Critical stats with Ego instead of Dex.

williamkony · August 2012

About how high have you Ego characters managed to get your critical chance and severity without Dexterity as a secondary Superstat or "offstat focus"? Are the Critical Chance bonuses from Recognition Gear and Mods, as well as Specializations, enough to get your chance and severity up high enough to be relatively reliable? What exactly do your critical stats end up sitting at?

As a secondary batch of questions, do the melee Ego moves truly count as melee, for the purpose of Form calculation? Specifically, would Ego Weaponry and Telekinetic Eruption benefit more from Form of the Tempest than from Concentration, given that the relative stats (Dex or Ego) for each are equal? I'm fairly sure it'd receive more benefit from Form of the Tempest, but I'd just like to make sure, as the game has some confusing exceptions scattered about.
Additionally, I am aware that fully charging Force Eruption will grant a stack of Concentration. Does the same hold true for Telekinetic Eruption?

l1ghtstar · August 2012

Hmm, I understand you were asking crit chance without Dex, but I can't resist the urge to show off Gem Star's crit chance;
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/sstats.jpg/

That's at standby, and once I get the 5 stacks of Ego Leech, it'll jump to 66.1 Crit chance. Im using Ego Primary SS and Mental Disciple.

Speaking of Mental Disciple, for TK toons, I feel that it's the best option. stacking crit chance for sustainable crits is better than anything else imo =p. TK Assualt & TK Lance coupled with the previous and all the other specializations means you'll almost always, always crit.

raighn · August 2012

williamkony wrote: »

About how high have you Ego characters managed to get your critical chance and severity without Dexterity as a secondary Superstat or "offstat focus"? Are the Critical Chance bonuses from Recognition Gear and Mods, as well as Specializations, enough to get your chance and severity up high enough to be relatively reliable? What exactly do your critical stats end up sitting at?

As a secondary batch of questions, do the melee Ego moves truly count as melee, for the purpose of Form calculation? Specifically, would Ego Weaponry and Telekinetic Eruption benefit more from Form of the Tempest than from Concentration, given that the relative stats (Dex or Ego) for each are equal? I'm fairly sure it'd receive more benefit from Form of the Tempest, but I'd just like to make sure, as the game has some confusing exceptions scattered about.
Additionally, I am aware that fully charging Force Eruption will grant a stack of Concentration. Does the same hold true for Telekinetic Eruption?

First: Ego no longer grants Crit Chance or Crit Severity, Ego is now a ranged damage stat equivalent to Strength. Before the stat changes I had Crit Chance and Severity on Ego characters without Dex at about 25% Chance 170%+ Severity, and that was at lvl 30 with under leveled gear.

Now, I can't seem to build up high Severity at all any more, but I can get Crit Chance with Dex up to near guaranteed per hit.

As for Melee TK skills, yes, they do truly count as melee for the purpose of form calculations. The only calculation that does not count them as melee is Strength stacking, well it does count them but to a lesser extent than other melee abilities as the skills themselves scale explicitly with Ego.

TK Eruption is considered a ranged skill for the purpose of Form calculations I believe. As concentration procs of full charge/maintain of any ranged ability it should proc off TK Eruption.

williamkony · August 2012

Heh, problem with Mental Discipline is that isn't not quite that effective unless you rank it up, which I won't be able to do.

Do you use the "Secondary SSs boost Critical Chance" specialization in the Ego tree? How much does that claim to add?

haleakala · August 2012

williamkony wrote: »

Heh, problem with Mental Discipline is that isn't not quite that effective unless you rank it up, which I won't be able to do.

Do you use the "Secondary SSs boost Critical Chance" specialization in the Ego tree? How much does that claim to add?

With 250 Ego I got 24.8% at max ranks, though the tooltip says 25%. With 226 Ego I got ~24%.

Taking that Follow Through talent and using Vindicator for 15% and another spec tree for an additional ten means you can net very close to 100% severity. Using the Heroic Gloves of Precision, a rank 4 Gambler's and a purple L39 Secondary offense with crit chance, I got 29% crit chance with Dex = 10. Added another 4.3% for a total of 33.9% chance with 2 talent points into Sixth Sense (from Ego Spec Tree). That's with Secondary SS's of 208 and 131, easily obtainable as I haven't even assigned talents yet.

Edit: sorry for the initial bad numbers, I forgot I had AoPM and a +20 Dex Secondary Utility slotted. >.>

beldin · August 2012

Thats what my Munitions char has, only DEX comes from the Acute Belt as secondary
and 2 points from Jack of all Trades :

http://beldin.be.funpic.de/CO/EGO-Crit.jpg

I use also Heroic Gloves of Precision with R5 Gamblers Lucky.

williamkony · August 2012

Thanks for the responses so far! Hm... I believe I should be able to hit about 220 or so in each secondary stat. That would hopefully give a decent boost via Sixth Sense. But, if I were to stick with Dexterity, I would get to about 45% critical rate and 114% severity. I'm not sure it's worth the loss. $:\$

Gar, here are the details of what I'm trying to figure out.

I've got two builds, but can only use one of them. One uses Dexterity, Constitution, Presence, Form of the Tempest, Dragon's Claws, Eye of the Storm, and Pulse Beam Rifle.

The other uses Ego, Constitution, Presence, Concentration, Ego Weaponry, Telekinetic Eruption, and Telekinetic Assault.

Now, the first build, I've already done. It works great, and the critical stats are as I stated above: 45-someodd % critical rate, and 114-someodd % critical severity.

The second one, I'll be going into blind. I haven't done it before, and don't know what the stats would end up as. The Ego would give a straight-up buff to those Telekinesis attacks, but I don't know that it would be enough to overcome the loss of critical stats. In addition, my melee damage would suffer due to Concentration of Form of the Tempest, though my ranged would benefit, obviously. Problem is, I don't know that I'll be able to maintain Concentration stacks as easily if I'm playing melee-style. I don't intend to fully charge Telekinetic Eruption all that often, due to the high energy cost and the fact that I generally don't want to fling enemies away from me.

But... I feel that going Ego, and the second build in general, would make for much better synergy between all of my power selections.

I might just end up "combining" the two, and taking the Telekinesis-based powers while sticking with the stats and form that I'm already using.

beldin · August 2012

williamkony wrote: »

Thanks for the responses so far! Hm... I believe I should be able to hit about 220 or so in each secondary stat. That would hopefully give a decent boost via Sixth Sense. But, if I were to stick with Dexterity, I would get to about 45% critical rate and 114% severity. I'm not sure it's worth the loss. $:\$

I had the same problem, and for that created that little Excel Sheet some days ago :
http://beldin.be.funpic.de/CO/CO_Damage.xls
That also helped me to see if it was better to but 3 points into the crit-chance or in severty
in the EGO tree. More severity was better.

If you use melee also, i would simply go DEX and Form of the Tempest. Stacks are much easier
to build up and maintain with that. Ok .. with the TK build you can just use Eruption to build and
maintain stacks without enemies.

Ahh .. and btw. for a TK Build there is still MD as multiplier buff that works on ranged and melee equal.
However you miss the energy return then from the other forms.

williamkony · August 2012

beldin wrote: »

I had the same problem, and for that created that little Excel Sheet some days ago :
http://beldin.be.funpic.de/CO/CO_Damage.xls
That also helped me to see if it was better to but 3 points into the crit-chance or in severty
in the EGO tree. More severity was better.

If you use melee also, i would simply go DEX and Form of the Tempest. Stacks are much easier
to build up and maintain with that. Ok .. with the TK build you can just use Eruption to build and
maintain stacks without enemies.

Ahh .. and btw. for a TK Build there is still MD as multiplier buff that works on ranged and melee equal.
However you miss the energy return then from the other forms.

Telekinetic Eruption is pretty high-cost, too, though. XD However, being able to build up before a battle is definitely a plus that I hadn't considered. Form of the Tempest, I have to find a bunch of chairs and trash cans to wail on if I want to get the boost before starting a fight.

Mental Discipline really needs Advantage Points put into it to function well, though.

And isn't the damage boost just one stack, that doesn't change? So, at rank 3, just adds 18% damage at all times, doesn't stack up to 8 for total boosts of 100%+. Rank 1 would have hardly any effect, at 12% damage boost and a total of 5% critical boost when at full Ego Leech.

beldin · August 2012

williamkony wrote: »

Telekinetic Eruption is pretty high-cost, too, though. XD However, being able to build up before a battle is definitely a plus that I hadn't considered. Form of the Tempest, I have to find a bunch of chairs and trash cans to wail on if I want to get the boost before starting a fight.

Mental Discipline really needs Advantage Points put into it to function well, though. And isn't the damage boost just one stack, that doesn't change? So, at rank 3, just adds 18% damage at all times, doesn't stack up to 8 for total boosts of 100%+. Rank 1 would have hardly any effect, at 12% damage boost and a total of 5% critical boost when at full Ego Leech.

Secondary superstat REC helps with TK, with that the TK Energy Unlock and Concentration
i can spam Eruption nearly endess

The difference is that MD is a multiplicate Buff, that adds the % to your total damage, and not
like all other buff only add to the base damage of the power. Aspect of Infernal worked also
like that before the changed the forms , and damage was better than with Conc or Form of
the Tempest, and it pushed ranged and melee the same.

But energy wise the other forms are better.

And btw. i mostly also bring other Forms to R3, especially with Form of the Tempest you
build stacks much faster then. With Concentration sadly not, it seems only to give you
3 stacks to start with :redface:

williamkony · August 2012

beldin wrote: »

Secondary superstat REC helps with TK, with that the TK Energy Unlock and Concentration
i can spam Eruption nearly endess

The difference is that MD is a multiplicate Buff, that adds the % to your total damage, and not
like all other buff only add to the base damage of the power. Aspect of Infernal worked also
like that before the changed the forms , and damage was better than with Conc or Form of
the Tempest, and it pushed ranged and melee the same.

But energy wise the other forms are better.

And btw. i mostly also bring other Forms to R3, especially with Form of the Tempest you
build stacks much faster then. With Concentration sadly not, it seems only to give you
3 stacks to start with :redface:

Hm... I'll need to test Mental Discipline out a bit, then, see which one gives more damage. That would be wonderful to not have to worry about Concentration stacks. But, I don't think there are any Advantage points I can spare towards it, sadly. XD Thanks for the info!

raighn · August 2012

I use MD on my TK character, combining both Melee and Ranged abilities equally on her, from my experiance, I've seen my damage increasing per stack of Ego Leech while MD is active. So, while it may not specify that the damage buff stacks, it does appear to do so, atleast to some extent. Additionally, the lack of energy return isn't as big of a deal as one might think when using a TK build. Each stack of Ego Leech reduces the cost of your mentalist abilities, when combined with Ego Reverb and TK Lance w/adv you can maintain high energy very efficiently.

magentagem · August 2012

may I ask for more info?
1. You've mentioned attacks, but didn't mention role. Are you going for straight up dps glass cannon numbers, damage/survivability hybrid, healer, tank?
2. Are you taking ego weaponry for self heals or damage?
3. Are you trying to stay in both melee and ranged, or don't matter as long as build is good?

williamkony · August 2012

magentagem wrote: »

may I ask for more info?
1. You've mentioned attacks, but didn't mention role. Are you going for straight up dps glass cannon numbers, damage/survivability hybrid, healer, tank?
2. Are you taking ego weaponry for self heals or damage?
3. Are you trying to stay in both melee and ranged, or don't matter as long as build is good?

Certainly!

1: It's a little odd, actually. The character is based around switching roles for different situations. I use both melee and ranged roles, as well as tank and healer at other times. Generally speaking, the primary focus is on doing one thing well at a time. So, when in melee damage role, the focus is on just dishing out damage in melee, glass cannon style. Same with ranged role.

2: Ego Weaponry is for damage. The extra critical rate from Ego Leech stacks should bring it nice and high, especially alongside Mental Discipline should I choose to take it, and a few Specializations from the Warden tree. I want to be able to use the attack continually, but I don't have a heck of a lot of energy available. So, Breach and Annihilation are out, sadly.

3: As with question 1, the build changes about often. Could be melee one moment, and ranged the next. Doing well in both fields is preferable.

l1ghtstar · August 2012

Seems like you should check out this build: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=148402
That build does everything; hits HARD, heals team, and is a tough cookie ('tanky')
-Hits from TK ASsult are from 1.4k to 2k, TK Lance hits for 9k, and TK Eruption crits as well.
-Heals team quick 700-1k heal via emp healing every.5 secs, and conviction self heals for 4k!! The heals in this build can out heal Warlord's flame attacks, Gravitar's FC spam, and so on.
-With that much healing and with Con, you're super sturdy, which if you watch the videos, helps in solo'n Vikorin the Blind, and other BIG threats on elite.

Going back to your stats...

I've tested some numbers, without & with dex.
Without (Ego Prim, Con + Pre): http://imageshack.us/f/842/screenshot2012081409172.jpg/
With(Ego (Ego Prm, Dex + Pre): http://imageshack.us/f/15/screenshot2012081409250.jpg/

I'll go back to what I said in my earlier post: Crits with 55-56% crit chance and 90ish severity are far better; sustained over random spikes. With the above build, you're hitting hard, and I note that with all the specializations and crit chance, TK ASsault + Lance ALWAYS crit. ALWAYS. Again, since I can't emphasize that enough: SUSTAINS CRITS, HIT HARDER THAN RANDOM SPIKES HERE AND THERE.

Check out the build, especially the videos posted. I feel it might be something you're looking for.

williamkony · August 2012

Ooh, excellent info, thanks! I think I'll be changing to Ego/Dex/Con instead of Ego/Pre/Con... Protection Field will suffer slightly, but everything else should improve.

Thanks for the info!

l1ghtstar · August 2012

forgot to mention a fun fact since on-alert. When running support role, you don't need pre at all, since seraphim (if running seraphim) and your super stats will contribute to bonus healing. All those numbers in my prev post are with the stats in the screenshot posted earlier in the thread. If you're not energy hungry with whatever powers you pick, I highly recommend maxing out your secondaries (due to sixth sense) and your primary (ego).

williamkony · August 2012

Energy is a bit of a toss-up. XD I'm not sure how well it'll do for me. I don't have the power slots or advantage points to add Force Shield with the Force Sheath advantage, so I can't take advantage of the great energy generation on that. What I DO have for energy gain are Ego Reverberation and-... Well, that's it. I'll be focusing my Utility items on Cost Reduction, and I'll get some energy cost discounting from Ego Leech and ID Mastery. Protection Field technically gives energy when you get hit with it, but I'm not sure how reliable that will be.

I've read through as many Telekinesis-related threads as I can, and the factor of energy management seems completely screwy. Some people claim that they do just fine with Ego Reverberation, and others say that they run out of energy even when just using Ego Weaponry. So, I'm not sure how energy will play out with this build.

Critical stats with Ego instead of Dex.

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