near impossible to combine all the different body templates and face templates together. The combinations start going exponential very quickly.
Your pictures are very clear and crisp. So someone could take a CoH style body template from earlier in the thread, use that to create the base character, then come here and use your references to recreate the CoH Style face sliders. Voila!
Genius, sir! Well done!
I'll be sure to pass this info along!
Only thing I wanted to add is, I'm a ma'am (or madame). :cool:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
http://sta.sh/02gelxkytrkz
These are my character templates. Not exactly CoH style as I made them for my private use with body proportions as realistic and close to the classical canon, as it is possible with CO engine.
**applause**