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PTS Update FC.28.20120525.0

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Ryko_Nailo wrote:
    Wait... ATs were better then freeforms? My whole world view has been shatered!

    Seriously - ATs have a different diminishing returns scale (or none at all) on damage buff stacking than Freeforms do.

    Go make an AT that has some kind of offensive passive on (the melee blade set I think has it, or other melee ones do). Go make the exact same character as Freeform.

    Where the Freeform starts to see diminishing returns due to you stacking an offensive passive with superstats and spec trees and everything else, the AT won't. Or sees it on a different scale than a Freeform does.

    This bug might've been fixed with On Alert, but AFAIK, nobody here has tested it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    i didn't see any new powers in the ATs so i dun think it's in this build.
    :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Seriously - ATs have a different diminishing returns scale (or none at all) on damage buff stacking than Freeforms do.

    Go make an AT that has some kind of offensive passive on (the melee blade set I think has it, or other melee ones do). Go make the exact same character as Freeform.

    Where the Freeform starts to see diminishing returns due to you stacking an offensive passive with superstats and spec trees and everything else, the AT won't. Or sees it on a different scale than a Freeform does.

    This bug might've been fixed with On Alert, but AFAIK, nobody here has tested it.

    wait, so you haven't checked b4 complaining?

    I can get 13k crits on my impulse, but that's just on test dummies and purp gear and all.
    I can get way more than 13k crits on an FF.....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Jaybezz wrote:
    What if the taunt animation had a 10% slow effect to the PvP target?

    Protector's spec Unrelenting
    nuff said.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Kien. wrote:
    Protector's spec Unrelenting
    nuff said.

    I don't know why melee lost it's CC in favor of spec tree.. i'd forseen a small issue then and now it seems like it's worse than I'd thought.

    CC is in hella disarray and the only result is Ranged (+Ascension) > all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Scrizz wrote:
    wait, so you haven't checked b4 complaining?

    Because it was a bug that was around for months without being fixed? There's quite a few long-standing bugs still around in CO, incase you've forgotten. Wouldn't surprise me at all if this one was still here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Scrizz wrote:
    wait, so you haven't checked b4 complaining?

    I can get 13k crits on my impulse, but that's just on test dummies and purp gear and all.
    I can get way more than 13k crits on an FF.....

    I've done some informal testing. Not at 40, but I can get higher numbers with a Blade than with a Freeform using Single Blade.

    Of course, I haven't played said Blade in a few weeks, so I'm not sure if the current PTS build can still replicate it.

    Blade, Fist and Unleashed are about the only ones where it's really noticeable, though. (Offensive passive + toggle in Brawler Role with offense boosting specs and Str as a superstat).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    ATs are not affected by diminishing returns afaik, also. there was a thread about this specifically a while back. Keep in mind that ATs are locked on specs while FFs are not, so that thread may not be as viable as before due to on alert... but still worth a look.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    [Deleted.]
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Radia wrote:
    Unleashed Archetype/Freeform

    Strength: 200 (+17%)
    Dexterity: 392 (+40%)
    Recovery: 68 (+8.1%)
    Offense: 313.6 (+37%)
    Form of the Tempest: (8 * 15%)
    Unstoppable: (107%)
    Melee Damage Role

    Rank 3 Dragon's Wrath

    Freeform: 1977-4215
    Archetype: 2614-5573

    A slight 32% damage increase from FF to AT. Barely notice it. :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    I realy like the changes so far but I think some of those things can still be working better,

    - Manipulator : Should at least work with more types of control powers (holds, roots maybe), right now maintained or charged paralysis makes it very hard to build stacks of that power, but the idea of controlling big bosses and other ennemies for longer is cool.

    - Ice : Realy needs a Energy unlock beside from Shatter, or at least Shatter should get reviewed and get extra energy from a particuly stat, EGO or END maybe?

    - Aspect of the Beastial : Nice changes, but it should get acces to the same advantages as Enrage the toggle. It is possible to get acces to Giant Growth and Andrenal Rush with Aspect of the Beastial but it requieres the player to take both toggle to actualy make use of those advantages.
    Also the energy regeneration on those toggle are pretty unnescessary, sinds both SN builds and Brick builds already get acces to powerfull version of energy return mechanics (Defiant, Unstoppable, SN power).

    - Aura of Ebon Destruction : I realy like the idea of dealing a fixed ammount of damage when you crit, but it still miss something. I think Ebon Destruction could still get a little tweak. But overall the change on it is welcomed.

    I think the way powers are build on PTS right now is a step closer toa good game balance. Nice job Devs!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Archetypes

    -All archetypes have had their power schedule adjusted. They all recieve an additional new

    Yeah, that was the only solution that i could imagine, since else you had to take away one power
    from the ATs that don't have any Form at the moment.


    Roadwulf wrote:
    Gonna repeat my wishes after it was ignored last time:

    Please change Aspect of the Infernal's Concentration Stacks to scale with Constitution or Recovery, instead of INT or EGO like the regular Concentration.

    It will save alot of grief for Infernals to not have to do yet another re-spec/gear.
    I've given up fighting the change to the skill, just make the skill conversion as fluid as possible.

    I support that. At least switch INT against Con or Rec, since Infernals normally don't use INT.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Looking good so far, looking good. I'm really excited to have all this on Live. One question though: Is there a list or schedule of the upcoming framework reviews still available?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Looking good so far, looking good. I'm really excited to have all this on Live. One question though: Is there a list or schedule of the upcoming framework reviews still available?

    As of June 2011's SOTG:
    The power review schedule currently looks like this: Unarmed, Infernal, Power Armor, Celestial, Dual Blades, and then Claws.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Thx. :)

    Interesting, I wasn't aware that Dual Blades needed a review, but who am I to judge?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Thx. :)

    Interesting, I wasn't aware that Dual Blades needed a review, but who am I to judge?

    Yeah .. i always wondered about that also, since Dual Blades is one of the best rounded sets for me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Radia wrote:
    Unleashed Archetype/Freeform

    Strength: 200 (+17%)
    Dexterity: 392 (+40%)
    Recovery: 68 (+8.1%)
    Offense: 313.6 (+37%)
    Form of the Tempest: (8 * 15%)
    Unstoppable: (107%)
    Melee Damage Role

    Rank 3 Dragon's Wrath

    Freeform: 1977-4215
    Archetype: 2614-5573

    Assuming this was just tested with today's build, it seems that no, this bug has not been squashed.

    BUG: ATs are STILL not properly affected by diminishing returns like Freeform characters are. This bug will only get multiplied and made more obvious when every one of them gets access to some sort of Form come next patch.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Hey since we have laser sword powers , why not give them to the unleashed now ?

    /trollface
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Reconstruction Circuits:
    • Not marked as a Chest Slot on the skill or Tooltip
    • There is currently no icon on the status bar that this skill is currently active
    • There is no readable place that shows how long this power lasts.
    • Does it scale with SS or just Presence/Bonus Healing?
    • It needs a new FX to fit more with a technological theme. I figure the BCR FX is just a placeholder, but in case its not.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Bug: Quarry's icon isn't displayed in Avenger role.

    Haven't tried in Guardian, but the bug's present on Live too. For quite some time now as well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Assuming this was just tested with today's build, it seems that no, this bug has not been squashed.

    BUG: ATs are STILL not properly affected by diminishing returns like Freeform characters are. This bug will only get multiplied and made more obvious when every one of them gets access to some sort of Form come next patch.

    As a lifetime subber, and I think I speak for all of us that pay for Gold membership. This bug needs squishing asap as we're being punished for supporting Cryptic by paying for our access to FF.

    If that came off as brash, I do apologize, but Cryptic please fix this. Either make ATs subject to the diminishing returns or remove the diminishing returns from FF. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Hey guys, we know many of you have been wondering about ATs and what will happen to them as a part of this review. I am here to provide you guys the news! Keep the feedback coming!

    Archetypes

    -All archetypes have had their power schedule adjusted. They all recieve an additional new power.
    -Archetypes now recieve powers at 21,25,30,35, and 40 instead of 22,27,32, and 40.
    -All Archetypes now get a Form at 14.
    -All block replacer powers have been moved to 21.
    -Some archetype were restructured slightly. Please go see the trainer to see your new power schedule.

    Good idea. The only way to squeeze in a toggle and still keep them competitive.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Yukitsuki wrote:
    A slight 32% damage increase from FF to AT. Barely notice it. :rolleyes:

    Thse numbers are the difference between 9-10k and 15k crits, critical hits are multiplicative. The same is for ALL Archtypes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Beldin2 wrote:
    Yeah, that was the only solution that i could imagine, since else you had to take away one power
    from the ATs that don't have any Form at the moment.

    They aren't taking away any powers, every AT gets a form, for ones that already have a form, they get a new power.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Assuming this was just tested with today's build, it seems that no, this bug has not been squashed.

    BUG: ATs are STILL not properly affected by diminishing returns like Freeform characters are. This bug will only get multiplied and made more obvious when every one of them gets access to some sort of Form come next patch.

    EDIT: Original thread is here: http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=138931
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    This was bugging me for some time in the back of my head; Out of all the new forms; "Manipulator" sounds like the name of a villain power.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    This was bugging me for some time in the back of my head; Out of all the new forms; "Manipulator" sounds like the name of a villain power.

    Maybe, but 'Reasonably Good Convincer' is too long for the tooltip. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    This was bugging me for some time in the back of my head; Out of all the new forms; "Manipulator" sounds like the name of a villain power.

    The ability to slaughter your foes while they can't fight back is rather villainous, no?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Strypewolf wrote:
    As a lifetime subber, and I think I speak for all of us that pay for Gold membership. This bug needs squishing asap as we're being punished for supporting Cryptic by paying for our access to FF.

    If that came off as brash, I do apologize, but Cryptic please fix this. Either make ATs subject to the diminishing returns or remove the diminishing returns from FF. :)

    they should remove it ha! ;):D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    This was bugging me for some time in the back of my head; Out of all the new forms; "Manipulator" sounds like the name of a villain power.

    Nomenclature matters.

    I've been calling the Toggle "Manipulation" and the stack "influence"

    If the power itself is in mentalist tree.. I was thinking "Brainwash" or "Persuasion".. I still like "influence" tho.. I don't really think the devs would mind a change or suggestion.

    I DO hope they play as a controller a few times and see where the toggle fails.


    <50% is a low number by itself.. you can get 50% (bugged) from PRE specialization tree itself. A 8 stacked toggle that does as much as 2 spec points seems weak..

    I can't say it's under or overpowered because there is a severe lack of uniformity on how hold time/magnitude is calculated. Not to mention the many different types of holds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Have any decisions been made on which toggles the Mind AT will be getting? You could make a case case for either Manipulator or Compassion. Do us all a favor and make it a choice for the Mind. Also, I can't remember if you stated you were going to add giant growth to the other toggles or not, but i imagine plenty of Savages that would like to have it. Personally, i would like to see enrage as a choice for Savages, as they have enough knocks to make it work.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    BUG: Targeting Computer's Lock On does not buff severity on its target.
    I tested it on a lv30 dummy and Kiga.
    I used Sniper Rifle as the test power because it does not have a damage variance, and Quarry vs Target Computer as passives because they buff for the same amount(75%). On the dummy, Sniper Rifle crit for 11251 with both passives. I made sure Lock On was... locked on... and didn't have any stacks of Audacity. Tested it on Kiga with the same result of 10313 crit with both passives.


    Can't think of a way to test the crit chance part of lock on, so i just hope that that part works. And i would need a second person to test the damage resistance part in an accurate way :(
    This would be the perfect opportunity to fix/change/buff Targeting Computer.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    I submitted a ticket on this but:

    Bug:
    Black Talon Become Device (May be all Becomes, have not checked)

    BT Become is cancelling Gear on you and acting as though it is not there. Because of this, your Defense as the Become is a puny 10% Damage resistance, making its usefulness NILL as you die to even the most common enemies.

    Becomes also have no Specs of their own, and are ignoring any Spec Tree choices you make, removing them from you entirely.

    I know it is actually ignoring gear, because my Armadillo Defense boost also disapeered after transformation.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Please tell me PA melee is going to get a finisher at least. It's the only thing I see missing from the new laser sword powers that allows free forms to create a solid build. We really don't need 2 AoEs btw.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Interesting. Might have to try out Archetypes more. They make leveling a little less stressful :P
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Sentinal Aura decreased by 70% Geez this power wasnt OP at all even in Live and now you want to go and reduce it to a point of it being not even worth getting? Bad form Cryptic. Bad Form!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Maybe, but 'Reasonably Good Convincer' is too long for the tooltip. :D
    Hahahha, true that.
    Dr.Sage wrote:
    The ability to slaughter your foes while they can't fight back is rather villainous, no?
    Agreed, just felt off compared to the other generic form buffs: Compassion/Enrage & Concentration/Focus. Manipulator being either more villainous or better used for an Archetype class.

    Maybe something like "Discipline" would be a better fitting name and would match better with the other types. I could see myself holistically casting a Discipline power, gaining stacks of Discipline. Or taking on a Disciplined stance.

    As opposed to casting Manipulator. I could be a Manipulator, but I don't see myself using "Manipulator" as a power... and gaining stacks of "Manipulation" makes it feel like a debuff rather than a buff.
    Jaybezz wrote:
    Nomenclature matters.

    I've been calling the Toggle "Manipulation" and the stack "influence"

    If the power itself is in mentalist tree.. I was thinking "Brainwash" or "Persuasion".. I still like "influence" tho.. I don't really think the devs would mind a change or suggestion.

    Influence might work too. :) Thanks for supporting nomenclature.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    wolfboy1 wrote:
    Sentinal Aura decreased by 70% Geez this power wasnt OP at all even in Live and now you want to go and reduce it to a point of it being not even worth getting? Bad form Cryptic. Bad Form!

    Actually it was.

    People who geared toward Bonus Healing/Presence were getting 1200+ Heal Ticks.

    But the 70% was a bit extreme.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Roadwulf wrote:
    Actually it was.

    People who geared toward Bonus Healing/Presence were getting 1200+ Heal Ticks.

    But the 70% was a bit extreme.

    Well then I think they could have made it so that the aura itself cannot interact with presence or bonus healing items. I don't know how hard that would be but nerfing it into the ground was certainly not the way to go about it!

    Though in looking at it another way..if you were slotting it for PRE/Bonus Healing then you obviously are a support toon and a HEALER...which should be allowed to get 1200..which all things considered is not THAT high of a number considering they are probably not doing very high damage. Against a cosmic it wouldn't matter all that much since they hit harder then that unless your geared for defense.

    All in all, yes...70% is extreme and now I doubt anyone will take it for the pittance it will give back. Those people who took the PRE/Bonus Healing will now have ticks of probably slightly less then what the aura gave back unbuffed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    wolfboy1 wrote:
    Well then I think they could have made it so that the aura itself cannot interact with presence or bonus healing items. I don't know how hard that would be but nerfing it into the ground was certainly not the way to go about it!

    Though in looking at it another way..if you were slotting it for PRE/Bonus Healing then you obviously are a support toon and a HEALER...which should be allowed to get 1200..which all things considered is not THAT high of a number considering they are probably not doing very high damage. Against a cosmic it wouldn't matter all that much since they hit harder then that unless your geared for defense.

    All in all, yes...70% is extreme and now I doubt anyone will take it for the pittance it will give back. Those people who took the PRE/Bonus Healing will now have ticks of probably slightly less then what the aura gave back unbuffed.

    70% is extreme, but I think in this case extreme may have been warranted. It could possibly stand to get a bit of it's power back though - possibly up to 50% reduction from original numbers.

    It used to be worth taking the sentinel tree just to get the aura - and then throw the rest of the points to where ever. That's too much. Right now, it's no longer worth giving up the whole 10 points just for the aura, but If you pick the sentinel tree and plan to work as a healer, I think it's still pretty much a no-brainer to rank up sentinel aura.

    It doesn't work as the primary healing function very well anymore, but it was never meant to do that to begin with - the purpose of spec trees is not to complitely obsolate powers. It's still ok for healing the odd 'splash damage' so that in a team you don't need to constantly divert your attention to heal little bruises. And spread across 5 characters it's still actually decent overall numbers for just a few spec points.

    So while it hurts to have lost something that was obviously too good to be right, I don't think it's nerfed to oblivion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Oh, by the way I dont see anything regarding the power armor changes on the release notes. I guess they are not releasing it to the live servers yet?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    BUG : "Enrage Buff"damage strength bonus doesn't apply on bleeding damage on PTS while it does on Live.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Roadwulf wrote:
    Actually it was.

    People who geared toward Bonus Healing/Presence were getting 1200+ Heal Ticks.

    But the 70% was a bit extreme.
    Yup it was indeed OP.

    Actually I was getting figures like 1100 per tick with 230 Pre and no bonus healing gear.

    Now Pre's well over 300 and I've got a drop of bonus healing gear it's dialed to 'your bullets cannot harm us my aura is like a shield of pure heal'. An SS Pre tank can nearly hit the 1k mark (maybe more using hybrid and bulwark to tank), that's not comparable to the rest of the spec tree powers, that's comparable to Defensive/support Passives. The real issue is that it should never have gone live that powerful.

    My Main char, a healer build, has fired off a total of 10 heals and 1 bubble since On Alert because I just don't need to my aura deals with that, I've ended up running her in avenger (switching off AoRP) because the extra DPS is more useful than hanging around waiting to possibly heal players.

    It needs 50% reduction as a bare minimum, 70% is a shade harder than I'd like but it'll cope with it and still be a very effective Spec Tree option.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Roadwulf wrote:
    Actually it was.

    People who geared toward Bonus Healing/Presence were getting 1200+ Heal Ticks.

    But the 70% was a bit extreme.

    Sentinel Aura was a bit too extreme to begin with. Even without trying hard, I was getting 695 ticks with my Celestial character. That character stop dropping Circle of Primal Dominion during most fights. Think about it. A passive aura ability displaced the use Rank 3 Framework Power. And it affected the entire team as well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Quick test of AT damage bug on PTS with Tempest AT. Here's how I tested:
    1. Created two characters, one a tempest AT, the other a freeform.
    2. Level both to 40 with the debugger, then, on the freeform, swap Chain Lightning for Lightning Arc and choose the Tempest Innate Talent. Also put the freeform one in Range Damage role to match. At this point both characters appear to be identical. I call this stage "Base".
    3. Pick up the three superstats End/Rec/Ego for both characters. Let's call this stage "Superstats".
    4. Slot Electric Form.
    5. Activate Electric Sheath.

    Reporting the upper end of the tooltip damage for Lightning Arc:

    Base: 332 AT, 332 FF
    Superstats: 461 AT, 458 FF
    Electric Form: 553 AT, 542 FF
    Electric Sheath: 674 AT, 645 FF

    After realizing I could "Remove Free" stat choices independently on the AT (thus leaving me with no stats, only powers), it's already off with just the Ranged Damage buff + the stars buff:

    Lightning Arc R1 is 332 each way, as I said before, but Gigabolt R3: 1929 (AT) vs 1928 (FF).
    Lightning Arc R1 w/ Electric Form R3: 406 (AT) vs 405 (FF)
    Lightning Arc R1 + Elec Form R1 + Elec Sheath R1: 504 (AT) vs 498 (FF)
    Lightning Arc R1 + Elec Sheath R1: 453 (AT) vs 451 (FF)

    It appears as you add buffs from different sources that discrepancy gets larger.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    So it looks like the Impulse AT was gimped with IDF, no choice between IDF/Concentration as was requested.

    It's a good thing I'm a gold player. If I had paid money to unlock that AT I'd want my freaking money back.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Ambrecombe wrote:
    BUG : "Enrage Buff"damage strength bonus doesn't apply on bleeding damage on PTS while it does on Live.

    This is because DoTs like Bleeds, Pestilence, and Poison are untagged, Focus boosts bleed damage, however Enrage should do so aswell, otherwise Bleeds should be tagged as melee. (Which would probably be an appropriate buff to them)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    This is because DoTs like Bleeds, Pestilence, and Poison are untagged, Focus boosts bleed damage, however Enrage should do so aswell, otherwise Bleeds should be tagged as melee. (Which would probably be an appropriate buff to them)

    Not so sure about flagging Bleeds as melee. I suppose it would be OK if SMG was modified accordingly.
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