Updates: Currently busy. Thread may not be updated for some time.Responses: I will respond to the latest inquiries here rather than flood the thread with replies.
Date: 2012.08.24Patch Version: FC.30.20120820.4Notes
The purpose of this thread is to give players a general guideline as to what specific attributes do, as well as how they scale, to allow players to better plan their characters. The goal is to provide every player an understanding of how each attribute affects their character, while also providing numbers for players who wish to plan their characters in greater detail.
The majority of the values given are approximations. Base values are ignored and the numbers only include scale factors with attributes. (Until Cryptic releases their actual formulas, use the information given with discretion.)
- Significant Figures: Most tool tips only display up to two significant figures. This causes certain results to appear as step functions as the values increase due to small scale factors.
- Rounding/Truncation: The game rounds many tool tips or truncates the values to display integer values, when in fact the numbers are not integers. This is most easily seen on gear, as attributes from talents are as close to true as can be observed.
- Computation: Many of the statistics in the game's effects are calculated using Cryptic's formulas that are not quite intuitive at first glance. If an attribute scales linearly, it does not necessarily mean that its effect does not have diminishing returns.
There are other factors that affect the results as well, but those are just a few. Most attributes have been constrained while testing. All values are for a level 40 champion.
Thanks to the following players for their assistance:
segma, Kardokis, Kurabian, Pantagruel, serju, Falchoin, Zardbooster
(Please let me know if I missed you.)
Comments
Damage Types:
Physical: Crushing, Piercing, Slashing
Elemental: Cold, Fire, Toxic
Particle: Electric, Particle, Sonic
Paranormal: Dimensional, Ego, Magic
(All values are per point of SS, unless otherwise noted.)
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
thank you radia, after all this time you still posted it :cool:
sorry for all the nagging again :redface:
love you
My build directory (work in progress)
Guide list
Freeform Builds
In loving memory of AngelofCaine.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
| ME | A "Guide" Book" | | I, have a "DREAM! | ( Member since Feb 2008 ) ... ?
[SIGPIC]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/AngelOfCaine/STILLS/Misc/CO-Sig_01e.png[/SIGPIC]
Thanks a ton for all this great info! I've saved eeevery chart onto my computer for future reference. XD Should be of great use!
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
Thanks to Seraph for this handy guide.
@CowofCaos
Also a little disbelieving on how much Intelligence and Endurance scale with Overdrive. The calculation means 220 in the stat would come out to about 6.5 energy every three seconds, which doesn't sound quite right. XD
Still absolutely loving the thread. :P I've been going on a total calculation spree because of it!
EDIT: Unless the formula changes at level 40, Presence's Force Of Will specialization gives 0.05/0.1 per Secondary Superstat, not 0.5/1.0.
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
Think of it this way: Most of the values are represented by a skew line, if you wanted to see the plot points then follow the skew line and min/max your way to them. (e.g.)
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
(such as granted from "Super Stats", "Offense", and "Active Offenses"?)
| ME | A "Guide" Book" | | I, have a "DREAM! | ( Member since Feb 2008 ) ... ?
[SIGPIC]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/AngelOfCaine/STILLS/Misc/CO-Sig_01e.png[/SIGPIC]
Yes there is DR for +All Damage as well as +Resistance to All damage
But you will always do/mitigate more damage but the result will be a misplaced effort...(Meaning that the 150 extra w/e you just added would have been better added to XXX)
All and all once you reach +100% resistance/damage you have reached the highpoint in mitigation/damage so the ADs/AOs are used mainly for their added effects...or to give you more of a mitigation that you lack..
A good example for mitigation is Defiance v Invulnerability. Sure people say that Defiance takes spikes better but in reality the amount of damage needed to make defiance 'better' than invul surpasses almost everything PvE so the only real point in defiance is the energy gain..even then you still have to stack con/rec to raise it..
Anyway to sum up everything,
Yes...but don't worry about it in the long run just play the way you want to so you don't end up like marebear!
I wasn't seeing much difference in dmg., but now that i know i was capping at +100 (instead of +134), now i know why :rolleyes:
I'm considering boosting Offense to 200 (which will raise the +ADB to 100), and dropping 2 AO's.
Now i have the info. to work with
Thanks,
'Caine
| ME | A "Guide" Book" | | I, have a "DREAM! | ( Member since Feb 2008 ) ... ?
[SIGPIC]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/AngelOfCaine/STILLS/Misc/CO-Sig_01e.png[/SIGPIC]
1) I'm trying to min-max the total superstats bonus damage.
Eg. If you already have 400 primary superstats, is it better to have another primary stats mods or secondary stats mods based on superstats bonus damage alone (ignoring other benefits of stats).
Can you share the excel file (or google doc) so I can look at numerical values?
2) From my visual inspection of the graph, I think the optimal number of primary stats mods to secondary stats mods for silver champion recognition gear (6 mods in total) are as follow:
Hybrids/Tank: 2 mods each super stats
Damage/Support: 4 mods for primary super stats, 1 mods for each secondary super stats
Reason: Hybrids (and to a lesser extent tank) benefit more from secondary stats than damage/support role.
I would like to know what is the number required for constitution to get 19% damage resistance per stack and is it possible to get 20%?
Thanks
Can't answer the post before the one I'm quoting, and I can't give an exact number on when you hit 19% per stack, but I currently have 20% per stack at 511 Constitution. I have seen Ayonachan say that you get to the 20% point at 490 Constitution.
For the 19% stack... I have 19% at 398 Constitution, and 18% at 371. So the changing point is somewhere in that range.
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
This thread/info is so amazing. I can't even fathom the amount of work it took to test, collate, assemble, and then post all this info.
So full of win!
Thank you!!!
:biggrin:
When XP earnings during a Double-XP Weekend still feel like I'm underperforming,
there's something terribly wrong with the reward system...
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Original Join Date: Feb 2010.
Awesome thread btw.
You can find this out easily by multiplying the scaling stat by 0.1, then subtracting the number in the tooltip from what your calc gives you.
My 40s: Munitions, Electricity, TK Blades, Gadgeteering DPS
Other toons: Fire, Heavy Weapons Tank, Dual Blades, Fightning Claws, AoRP Support, Bestial Supernatural, Archery,
TK Ranged, Infernal Tank, Ice DPS, Laser Sword, Heavy Weapons DPS
Firstly, I ran some stats to determine just how much mitigation Invulnerability gives you. It isn't much. By 600SS, you're at roughly -150. By 700SS you are at -160. It suffers horrible diminishing returns with the critical point near 180SS, -80, before the returns start to throttle.
Following Assumptions Made:
The critical threshold is ~1400 damage, or when Invulnerability's mitigation approaches ~10% of damage taken.
Past this point, Defiance begins to see improving returns over Invulnerability. This stretches to ~100 difference by 2500 damage, ~200 by 4000 damage, up to ~345 by 6000 damage.
Rounding up average estimate places Invulnerability taking ~100hp/1000dmg after the 2000 damage mark until another critical point at ~7500, when Invulnerability's mitigation reaches .02 of damage taken. By an 8000 damage spike, Invulnerability is suffering ~500 more damage than it's counterpart. Beyond here, we are at the point where Invulnerability's mitigation is near statistically insignificant and the difference becomes a static 23 point gulf in R' value. For reference: At 10k, Invulnerability is eating ~635 more damage than it's counterpart.
[Inertial Dampening Field]
IDF scales with Superstats, peaking at ~120 reaching the assumptions above (up to 128 at 700 SS. The returns see a hard throttle near 110, reached at ~400 SS).
Overall, IDF heavily favors Defiance if for no other reason than minimal impact on energy building. Function-wise, it raises the floor of the critical threshold to ~1700 much in Invulnerability's favor.
IDF can significantly mitigate the low-scale damage that seems to be the bane of Defiance builds. IDF ontop of Invulnerability...You may as well just not play the game. Seriously. With a measly 20hp/3sec regen, it will take the powerhouse 5-man hardmode roughly half an hour to kill you depending on how many critical hits bleed through.
[Also Consider: Aura of Radiant Protection ]
AoRP trades Invulnerability's mitigation for a far more significant resistance scaling, reaching 80 by 600SS and also extends a base 13% to the rest of the party in Hybrid (scales to what looks like +10%/100Pre). Moreon, it doesn't have a visible effect unless you take the 0-cost advantage.
...This is deceptive, though.
The graph for R places a critical point near 150R (roughly 60% mitigation). Value is significantly lost below that point and will decrease above that point as it approaches infinity.
Average builds hovering around 200 defense will hover around 40R (just under 30% mitigation). If you can't make a serious dent in that 110-point gap, then you aren't going to make a serious dent in the survival of your party. This is only really something that works well if you can push Pre to roughly 200. The values virtually reverse in support role, netting the easy 60R to close the gap to full 1/2 damage for the party.
AoRP is amazing if you run Pre. Stick to Invuln/Defiance if you don't.
Intelligence:
Recharge time = normal recharge time / (1+ %R)
Power cost = normal power cost / (1+ %R)
Where %R is read as the cumulative % value. Those formulas still hold accurate from some rudimentary testing, but verification is always welcome.
Example:
Intelligence tooltip reads +35% recharge. Specialization bonus gives you +21% recharge to active offense/defense cooldown. This gives you a .56 value to %R.
Result:
90 = 90/(1.56) = ~58 second recharge on said active offense/defense. A 250 investment into SS along with 3 points into an appropriate specialization can knock 30 seconds off.
Compare with cooldown of 10 seconds, which is only reduced to 8 with 250 intelligence.
Also note that the power cost scaling is equally deceptive. As opposed to, say, ego or strength or presence, intelligence isn't a stat that sees powerful returns from 'dipping'. If you aren't stacking this stat, don't bother with it.
That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
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Depends directly on the rank of the passive and how high your superstats are total.
Rank 1
000 || 29% 15% 8.8% 0% 0
175 || 41% 26% 15% 18% 13
309 || 50% 36% 19% 32% 18
353 || 53% 39% 21% 37% 20
446 || 60% 45% 24% 47% 23
492 || 63% 48% 25% 51% 24
536 || 66% 51% 27% 56% 25
580 || 69% 54% 28% 60% 26
831 || 86% 71% 37% 87% 30
Rank 2
000 || 35% 18% 10% 0% 0
175 || 49% 32% 18% 22% 14
309 || 60% 43% 23% 39% 20
353 || 64% 46% 25% 44% 22
446 || 72% 54% 29% 56% 25
492 || 75% 58% 31% 62% 26
536 || 79% 61% 32% 67% 27
580 || 82% 65% 34% 73% 28
831 || 103% 85% 44% 104% 32
Rank 3
000 || 42% 21% 13% 0% 0
175 || 59% 38% 21% 26% 16
309 || 72% 51% 28% 46% 23
353 || 77% 55% 30% 53% 24
446 || 86% 65% 34% 67% 27
492 || 90% 69% 37% 74% 28
536 || 95% 73% 39% 80% 29
580 || 99% 78% 41% 87% 30
831 ||123% 102% 53% 125% 34
The stuff in orange is the total of all three of your superstats.
The stuff in red is how much flat damage reduction you receive.
It's looking like the only real reason to use unstoppable is the knock resist and and the energy return. Oh well. The energy return is pretty nice.
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Unstoppable isn't for taking damage, it's for dealing it. It's meant to mitigate harassment from trash and keep you from getting knocked away from your target. It is a very aggressive passive.
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