BCR vs. Conviction

Comments

• angelofcaine Posts: 9 Arc User

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  wtbcreativity wrote: »

  ...The major issue I have with BCR is that, according to the wiki, it can't crit and it applies a damage debuff.
  Is there some particularly compelling reason for choosing it over Conviction?...

  Resurgent Reiki (2 Advantage Points):

  • You gain additional ticks of healing whenever your dodge an attack while Bountiful Chi Resurgence is active (This effect can only occur once every 0.5 seconds)

  Is your build a "dodge" build?
  If so, take BCR+RR.
  If not, take Conviction.

  __________________________________________________O.P.T.I.O.N.S.
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  Shadow_Kitty wrote:

  Were there any specific reason for that personal attack other than that your opinion differs from mine?

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• agentnx5 Posts: 2,026 Arc User

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  I've read your entire post, of course, and it basically comes down to just this: BCR /w RR for dodge-based defense, conviction for non-dodge based.
  
  Even with the nerf ('cause if you recall the BCR /w RR was nigh untouchable when it used to trigger on EVERY dodge, no manner how minor the damage), resurgent reiki is still very powerful.
  
  If you're planning on having the Breastplate of Agility with a Gambler's Gem core as your primary defense, and masterful dodge as your primary defense. BCR with RR is going to be wonderful.
  
  If you're going to have INT as a stat and great cooldown reduction gear, then you'll benefit a lot from conviction. Without sufficient cooldown reduction you'll be frustrated waiting or the cooldown to finish so you can use it again to survive.
  
  So in short it depends on your gear and your build. I use both on different characters.
  
  The reason I especially like these heals is that they automatically heal you, without having to switch targeting to yourself.

  Do you have several level 40s?
  Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
  Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
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• wtbcreativity Posts: 43 Arc User

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  angelofcaine wrote: »

  Is your build a "dodge" build?
  If so, take BCR+RR.
  If not, take Conviction.

  
  How refreshingly simple. [EDIT: That was not sarcasm, by the way. I elaborate further in my response to agentnx5.]
  

  agentnx5 wrote: »

  If you're planning on having the Breastplate of Agility with a Gambler's Gem core as your primary defense, and masterful dodge as your primary defense. BCR with RR is going to be wonderful.
  
  If you're going to have INT as a stat and great cooldown reduction gear, then you'll benefit a lot from conviction. Without sufficient cooldown reduction you'll be frustrated waiting or the cooldown to finish so you can use it again to survive.

  
  The first part was a little over my head. I assume that what you're referring to has something to do with the Modification system, of which I know nothing except that it replaced crafting (and I'm kind of sad because of it).
  
  As for Active Defenses, aside from Masterful Dodge, only Resurgence comes close to being thematically-correct and it scales with Con which is not a Superstat for me; I'll stick with Masterful Dodge for that reason, but I don't really see much support for Dodge and Avoidance in the specialization trees - which are also new to me - that I've chosen. I'll admit that, with all the changes that have happened since I quit, I'm operating on a fundamental lack of knowledge regarding the game as it stands now. However, it seems like I'd be going out of my way to acquire Dodge/Avoidance when, between the Warden and Vindicator trees [EDIT: even Force of Will in the Ego tree contributes some Defense], I'll have a reasonable Defense stat to rely on. As an added bonus, The Best Defense also looks much too good to pass up. I could change my mind on this, however: I don't know where diminishing returns start kicking in for Defense, Dodge, or Avoidance, or whether or not the Defense I end up having will be sufficient by itself.
  
  The Int/CD-reduction method you describe seems much easier for me to follow. I already have Aura of Primal Majesty to give it a slight boost even before taking gear into account and even more so once I do, especially since I'm finding CD reduction on all my Utility gear. The cooldown reductions seem more broadly useful, even though I wouldn't consider six seconds to be particularly long. It seems that I'm choosing Conviction then, unless something happens towards max-level that changes my mind.
  
  
  There is another question I had though. Regarding Rain of Steel's Grinning Ghost advantage, I find the explanation to be so poorly worded that I can't even tell if it's worth taking or not. It reads:
  

  Grinning Ghost wrote:

  ... Every attack has a chance to grant you a single instance of a Focus buff if you are not already affected by it or if you are affected by a Martial Arts Form.

  
  I cannot tell if it has one single condition - I can neither have a stack of Focus NOR can I be in a Martial Arts Form (Form of the Tempest, in this case) - in which case it's useless because I'm always going to have Form of the Tempest active. However, it might also have two conditions, of which only one needs to be met - it triggers if I don't already have a stack of Focus OR it triggers regardless so long as I'm in a Martial Arts Form, in which case it has some value for keeping Focus at 8 stacks. For whatever reason, it's just not "clicking" for me and neither is the wiki being particularly helpful in this regard.

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• secksegai Posts: 1,354 Arc User

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  You're lacking an energy unlock - you'll really want one of those - Tempest alone won't cover your energy needs and having to resort to the EB kills dps.

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• wtbcreativity Posts: 43 Arc User

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  True, but there are only two Energy Unlocks that work with this build: Molecular Self-Assembly and Ionic Reverberation. There's no question about which skill to drop (I don't think Storm's Harvest is strictly necessary once I have Dragon's Wrath), but the problem is that I don't think either one works particularly well.
  
  For Molecular Self-Assembly, I have three skills with cooldowns short enough that they can be used reliably to trigger it: Thunderbolt Lunge (3s), Conviction (6s), and Thunderstrike (10s). I don't really see the first two lending themselves well to being spammed for that purpose; but possibly a tapped Thunderstrike whenever it comes off cooldown would work, if the duration of the Energy-over-time buff is longer than 10 seconds. It does get the damage bonus from Ego and the cost reduction from its specialization tree.
  
  Ionic Reverberation does not work much better: a fully charged Thunderstrike guarantees multiple applications of Negative Ions (even though I only get one pulse of 1/5 the normal Energy return for an interaction that is not a consume), but the only Electric power I have that can consume Negative Ions is Sparkstorm, which is itself a maintain-turned-toggle that is still likely to consume more energy (15 to activate, then 12/0.5 sec) than it returns. It then also knocks targets back, which puts most anything without Knock resistance or immunity out of range of all of my melee attacks. Also, I am less effective on single targets and the knockback will likely scatter whatever it is I'm fighting unless I have perfect positioning every time I use it and that is extremely wishful thinking.
  
  While I have Recovery as a secondary Superstat, neither Energy Unlock uses Dexterity or Ego as the other governing stat with which to scale (Molecular Self-Assembly and Ionic Reverberation use Intelligence and Endurance, respectively). A difficult problem to solve, but if I had to choose one, it would be Molecular Self-Assembly. It is very out-of-theme, but I suppose I have to make the sacrifice to make the build sustainable.

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• monaahiru Posts: 3,088 Arc User

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  I'll take both.

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• s3rju Posts: 268 Arc User

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  PowerHouse (Link to this build)
  
  Name: Disciple of Storms
  
  Archetype: Freeform
  
  Super Stats:
  Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
  Level 10: Ego (Secondary)
  Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)
  
  Talents:
  Level 1: The Disciple
  Level 6: Shooter
  Level 9: Wordly
  Level 12: Impresario
  Level 15: Coordinated
  Level 18: Academics
  Level 21: Negotiator
  
  Powers:
  Level 1: Rain of Steel (Grinning Ghost)
  Level 1: Blade Tempest (Rank 2, Crashing Crescendo)
  Level 6: Inexorable Tides
  Level 8: Unstoppable (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 11: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
  Level 14: Form of the Tempest
  Level 17: Dragon's Wrath (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 20: Thunderstrike (Rank 2, Ionic Compression)
  Level 23: Thunderbolt Lunge
  Level 26: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 29: Molecular Self-Assembly
  Level 32: Masterful Dodge
  Level 35: Eye of the Storm (Rank 2, Blade Beyond the Veil)
  Level 38: Electric Sheath (Rank 2, Matter ? Energy Union)
  
  Travel Powers:
  Level 6: Teleportation
  Level 35:
  
  Specializations:
  Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
  Dexterity: Brush It Off (2/2)
  Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
  Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
  Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
  Warden: Slaughter (2/3)
  Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
  Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
  Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
  Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
  Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (3/3)
  Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
  Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)
  
  get your str to 70 and stack your int as high as you can, the energy return from unstoppable scale off knocks and REC, just keep spamming tides if you need energy while your conviction and bcr+md are on cooldowns.
  enjoy.

  ---

  My build directory (work in progress)
  Guide list
  Freeform Builds
  
  In loving memory of AngelofCaine.

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• beldin Posts: 1,708 Arc User

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  For what exactly do you need EGO as SS on a pure Melee build ?

  
  

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• haleakala Posts: 449 Arc User

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  wtbcreativity wrote: »

  The first part was a little over my head. I assume that what you're referring to has something to do with the Modification system, of which I know nothing except that it replaced crafting (and I'm kind of sad because of it).

  
  It refers to both gear and mods. The Breastplate of Agility is a level 40 primary defense item obtained with Silver Champions Recognition from the vendor in Ren Center. It adds Avoidance, which is the part of Dodge and has spaces for three mods. The gambler's Lucky Gem is indeed a mod, and if slotted in a defense primary would add Dodge. Absent any other means to gain dodge and avoidance, expect ~38% dodge chance and over 50% avoidance by donning these items.

  _________________________________________________
  
  I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
  
  Willie Nelson
  
  T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
  Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008

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• wtbcreativity Posts: 43 Arc User

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  beldin wrote: »

  For what exactly do you need EGO as SS on a pure Melee build ?

  
  It's not a pure melee build.
  

  wtbcreativity wrote: »

  Level 20: Thunderstrike (Rank 2, Ionic Compression)
  Level 26: Chain Lightning (Rank 2, Lightning Helix)
  Level 29: Sparkstorm (Rank 2, Electric Personality)
  
  Mastery: Vindicator Mastery (1/1)

  
  Perhaps it's not the most min-max choice, but at least I get some mileage out of Ego's specialization tree - crit is damage-type agnostic, after all; further, I get some Defense out of Ego's tree which will pump The Best Defense. [EDIT: However, I don't know how well Force of Will scales, so I don't know how much Defense I'll ultimately end up with or if it would be better to use a perk that scales with Off/Def on gear beyond Fortified Gear and Modified Gear, both of which I already plan on taking]. Of the three masteries I then get to choose from, Vindicator Mastery looked the most intriguing and synergistic. While my Str hopefully won't be so low (AoPM plus talents, not including anything else I might add) that I won't get any meaningful benefit out of it, it makes Ego offer something in the way of melee damage on top of the bonus I get for it being a superstat. It also gives my Electric powers some added power - and scales the knock on Sparkstorm when I want to use it for that purpose - because I wanted them to be effective in addition to being thematic. If nothing else, they add some ranged capability that I wouldn't ordinarily have.
  
  [EDIT: These are the reasons I chose to make Ego my primary Superstat in favor of Dex, which had been my first choice. I largely get the same benefits (crit chance and crit severity) out of either, but Ego works better as the primary and I still get crit from Dex since it's a secondary. In addition, the Energy cost reduction from Insight looks like it will be noticeable: right now, it grants ~25% reduction on ranged powers with 3 ranks but I am past the soft cap (~42% damage/~21% healing from Ego as a Superstat) so I don't know how well it will do later on. Granted, I'm not sure on the numbers so I could be very wrong, but it seems conceptually sound to me.]
  

  haleakala wrote: »

  It refers to both gear and mods. The Breastplate of Agility is a level 40 primary defense item obtained with Silver Champions Recognition from the vendor in Ren Center. It adds Avoidance, which is the part of Dodge and has spaces for three mods. The gambler's Lucky Gem is indeed a mod, and if slotted in a defense primary would add Dodge. Absent any other means to gain dodge and avoidance, expect ~38% dodge chance and over 50% avoidance by donning these items.

  
  Thank you for clarifying. That might change things, but I'm still not sure how everything's going to fall into place at max level. For the moment, I am actually sticking with BCR because it heals for more at my level (67~70 x8 = 536~560 vs. ~260) and I'll either retcon into Conviction later or keep BCR if I pick up that equipment.

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• xamikaze01 Posts: 37 Arc User

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  wtbcreativity wrote: »

  It's not a pure melee build.
  
  
  
  Perhaps it's not the most min-max choice, but at least I get some mileage out of Ego's specialization tree - crit is damage-type agnostic, after all; further, I get some Defense out of Ego's tree which will pump The Best Defense. [EDIT: However, I don't know how well Force of Will scales, so I don't know how much Defense I'll ultimately end up with or if it would be better to use a perk that scales with Off/Def on gear beyond Fortified Gear and Modified Gear, both of which I already plan on taking]. Of the three masteries I then get to choose from, Vindicator Mastery looked the most intriguing and synergistic. While my Str isn't going to be so low (AoPM plus talents, not including anything else I might add) that I won't get any meaningful benefit out of it, it makes Ego offer something in the way of melee damage on top of the bonus I get for it being a superstat. It also gives my Electric powers some added power - and scales the knock on Sparkstorm when I want to use it for that purpose - because I wanted them to be more than just for flavor or theme.
  
  [EDIT: These are the reasons I chose to make Ego my primary Superstat in favor of Dex, which had been my first choice. I largely get the same benefits (crit chance and crit severity) out of either, but Ego works better as the primary and I still get crit from Dex since it's a secondary. Granted, I'm not sure on the numbers so I could be very wrong, but it seems conceptually sound to me.]
  
  
  
  Thank you for clarifying. That might change things, but I'm still not sure how everything's going to fall into place at max level. For the moment, I am actually sticking with BCR because it heals for more at my level (67~70 x8 = 536~560 vs. ~260) and I'll either retcon into Conviction later or keep BCR if I pick up that equipment.

  
  Actualy you won't get much benefit from Ego Main SS on your build. With Aura of primal Majesty you already get to the soft cap easely wich is 70 for 20% dmg bonus and by taking Ego you are actualy going to loose melee and even ranged damage because Form of the Tempest scale exclusively now on Dex only. Also Dex Specialisation Mastery offers a bonus to avoidance and an extra 10% critical severity wich stacks above any other critical severity specilisations.
  
  So in my oppinion you would be much better with Dex if you go for dodge and critical damage.

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• beldin Posts: 1,708 Arc User

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  wtbcreativity wrote: »

  It's not a pure melee build.
  
  Perhaps it's not the most min-max choice, but at least I get some mileage out of Ego's specialization tree -

  
  I meant more s3rju's build. Ok after a third look i found thunderstrike, but to was a SS
  only for that, and it isn't even EGO primary what could make at leas sense to get higher
  Crit and Defense.
  
  Also .. EGO just for the little damage boost isn't worth it, its just worth it on a ranged build
  when you use Concentration, so you get more of the stacks.
  
  I would simply go DEX / CON / REC for hybrid builds.

  
  

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• secksegai Posts: 1,354 Arc User

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  If you're running both melee/ranged attacks - ego as a primary isn't generally worthwhile unless you hardly touch your melee side, but then why bother having melee if that's the case.
  
  Dex covers the crit sev even better, and is a stat you'll have to invest in anyway.
  
  
  I use conviction for msa builds since its procs the unlock, while BCR is something I resort to when energy is sparse as convic is still relatively expensive.

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• haleakala Posts: 449 Arc User

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  I carry both Conviction R3 and BCR R2/Reiki on a couple of characters. Then again, I have quite a few powers with no advantage points spent on them so I can afford it. I use Conviction when I am in a hurry in normal play and don't want the debuff. I use BCR when facing moderately heavy aggro and supplement it with Conviction if needed. BCR/Reiki also synergizes well with Masterful Dodge to restore low health.

  _________________________________________________
  
  I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
  
  Willie Nelson
  
  T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
  Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008

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• lucyinspacewithdiamonds Posts: 1,594 Arc User

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  I always use both at all times on my builds that use them

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