Laser Sword Tank Build -- Comments?

monsterdaddy · July 2012

OK, after some testing, I came up with this build as the most viable and easiest to play for a Laser Sword toon. The ideal setup is 3 x Q secondaries, Heroic Gear for crit, dodge/avoid, cooldown and all statted with CON.

Estimated SS are: INT 243, CON, 404, END 70
Estimated HP: 15,000

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Mighty Leap
Level 6: Defiance (Force of Will)
Level 8: Laser Sword (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 14: Circle of Primal Dominion (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Masterful Dodge (Unfettered Strikes)
Level 20: Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Telekinetic Maelstrom (Rank 2, Expansive Intellect)
Level 26: Skarn's Bane (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
Level 29: Ego Surge (Rank 2, Nimble Mind)
Level 32: Aggressor (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Force Shield (Rank 2, Force Sheathe)
Level 38: Concentration

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Jet Boots
Level 35: Teleportation

Specializations:
Intelligence: Preparation (2/2)
Intelligence: Enlightened (1/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Unrelenting (2/2)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Defensive Expertise (3/3)
Sentinel: Eternal Spring (2/2)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (3/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

Laser Sword builds always have energy issues. So the idea here is to max CON for Defiance, and INT for MSA and Concentration. Each power gives energy returns of 76, 30, 34 at a max rate of 4 sec, 3 sec, 4 sec, respectively. MSA and Concentration are both proc'd by Telekinetic Maelstrom (which also procs Sentinel Mastery). As a bonus, I used Force Shield with Force Sheath since Elusive Monk and Laser Knight didn't seem to offer much more and decreased damage.

This should be enough to spam Laser Sword. END SS was needed to hold Energy when multiple proc's occur so we don't lose any valuable energy.

Thus, this should be an easy toon to play, Laser Sword and TK Maelstrom mainly with Actives every now and then.

Damage wise, I think this toon should be around 4K DPS. Ego Surge should be 50%+ crit buff, Aggressor adds a lot thanks to the STR buff, and Detect Vulnerability should be around 20%+ damage resist ignore. Wither buffs a straight 10% to damage which is real nice. Concentration was chosen as a Form because it buffed more damage to melee (5.2%) and more energy than any MA form could.

The neat thing is Sentinel Mastery which heals for about 750 per tick. Getting rushed by a mob is actually a good thing for this toon since 1 TK Maelstrom blast plus a 5 target Skarn's Bane = 3,750 heal per second! (A combat tip I can offer is to hit TK Maelstrom if you can before you have to block a bubble, the Plasma Burn DoT will continue to heal you while you are blocking.)

COMBAT EXPERIENCE: Using a variant of this build with INT/CON/DEX with 18,000 HP and Crashing Wave Kick, Grasping Shadows, Void Shift for Spirit Reverberation for Energy, she can tank Gravitar easily. Damage must be good because one time, we got stuck with just a team of 5 vs. her and we defeated her in good time. What I didn't like was that too many times I had to use Energy Builder and Spirit Reveberation was a pain to proc at times.

s3rju · July 2012

well, ofc elusive monk didn't really offered much... it scales with dex. SS that instead of end. also, laser sword is melee... and, considering it's gonna be your main power on this build (or am i wrong?) it should get the boost for it too. get fott.

force shield's adv scales with rec.
when it comes to tanking, crippling challenge is your main threat dealer. challenging strikes is usually for trash mobs etc. so with that in mind, i'd take something else instead of skarn's bane, and take the adv on laser sword(duh).

now, as far as dmg goes... if you go with a main melee power. choose your SS accordingly, which you didn't. laser sword is a strong power, but a melee power nonetheless. concentration offers alot less to it vs a MA form or enrage if SSed right.

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Mighty Leap
Level 6: Defiance (Force of Will)
Level 8: Laser Sword (Rank 2, Cripplling Challenge)
Level 11: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 14: Circle of Primal Dominion (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Masterful Dodge (Unfettered Strikes)
Level 20: Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Telekinetic Maelstrom (Rank 2, Expansive Intellect, challenging strikes?)
Level 26:
Level 29: Ego Surge (Rank 2, Nimble Mind)
Level 32: Aggressor (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Force Shield ( Force Sheathe)
Level 38: Form of the Tempest

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Jet Boots
Level 35: Teleportation

monsterdaddy · July 2012

LOL! I am going to apologize in advance as I usually avoid being snarky but I just need to say a tongue in cheek Thank You Captain Obvious! I even told you my int con dex toon wasn't working out as well as it could.

If it was that easy then we'd have a lot more Jedi running around but a viable Laser Sword build is anything BUT obvious.

Did you even think of why I would choose Concentration, a very odd choice indeed, over the obvious MA form? Because with 200+ int Concentration's melee buff is HIGHER than Focus even if I SS'd Dex. More importantly I get way more energy.

And energy is why this build uses END as SS. Got to store excess for later use.

As for CC, we'll see if it's needed with the high damage and self heals. I'm betting it's not.

theprettypixie · July 2012

Hey MD, have you considered Rec over endurance, since Defiance's energy return partly scales with that?

monsterdaddy · July 2012

Yeah, REC would help with MSA and most of all Force Sheathe too. But I think the problem is when you get multiple Energy procs. If I had no END SS maybe in Tank role I'd be lucky to get 90-100 Max Energy. Well if Defiance +76, Concentration +33, and MSA of 28 all proc's at once, well I lose quite a bit of energy.

I was doing that based on a 12 second attack frame. That's about 20 swipes with Laser sword for 300 Energy plus about 30 Energy say for a 2 sec TK Maelstrom. So 330 Energy usage in 12 seconds. If it worked out perfectly, I would get about 400 Energy per 12 seconds.

But that's only if the proc's never overlapped and with my other toon it did -- alot -- so I still wound up using Energy Builder. To makes things more interesting, Gravitar doesn't hit all that frequently sometimes so incoming Energy from Defiance sometimes dried up.

So with an extra 80 Max Energy I figure I can store that Energy. I hated giving up DEX.

And BTW choosing END as SS was also motivated by the INT spec that raised Equilibrium with END (not much but it helps to self cast TK Maelstrom to start the MSA chain and buff Concentration OUTSIDE of combat.)

s3rju · July 2012

I guess all I can do is reply back with a snarky comment of my own...
243 dex
241 int

focus gives me 11% melee dmg and 5.3% ranged dmg, and 34 energy.
concentration givems 11% ranged dmg and 5.3% melee dmg and 34 energy.

so, how exactly is concentration more beneficial for a melee toon again?

since when is making a laser sword tank hard

monsterdaddy · July 2012

s3rju wrote: »

I guess all I can do is reply back with a snarky comment of my own...
243 dex
241 int

focus gives me 11% melee dmg and 5.3% ranged dmg, and 34 energy.
concentration givems 11% ranged dmg and 5.3% melee dmg and 34 energy.

so, how exactly is concentration more beneficial for a melee toon again?
since when is making a laser sword tank hard

Note: I never said Concentration was better than Focus for melee toons. Try and up your reading skills. The key point is you run out of energy with DEX/CON/INT several times in a long fight.

What looks good on paper doesn't work in game against a tough boss. Why don't you actually have your Laser Sword toon take on Gravitar? So far mine has solo'd her for over 1 full bar with zero support.

I'll predict you can get 30 Energy with MSA, 34 with your Focus and maybe 35 with the 220ish left over for CON. Over 12 seconds you get 327 Energy under ideal conditions. Laser Sword strikes 24 times over 12 seconds x 15 per slash so that's 300 Energy use. Of course, I said ideal conditions -- with your sub 100 Max Energy you will lose excess energy many times and wind up on Energy Builder. Plus you will have 4,000 less HP than my toon.

For the people actually interested in a viable Laser Sword toon, we know balancing durabilty, damage and energy use has been the key challenge for Laser Sword.

s3rju · July 2012

you forgot to include the bonuses from gear, such as cooldown redux and cost dicount, and that's on top of the bonuses from int... what happened to force sheath?

you said concentration gives a HIGHER bonus than focus even with DEX SSed, do i need to quote you?

the bottom line is, if you use laser sword as your main power, focus will be better no matter what, because in terms of dps it straight out in the open outshines concentration, like it's ment to...
but whatever, have fun being sub-optimal.

P.S: i think you should up your reading skills since the thread you created has this thing called... COMMENTS?

ventani · July 2012

I see what the OP is trying to do. While your point that Focus would be better in most cases it would, it would not be better however for what he is trying to accomplish.

What I didn't like was that too many times I had to use Energy Builder and Spirit Reveberation was a pain to proc at times.

I am curious why you took clobber over Laser Edge and ML over LSD if you are aiming for a LS build. And did you just run out of points for Crippling Challenge?

s3rju · July 2012

monsterdaddy wrote: »

Note: I never said Concentration was better than Focus for melee toons. Try and up your reading skills. The key point is you run out of energy with DEX/CON/INT several times in a long fight.

What looks good on paper doesn't work in game against a tough boss. Why don't you actually have your Laser Sword toon take on Gravitar? So far mine has solo'd her for over 1 full bar with zero support.

I'll predict you can get 30 Energy with MSA, 34 with your Focus and maybe 35 with the 220ish left over for CON. Over 12 seconds you get 327 Energy under ideal conditions. Laser Sword strikes 24 times over 12 seconds x 15 per slash so that's 300 Energy use. Of course, I said ideal conditions -- with your sub 100 Max Energy you will lose excess energy many times and wind up on Energy Builder. Plus you will have 4,000 less HP than my toon.

For the people actually interested in a viable Laser Sword toon, we know balancing durabilty, damage and energy use has been the key challenge for Laser Sword.

just to clarify here, your assumptions are based on those two numbers i posted correct? because i had to remove two primary pieces iirc in order to come close to your stat numbers.

now, since you forgot to mention it... force sheath procs for 8s every time you're hit... and if you have the REC for it that's way over 300 energy alone. add in defiance and i still don't see how energy is an issue...
on your dex toon you mentioned dex wasn't even your primary SS, not to mention you took a energy unlock with a cooldown on it.
hp is a non-factor in most cases, since it's super easy to stack up hp these days...

this cat and mouse game is amusing and all... but can't you atleast justify your thread? atleast change the title :biggrin:

monsterdaddy · July 2012

Ventani, I simply didn't take LSD because it didn't have a stun (for Sentinel Mastery) and without desiring a second Tier 0/1 power in Power Armor I had to choose a different Energy Builder. So Mighty Leap had a stun and Defiance could be my second Tier 0/1 power so that worked. One added bonus in having Clobber was that it was easy to see whenever I was using Energy Builder. Nothing more.

Serju, taking SS DEX does NOT mean I am gearing up DEX to the level of 243. SS DEX just gets me to about 65-70 DEX and that means Focus adds less melee damage buff than Concentration. You realize the extra 170 pts of DEX has to come from somewhere and I am saying you cannot afford to take 170 pts away from CON which reduces Defiance's energy gain. Sure gain Energy in Focus, lose in Defiance -- doesn't work in the end.

Every Laser Sword build has tried out FoTT and everyone I've talked to can't make it work on FoTT.

I did ask for comments, thanks. But it's apparent I am not communicating to you that Laser Sword builds are not easy to make work in the real game.

s3rju · July 2012

have you tried force shield+adv with rec? how about defiance with rec?
my sheath gives me around 25 per tick with 200ish REC... how much does your over statted Confiance give you? it is very easy to run out of energy with no cost reduction for laser sword, it takes alot of energy per tick. most ppl have low energy and can't manage it properly even with all the mentioned above... now with that in mind, as long as you have the aggro and even if it's by just using your energy builder... as a tank that matters... how?

monsterdaddy · July 2012

Didn't see your post #10 and when I posted #11.

In any case, I see there's no point arguing over and over because you firmly believe what works on paper will work in game. I don't think I can change anything you believe unless you actually play a Laser Sword toon and test it.

You're funny if you think I haven't tested loads of cost reduction -- it's just not enough. Lowest I got Laser Sword down to was 13 per slash.

Since I do have real combat experience, I just say this:

My current setup has a Ameliorating Bracer and Hospitable Eyepiece instead of Vigilante so just a little less INT than my OP. Energy still gets scarce when fighting Gravitar because 1) she doesn't hit always hit you constantly even if you DO have agg and 2) when she does she does that fast 3 hit combo so only one Defiance energy procs. Force Sheathe isn't getting proc'd very often either due to this.

So storing up energy with END has been very helpful for energy dry spells. Another benefit of having Concentration is DPS when I have to use Skarn's Bane on her which appears to be too often (it helps the team survive so we finish faster -- I almost want to add Smoke Grenade too...)

I've only had one instance of a healer staying near me, other times they were busy reviving or just wanted to stay out of her sight so I am usually on my own for healing. The high HP of 15,000 is needed for HEALING, 15K HP equals a 750 Sentinel Mastery heal proc. So in these aspects there are no diminishing returns for high CON in this case, each pt of CON is 19.8 HP and 1 pt to Sentinel Mastery heal.

There is one change I think will be good. Lock N Load with Two Smoking Barrels for Aggressor, need to be able to break out anytime in case she somehow Holds me then creates the Yellow Bubble of Death.

s3rju · July 2012

beliefs only go so far... defiance only porcs every 3 but, it still scales(the energy return) on con AND rec. when you get the returns from defiance to over a 100 let me know... since that's easily achievable pre on alert

speaking of hold breakers, why not the adv on resurgence? i know nimble is usually enough to proc it's crit heals but it's an oh $h!t button regardless.
if you're thinking about anotehr a.o, considering this is a tank i'd go with electric sheath+adv.

also, you should have mentioned from the get-go this build is absolutely only for gravitar... have you tried it on anything else? if this is truly a team only tank then by all means, whatever works for you... otherwise you can take my advise or the other advises that were given out.

holding aggro is easy, surviving to tell about it is... not so much. but nothing is impossible

you can do eet :rolleyes:

monsterdaddy · July 2012

Defiance proc's every 4 seconds. But even if it proc'd for 1,000 Energy every time, the issue is your Max Energy. This is the most important issue I am trying to convey.

You cannot assume you will get a proc every 4 seconds and even if it did you will run out before the next proc because you have no stats left to add to END and have a Max Energy of about 100.

I have seen my Energy bar drop almost to zero many times on Gravitar. Without the extra 70 Max Energy I would definitely be out. Which can be dangerous since TK Maelstrom is costly and is needed to proc the heals on Sentinel Mastery for you and your team.

Good idea on Resurgence advantage. I didn't know this until recently but Block get stronger the longer you press it so I can hitan AO AND Resurgence to insta break the hold and get block up longer for greatly reduced damage. (For those damn fast yellow bubbles.)

I never said this was just for Gravitar. It's for any boss. Gravitar happens to be the hardest and accessible boss atm. My old builds solo'd Vikorin on Elite and Qwyjibo and they were much less durable with less DPS than this one.

Concentration is proving very nice in casual encounters like Hi-Pan but buggy as hell in laggy situations like Gravitar. Doesn't seem to proc even on full charges and disappears way to fast. Grrr...

machinegunblues · December 2012

I know this is an old thread, but I've been running a variant of this for a bit and I had one potential observation for the OP and others..

70 END is not alot. If that's what you're shooting for as a level 40.. why bother taking END as a superstat at all? You can get to that through talents and a single armoring/enhancement in your SCR gear. Admittedly it's great to have while leveling, you're right about needing the extra reserves, but I figure when I hit 40.. why gear/talent that much END in, and take STR for the damage or DEX for the crit boost?

monsterdaddy · December 2012

machinegunblues wrote: »

I know this is an old thread, but I've been running a variant of this for a bit and I had one potential observation for the OP and others..

70 END is not alot. If that's what you're shooting for as a level 40.. why bother taking END as a superstat at all? You can get to that through talents and a single armoring/enhancement in your SCR gear. Admittedly it's great to have while leveling, you're right about needing the extra reserves, but I figure when I hit 40.. why gear/talent that much END in, and take STR for the damage or DEX for the crit boost?

Sigh, once again, using energy builder = loss of DPS, far more than is replaced by 70 STR or DEX. 70 END would be just enough storage for more continuous spamming of Laser Sword.

In any case, this thread contains my more updated and much for effective Laser Sword tank/support build:

http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=179351

machinegunblues · December 2012

I don't think you're getting that I'm getting at, but nevermind.