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Why creating new powers...
misterspider
Posts: 35 Arc User
...when we already have existing powers waiting to be release to general public? :rolleyes:
I'm talking about powers used by bots but still not available for players.
Powers like
- the Brick Buster debuff
- the "Hulk Smash" attack Bear Manimals on MI use
- the cry from Bird Manimals that repels you
- the Karkaradon Thresher's harpoon throw that penetrates your enemy and pulls him towards you
- the Telekinetic Sword attack cutting from above (lever movement) Elder Worms show on MI
- the disable power (can still move but cannot use any powers or block) from Botono (Sovereign Sons)
- and so on...
I don't see any reasons why those powers are supposed to be bot-only. I could see this point for Therakiel's sword attacks since he's a special boss.
Such attacks could be easily balanced out (in case they are UP or OP) and then be released for public enjoyment. As new powers or devices (rewards maybe: like the raise moral megaphone power used by Viper Squad Leader -> device: Resistance Leader Megaphone).
Instead, new attacks are being created (e.g. Boomerang powers). While I am thankful and happy about new powers of course,
I just don't get why creating something completely new gets the priority while you could pump out new stuff easily by just using what is already there with very little time and effort.
I could as well talk about emotes and costume but I won't.
I'm talking about powers used by bots but still not available for players.
Powers like
- the Brick Buster debuff
- the "Hulk Smash" attack Bear Manimals on MI use
- the cry from Bird Manimals that repels you
- the Karkaradon Thresher's harpoon throw that penetrates your enemy and pulls him towards you
- the Telekinetic Sword attack cutting from above (lever movement) Elder Worms show on MI
- the disable power (can still move but cannot use any powers or block) from Botono (Sovereign Sons)
- and so on...
I don't see any reasons why those powers are supposed to be bot-only. I could see this point for Therakiel's sword attacks since he's a special boss.
Such attacks could be easily balanced out (in case they are UP or OP) and then be released for public enjoyment. As new powers or devices (rewards maybe: like the raise moral megaphone power used by Viper Squad Leader -> device: Resistance Leader Megaphone).
Instead, new attacks are being created (e.g. Boomerang powers). While I am thankful and happy about new powers of course,
I just don't get why creating something completely new gets the priority while you could pump out new stuff easily by just using what is already there with very little time and effort.I could as well talk about emotes and costume but I won't.
Formerly unknown as @FroschMitHut
Post edited by misterspider on
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Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
You want them to stop making new powers for new content, and releasing them to players at the same time, so that they can do the same with old powers that at least three of those (both Manimal powers and the Thresher one - the Bird Manimal 'screech' and the Thresher harpoon are both ability reskins, and I'm assuming you mean Shockwave for the Bear manimals which players can get, but your description is ambiguous) players have access to in some variation already?
I can get the appeal, but I don't think it's worth stalling both new content (the powers on PTS for Gadgeteering are almost entirely done for Nighthawk, who has an event coming up soon afaik) or new power additions in order to facilitate (though maybe it's something they can work on alongside those kinds of projects).
(TANGENT: Bird Manimal 'screech' is likely a reskin of Crushing Wave using the Sonic Blaster graphic, the Thresher ability is either Iron Lariat or Shuriken Throw with the knock-to advantage. As indicated, I can't think of a single power that Bear manimals use that isn't already in the Might framework. The Elder Worm power may just be a movement-difference as Ego Blade Breach [or is it Annihilation?] and Dragon's Wrath both apply a similar animation [with dual weapons] when used while moving.)
[SIGPIC]Also, this poster rambles.[/SIGPIC]
1. Did I indicate I want them to stop creating new stuff? I was just wondering why already existing powers are not available to players (same goes for emotes, costumes). It does not matter whether the powers I did or did not mention have a completely different mechanic than anything that already exists or are just simple reskins. I mean if you think reskins are not worth the effort, ok. But I do care if an enemy got sent flying by my fist or my gun - it's not the same, isn't it? And those "new" laser sword powers are also reskins.
So it was not my intention questioning Nighthawk.
2. That's the point. It is NOT the same effort, so it does not require them to stop working on other stuff. I mean creating a new power (general idea, mechanics, interaction, animation, stat adjustion) is completely different in effort to release an already existing power or power reskin.
3. You assumed wrong. The Bear Manimal power I'm talking about is not Shockwave (pounding the ground with both fists) but a charged power very similar to the "Hulk Smash" (if you saw the movie Hulk) throwing at the same time both fists with great force to the ground.
About the Elder Worms I'm not entirely sure. You can be right, but I know how their "Dragon's Wrath" attack looks like. The power I mean is just one sword attacking with a thrust from above with one hand. I don't see them using this attack often, though.
Formerly unknown as @FroschMitHut
It wasn't your intention, but you brought it up specifically in relation to what you perceived an issue. I don't follow your logic there - if you're going to use it as an example, the obvious intention is that you have an issue with it as it's being presented, or you don't understand why it's being done.
As to reskins, no, I don't think they're generally worth the effort for the most part, unless there's some very specific and large changes to it (Wind is almost entirely a reskin of Force, and even then, it has a lot of changes to it that makes it similar, but still different mechanically; Might-Chains and Infernal-Chains are also reskins, but because of how Framework interactions work, and the fact that they also have different damage types to increase their ability to work within those two frameworks independent of each other, I find that acceptable). Minor things like animation swaps I think are an absolute waste of development time.
As for Laser Sword, they're reskins that also feature new mechanics (Particle Burn, something already present in the original Laser Sword power from Launch; A power that has been begged to be expanded into it's own set since at least that time, for that matter), and similar to Might-Chains and Infernal-Chains, include different damage types (Particle) and framework considerations.
None of your current list of suggestions is anything more then a one-off cherry-picked power addition. While I agree that stuff like that can have merit and it should have development time done to support it, these are not the same things.
Maybe you should look into how you're phrasing things, then - even in this reply, you're making it sound more like you're asking for one to be ignored in favor of the other. Also, I don't think any of us are in any real position to judge what is/is not an acceptable level of effort for the development team, not being able to see what it is exactly that goes into power creation.
I've seen some discussions of it, heavily, from Ame (one of the guys that may or may not still be doing stuff like this specifically as part of his job), and there's a lot more to it then just slapping different animations on things. The short version being that even alternate variations of a power require similar database work as creating a new power itself (even if it reuses animations), and things like advantages can lead to similar things (0-point advantages come to mind). Yes, there's a difference of development time if no new mechanics or art is required, but it's not as large a difference as people assume.
Again, hard to get an idea of what you're saying here. There's some real clarity issues with your statements here (mainly through assumption on your part of what you're saying being common knowledge), at least insofar as the Manimals as indicated. Again, I haven't seen them do anything that is not already replicable in Might itself. If there is a difference, it's something so minor as far as animation goes that it's not noticeable. And I blow up a lot of Manimals.
RE: Elder Worms, it may be a variation of the animation to reflect the fact that they don't get the dual-Ego Blades. Since I've never used a single Ego Blade version of either attack, however, I can't say for certain, and most of this specific part of the discussion is guesswork on my part.
[SIGPIC]Also, this poster rambles.[/SIGPIC]
Did I miss an announcement?
Yea, there is a whole mess of new "dark knight" type powers over on the test server. Stealth, boomerang attacks, smoke bombs, grapple guns, ect. Looks like they are paving the way for Nighthawk to make his arrival.
I understand your point and it's a good one. It also leads to several other directions in which I need to improve my thinking in general.
As for reskins, the discussion goes into a wrong direction. I wanted to talk about the difference between the effort of releasing a newly created power and releasing an already existing power only used by bots before. I did not want to question the effort behind reskinning powers. I wanted to say that I like the powers mentioned to be available for players, doesn't matter if they are new mechanics or just reskins.
I agree.
Not maybe but definitely, since things appear to be going into the wrong direction.
Me: "...so it does not require them to stop working on other stuff..."
You: "...you're asking for one to be ignored in favor of the other..."
I don't get why I find myself in this misunderstanding.
Plus, of course we can't judge the real effort behind the scenes of Champions Online if we haven't been there. So every assumption in this direction is purely opinion-based. Just like when I claimed the effort behind creating new powers is bigger than when releasing already existing powers.
I agree. I guess that can be one of the reasons why "just" releasing existing powers may not be as easy as I first suspected.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4cAAIfxlpg
6:20 and 7:02 - the Bear Manimal shows the attack I discribed. I don't know any power like this available. I'd be happy to be corrected though.
Something I'd like to test myself if my Ego Blades character wasn't locked behind the gold wall due to my holiday caused subscription cancel. :rolleyes:
P.S.: It's "more than" not "more then".
<_< Since I saw you doing that mistake for the second time I could not help but to say it. Kinda like the same issue as this.
Formerly unknown as @FroschMitHut
That's kind of why I brought up the entire point on reskins - the current data tends to suggest that these abilities are almost entirely just slightly different versions of things already in-game and available to players in the first place. While I understand the appeal in wanting a different animation or a very specific effect, what I'm not following is the argument that this isn't what we're talking about when all the current data suggests that no, that's exactly what is being discussed.
Effectively, these powers are technically available to players already, though on occasion not with that specific animation or damage component (I think you might actually be able to change Crushing Wave to a different emanation point, actually). Just a lot of them are reskinned from existing concepts specifically to fit the NPC that's using them.
EDIT: Didn't have the time to (nor ability - the character I was testing out was juust shy of level appropriate for Monster Island) hunt down and find an Ego Blade-using Elder Worm, or I would have tested that as well.
[SIGPIC]Also, this poster rambles.[/SIGPIC]
However, regardless of whether players should get such unique powers, the mentioned powers aren't really unique at all: They're just reskins of current powers that players have as ukatoenasni has mentioned. They're just unique in aesthetics, so I don't really see any solid ground for the complaint.
Why would I want a weakened version of a power Steely Dan had back at sixth level or so?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Sure, we know it's thee and some want it. But at the same time, you don't want everythign to be accessible. the bad guys need to have some of their own unique traits because not everything is designed to be used by players, but against them.
Oh, also i want Vikorins immortal golem pets if we're going to get all their powers etc.
Lunges use to have a charge up requirement hehe. That being said, I think critters and bosses having their own unique powers is nice. Makes them unique from players, and gives them their own life.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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