Shadow Strike And ricochet Throw blatently broken

ds9fan81 · August 2012

Have not been around the game much is quite some time, but i dont feel that things are working out right with those new powers

1.) I can reliable one shot any foe ive encounted, over 6000 dmg at lvl 11 with shadow strike. Even the end mission super/whatever mega villains

2.) I can reliably one shot every mob in any quest ive gotten with stealth and full charge ricochet throw. Every mob, each time. full charge, kill all. move to next mob, repeat.

Am I overlooking something in the grand picture to explain this.

Thanks

mijjestic · August 2012

Sounds like gameplay-as-usual.

theapygoos · August 2012

joy, another one of these threads, please go and read all the other threads similar that have full discussions before making a new thread about the same thing. you may present your points and debate them there

crypticbuxom · August 2012

Try these tactics after level 20 in adventure packs and lairs OR try them in alerts without getting ganged up on and murdered by mobs. Then come back and try again.

Also increasing the difficulty would help you realize how not OP this set is.

clockwise · August 2012

The trade-offs necessary to use SS for a massive burst strike are more than equitable. Consider that while you're setting it up, your DPS is zero.

As far as Ricochet, yes, vs. Normal (and world map) mobs anywhere near your level, it wipes out whole groups of them in a single fully charged shot. So does Force Cascade. Hell, even Roomsweeper can do that under the right build. This isn't a shocking and unbalanced addition to the game. It's just a different set of mechanics to allow you to have some variety and fun while achieving more or less the same ends.

ktm1 · August 2012

this power IS SUPPOSED to provide that "alpha strike"of incredible damage OR provide a dps boost through standard play.

quote from night avenger news bulletin, take note of words like huge damage and massive bonus.
To master the Night Avenger, you?ll need to be able to master the Sneak ability. This toggle will put you into stealth automatically when you?re out of combat, and from stealth you?ll be able to strike for huge damage. Using Sneak will make your combats spikier and more about bursts of damage, starting with a charge into the fray ? a moment of confusion as the villain loses sight of you ? a pause ? then bam you?ve caught him by surprise. Some of the Night Avenger?s powers specifically key off of stealth, like the massive bonus damage from Shadow Strike.

i also remember reading a post from a dev stating the same thing... cant remember where though and cant find it. the new passive is an entirely different sort of animal than other passives. you also end up with a lower end all be all damage bonus than other passives so your normal attacks when not stealthed is not quite that powerful. higher SPIKE lower DPS

flyingfinn · August 2012

ds9fan81 wrote: »

Have not been around the game much is quite some time, but i dont feel that things are working out right with those new powers

1.) I can reliable one shot any foe ive encounted, over 6000 dmg at lvl 11 with shadow strike. Even the end mission super/whatever mega villains

2.) I can reliably one shot every mob in any quest ive gotten with stealth and full charge ricochet throw. Every mob, each time. full charge, kill all. move to next mob, repeat.

Am I overlooking something in the grand picture to explain this.

Thanks

I saw ones this. It was on a field with bulls.

ariesmajor · August 2012

so.....wouldn't that scale up to like...40k damage at level 40?

nepht · August 2012

ds9fan81 wrote: »

Have not been around the game much is quite some time, but i dont feel that things are working out right with those new powers

1.) I can reliable one shot any foe ive encounted, over 6000 dmg at lvl 11 with shadow strike. Even the end mission super/whatever mega villains

2.) I can reliably one shot every mob in any quest ive gotten with stealth and full charge ricochet throw. Every mob, each time. full charge, kill all. move to next mob, repeat.

Am I overlooking something in the grand picture to explain this.

Thanks

When Batman bounces his throwey things offa mobs heads they all fall down.

Working as intended I thinks.

haleakala · August 2012

nepht wrote: »

When Batman bounces his throwey things

Worth the price of admission, worth reading the thread. Thanks for starting my day off right, Nepht.

mersenneprime · August 2012

ariesmajor wrote: »

so.....wouldn't that scale up to like...40k damage at level 40?

Seems to be a bit over 20k on a level 40.

somebob · August 2012

ariesmajor wrote: »

so.....wouldn't that scale up to like...40k damage at level 40?

15k I believe.

And at level 30 (and before) I'm finding plenty of mob groups that aren't falling over when I throw a not-Batarang at them, even while stealthed.

pion01 · August 2012

ariesmajor wrote: »

so.....wouldn't that scale up to like...40k damage at level 40?

There's a soft cap to damage where 20k is pushing it for the most uber builds, with the occasional deviate that hits 25k.

Short version, no, and even if it does, it's not alone, but sacrifices too much else to be worth it.

kamenridersasword · August 2012

I find that while the moves are powerful they are also strategic in nature. Shadow Strike is worthless outside of stealth and cant be easily spammed, and ricochet through requires paying attention to enemy formations to get the most out of it. Still fun moves either way

chalupaoffury · August 2012

Yeah, not broken at all. Riccochet actually throws average dps out of stealth, maybe a bit high but nothing too extreme. Shadow Strike does hit like a bag full of hand grenades, but it's so situational. Any boss or mob that does any aoe whatsoever is basically impossible to tag with it, and even stacking stealth appliers it's still not like you can stealth often enough for the big numbers to come out with any frequency.

Personally, I love the new powers. Stealth finally *feels* like an ambush now.

visionstorm01 · August 2012

I've been running a lv 30 ninja themed toon (started at low 20s last week and been working my way up) and while she seems able to one shot most supervillain or lower baddies with her Shadow Strike, as many have already said, it is very situational--in fact I forget I even have it after I use it at the start of a fight cuz its very difficult to use again--and its not like you can't already do similar feats with other powers already. Even if I don't use my Shadow Strike I can always handle enemies with my other powers and take them down almost as fast, stealth or not. Everything in CO is a cake walk with almost anything but the most underpowered and neglected powers or sets (think "munitions"). Plenty of stuff could already one shot hordes of trash mobs before the new boomerangs came into the picture--and better and more efficiently (I have a low lv toon with boomerangs and I wonder at their DPS effectiveness compared to easier to use maintained area attacks, like Epidemic, Lightning Storm, Hurricane or any of the "...Breath" attacks, or charged attacks like Cascade or Gigabolt).

And if I enter an "elite" instance all enemies seem to notice me and prevent me from using Shadow Strike most of the time, unless I spam it reeeaaally fast. If you don't charge it up the within a second an a half of being spotted, your chance to let off that one shotting Shadow Strike is gone--you may let off the attack, but it will not count as a "shadow strike" and hit for crap damage.

All in all, I don't think either of these attacks are more OP than any of the other stuff we already had in game.

cybersoldier1981 · August 2012

My only gripes:

Why won't it work in lairs?

Why can't I use a claw with the Shadow Strike? I'd like to see one...

isometry · August 2012

Game balance as a whole is blatantly broken. Night warrior and the associated powers were made overpowered intentionally, to sell more Night Avenger ATs.

beastmag · August 2012

wait, wha? is this thread trollling me?
If true, welp i guess all the threads about the power being broken are justified then.

agentnx5 · August 2012

pion01 wrote: »

There's a soft cap to damage where 20k is pushing it for the most uber builds, with the occasional deviate that hits 25k.

Short version, no, and even if it does, it's not alone, but sacrifices too much else to be worth it.

Yep, there's always a trade off (until they screw up and raise the level cap that is, which should never happen for obvious reasons like this).

I've seen people that can exceed this but it typically uses a loophole with something like an "imbued" shot from a VB-A1A sniper rifle or Force Cascade (with ample ego), and typically require some debuff applications first (i.e.: Chest Beam & Laser Sword) and a specific set of specializations.

The highest DPS is actually from people who deal sustained damage very very quickly, even if the individual hits are only in the hundreds and thousands.

chalupaoffury wrote: »

Yeah, not broken at all. Riccochet actually throws average dps out of stealth, maybe a bit high but nothing too extreme. Shadow Strike does hit like a bag full of hand grenades, but it's so situational. Any boss or mob that does any aoe whatsoever is basically impossible to tag with it, and even stacking stealth appliers it's still not like you can stealth often enough for the big numbers to come out with any frequency.

Personally, I love the new powers. Stealth finally *feels* like an ambush now.

Actually I had been asking for an ambush power for ages, long with many other people. It's a needed theme in the game and I'm glad it's finally here. It requires a bit of tactical expertise, and that's a good thing.

Let's NOT nerf it just 'cause.

ktm1 wrote: »

this power IS SUPPOSED to provide that "alpha strike"of incredible damage OR provide a dps boost through standard play.

quote from night avenger news bulletin, take note of words like huge damage and massive bonus.
To master the Night Avenger, you?ll need to be able to master the Sneak ability. This toggle will put you into stealth automatically when you?re out of combat, and from stealth you?ll be able to strike for huge damage. Using Sneak will make your combats spikier and more about bursts of damage, starting with a charge into the fray ? a moment of confusion as the villain loses sight of you ? a pause ? then bam you?ve caught him by surprise. Some of the Night Avenger?s powers specifically key off of stealth, like the massive bonus damage from Shadow Strike.

i also remember reading a post from a dev stating the same thing... cant remember where though and cant find it. the new passive is an entirely different sort of animal than other passives. you also end up with a lower end all be all damage bonus than other passives so your normal attacks when not stealthed is not quite that powerful. higher SPIKE lower DPS

Yeah unlike Imbue which was intended to make a Celestial's heals critical and has instead been added into countless alpha-strike based builds (especially in PvP, because it's severity scales with CON and most PvP players use CON), Sneak is actually being used the way it was intended.

kenpojujitsu3 · August 2012

People are still claiming that stacked and setup alpha strikes are overpowered...without accounting for DPS lost during setup time? Some things never change.

Yes, it's ludicrously broken. Setting up alpha strikes should not be allowed...nor stacking powers in any way, shape or form.

towershield · August 2012

kenpojujitsu3 wrote: »

People are still claiming that stacked and setup alpha strikes are overpowered...without accounting for DPS lost during setup time? Some things never change.

Yes, it's ludicrously broken. Setting up alpha strikes should not be allowed...nor stacking powers in any way, shape or form.

*puts the Sonic Device away*

What, I wasn't making Sonic BOOMerangs I swear!

ktm1 · August 2012

shieldtower wrote: »

*puts the Sonic Device away*

What, I wasn't making Sonic BOOMerangs I swear!

nice :biggrin: both the pun, the idea (cause i never rlly though of using sonic device on the boomers)

towershield · August 2012

ktm1 wrote: »

nice :biggrin: both the pun, the idea (cause i never rlly though of using sonic device on the boomers)

Make sure you target the mob that will withstand the sonic boomerang from stealth or there won't be a boom.

sorceror01 · August 2012

shieldtower wrote: »

*puts the Sonic Device away*

What, I wasn't making Sonic BOOMerangs I swear!

Oh, you. :rolleyes:

Shadow Strike And ricochet Throw blatently broken

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