Heavy Weapon Healer

jaazaniah1 · August 2012

I'm interested in trying to make a healer who has a few heavy weapon attacks. Main reason is that i'd like to equip the guy with a staff. Has anyone played around with this sort of build? Any recommendations on what powers, stats and specializations would go well together?

I was thinking either Medical Nanites, Aura of Radiant Protection or Seraph would be the passive. Seraph looks interesting, but I don't know if with Heavy Weapons attacks I'd get much benefit from it.

Thanks!

helbjorn · August 2012

As you've already found, synergies will be your problem. I have an old paladin HW/Celestial build that I made before On Alert that tested very well. I'll have to pull it out and update it to see if it still works.

jaazaniah1 · August 2012

Thanks. I'd much appreciate having a look. My hope is to use this hero in groups when a healer is needed, but much of the time I do solo PvE so need something that can dish out and take some damage as well.

helbjorn wrote: »

As you've already found, synergies will be your problem. I have an old paladin HW/Celestial build that I made before On Alert that tested very well. I'll have to pull it out and update it to see if it still works.

svajda · August 2012

I think it should be rather easy to pull off, I had a build very similair that I retired, a space marine librarian was my idea, but I get bored easy.

Anyhow, there are two ways to make it work the easiest, one would be setting up multiple builds so you can run around beating on stuff when you feel like it, and then hit your healer build when you feel like healing, thats my first suggestion since heavy weapons won't benefit from seraph, which is, IMO the best healing passive.

The second suggestion which is, in the end less effective, would be to pick a passive that you would feel more effective overall, but less specialized, such as Aura of Radiant Protection, that will still give you good damage resist yourself, while in support role still giving a pretty hefty boost to teamates (if they stay close).

Its mostly preference, on what kind of attacks you want, with sentinel aura, the form for healing stays topped off pretty nicely, between that and aura of radiant protection, and something like radiant sigils, in theory in most situations you should be able to run around hitting things as much as you like.

Ultimately, we can probably give you advice better tailored to what your goal is if you give more specifics than that you want to heal and have a staff/heavy weapon.

PS. if you want to talk more about it in game you can message @aoi

jaazaniah1 · August 2012

This is what I've been toying with so far. Questions I have at this point:

Is Dex worth having to try for critical heals and damage, or would something like constitution be more useful, perhaps building up Dex (and critical chance) through Talents and Gear?

Do the Specialization choices seem appropriate?

Would Seraphim be worth having instead of Medical Nanites considering the use of Heavy Weapons?

Is Circle of Arcane power going to be that useful? I imagine that he may have to roam around a bit to heal people, so being tied to a circle might not be the best option. Maybe Ritual of Radiant Summoning w/ Unbound Ritual and just building up some Int and cost discounts/reductions?

Unleashed Rage? I just like it

, but is there something perhaps more helpful?

Any suggestions for how to spend the advantage points better?

Super Stats:
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Grimoire
Level 6: Impresario
Level 9: Lasting Impression
Level 12: Finesse
Level 15: Acrobat
Level 18: Shrug It Off
Level 21: Quick Recovery

Powers:
Level 1: Eldritch Bolts
Level 1: Compassion (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Vengeance (Rank 2, Redemption Denied)
Level 8: Medical Nanites (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Eruption (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Psionic Healing (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Protection Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Brimstone (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Divine Renewal (Rank 2)
Level 26: Annihilate (Rank 2)
Level 29: Circle of Arcane Power
Level 32: Ascension
Level 35: Vala's Light (Rank 2)
Level 38: Unleashed Rage (Rank 2)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Power Flight
Level 35: Athletics

Specializations:
Presence: Repurpose (3/3)
Presence: Selfless Ally (2/2)
Presence: Moment of Glory (3/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Sentry: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Sentry: Precise (2/3)
Sentry: Sentry Aura (3/3)
Sentry: Persevere (2/2)
Sentinel: Caregiver (3/3)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (2/3)
Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
Mastery: Sentry Mastery (1/1)

helbjorn · August 2012

Here's the rework of my pre-On Alert Paladin. It's a dual role toon, with Defiance/Enrage in Hybrid role for soloing and Seraphim/Compassion in Support role for team play.

This is mostly a theorycraft build, with limited PTS testing. It seems to work ok but hasn't been team-tested. I prefer Invulnerability for solo play, but energy was a problem without Defiance. With endgame gear, it should do quite well. Gear for +Crit/Sev, +Def, +Cost/Cooldown Red. Try to work in some additional REC/END.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Paladin

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Presence (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Behemoth
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Impressive Physique
Level 12: Shrug It Off
Level 15: Paramilitary Training
Level 18: Lasting Impression
Level 21: Bodybuilder

Powers:
Level 1: Bludgeon
Level 1: Cleave (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Decimate (Nailed to the Ground)
Level 8: Defiance (Rank 2)
Level 11: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
Level 14: Annihilate (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Unbreakable
Level 23: Seraphim (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Vala's Light (Rank 2, Light Everlasting)
Level 29: Compassion
Level 32: Ascension (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Mindful Reinforcement (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Redemption

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Mach Speed

Specializations:
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Arbiter: Enforcer (3/3)
Arbiter: Ruthless (2/2)
Arbiter: Arbiter Aura (3/3)
Arbiter: Honor (2/2)
Warden: Fortified Gear (2/3)
Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)

svajda · August 2012

For a passive, from a straight healing perspective, seraphim is far superior to medical nanites.
Believe it or not, with Pres primary (the best for healing) and str/con secondary, with compassion you will most likely not ever have energy issues especially in support role, with my current healer, even in tank role, energy from form and overdrive is more then enough.

Also mindful reinforcement with presence is almost always a superior choice to protection field, in other words helbjorn's advice on the build is overall, very solid.

konru2 · August 2012

Actually, it's not looking bad so far. The biggest concern I have is that if you want Vengeance for your level 6 power, you need either Rebuke or Radiance as one of your level 1 powers. But that's easy enough to correct.

Beyond that, to use heavy weapons effectively, some degree of mobility is required. Jet Pack instead of the other flight options is helpful here. Although you can't pre-charge it for quick travel, it has the combat speed of rank 3 flight at rank 1, and gets better as you rank it up. But taking Acrobatics first and Power Flight later might not be a bad idea either.

Circle of Arcane Power only requires 1.5s to set up again if you have to move. But instead of moving a lot to chase down allies, you'll probably be moving a lot to chase down enemies to use the "staff" on. On that topic, a lunge power is going to be really useful to close in on enemies quickly and accurately. Evasive Maneuvers may be just as useful for getting out of trouble quickly. Even with Support role reducing threat, the constant healing of Medical Nanites and Sentinel Aura is pretty good at generating it. Teams without a competent tank are going to be very rough on you.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Heavy Weapon Healer

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
Level 15: Dexterity (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Master
Level 6: Lasting Impression
Level 9: Finesse
Level 12: Impresario
Level 15: Shrug It Off
Level 18: Acrobat
Level 21: Quick Recovery

Powers:
Level 1: Radiance (Convergence)
Level 1: Vengeance (Rank 2, Redemption Denied)
Level 6: Compassion
Level 8: Medical Nanites (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Eruption (Rank 2, Magma Burst)
Level 14: Iniquity (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Protection Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Decimate (Nailed to the Ground)
Level 23: Annihilate (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Evasive Maneuvers (Sleight of Mind)
Level 29: Ritual of Radiant Summoning (Rank 2, Unbound Ritual)
Level 32: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 35: Divine Renewal (Rank 2)
Level 38: Ascension

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Acrobatics
Level 35: Power Flight

Specializations:
Presence: Repurpose (3/3)
Presence: Selfless Ally (2/2)
Presence: Dominion (2/2)
Presence: Moment of Glory (3/3)
Sentinel: Caregiver (3/3)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
Sentry: Fortified Gear (2/3)
Sentry: Twist Fate (2/2)
Sentry: Precise (3/3)
Sentry: Sentry Aura (3/3)
Mastery: Presence Mastery (1/1)

Iniquity may seen an odd choice. But with Support role bonuses, Compassion, and a good set of healing hands in the offense gear slot, you should easily be able to get 2000 healing a pop at a cost of 562 of your own health. (Bug? It's 450 in hybrid role.) Selfless Ally can return 200 of that right back at you, and combined Sentinel Aura and Medical Nanites will take care of the rest. In contrast, doing a full 3.5s charge of Psionic Healing for 6000 healing and a possible crit of 9000 is just overkill when most level 40s without constitution have 4500-5000 HP max. (Hybrid & Damage role heroes should have exactly 5000. Support has a small HP penalty.)

Radiant Summon is my own preference. When not teamed, Sleight of Mind won't place enemies out of combat and reset their HP if there is any kind of summon catch the opponent's attention. Radiant helps out with the healing, too. But any summon could work here. (Summon Nightmare, perhaps?)

jaazaniah1 · August 2012

Many thanks for the suggestions so far! I'll post a slightly updated version later today.

I should also say that I'm using this as a leveling build. I'll play around with Iniquity at lvl 14 and see how it feels. I think I might want Con instead of Dex if I go that route?

I've never tried Seraphim before. If the build was using more in the way of Dimensional-Ego-Magic attacks I can see that it would be most useful, but given the HW attacks would it still be a better option than Medical Nanites?

I can see where Decimate could be handy, so maybe that instead of the Circle. I'll see how energy is doing and if it's not enough maybe I'd go with Molecular Assembly + Eruption instead.

Is there any real difference between Redemption and Divine Renewal? When I look at the wiki they seem identical unless you add in the Advantges?

svajda · August 2012

Seraphim boosts your healing a ton, sentinel spec tree offers great healing, seraphim offers a tiny bit of healing aura as well, also you can get the advantage to make it do that much damage as well instead of rank 3.

Keep in mind if you are using presence mastery (if you are taking healing seriously I would assume so) bigger heals from seraphim means bigger bubbles from healing, with something like arcane vitality, or any area heal, you bubble your whole team pretty easily while throwing out fairly good area healing, with empathic healing you will be having an easy time keeping a tank alive even against something like gravitar.

Since you are using heavy weapon, defiance/enrage would be great power choices and require only advantage points for the healing on enrage to make soloing with an all healing spec tree a breeze.

Alternatively, I use INV/compassion when tanking with my healer/tank character, with sentinel aura healing, and compassion giving energy from it, energy isn't an issue, but with defiance/enrage you would get plenty of energy from getting hit, and from heavy weapon attacks that give enrage, or have knock effect.

With enrage/defiance you won't get that great of healing but with sentinel aura and healing from enrage, you should rarely even have to use mindful reinforcement solo, however with inv/compassion (and compassion is more useful when healing) you can pop mindful reinforcement as much as you like, while holding agro, and still throw out pretty decent heals if neccisary, this is all of course assuming you are interested in dual build.

Or if you wan't a more universal, one passive approach, I would recomend aura of radiant protection, in hybrid role, it offers very good dmg resist, in support, respectable resistance for yourself, and with inertial dampening field you are basicly giving your entire team invulnerability, then with presence mastery, bubbles every time you heal, wich you may rarely have to do with sentinel aura on top of radiant aura and inertial dampening field, its all a matter of how you wan't to approach your combination and your intended end result.
you could go on test shard and try out different combinations to see what approach feels the most fun.

konru2 · August 2012

Realistically speaking. I'm showing rank 1 Seraphim being about 31% healing. (I personally have her use Aura of Ebon Destruction, for reasons that deserve an entirely different post.) So if that is 45% at rank 3, that's roughly 300 extra healing per pop of rank 3 Iniquity, or 550 extra shielding on a protection field or mindful reinforcement.

In contrast, Medical Nanites heals the whole team (in range) for about 325 every 3 seconds, and the owner slightly more.

For focused healing, it does look like Seraphim is better. However, Medical Nanites is hands-free. It will continue to work on your team and yourself while you're attacking or even blocking. Aura of Radiant Protection might be a better choice for the team damage resistance. Frankly, if you're going to be fighting up close and personal with heavy weapons, you risk taking more damage as well. So the resistance can really help you.

Constitution instead of dexterity isn't a bad idea. But it is still something of a trade. Dexterity might not help healing much with my build suggestion. However it is still a big boost to your damage output with critical hits. The extra hit points, especially with Radiant Protection slotted, will help a lot by reducing the risk of accidental death from AoE spam.

It's your choice.

jaazaniah1 · August 2012

I am curious about this. What makes MR superior over PF? They both scale with Pre and get a bonus from Compassion. MR is a bit cheaper to run and is slightly quicker to activate, but PF stops slightly more damage, lasts longer, and returns energy. Does MR possibly get a bonus from Seraphim that PF wouldn't get? I seldom have had MR last through a battle and give a final health boost.

svajda wrote: »

Also mindful reinforcement with presence is almost always a superior choice to protection field, in other words helbjorn's advice on the build is overall, very solid.

konru2 · August 2012

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

I am curious about this. What makes MR superior over PF?

Two things really. If Mr. Chicken Runner the DPS eats a big AoE, Mindful Reinforcement is a lot easier to stick on him before he gets out of range than anything other than Iniquity. And if he gets out of enemy range fast enough, MR can give him a big boost in "confidence" sooner than his own natural healing. For that matter, when the whole team has just eaten a big AoE, MR's 0.67s cast time is just noticeably faster at getting a shield on everyone than Protection Field's 0.83s cast.

Otherwise, it's six of one or half dozen of the other. It may not matter all that much.

My hybrid tank/healer uses Mindful Reinforcement all the time. But that's typically just to get the Damage heroes out of immediate danger before going right back to attempting to pull aggro. As long as I can pull the hate off of the squishies, MR has it's chance to expire and turn into healing. For my full out complete overkill healer, I've switched to using Protection Field. Honestly, that is mostly because my support drones and radiant summon work pretty well at fixing the other squishies before MR has a chance to wear off. The extra 12 seconds of duration on Protection Field makes it better to preemptively use to shield against AoE spam and extra aggro before it actually happens.

jaazaniah1 · August 2012

My current iteration of the project.

I'm probably going to go with a single build running mostly in support. I've never been good at remembering to switch builds

I've never tried Iniquity before, so I'll experiment with that. I think I'll take Con as a super stat to help compensate for the lost HPs.

I hadn't thought about AoRP + IDF + Sentry Aura. I don't think I'm going to go that route on this one, but I have another older one that this would work well on.

I've been trying Seraphim on PTS and it does help with Radiance and Vengeance, and I'm sure it would help boost the general healing, but I'm still leaning a bit toward Medical Nanites. As another poster mentioned, it's a nice easy heal that's always on, helps me, helps others, and I don't have to think about it.

I've never used Circle of Radiant Summoning before. Can the Celestial Ally that shows up be directed to only do healing (a la support drones), or does it have a mind of its own?

I can see the benefit to having Empathic Healing, but I'm feeling rather constrained by other choices. Will Arcane Vitality at R3 be a reasonable substitute?

I'm not 100% decided on the lvl 29 power. Decimate would certainly be useful, (though I haven't missed it a great deal yet) but maybe Molecular Self-Assembly w/ Eruption would be useful for building energy? Am I over looking something else that might be appropriate? Imbue?

Thanks again for all the feedback.

Name: Black Seraph

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Master
Level 6: Shrug It Off
Level 9: Lasting Impression
Level 12: Quick Recovery
Level 15: Acrobat
Level 18: Impresario
Level 21: Finesse

Powers:
Level 1: Radiance
Level 1: Compassion
Level 6: Vengeance (Rank 2, Redemption Denied)
Level 8: Seraphim (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Eruption (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Iniquity (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Protection Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Brimstone (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Redemption (Rank 2)
Level 26: Annihilate (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Decimate
Level 32: Arcane Vitality (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Ritual of Radiant Summoning (Unbound Ritual)
Level 38: Ascension

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Fire Flight
Level 35: Athletics

Specializations:
Presence: Repurpose (3/3)
Presence: Selfless Ally (2/2)
Presence: Moment of Glory (3/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Sentry: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Sentry: Precise (2/3)
Sentry: Sentry Aura (3/3)
Sentry: Persevere (2/2)
Sentinel: Caregiver (3/3)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (2/3)
Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
Mastery: Sentry Mastery (1/1)

doll1989 · August 2012

I have a question, or actually 3 questions.

Some of you placed MSA in your builds, but didn't take INT as SS. I suppose that means getting INT from gear, but how much INT will be enough?

I thought REC as SS without END as SS isn't a good idea, because usually it means that equilibrium will be higher then max energy. Am I wrong and why if I am?

Would taking brimstone with advantage and thermal reverberation and SS END instead of REC be a better idea then MSA and INT as SS or from gear? Will brimstones advantage even trigger thermal reverberation?

jaazaniah1 · August 2012

Here are a couple links I found:
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=126887
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=130741

Since I do have SS Rec, and will gear for some Int, and do have Eruption, MSA should give me some benefit if I find that I need a bit more energy.

At the moment I'm finding that Vengeance w/Redemption Denied followed up by Eruption is a nice combo. Most often the enemy is either stunned for too long, or takes so long to get back up, that I can get off another round of attacks before they can do anything.

doll1989 wrote: »

I have a question, or actually 3 questions.

Some of you placed MSA in your builds, but didn't take INT as SS. I suppose that means getting INT from gear, but how much INT will be enough?

I thought REC as SS without END as SS isn't a good idea, because usually it means that equilibrium will be higher then max energy. Am I wrong and why if I am?

Would taking brimstone with advantage and thermal reverberation and SS END instead of REC be a better idea then MSA and INT as SS or from gear? Will brimstones advantage even trigger thermal reverberation?

konru2 · August 2012

doll1989 wrote: »

I have a question, or actually 3 questions.

Some of you placed MSA in your builds, but didn't take INT as SS. I suppose that means getting INT from gear, but how much INT will be enough?

I thought REC as SS without END as SS isn't a good idea, because usually it means that equilibrium will be higher then max energy. Am I wrong and why if I am?

Would taking brimstone with advantage and thermal reverberation and SS END instead of REC be a better idea then MSA and INT as SS or from gear? Will brimstones advantage even trigger thermal reverberation?

In the specific build I proposed. I am tempted to say the amount of Int that is "enough" is 10. In all honesty, the Recovery stat scales up every source energy out there, all energy unlocks, energy building, blocking, Circle of Arcane Power, taps of Psionic Healing, Form energy when a stack is gained, Defiance energy when a stack is gained, Dark Transfusion, etc. etc. The only exception I can think of is C-Store Energy Surge and Heroic Comeback devices. But that may only be because it's hard to improve on 100% energy instantly. With the current scaling, I would expect MSA to return 30 a tick, with Eruption refreshing MSA's duration faster than it expires. More Int would help. However Compassion scaling to Presence and Recovery is where more of your "free" energy is coming from.

Yes, without endurance, Recovery as a super-stat will eventually cap your equilibrium at your max energy. But now your equilibrium is capped properly. AFAIK, the bugs with "too much" equilibrium have all been squashed. So I don't think you'll have any problems. But if you want, a single endurance enhancement or armoring placed on your gear can do wonders for opening up your available energy.

Thermal Reverberation with the advantaged versions of Eruption and Brimstone does work. Both are capable of applying Clinging Flames, and Brimstone can drop a nice fire patch. Neither is really better than the other, however. So MSA is just a little more convenient. However, I have to admit that the firey heavy weapon concept sounds like a lot of fun.

svajda · August 2012

As far as passive energy unlock goes, for a healer, I almost always use overdrive now, if you do any charged or maintained heals, it triggers nicely, if you do any attacks that are charge or maintain, it triggers nicely, and you only need half a maintain/charge for it to trigger, with MSA you will have to constantly use powers with an actual cooldown, like eruption, or a lunge, unless some of your favorite powers to use have a cooldown, overdrive is more useful, almost all big hitting powers or heals you actually use (ie. aren't one click, or aura etc.) will give you energy.

Heavy Weapon Healer

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