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Post-Alert Pvp - Common Powers
secksegai
Posts: 1,354 Arc User
Since I?ve seen a lot of threads complaining about seeing a lot of commonality across player pvp builds I figure?d I?d provide a list and explanation of common powers you can expect to face in the current pvp environment.
Right now, the new equipment and spec trees have really narrowed down viable options for competitive play. If not for all my previous experience pre and post alert, I myself probably would have struggled a lot more to adapt, and even still I took quite a beating to learn to adjust to the new dynamic regardless.
For NTTG carriers, force geyser and hurl are standard, as they are the only two with 100ft range. Geyser costs more but offers more damage and the knock up can be invaluable. Hurl is around half the energy cost, but also offers the option of covering crippling challenge to insure your target is unable to block.
Ascension saw a bit of use pre-alert, but now it?s nearly essential as its available a lot more often. While it does boost damage, its real use is guaranteed flight, boosted healing, and breakfree damage.
Masterful dodge is basically required now, and is what has allowed AOPM centered builds to be so common. Coupled with protector mastery and resurgence, even offensively oriented toons can have solid survivability.
Smoke grenade w/ escape artist is also pretty standard, as the placate will prevent your opponent from targeting you, allowing you to press the attack or evade and regroup as necessary.
Teleport is also nearly essential for its instant speed. The stealth factor is limited considering most competitive players will have enough perception to see through it.
Acrobatics with versatility is often the second travel power of choice. Mobility is key, and acrobatics is one of the best blends around.
Molecular Self Assembly (MSA) is usually the energy unlock of choice, as not only is INT generally a major stat, but it?s the most versatile unlock and can be proc?d by a number of powers.
Conviction or Bountiful Chi Resurgence are typically the two main options for healing. Conviction is more expensive, but has the potential to crit and proc?s MSA quickly. BCR will also proc msa, but the wait is longer. BCR also reduces damage, and is reliant on dodging attacks to get extra healing, but is easier to set and forget and costs less energy wise.
Resurgence as mentioned previously is quite an emergency heal ? it?s not uncommon to get opponents down to a sliver only for them to use a buffed resurgence and be back to full.
Concentration is standard on the majority of ranged builds, not only for its damage buff but it also helps a build open up more tiers early on.
AOPM is a frequently seen passive as nothing else offers so many stat points. Pre-alert it was a rarity in pvp as it offered no inherent mitigation, but now with people seeing cooldowns between masterful dodge in 30 seconds or less, along with the resistances +dodge/avoid provided from gear and spec trees the need for defensive passive mitigation has all but disappeared from pvp. It?s not so much a factor that the def passives have fallen completely behind, but that you need get offensively oriented anywhere you can as typical opponents will be very difficult to defeat.
Now when you consider most of the above is the standard framework for many current pvp builds, it shouldn?t be too surprising that so many players seem to ?copying? each other as there?s only so much room left for alteration. While the above doesn't apply to melee builds, those are a rarity in general, as they're naturally at a disadvantage post-alert.
Right now, the new equipment and spec trees have really narrowed down viable options for competitive play. If not for all my previous experience pre and post alert, I myself probably would have struggled a lot more to adapt, and even still I took quite a beating to learn to adjust to the new dynamic regardless.
For NTTG carriers, force geyser and hurl are standard, as they are the only two with 100ft range. Geyser costs more but offers more damage and the knock up can be invaluable. Hurl is around half the energy cost, but also offers the option of covering crippling challenge to insure your target is unable to block.
Ascension saw a bit of use pre-alert, but now it?s nearly essential as its available a lot more often. While it does boost damage, its real use is guaranteed flight, boosted healing, and breakfree damage.
Masterful dodge is basically required now, and is what has allowed AOPM centered builds to be so common. Coupled with protector mastery and resurgence, even offensively oriented toons can have solid survivability.
Smoke grenade w/ escape artist is also pretty standard, as the placate will prevent your opponent from targeting you, allowing you to press the attack or evade and regroup as necessary.
Teleport is also nearly essential for its instant speed. The stealth factor is limited considering most competitive players will have enough perception to see through it.
Acrobatics with versatility is often the second travel power of choice. Mobility is key, and acrobatics is one of the best blends around.
Molecular Self Assembly (MSA) is usually the energy unlock of choice, as not only is INT generally a major stat, but it?s the most versatile unlock and can be proc?d by a number of powers.
Conviction or Bountiful Chi Resurgence are typically the two main options for healing. Conviction is more expensive, but has the potential to crit and proc?s MSA quickly. BCR will also proc msa, but the wait is longer. BCR also reduces damage, and is reliant on dodging attacks to get extra healing, but is easier to set and forget and costs less energy wise.
Resurgence as mentioned previously is quite an emergency heal ? it?s not uncommon to get opponents down to a sliver only for them to use a buffed resurgence and be back to full.
Concentration is standard on the majority of ranged builds, not only for its damage buff but it also helps a build open up more tiers early on.
AOPM is a frequently seen passive as nothing else offers so many stat points. Pre-alert it was a rarity in pvp as it offered no inherent mitigation, but now with people seeing cooldowns between masterful dodge in 30 seconds or less, along with the resistances +dodge/avoid provided from gear and spec trees the need for defensive passive mitigation has all but disappeared from pvp. It?s not so much a factor that the def passives have fallen completely behind, but that you need get offensively oriented anywhere you can as typical opponents will be very difficult to defeat.
Now when you consider most of the above is the standard framework for many current pvp builds, it shouldn?t be too surprising that so many players seem to ?copying? each other as there?s only so much room left for alteration. While the above doesn't apply to melee builds, those are a rarity in general, as they're naturally at a disadvantage post-alert.
Post edited by secksegai on
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As a suggestion, instead of BCR, I recommend Bionic Shielding, unless ofc you are pushing 200+% dodge constantly. Otherwise, BS is a great heal without a damage reduction.
Also, Primary Super Stat makes or breaks a build. Most PvPers are using either Intelligence or Strength. Both are amazing for PvP. Other super stats kind of fall behind.
Melee is obviously at a disadvantage, so to cover what people are using, it's fairly simple. force Cascade is an AoE attack. Amazing for tagging people in B.A.S.H. and racking up the kill/death ratio. Ebon Ruin is single-target, but applies a heal debuff. Very important in PvP, even if FC does a lot more damage. FC builds should avoid using Actives all-together. Since FC cancels out any currently running active offense/defenses. Defile isn't bad, but without pestilence as a passive it does nothing to debuff healing, however it does hit harder. So does Fireball.
IDK what more I can say without giving every secret away.
Good luck to those newcomers who are whining and making posts about clones, etc. Clearly you are clueless and the PvP community has been laughing at you this whole time, BUT, this post should help. It's quite constructive.
You always have an insult in your comments :biggrin: Stop driving the noobs away, I want fresh meat
I love posts that belittle people
:biggrin:
@Scrizz :biggrin:
You can stop playing the super villain now.
Asking why one does what they do, imo anyway is not a complaint. I have been around since 2009. Longer than many so called know it all ego trippers.
I fully understand the power structure. For me it was about why throw away "your" build to compete in a pretty dead aspect of CO? Hero Games! Seeing the same or like builds all day, for what? That's what i wanted to know. The human part of it.
Is it worth it? Just copy an paste for sake of pvp? Not so much what these powers allow you to do. I know that. Anybody can see that. I hope, anyway. You were very respectful.
And made good points, and i'm sure some people learned a thing or two.
But really for me it's more than just the numbers and powers that i was asking about when i made a post about "Why people make clones".
Makes me laugh though when some people think they know you, yet have no idea!
Have to laugh, and let go.
Thanks for the great post btw.
@becca_black
Sonic Device doesn't crit anymore. /sniffle
I only left it out as its one of those powers that are a matter of pref - especially now that we've got bolas.
I still prefer Miniturization Drive over Sonic Device
And to the rest of you saying I am being mean, or a "villain," well, I thought I was being factual in recognition of what's been posted on the Hero Games forums the last few weeks.
I said "playing" one.
Being one is another person's job entirely.
AT PvP is happenning??
Deeply nice guy, I swear!
Well, I really expected everything to be dead and left away after the 25th of the last month.
I suppose that what seck said can't be classified as a complain because it's most likely true, but unfortunately, hidden mechanics with hidden strengths got buried away with the Alert update, specializations, INT or STR, overboosting the aspects of a "nerfed" AoPM. Might screw around when going back home.
It is the nastiest thing my PVE builds have ever shot at anything! Or rather it has the highest damage spike I've achieved with my builds.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
Are you that Lucy that runs around in Bash?
Otherwise I have no idea who you are. If you're running a "tank", by the description it sounds like a melee, and you'd probably be running enrage, and UR.
Standard doesn't mean it applies to everyone. Standard is as in common place, and all those powers are. I didn't copy my build off a single person, yet it's strangely similar to most of my peers.
Can you think of a better NTTG carrier than hurl or geyser? The only other one that even comes to mind is TK wave which at 50 ft is only worth mentioning because of the equilibrium adjusting advantage. Only reason I see not to choose one of the 3 I just mentioned is theme, as you're choosing intentionally to be weaker.
Most players, specifically the ones that duel around ren cen, aren't particularly impressive, otherwise they'd be competing against what's left of an effectively dead pvp community in the HG.
It's plausible if you build right - Hell got an FG proc on me in UTC and landed a full spike before I got up.
Clever. Try to insult people so they'll try to be "creative" and make an original build... then farm them for kills for one game until they realize they've been fooled and go back to a viable build.
Guess since everyone has been stalemated build-wise, it's time for the metagame to move out of the powerhouse and into the chat box. :rolleyes:
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I have to agee with this, I could not understand Lucy's point that her tank does not even run concentration, which correct me if I am wrong is a toggle buff stacking form for range and I think poison users which grants bonus to damage and energy return. So, it does not have anything to do with tanking except maybe to help hold aggro with damage? And I guess not using it means less damage and less aggro? Kind of confusing there.
Lucy:
It is true there are copycat builds but do not assume everyone with a similar build is a copycat. As seck pointed out sometimes the power choices narrows and funnel everyone towards similar (not necessarily identical builds). There are still some variations in the pick of spike attacks, FC, ER, Defile, SL/CB, TKL etc. Variation between PBR and TKA. Variation between Hurl and FG.
Note: I do not use a range spike build. I am melee.
I spend more time doing daily's and replying in forums than I do pvping
Good. Pve'ers shouldn't be in the hero games anyway. And pvpers shouldn't be playing CO.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
So... this very section shouldn't be EXISTING! Time for you to return to the past and right this... eeeh, wrong.
I never said or assumed that everyone using these powers is a copycat. Besides, I know people who were using these powers before I started seeing so many others doing it. I was simply adding to the part that was mentioned in the original post about why people copy.
Huh what on earth is wrong with unleashed rage?
A high spike attack powered with Enrage stacks and often combined with Imbue, many people wanting to go melee will turn into AoPM Enrage and use this along with Pounce, DU (or Massacre) and eventually another lunge. Compared to your typical ranged spike? Well, melee range of course which means that you need a well placed lunge, however: No charge time which means that one can go to China after the opponent pressed UR he'll eat it no matter what. The set is slightly more tactical than whatever alphabet-souping ranged build you'll ever find due to the fact that you strike every 30s and that most of the time spamming DU won't really cut it.
Seen many people going like "screw this I'm going melee and I'm gonna show you how it's done" just to find out that it's AoPM Enrage and UR instead of anything else you could have expected like Martial Arts/Brick/Bestial passives, moves and combinations. And due to the described mechanics above, it almost stands its ground against the average ranged builds, but amongst melees, it's far more potent than the rest, including the second most potent build which now is Single Blade. (Surprising eh).
Now, the combination above is when standing against people with massive CON and a certain STR specialization aswell as many defensive passive users.
Against the non min-maxed builds, Enrage, Unleashed Rage and Imbue (and yet, you can even remove Imbue) under a defensive passive are way enough to cause devastating damage. Intended of course, but workarounds are limited when facing this, highly possible but limited.
Yes, I consider exploiting any broken power cheating, just like when people were spamming Leaping Uppercut before the knock resistance was fixed.
Isnt that what its about? Seeing who is stronger? Who built a better build?
And before anyone leaps at me - I run a TK blader, I am not an AoPM + imbue + Force cascade clone. (But my crits are way higher)
I agree some moves are cheap (aka smoke bomb, imbue then fc) But NOTHING, not even devices or healing stims, are *cheating* At least imho
But I do hate the runners.....
Yup, I can see it coming, and it doesn't kill me anymore. Nevertheless it's still too powerful. It's not just about better builds. It's about better builds that aren't overpowered, as far as I'm concerned. We need healing because people use cheap tactics like 30k crits while stealthed and debuffing people's healing to like 25% of the maximum.
What kind of credibility can you expect to have if you claim a power is cheating without a shred of information to back that claim?
I rarely see UR because it's got plenty of limitations. An 8 stack enrage imbued UR can destroy plenty when not dodged, but a long CD and problematic positioning keep it from being a major front-runner. Not sure where you get the cheating aspect from unless you deem that simply because its the strongest "ultimate" out of the limited ultimate selection.
Now your just being foolish.... I have yet to see any power do 160,000 damage (10 * 16k - the best players amount of health, as you said)
Ok so. Criticals are cheating, healing is cheating, building stacks and then consuming tho's stacks to do more damage is cheating(Unleashed Rage, among others) Haymaker is cheating, ebon ruin is cheating....imbue is probably cheating to you, ego surge with the adv is cheating to you (since it gives a higher chance of crits)
Wow you know what? I just realized this would take me all day.
Pfft, if you cant stand the heat... well, you get the idea.
@Scrizz :biggrin:
PvE'ers shouldn't play CO either, have you seen a REAL content update in the last year?
CO is for RPers and Costume makers. =P
Or if they reworked it so all it did was guarantee a crit at whatever your crit severity was at the time?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"If you're going to ride my ****... At least pull my hair"
Taking the trash out, one badguy at a time.
"Satisfaction guaranteed or twice your trash back."
You'd see more investment in crit chance =P
Many avenger role builds will disappear forever, AoPM use would be reinforced. Most of people using Imbue are those using INT specs, instead, people will switch to STR specs and use Ego Surge, simple as that.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"If you're going to ride my ****... At least pull my hair"
Taking the trash out, one badguy at a time.
"Satisfaction guaranteed or twice your trash back."
Not really, for all the hours mine have spent in PH, it was more determining stat distro and utility powers.
I don't care about Unleashed Rage or backing up claims to prove myself to others.
I never said any of that is cheating. You're also doing my damage scaling thing backwards. :P I meant health at level 40, not just the maximum. I wasn't talking about pvp with the health thing. And yes, 80k crits are lame
You can scoff all you want to, but don't be surprised when someone calls you out for using lame powers that don't require much skill.
So basically you're telling people to disregard your opinion as you won't or can't even justify your stance.
I don't like having to fight double bubbles and the usual mess in the current dynamic - it doesn't mean I don't understand the logic behind choosing to use said powers, or discount people choosing to use them simply because they are... using them.
I don't use my teddy gun to "prove myself", I do it to teddy people (that and its my cc carrier).
A lot of us don't like the current dynamic of pvp, it doesn't mean we're going to intentionally pick powers we know to be weaker just for the sake of being different. Being different just to be different isn't a good reason, especially if it entails making yourself inherently weaker against your competition.
I don't pick weaker powers for the sake of being different, I pick them because they're fun. Only powers I don't pick are those that are obviously broken. You can do whatever you want, but I don't think it's fun debuffing people with flies just so I can win.
I like Force Cascade a lot even though I don't use it yet, and Unleashed Rage doesn't kill me.
Except those smart things I say go right over your head.