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bioshrike
Posts: 5,491 Arc User
One of the things about certain alert scenarios that annoys me is that, conceivably, you should still be able to pull out a victory, even if you fail the initial encounter.
For instance, in Dockside Dustup, what if you could choose to stay and fight the reinforcements if you don't defeat the boss in the initial timeframe? If you do defeat said reinforcements, then you fight the boss again.
In Soul Siphon, what if your team could jump through the worm portal that gets opened, and have to fight some giant worm creature - if you defeat them, then you reverse the effects of the machine.
In 2 minute drills, what if the villain retreated w/ the mayor to city hall, and you had to fight them there?
For recruiting drive, you could track the bus and have to fight to free them people from the villain.
For instance, in Dockside Dustup, what if you could choose to stay and fight the reinforcements if you don't defeat the boss in the initial timeframe? If you do defeat said reinforcements, then you fight the boss again.
In Soul Siphon, what if your team could jump through the worm portal that gets opened, and have to fight some giant worm creature - if you defeat them, then you reverse the effects of the machine.
In 2 minute drills, what if the villain retreated w/ the mayor to city hall, and you had to fight them there?
For recruiting drive, you could track the bus and have to fight to free them people from the villain.
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"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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It's called an EPIC CAR CHASE. Only with travel powers.
Make it happen, devs.
this would be a very nice add on when vehicles come out
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Catch and defeat the villain before they escape, fighting minions and avoiding traps/mines/etc. left in the villain's wake.
Of course for anyone who's not a ranged+mobile attacker, there'd have to be moments along the way when you can catch up with and keep the enemy in place for a bit, but still, the theme could totally work with the right implementation.
*pictures his PA hero pursuing that VIPER bus while blasting away at any mooks*
Formerly known as "@BlackMethos".
But someone at PWE already had that handle, dammit!!!
Oh noes! You failed to beat mean leather-panties!! Time to deal with wave after wave of mobs until the help arrives!!
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[SIGPIC]Too late![/SIGPIC]
I'd play the crap out of a car chase, tho.
RIP Caine
I agree that failure needs to be an option, but when it looks like your characters have been given a stamp saying FAILURE TO YOUR CHOSEN PROFESSION when it clearly looks like they could do something to the goons (the timer seems rather abstract in a lot of these Alerts, when it runs out it's like "wait, the party's over? But I was kinda... busy...")... So, by having the goons get away, it opens way to a new kind of situation, where those who have given up can leave if it's not their picnic (or if they're not useful to it, posessing no car or travel based superpower, which can happen I suppose), and makes it seem less like an enforced failure if they lose, but something which a player can experience, learn from, and be enriched by.
It's like the difference between failing to win because the game says so regardless of your actual actions' worth in context, and failing because you simply were too slow or unlucky or the goons were too well prepared for you to handle.
It's the difference between making it a mere game and making it an immersive scenario to feel involved in.
Even though it's a combat-oriented thing, the sense of thematic 'story', for lack of a better word for the snippets of vague and brief narrative explaining why these things are happening in the Alerts, really should be key.
I'm rambling now I suspect, so this post has reached the stage of finite.
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/signed
Besides it'd be fun.
And chases are cool.
And losing a battle doesn't mean giving up on the war.
Degreees of victory, degrees of defeat. Victory is Analog not Digital. It can be a Pyrrhic victory for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory meanwhile one defeat may not be a final one or as bad as another more severe defeat.
Consider the following hero vs villain scenario and degrees of victory/defeat:
A Villain and their goons is robbing a jewlers, a superhero team confronts them. The following are possible:
The villain and goons are all defeated, all stolen property is recovered, all hostages are rescued and guards survive and the heroes are unhurt.
The Villain escapes but was made to drop the loot, their goons are defeated, hostages saved, one guard was wounded but will live, the heroes are fine.
The Villain escapes with the loot but everything else goes the heroes way.
The villain is caught along with the goons but one of the heroes dies saving the hostages.
The Villain is stopped but not before several of the hostages are killed but the heroes are fine.
The Villain and goons get away but all the hostages and one of the heroes are killed.
The more parameters there are the greater the different forms of victory and defeat and someone can have measures of both, or value some more than others. Some heroes will value the hostages lives more than capturing the villain for example.
And with degrees of victory there can be degree based rewards. The less civilians wounded the more questionite in the box, the less recoveries by the team the more XP for the team at the end, the fewer the number of goons that escape at the end the more Resources the team receives etc.
And then suddenly there are multiple ways to fail. Even a success might be a failure if what you were after was the Questionite but you failed to save the civilians and you may not care about the XP you earned with your victory.
While she has been rescued
what diabolical mastermind
was behind the devious brain-napping of
the Volterrific Dr Cerebellum?
/signed
I agree with this idea and sound so awesome : ) I hope they will listen to this suggestion you made : ) And specially to the chasing the villain in the new vehicle system, that be really super awesome : ) Also about the alerts, I have ideas for the different stages.
List of the Alerts that would have the stages below and examples of what they can have.
Recruitment drive: First stage, if you didn't defeat the villain or save the citizen from being taken by the villain and there henchmen, it's a failure and the rewards become not great. Then 2nd stage, the chase in the vehicles :biggrin: you are fighting to save the citizens and stop the villain. If you didn't stop the villain from getting away and taking the citizen, then it be another failure with the alert ending completely and no rewards. I would enjoy playing that a lot. Even with the nemesis to chase after them too :biggrin:, instead of just seeing you couldn't chase them.
Soul Siphon: First stage, as mention from the original thread poster. If you fail to stop the villain before the citizens souls are taken into the machine. A dimensional portal opens and the villain enters it to find out what it would give them, maybe to be imbue with more power to become a legendary or Cosmic villain. Then the heroes team enters to stop that villain. Or maybe a powerful evil creature comes out from there and then starts attacking the city and other citizens. By that moment it does, that villain they was trying to defeat and stop. Gets away, but you got a new evil to stop. Ether the giant worm or another creature.
Two Minute Drill:First stage, as the original thread poster mention, that the villain takes the mayor to the city hall. I think this should happen, only if the team was defeated, where they awake to find out that the mayor was taken by the villain they are fighting into the city hall. Then they got to try again to stop that villain again. Now if they win the first stage, it should be that the villain flee after being weaken and then doesn't take the mayor. But the villain gets new hostages and you got to save, if you lose then the worst a villains does to hostages. If you win, your team takes the villain back to the mayor and tells him he been defeated and to take him to jail.
Grab Alert:The heroes enter and meet the villain, they got to stop from stealing the money. If the villain wasn't stop, the money is stolen and you see the villain flee. Then you got to give chase to him, like going under a sewer to stop from escape. And when chasing him you see his henchmen trying to stop you, while he gets away. But after getting to a last room, he at a dead end where your team got a chance to try and defeat him and get the money. Now if you fail that one, that's where he just see your team defeated and laughs and runs away with the cash. Now if you won the first stage, you see him flee but drops the money. If you get him trap and beat him in the dead end of the sewer. You get to capture him and then report to the police about him being defeated. If you lose the second stage he just runs with out getting the money.
Time Machine alert: This one can be, when you defeating the villain you get to win and then you get to see normally like jurig I think that how is name is spell I apologize if I got that wrong. But normal he goes to change things in the past. But if your team fails, the villain gets to flee and then went into hiding. As your team awakes, your team ask Jurig to set the time machine to the moment this all started. Kind of like a Retry.
Trainstopping:there many other options for the alert. First it could have started that your team was chasing a villain, that was making chaos in the city. Then after you ether defeat him, he gets capture but your team notice it was a fake of that villain. But if your team lose, the fake tells you he wasn't the real main villain. Then, you get a report from one of the Iconic heroes from the champions online PnP. Letting you know where the real one was all this time. The real one was at the train station, planting the bombs with the henchmen to destroy the train full of citizens. If you didn't defeat him, he gets away. And the citizens are ether dead or badly injured. But if you do win, you save the citizens and save the day.
Burst Alerts: I know there two of them, but this can be ether for both. First, if you defeat the villain. He gets yellow and runs. Your team can find him in another part of the city or on top of city hall. If your team lost, he doesn't flee and gets Giant and more powerful. Kind of how Psimon was when he get that other form to beat down the heroes.
Dockside Dustup: For Dockside Dustup, I have two ideas. First one, when heroes hearing about the villain at the Dockside in Vibora bay. They rush there to stop him from planting the bomb in the city (I think that what the villain does in that alert, not sure myself what they are doing) But instead of fighting the villain right away, it should have been that the team fights the villains minions first a horde of them. To give the villain time to set it up (Maybe it can have a time limit like the 2 min, if you play the Red Winter Alert, it show you got to beat 3 main villains that will try to stop you. From stopping them.)
(The horde should be like the nemesis minions in the last one to stopping your nemesis for good.) Now if you beat them before the time limit, your team rush in and interrupts the villain from completing it. If you fail, you hear him laughing that he got it setup and then he activated it. Yet your team can still save the day, a count down starts and you got that time limit again where you must defeat him before that time limit. If you fail, he laughs leaving as the bomb blows up the city Dockside and anything near by. If you win, he is defeated and put to jail and the bomb is prevented from blowing up.
As for the poster quote below.
About the failures, yes there should be failures. But for the failures I think, when you lose the first stage or second stage to be weaker rewards and if the team fails all two stages. Then no reward at all and it be a complete fail. It be great for having that kind of failure, in alerts. In unity mission, I don't remember the name. But the last part of unity mission, you must save turn worm citizens into normal again. It was a bonus but added to that mission, why not for alerts to have stages to continue and have more fun and action into it right?
I apologize for a wall of text and the list being long. But I thought adding this here can help give attention to the developers team and to support the original thread poster. Plus adding more of a good detail examples ideas for the alerts too in helping to show it is a great idea the original poster mention. So far all this sound awesome to be added to CO ^_^ I would be playing the alerts a lot for these story's they be entertaining and make doing the daily Questionite mission to be fun in doing.
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But then again, just to play Devil's Advocate ... if you had 2-stage alerts, you'll just have people saying "WHY CAN'T WE HAVE 3-STAGES, IN CASE WE FAIL?!"
so ... yeah, I like this idea for cases where it's obviously an option to continue (Dockside Dustup being the most obvious. Heck, I might want to fail the main mission just to go swimming in minions.)
Same here about having a battle with the villains minions :biggrin:
Also I knew I forgotten a alert, got to update my post from before. I can't believe I forgotten that alert :-/
That be a great Idea, but if you think about it. When or how would the hero know the villain is about to strike? I seen in comics and animated movies, mostly all heroes don't know till it happens. Well there was one that did prevent a crisis from happening. Martin Man Hunter, in the Justice League two earths. If that what I remember the title, he was protecting the president daughter from being kill.
I'm guessing those with mental powers to read others thoughts, can know when a villain will strike. But not every hero can, still a good idea. Maybe having someone come from a time machine warn the heroes, what will happen and where the villain is to prevent it from happening at all like jurigs time machine, maybe something like the resistance mission or how about this idea. Like the theme cryptic is adding for nighthawk. Having to solve clues. But for the alert, there clues to find out where the villain will strike. Kind of like batman where he got to find out where the villain will make his first move and prevent it. I think that be a great way to the Preemptive Alerts idea you mention crypticbuxom. It be very interesting to do a alert with stuff like that to prevent the crisis from happening. ^_^
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
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Great ideas!
True. In Super Man comics and animated movies, Clark knows where Lex is at in metro city. Well at times, I know there other heroes that don't know where the villain would be at. But reason I was tossing the idea I added in the last post I quote you, to support your idea. Because it sound very cool to do a alert like that when it pops up ^_^
I hope they look at this thread and look at the ideas we have for adding another stage into the alerts we have now to make them more fun and more enjoyable to do again ^_^ I know this would be in the future, but I am hoping they will take this suggestions we all post in this thread
Unless the villain has some outstanding warrent for their arrest that'd make us... kinda bad guys. Thats the crossing over point from crime-fighter to something else entirely.
Thats the point where the officials revoke your sanction, where your methods are called into question, where other heroes start to try and bring you in.
While she has been rescued
what diabolical mastermind
was behind the devious brain-napping of
the Volterrific Dr Cerebellum?
Wow, you are very true there Battybattybats I agree with you on that. When I was reading your post, and though of that idea again, from Crypticbuxom who came up with it. Even if it was a good idea, but in the view point like that you mention. It's true, kind of like in super man & Batman Public enemy's. Where Super Man was put a arrest warrant on him for attacking Lex Luthor, which it wasn't true. But how they show the video, it was looking as he strike him first. I know I wouldn't want a whole army of heroes coming after me that for sure lol
I've only seen the animated version of Public Emeies but it was really good, And it would be good to have that kind of game story arc where we have to clear our name from a false charge in game. Not that it would fit well into an alert.
While she has been rescued
what diabolical mastermind
was behind the devious brain-napping of
the Volterrific Dr Cerebellum?
I agree, it be a good story arc. That heroes trying to clear there names. I agree with you also it wouldn't fit well into the alert.
That could be a cool 1st stage where the 2nd stage could be one of several possibilities that only becomes known when it gets to that point.
While she has been rescued
what diabolical mastermind
was behind the devious brain-napping of
the Volterrific Dr Cerebellum?
As for a preemptive alert. it might be nice to have some random heroes at a place like a grocery store or bank that just happens to get robbed only because your nemesis didn't know you were already there. catching them red handed in a comical sense would be a great foxbat alert or maniac nemesis alert.