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Lvl 40 freeform tank ideas?
rehmes
Posts: 13 Arc User
I've got my tank to lvl 40 and bought the armadilion secondary gear and earning silver marks to get some primary gear now.
Any ideas for powers as a tank?
I want to be able to take the threat away and keep it, survive and dps.
I want to be able to keep the big bosses threat without worring too much about a healer healing me on the correct times and still do damage to it.
Build by championBuilder 0.4.1
Download this Build here.
: Level 40 Champion
Superstats:
Level 6: Super Constitution
Level 13: Super Strength
Level 9000: Super Dexterity
Powers:
Level 1: Wield Earth
Level 1: Defiance
Level 6: Iron Cyclone -- Vortex Technique, Challenging Strikes, Rank 2
Level 6: Teleport -- Rank 2
Level 8: Aggressor -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 11: Enrage -- Endorphin Rush, Giant Growth
Level 14: Ebon Void -- Rank 2, Rank 3, Voracious Darkness
Level 17: Nanobot Swarm -- Rejuvenating Injectors
Level 20: Intensity -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence -- Resurgent Reiki
Level 26: Palliate -- Absolve
Level 29: Haymaker -- Nullifying Punch, Rank 2
Level 32: Defensive Combo -- Crippling Challenge
Level 35: Overdrive
Level 35: Superjump -- Rebounding Resilience
Level 38: Resurgence
Talents:
Level 1: The Master
Level 6: Acrobat
Level 9: Physical Conditioning
Level 12: Martial Focus
Level 15: Relentless
Level 18: Quick Recovery
Level 21: Covert Ops Training
Any ideas for powers as a tank?
I want to be able to take the threat away and keep it, survive and dps.
I want to be able to keep the big bosses threat without worring too much about a healer healing me on the correct times and still do damage to it.
Build by championBuilder 0.4.1
Download this Build here.
: Level 40 Champion
Superstats:
Level 6: Super Constitution
Level 13: Super Strength
Level 9000: Super Dexterity
Powers:
Level 1: Wield Earth
Level 1: Defiance
Level 6: Iron Cyclone -- Vortex Technique, Challenging Strikes, Rank 2
Level 6: Teleport -- Rank 2
Level 8: Aggressor -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 11: Enrage -- Endorphin Rush, Giant Growth
Level 14: Ebon Void -- Rank 2, Rank 3, Voracious Darkness
Level 17: Nanobot Swarm -- Rejuvenating Injectors
Level 20: Intensity -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence -- Resurgent Reiki
Level 26: Palliate -- Absolve
Level 29: Haymaker -- Nullifying Punch, Rank 2
Level 32: Defensive Combo -- Crippling Challenge
Level 35: Overdrive
Level 35: Superjump -- Rebounding Resilience
Level 38: Resurgence
Talents:
Level 1: The Master
Level 6: Acrobat
Level 9: Physical Conditioning
Level 12: Martial Focus
Level 15: Relentless
Level 18: Quick Recovery
Level 21: Covert Ops Training
Post edited by rehmes on
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Comments
I have found Regeneration to be really great for tanking. At rank 3 it grants 30% damage resistance and since you have the Armadillo secondary gears the healing it does should help you out. Defiance is really great too.
Devour Essence from Infernal is a self-heal attack that can take Crippling Challenge. That can be very useful.
But I agree that Regeneration is really good for that. STR is good for PSS thanks to Juggernaut which can buff up your Dam Resist to about 70% with Warden/Vindicator specs.
With Regen, you can skip PRE since it has no effect on Regen.
Not sure if I understand this completly..
PSS?
Juggernaut what's that?
Warden/vindicator specs?
So with Regen I don't need pre? but pre makes your agro more when your in defensive role.
PSS -> Primary Super Stat
The other points are mostly related to specializations (and shorthand thereof).
I dunno, I'm also not entirely sure I would recommend Regeneration for someone that was going to tank. I would recommend taking either Invulnerability or Defiance, and then getting the +Avoidance Silver Champions Recognition defensive primary (put a +Dodge modification in it and get a +Dodge secondary of some sort to go with it). You'll likely need to pick up a short heal of some sort (Conviction or Bountiful Chi Resurgence) to combo with this, but just using that setup you should be able to tank most things without much of a care in the world. Active Defenses in addition to that help.
You don't really need the +Avoidance/Dodge bonuses, but they help significantly and aren't overly hard to get (1-2 days of running a daily set of UNITY/UNITY2 missions).
Going primary-superstat CON is also a good idea (especially if you go for Invulnerability, as Fuel my Fire makes your energy management a bit easier when you have full aggro). I don't think you need as much PRE these days, but I'm not entirely certain on that.
I can't really think of Specialization information off-hand, outside of Primary Superstat suggestions. :U
Not sure how Earth holds up for tanking, either.
EDIT: Of course, there's a few handy things here that should still remain applicable. Courtesy Kenpo, who is pretty awesome. Link contains links to other things you can use to build a better idea for yourself (or at least obtain more understanding).
[SIGPIC]Also, this poster rambles.[/SIGPIC]
PSS = Primary Super Stat
Juggernaut what's that? - A strength Spec Tree option brought in On Alert
Warden/vindicator specs? - Other Spec Trees brought in On Alert
pre makes your agro more when your in defensive role = Not anymore.
Tank role increases your threat or using the Bulwark from the Protector Spec Tree
Spec Tree Info: http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=145568
EDIT: Protector Spec tree should be a shoe-in for a tank closely followed by either Warden(melee) or Guardian(ranged)
In a former life I was known as Supercollide
Con:
Unyielding 2
Resiliant 2
Fuel my fire 1
Deflection 3
Armored 2
Warden:
Fortified gear 3
Ruthless 2
Tenacious 2
The best defense 3
Vindicator:
Aggressive stance 2
Merciless 3
The rush of battle 3
Modified gear 2
Constitution mastery
Download this Build here.
: Level 40 Champion
Superstats:
Level 6: Super Constitution
Level 13: Super Strength
Level 9000: Super Dexterity
Powers:
Level 1: Wield Earth
Level 1: Defiance
Level 6: Iron Cyclone -- Vortex Technique, Challenging Strikes, Rank 2
Level 6: Teleport -- Rank 2
Level 8: Aggressor -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 11: Enrage -- Endorphin Rush, Giant Growth
Level 14: Ebon Void -- Rank 2, Rank 3, Voracious Darkness
Level 17: Nanobot Swarm -- Rejuvenating Injectors
Level 20: Intensity -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence -- Resurgent Reiki
Level 26: Palliate -- Absolve
Level 29: Haymaker -- Nullifying Punch, Rank 2
Level 32: Defensive Combo -- Crippling Challenge
Level 35: Overdrive
Level 35: Superjump -- Rebounding Resilience
Level 38: Resurgence
Talents:
Level 1: The Master
Level 6: Acrobat
Level 9: Physical Conditioning
Level 12: Martial Focus
Level 15: Relentless
Level 18: Quick Recovery
Level 21: Covert Ops Training
301,2 defense 71% to all damage resistance and that's without adding the armadilion and the defiance stacks.
It's quite good I must say. I can take all 3 hordes in the powerhouse battlestation max difc and team solo. But there's a few things that annoy me a bit. My energy get's low quite fast even with 3 overdrive stacks and I feel my aoe attack should do more dmg.
I dunno if you guys have any suggestions. Also I took Palliate to remove aggro on others if needed dunno if that's a good idea or not.
Also I have thought about taking Inertial Dampening Field instead of Enrage but I don't really need it and I'll lose some damage and healing.
1) Adds a variable damage resistance of up to 30%. Couple this with Juggernaut/CON and Circle of Primal Dominion and you can hit like 120% damage resistance which is more than enough with a little Dodge/Avoid.
2) You heal even when you are blocking. Low on HP while fighting Gravitar? Just turtle and watch your health go up without a healer around. Gives the rezzers time to use Triumphant Recovery.
So my Regen/Enrage uses Supernatural Power to take care of the energy issues and has tanked even solo'd Gravitar for a bar. BTW his heal is almost 1500 every 3 sec.
I do agree without Defiance or Const PSS that you could have some energy issues. There are lots of ways around it and I'm guessing that's why there so many energy builder procs in tank trees.
I also have a ranged Skarn's Bane/Defiance tank with Sentinel Mastery (Ego/Sentinel/Protector) for heals. That is pretty sturdy too with Sentinel heal procs of 668 per second. She has Force of Will to further pump up damage resistance.
She also had the unfortunate experience of having to solo Gravitar on and off for 15 minutes (poor rezzers kept getting killed) but she got Grav in the end.
1 Does regeneration give 30% damage res?
The problem with Circle of Primal Dominion is that most of the time the bosses moves after you have set it down I've tried it so many times.
2 I got the ebon void to heal me when I'm blocking and it's quite good at it. I've tried gathering all three groups in the powerhouse battlestation on max difc and highest team and blocked everything getting more hp then I lose.
Force of will from defiance only gives kb and stun resistance?
but the skarn bane thing I might try on another champion that seems pretty cool.
Regen does give 30% damage resistance that is variable in that it gets reduced as you get damaged. The tooltip amount seems to gyrate wildly in fights. But the 250% heal bonus is pretty constant.
Gravitar and Celestial bosses don't seem to move much at all and Grav and Qwyjibo knock alot so Primal Dominion works real well.
Invulnerability has the same problem, realistically, but it also starts off taking them a lot better, in addition to outright ignoring smaller 'chip' damage. Defiance requires no real Advantage point investment at all (unless you want to start at higher values for tanking purposes - which is a valid use of those points), takes smaller hits a bit harder then Invulnerability, but can pretty much ignore any 'spike' damage for the most part (while mostly solving energy management issues).
Regen and PFF are not exactly powers I'd recommend to the average or beginner tank, simply because they both require a fair amount of additional support (though they are viable) that, comparitively, isn't as needed in Invulnerability or Defiance (and technically Lightning Reflexes, but with how easy it is to get significant Dodge/Avoidance values through talents and gears, I can't recommend it these days either, though it still works).
The same amount of additional support you put into those two, you can generally put into either Invulnerability and Defiance and get more consistent or flat better performance. Of course, that's just my opinion on it, and is part of why I recommend reading other people's guides/etc. on the matter to get a better idea of how things work. The big difference is that Regeneration often needs some additional Heal support, in addition to a greater focus on defense (harder to build for - which is exactly the problem it's always had, and the same problem it shares with PFF to an extent), whereas Invulnerability/Defiance/Lightning Reflexes all require minor additional defensive consideration and greater personal heal support (much easier to build for). One good Support character can make the heal-support portion meaningless, and generally works better with the 'traditional' tanking passives as a result.
Ultimately, only you can decide what works for your playstyle, after all. Playstyle is one of the most important considerations when designing a character, and there's a ton of variance between people. What works for others may not work for you.
If you have a Gold account (provided they haven't lifted the arbitrary conditions on the PTS), I recommend testing out a wide variety of combinations on the PTS to determine what works and what doesn't, for you. Powerhouse 5-man can get you a general idea on whether the build is survivable, but I have to agree that the real big test will be in something like an Alert (provided you can get one started) or through running an Adventure Pack (particularly some of the ones with tougher Supervillain fights). Or finding a Cosmic to take pot-shot sat you (it's usually pretty trivial to start the Mega-D event on the PTS).
[SIGPIC]Also, this poster rambles.[/SIGPIC]
Anything better dmg and less energy cosuming then iron chain?
I took Palliate to remove aggro on others if needed dunno if that's a good idea or not?
My energy problem is better then i used to be now with overdrive and I guess I could change specialization a bit and add a recovery mod into 1 of my items.
Here is my Regen Enrage Supernatural tank:
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=148961
I will have to create a post on my Skarn's Bane but she uses Defiance/Concentration and is Ego/Sentinel/Protector with Sentinel Mastery using TK Maelstrom to proc the healing. Over 400 CON and with Crit gear for 37% crit, Dodge/Avoid and Cooldown gear. She is Ego/Int/Con so she uses Barricade Bracer and Altruistic Eyepiece Uniques. Over 13K HP.
Just today (because everyone once again died) in Gravitar she solo'd an exhausting half bar.
Woaw that seems pretty cool. I would like to try that build out myself. I just retrained one of my character into this with a few adjustments http://champions-online.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gameguides&action=display&thread=492 just to see how a ranged tank works and it's pretty amazing. This however is largely focused on damage which is okay I just want a little more certain aggro and survivablity.
Paragon proceeded to solo Gravitar. Easily.
I have rebirth on the character I was in there with and would sometimes poke my head out from behind a tree keeping me out of line of sight now and then to fire off a defile, but with just 2 of us, my dps toon just could not stay out there even though Paragon held aggro because of Gravitar's wacky targeting. After just one or two defiles, she does her string of force cascades on me and I have to hide behind a tree and BCR back up from near death.
It was really impressive to watch. The only time his health bar dropped low was with those yellow field blasts of death, but he could always recover super fast.
Now, I talked to him for a bit after that and I have a pretty good idea of what his build is. I'm sort of tempted to make one, but I just feel like it will be a little too slow in playstyle for me for most of the content.
He's primary Int, with Con and Str. Passive is invuln, toggle is enrage. He uses the Int spec energy builder to frequently recharge long cd powers, so he almost always has masterful dodge and multiple stacks of BCR up, and he has the protector mastery for emergency gap-coverage when masterful dodge is still on cooldown and he'd get hit by Gravitar's spike. I'm guessing that he'd fire off an unleashed rage in between energy builder smacks, clicking on bcr and masterful dodge, a lunge with crippling challenge, and his offensive active, while MSA is up continuously from all these things coming off of cooldown in sequence.
Soooo... Is there anyone out there that could make a variation of this super tough build that also has other, faster options to handle content that doesn't require such mighty defense? I've mostly been using DPS toons and such a pure tank would feel great in a 5 man lair, but I don't know how happy I'd be using this for most situations... I think it would feel quite slow. I wish I could marry this hyper tough build with something like Pulsewave's giant growth build and have both worlds available (as separate builds on the same character without having to respec to switch builds).
Vanguard, is your Skarn's Bane tank fun to play in less challenging content? I'd really like to see your build; since it's ranged, it may feel more natural to me than might. I also looked at your beast supernatural build... I like the idea of having more damage, but I'm kind of sad that the only way to build enrage is through aggressor. Maybe I'll try your supernatural beast anyway...
Anyways, a few points. Enrage can be proc'd by Pounce and Massacre (both have an inherent Knockdown) so Aggressor is just extra.
My Skarn's Bane tank has HALF the DPS of my Supernatural tank but she was designed for weird bosses that can be affected by Skarn's Bane and for future healing bosses with Ebon Ruin. But she can heal her teammates with Sentinel Mastery and is very durable. I agree with Paragon that low cooldown can be a key tank feature. I used INT as secondary SS tho and just geared her up for cooldown.
She's fun to play just kinda of slow on kills. It is funny to see her TK Maelstrom stun 5 mobs then use Skarn's bane to heal 668 x5 per second. That heal per second is hard to beat LOL!
In the end I converted my squishy infernal to a defiance tank with dodge gear. Debuff with a defile tap and fire snake, maintain the stacks with the blast, and heal/dps with devour essence. =P It's more generalist and still not as pure a tank (I get knocked around a lot by Gravitar without the circle and strength ss), but I guess I'm just not a natural tank guy.
Actually I do not use the protector mastery, I use intel mastery, there is no need to for the protector mastery tree because by the time an attack can get Paragon down to 30% health, masterful dodge will be up already. I also do not have a lunge. A lunge requires a target and using energy builder on myself requires me to target myself all the time.