Quarry/Earth Energy Query

ukatoenasni · July 2012

So, in a fit of spazztastic silliness, I created a sentai-themed character (but that's not important).

So far, though, one of my biggest problems is what the heck do I do with this build?

The concept so far seems to be leaning on Quarry, with mostly ranged Earth powers for damage. The problem comes in not really being sure of what secondary stats I should be leaning on (Earth is a bizarre mix of range/melee), and how to get something that can manage it's energy better.

At 11, here's the current build (or the proposed revision anyway):

DEX/rec
Quarry; Wield Earth, Tremor, Stone Shroud, Cave In

So far this is working out solo, but I've got long-term concerns over how this is going to affect me going forward. Namely - with Quarry's buff building off INT, is it worth going DEX/int/rec instead (leaning entirely on secondary gear to buff up my Offense and Ego, plus Audacity), or should I be safe mostly ignoring it with DEX/rec/ego instead?

But that's all minor - the big one is how the heck do I manage my energy with this setup? I've considered Concentration, but I'm a) not sure that's going to help all that much and b) stacking it up has me somewhat worried given how close I usually end up. I also considered Land Slide or Thunderbolt Lunge/Molecular Self Assembly (particularly if I go the DEX/int/rec route, or DEX/int/ego).

Seriously, what do.

megaerik000 · July 2012

Id go Dex/int/con for a quarry build. Int will get you dps, dodge, and energy management. Make sure you pick up concentration, for the extra energy plus the damage. Also pickup molecular self assembly and any short cooldown power, like conviction or bountiful chi resuregencw /w adv, or maybe just the earth lunge if you like being in melee. The ego boost from Quarry will get you enough ego to boost your range damage/knocks well enough, and if you want, the fair game adv on quarry makes leveling a joke with CON ss'd.

beldin · July 2012

Earth and Energy .. *sigh*

My Earth Char is however Invuln .. and i went DEX / CON / REC with Form of the Tempest.

REC gives me at least enough Energy to cast a full charged Tremor for one-shotting henchmen,
and then i activate directy my EB to follow with Cave In. The EB with REC also seems to give
really good Energy .. i saw values around 23% i think, and i really never had to use it long,
mostly just the time between releasing the key after a charge, and pressing it again

Tried MSA with the lunge .. but that really didn't convince me :redface:

Somewhere around level 35 i finally decided to take Overdrive for endless Quicksand Spam,
and then i once again .. also took Devour Essence .. since long charges often simply suck
against mobs that knock you :redface:

ukatoenasni · July 2012

So my current options are about as limited as I expected.

Ah well.

I'm not entirely sold on INT as my only energy management stat yet (ruling DEX/int/con out - I know it's workable, and I know it's one of the go-tos lately, but INT hasn't fully sold me on the concept when I don't have a decent energy unlock elsewhere to make up efficiency).

I'll try out some test builds before I fully commit to any one plan, though. DEX/rec is working pretty well in the short-term, at least, but I'm still at the level where I can pretty well just one-shot everything I come across without taxing my bar at all (except bosses, but that's where Cave In helps).

megaerik000 · July 2012

Int is more then enough for energy management. Before you discount it, remember the energy return from concentration, and of course MSA, scales very well with int. I used to love recovery too, but it just pales in comparison to INT in nearly every way. Do yourself a favor and seriously try it before settling for rec.

kallethen · July 2012

Doesn't Quarry boost Int via Audacity stacks too?

ukatoenasni · July 2012

megaerik000 wrote: »

Int is more then enough for energy management. Before you discount it, remember the energy return from concentration, and of course MSA, scales very well with int. I used to love recovery too, but it just pales in comparison to INT in nearly every way. Do yourself a favor and seriously try it before settling for rec.

I've used it multiple times as one of my only energy management stats, and found it disappointing/wanting each and every single time. Sometimes, in combination with INT/END, which further left the same overall problems.

It's not a matter of disliking it - it's just that I've consistently had it fail on my on multiple occasions. That includes running it with MSA, as a primary stat (and multiple times as a secondary), and a number of other things (Defiance + Fuel my Fire) propping up the entire package. :U

In this specific build, the only reason I'd be taking it is for the Audacity scaling and additional help managing energy. Been down this road before and it's proven insufficient in the past (even factoring in Concentration - previous iterations have used Form of the Tempest in DEX/INT and DEX/int builds, still had overall issues).

Of course, this is all still in testing phases and if it works out I may stick with it, but my expectations are nil for INT doing enough to be my only energy management stat. Especially with one of Earth's bigger problems being energy inefficiency (30-40+ just for taps, quickly going up to 80+) to start with. There's also the caveat that I can get sufficient cost_discount just from gear at this point, and easily deep into the realm of diminishing returns in that area.

INT doesn't really impress me as much as it used to, honestly.

EDIT: Basically my issue with INT right now is that I'm having to blow build efficiency to support it. I don't have any powers (or plan to pick up any powers) that give me any additional scaling with INT, unless I pick up MSA (power tax A), and then a power that can trigger it consistently (power tax

. Before I go through all that trouble, I'm trying to find out if these really are my only options, or if there's something I missed.

As the OP lays out, I'm fully aware of what some of the basic options are - it's other ideas that are the problem. Concentration is less of a tax, because I can itemize EGO instead (and get the full benefit from it there). I have sincere doubts, however, of that being enough energy management at the end of the day (especially with Concentration being somewhat unreliable for this build, thanks to the wonky nature of Earth as a hybrid melee/ranged set; I'm fairly confident my current power list is ranged, but it also benefits way too much from being in closer range then I can freely stack Concentration from, which forces me to rely on charges as opposed to taps - which brings up it's own problems of energy management that INT doesn't help with at all).

m34nb34r2 · July 2012

I haven't tried earth, but I thought I'd chime in. Quarry almost demands that you use primary Int. It will end up giving you a total of +90 to int and ego later on, which means you really can do without superstat ego since it will hit the soft cap. If you're using quarry anyway, consider that using int means you don't have to use ego, and it will also help manage energy, and contribute to damage with quicker cycling of actives. It's not necessary to have superstat ego on a build with quarry unless you want mighty ranged knocks. You won't even need ego on your gear.

Having good energy (which I define as never having to use the energy builder) requires either having 2 stats for it, having carefully optimized gear, or being an infernal with supernatural power =P

I personally don't like having to constantly use conviction to trigger MSA on a ranged character. If on a melee, it's just bonus energy after a lunge, so that's less of a thing for me.

With power armor, one of the more energy hungry sets, I do quite fine with quarry, primary int, and secondary rec. You'll end up getting 15 per tick per stack of overdrive, so if you use maintains a lot (quicksand?), this may be the way to go. If you're using tap/charge abilities more frequently, probably the only choice is MSA, which won't be perfect for you, but is probably as good as you're going to get with earth.

I don't know though. If you really want to forget about energy concerns, it may be best to just primary stat recovery, which can superboost any energy unlock. I guess in that case you'd do rec/int/dex, and pump the int through gear enough that it keeps your ego at the soft cap through audacity. If you're more melee... I guess it will have to be rec/int/str, depending on gear for criticals.

ukatoenasni · July 2012

As indicated - if I pick up INT, it's for the Audacity stacking from Quarry. There's too much power taxing to get INT to work properly as efficient energy management to justify it, though 'light' management in addition to additional offense (via Audacity, as indicated) is enough to make it worth consideration.

Though it doesn't seem like there are any better ideas then what I had going into the project - initial tests are proving that Concentration is a bit more usable then anticipated, but still falls to the problem of requiring me to rely on charges as opposed to taps. The job gets done, just not as reliably as I'd like.

Of course, this is all factoring in more cost-discount (~110 at 25) from gear then I'm likely to have (why doesn't the Heirloom Primary Utility have a bonus? The Offense one has +Offense, the Defense one has +Defense... why not +CostDiscount for the Utility one? Or does it have a non-existant +Utility? The mind boggles!) while plowing through levels unless I do something crazy (statistically likely - this build in general is pretty crazy).

Also, rocking STR isn't a concern at the moment since most of the damage I'm doing has the Ranged tag (I checked!), which also makes the appeal of further +EGO from Audacity appealing.

The biggest hurdle here is that the primary damage set I'm using (Earth) is set up for an entirely different set of circumstances then what I'm using it for (return via Defiance or otherwise getting hit, and/or the Tank role). Thus, I don't really have an Energy Unlock I can actually rely on (unless I power-tax it and use MSA, which is not ideal and results in somewhat of a DPS loss). And I don't have the durability to feel comfortable tanking (I get enough pins-and-needles having Ruby Blades, my WotW Dual Blades dodge-DPS tank things).

Quarry/Earth Energy Query

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