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Forums > Home› Power Discussion

Stack more def or go dodge and avoid

cabgoldcabgold Posts: 7 Arc User
edited July 2012 in Power Discussion
Was thinking of making an invuln tank and wanted folks' opinion as to whether to stack for def via Energy shield with laser knight with + def in mods or go dodge avoid with parry and dodge mods?
Post edited by cabgold on

Comments

  • queenchangelingqueenchangeling Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Nothing says you can't do both. Getting dodge from gear doesn't stop you from being able to slot Energy Shield and pick up Laser Knight. In fact if you're making a dedicated 'soak' tank, Laser Knight is probably one of the best advantages you can get.
  • kanniballl2kanniballl2 Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    queenchangeling wrote: »
    Nothing says you can't do both. Getting dodge from gear doesn't stop you from being able to slot Energy Shield and pick up Laser Knight. In fact if you're making a dedicated 'soak' tank, Laser Knight is probably one of the best advantages you can get.

    In the OP's defense... he is talking about using Parry with its dodge stuff instead of laser knight... as opposed to the assumed "+def" or "+dodge | +avoid" route for gear.

    I imagine the "best choice" would boil down to your Defense and Dodge/Avoid numbers to make the judgement. But I'm not a CO number guru so even then I couldn't say which was better.


    PERSONALLY... I went Energy Shield / Phalanx advantage... and solid +Dodge | +Avoid gear with my squishy Avenger. It all helps, though I don't know if it's the optimal method.
  • lionsrevengelionsrevenge Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    i say go Laser Knight and gear for more dodge.
  • cabgoldcabgold Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    It's hard to test in power house with laser since u have to be attackng to get lasernight or parry to proc. I am just thinking that there may be diminishing returns on defense at some point versus getting Defiance with about 380 Con and then taking parry with dodge/avoid gear and getting about 55% dodge/avoid when in combat.
  • schizoslayerschizoslayer Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Elusive Monk isn't that great unless you have really high Dex (since it scales off Dex) and aren't getting dodge/avoid from somewhere else already as it adds dodge/avoid rating not a flat %.

    This means that often it's heavily into diminishing returns already and you get minimal benefit out of it compared to Laser Knight.

    The thing is: Neither are actually very good if you already have Invuln as a passive. Laser Knight and Elusive monk are more useful for offensive passive users who don't already have loads of mitigation and do have loads of damage so they won't miss 10% of it.

    Neither advantage are any use for situations in which you have to block to survive (Gravitar/Cosmics) because they only work so long as you are attacking and will prevent you taking a R3 block which vs some Cosmics and Gravitar can make a big difference.

    Stacking Dodge/avoid with Gear on an Invuln tank is a good idea but using Elusive Monk to do it is not and the benefit of Laser Knight when you have Invuln is minimal.

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  • cabgoldcabgold Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    With gear I am at about 48% dodge with parry running it is at about 53% so 5%. I already get 19% def per stack of defiance. Laser knight doesnt show how much extra defense you get when active like Parry shows dodge/avoid so its hard to know what it is worth.

    BTW my SS are Con/Dex/Str
  • piro2genpiro2gen Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    cabgold wrote: »
    With gear I am at about 48% dodge with parry running it is at about 53% so 5%. I already get 19% def per stack of defiance. Laser knight doesnt show how much extra defense you get when active like Parry shows dodge/avoid so its hard to know what it is worth.

    BTW my SS are Con/Dex/Str
    None of those shield effects (monk, knight) will add much. Its so little I wouldn't bother. Both do lower your damage output by 10%. And its in the same layer as role, so direct -10% damage.

    I'd save adv points for something else.

    Your build is probably at or around max when it goes for defense. The only other powers that may add something would be Active Defense. Lets say 2 of them and then you cycle both.
  • magitek3magitek3 Posts: 150 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    cabgold wrote: »
    With gear I am at about 48% dodge with parry running it is at about 53% so 5%. I already get 19% def per stack of defiance. Laser knight doesnt show how much extra defense you get when active like Parry shows dodge/avoid so its hard to know what it is worth.

    BTW my SS are Con/Dex/Str

    Out of curiosity, how much Con do you have to get that much resistance from Defiance?
  • cabgoldcabgold Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Dependingon gear set it is around 425 to 440. I stopped trying to focus on Con after about 375 is it takes so much more con to get from 18% to 19% - I lose alot of dmg when I bump my con up to that. Thus I usually stay around 375 at 18%.
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    385 con gives 19%.

    piro2gen wrote: »
    None of those shield effects (monk, knight) will add much. Its so little I wouldn't bother. Both do lower your damage output by 10%. And its in the same layer as role, so direct -10% damage.

    I'd save adv points for something else.

    Your build is probably at or around max when it goes for defense. The only other powers that may add something would be Active Defense. Lets say 2 of them and then you cycle both.

    I dunno. Already my dodge is at the 51% mark. However with the elusive monk, it goes up to around 57%. The dodge is nice and all ,but the bread and butter for me here is the avoidance. I go from 55% avoidance to 70%. That is a huge difference in damage mitigation, just from attacking. If you have defiance stacks untop of that, your basically a fortress.
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  • haleakalahaleakala Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    I've always considered Ebon Void /Voracious Darkness to be better than LK or Parry +Adv's. 1 rank point versus 3, and no damage debuff; it's downside is that it procs based on blocking rather than attacking. Still, if you are taking a lot of damage, the occasional block use makes sense anyway.
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  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 790 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    There's no damage debuff to Elusive Monk BTW folks, you're thinking of BCR. The Avoidance buff on Elusive Monk is very useful.

    Funny on Gravitar how many Parry attack procs I have in a single battle with her LOL!

    EDIT: Did something change? I thought Elusive Monk never debuffed your damage. How much is the debuff if true? I know Laser Knight is like 10%.
  • beldinbeldin Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    monsterdaddy wrote: »
    There's no damage debuff to Elusive Monk BTW folks, you're thinking of BCR. The Avoidance buff on Elusive Monk is very useful.

    Ellusive Monk and Laser Knight both have a 10% damage malus.
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  • riggsmaxriggsmax Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Parry by itself isnt much.

    Parry with other dodge powers adds up. I can get a Invulnerability/Defiance build with Dex as a secondary SS up to a 101% dodge - parry being 5-6% of that total.

    Laser Knight defense will run up into diminishing returns if Defiance is being used, as the example above 19% per stack = 152% Add in Base defense from gear/specs (which on a tank should be at least 35-40% or so, so adding in Laser Knight to that total will be something like 335% instead of 290% - a difference of 30% damage taken vs 33-34% damage taken. Against anything less than Gravitar it becomes pretty small - but I have no advice for Gravitar otherwise.

    And as said - Both reduce damage, which can be an issue. However getting a high dodge (Thundering Kicks, Crashing Wave Kick, Parry + Evasive Maneuvers) can mean a perma 75% reduction or so on top of that 34%, so a reliable (unless held/stunned/not attacking) total reduction to 8-9% - before blocking. A well timed block could reduce that to 3% say.
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