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FC.31.20221116.11 - Misc Power Changes
kaiserin
Posts: 3,090 Cryptic Developer
Weapon Variant Device
Frost Ice Rifle
Powers
Ice Structures
Ice Burst
Shatter
Avalanche
Ice Barrier
Misc
Nova Flare
Flamethrower
Two Gun Mojo
Thrash
Devour Essence
Fireball
Specializations
FC.31.20221116.11
Epidemic
Pestilence
Shatter
Ice Cage
Ice Burst
Snow Storm
Thrash/Devour Essence
Frost Ice Rifle
Archetypes
The Glacier
New Progression Path
Protector, Overseer
Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens
Please format any suggestions you have in the following format:
Suggestion
Your suggestion
Frost Ice Rifle
- Assault Rifle Weapon Variant
- Deals cold damage.
- Deals additional damage based on Chill stacks.
- Chance to Chill targets.
- Chance to Shatter Ice Structures on a full maintain.
Powers
Ice Structures
- Corrected Shatter damage scaling on Ice Cage structures. They will scale much better with player stats now.
- Fixed a bug where they did not always deal detonation damage.
- Reduced dot damage on Ice Cage, and the damage can no longer crit, but dot damage can now affect root immune targets.
- When the root of an Ice Cage expires, it no longer expires the Ice Structure.
Ice Burst
- Reduced initial damage.
- Increased detonation damage.
- Now Knocks targets up instead of back.
- Reduced cooldown to 20 seconds (from 30).
- Chance too apply Chilled to nearby targets while active.
- Freeze, Dirtbag Advantage: Paralyze is now delayed by 2 sec. Now stuns secondary targets.
- New Advantage (2): Chance to apply additional Ice Cages to nearby targets while active.
Shatter
- Detonation damage now increases if higher ranked Ice Cages are created.
- You must now hit a target for the detonation effect to take place.
Avalanche
- Serrated Shards Adv: Changed to deal increased damage to targets trapped in Ice Cages.
Ice Barrier
- Increased health of barriers per rank.
- Increased detonation damage.
Misc
- Fixed a bug where some breakout damage could be dodged.
Nova Flare
- Increased radius to 10ft.
- New Advantage (1): Applies break free damage.
Flamethrower
- New Advantage (2): Applies Unstable Accelerant.
- New Advantage (2): Increases damage every time you fully maintain the power.
Two Gun Mojo
- New Advantage (2): Increases damage every time you fully maintain the power.
Thrash
- Moved to Tier1.
- Corrected power costs. Cost has increased.
- Reduced damage.
- Increased healing value.
- Fixed a bug where the healing on this power could be higher than intended when affected by Deep Wound.
- This power now scales based on the number of Wounds on the target instead of just Bleeds.
- Festering Adv: Fixed a bug where this effect was not applying properly.
- New Advantage (3): Increases the damage of the power the more you maintain it if you are above half health, but no longer heals if you are above half health. If you drop below half, damage bonuses are removed and the healing effect returns.
- New Advantage (2): Chance to apply Bleed over time.
Devour Essence
- Corrected power costs. Cost has increased.
- Reduced damage.
- New Advantage (3): Increases the damage of the power the more you maintain it if you are above half health, but no longer heals if you are above half health. If you drop below half, damage bonuses are removed and the healing effect returns.
- New Advantage (2): Chance to apply Poison over time.
Fireball
- Charged Attack adv: Added additional electrical damage.
Specializations
- Unrelenting no longer overrides your movement speed. Now makes you immune to the Snare effect.
FC.31.20221116.11
Epidemic
- New Advantage (2): Increases the effectiveness of the Toxic res debuff on Pestilence while you maintain this power.
Pestilence
- Fixed a bug where the Slashing resistance debuff on this power was not working properly.
Shatter
- Removed Nailed to the Ground advantage.
Ice Cage
- Added Nailed to the Ground advantage.
Ice Burst
- Added Nailed to the Ground advantage.
Snow Storm
- Corrected damage to activation values.
- Increased activation time to 1 sec (from 0.83)
- Reduced chance to apply Chill for R1, but increases chance with rank now.
- Added Perception debuff while maintaing the power.
- Removed ability to extend the duration of the power.
- New Advantage (2): Applies Hard Frost when fully maintained.
- New Advantage (2): Paralyzes targets when fully maintained.
Thrash/Devour Essence
- Fixed an issue with the advantage damage scaling.
Frost Ice Rifle
- Updated sound.
Archetypes
The Glacier
New Progression Path
Protector, Overseer
- 6: Ice Cage OR Wall of Ice
- 14: Chilled Form
- 17: Shatter
- 25: Icy Embrace
- 30: Ice Barrier OR Unbreakable
- 35: Ice Burt OR Ice Sheath
Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens
BBCode: [color="#ff0000"]Bug Where it happens What happens[/color] HTML: <font color="#ff0000">Bug Where it happens What happens</font>
Please format any suggestions you have in the following format:
Suggestion
Your suggestion
BBCode: [color="#4a86e8"]Suggestion Your suggestion[/color] HTML: <font color="#4a86e8">Suggestion Your suggestion</font>
Post edited by kaiserin#0958 on
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Comments
Your suggestion: Cryogenic Burst - Applies Restoration to self.
Ice only has one terrible way to apply Restoration and that's via Vapour Form which is on an over 1 min CD.
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Still though, really solid changes
Doesn't this spec already make you immune to snare effect? So what does putting a second spec point into this skill even do?
Bug: There is an audio bug with the power! The sound effect will linger for 2-3 seconds after you stop using the power even when there are no visuals on screen
I have been looking forward for this even since I saw screenshots of the pre-alert old power replacement
Aesthetically its so cool, it's like an Ice Grenade launcher 💙
This is basically perfect addition for an already used Ice-Shatter DPS build for single target!
Bug: It appears if you tap spam/activate Frost Ice Rifle too many times it will lost both it's visual and sounds effects (GIF below demonstrate it)/b]
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! The knock and the CD made this power obnoxious
Still needs more utility ADV to make more use of it!
I SECOND THIS, Please give ice more restoration options
as well as more Ice Debuff powers
Horrible timing for me to use free retcon to revamp my Munition and Archery builds
Suggestion: Please give the same ADV on Assault Riffle
There is also the issue that Assault Riffle Furious buff adv suffers because Furious is 12 seconds and not 15 it sabotages Assault Riffle's rotation! VERY GOOD ADDITION FOR ELEMENTALIST!
Ice (and WIND or the lack of it) Need desperately more sources to apply Hard Frost beyond 1 single power (and a device from Kiga)
What if you want to make Frost Ice Rifle theme build but don't want to use Ice Blast to apply the debuff? It crashes with your aesthetic
Honestly I support this!
Making Ice wall functions as ice debuff like a counterpart to Fire Snake would be the best possible way!
The only way I can think this won't happen is because Shatter AOE DPS can be already so high and would be overpowered
Very good DPS alternatives, those 3 point advs are worth every point!
It's almost scary how much Potential damage this set up can do
FC.31.20221116.11
Epidemic
Pestilence
Shatter
Ice Cage
Ice Burst
Snow Storm
Thrash/Devour Essence
Frost Ice Rifle
Archetypes
The Glacier
New Progression Path
Protector, Overseer
- 6: Ice Cage OR Wall of Ice
- 14: Chilled Form
- 17: Shatter
- 25: Icy Embrace
- 30: Ice Barrier OR Unbreakable
- 35: Ice Burt OR Ice Sheath
EDIT: while you are looking at ice powers, can you rearrange some things in Glacier AT's choices:
current:
25: Shatter or Icy Embrace
30: Unbreakable
35: Ice Burst or Ice Barrier
proposed:
25: Shatter or Ice Burst
30: Icy Embrace
35: Unbreakable or Ice Barrier
This way we always get the EU, and the choices make more sense. Its kind of weird to have to decide between a strong AOE skill in shatter vs an energy unlock. 35 also made no sense in taking a second AD. Or maybe the whole thing could be looked at to make sense with how the powers work now, I haven't really tried them out.
Considering Infernal Supernatural doesn't even have any other melee powers, and both Devour Essence and Thrash are already significantly outperformed by any intended, traditional melee setup, the baseline nerf to their damages seems... completely pointless, since both were more leveling utilities and healing utilities to begin with. But let's pretend it's absolutely necessary that their damage be slashed and a 3-point adv be put in as a "save" for people still wanting to use them for damage; there's one massive problem I see here: AoE damage as early as the mid-game brings DPSes below half-health constantly, stretching from there into the endgame, and in both the late-game and endgame, tanks will drop below half health almost constantly while doing their job correctly, simply because the game is balanced around everything killing fast and dying fast. Healers themselves have no reason to or interest in taking Devour Essence for damage output, and not for healing either since Essence/Soul/Mind Drain do the exact same thing while healing friendlies as well. The only builds that even remotely stand to benefit from this three-point advantage are con-stacked DPSes and hybrids, who themselves aren't even going to use it, ever, because they built for con-stacked DPS specifically to not die at the cost of actual damage output, and tend to go extremely heavy on self-heals and self-rezzes at further cost to their damage output. Losing out on ~250 points of healing per second (if not much more) in exchange for, for them at least, what might only be that much extra damage per second, is something they wouldn't remotely care for. Outside of a sense of novelty which won't even last more than a week or two, this adv is only targeted towards a narrow band of players who themselves won't take it because it goes against their doctrine of play, which clearly isn't the intent here with how many different effects are plugged into this one adv.
Suggestion: change the fundamental balancing of this adv. Completely remove the base healing effect of both powers entirely when this adv is taken, remove the stack loss at 50% health, slightly increase the damage bonus from 22% to 25% (66% to 75% total), rework the energy cost nerf to be 12% per stack (or 36% total) instead of 30% at all times and apply a minor penalty to the cost of other powers as well 4% per stack, or 12% total.) This way, the intended effect of converting Devour Essence and Thrash from healing utilities for melee DPSes and melee hybrids to proper damage-dealing powers despite the nerf to their base damage is fully delivered on, while further emphasizing the "ramp-up" nature of this adv and allowing melee DPSes and tanks to actually make use of the adv past the mid-game, where incoming damage becomes so heavy that even through R3 blocking and active defenses, dropping below 50% health is guaranteed and often "once every few seconds" common enough to prevent building stacks entirely, which makes taking the current version of this adv pointless.
... Also, Assault Rifle needs the adv that Two Gun Mojo and Flamethrower are getting, at the bare minimum. And a lot of other maintains could honestly use the same. Please. Pretty please.
(Reposted because the forums are apparently imploding in on themselves again.)
Also could you stop saying "corrected X" when describing what you have done to change a power. It conveys no information. If you reduced a value say so, if you increased it say so. Also the idea that your changes are "correct" sounds very arrogant, especially on values just being presented for testing.
Ice powerframe needs it and its the perfect CD wise power to get it
Now the Hard Frost debuff is a welcome addition but now it creates a Flow-Rotation issue for ice dps without ice blast because the debuff applies only on fully maintenance instead of Tap like Ice blast!
There is no Hard Frost debuff refresher
Suggestion: Create a Hard Frost debuff refresh for Hard Frost
Similar with the way Fire and Electricity have respectful refreshers utilities for their respective Debuffs
That adv would be useful for Wall of Ice, Ice Cage and Ice Burst
Perhaps have it a secondary utility too to refresh and knock down the target like Thunderstike's Strike Down ADV for better utilities
Huh, well that almost 5000 critical per tick was too good to be true
Please put it back to protector-guardian. Overseer isn't a tank spec. Extending the healing rune from ice barrier is dubious value compared to what guardian offers.
Ice changes; nice, but ice structure shattering is still meh for DPS. Snow Storm being isolated to its maintain brings it in line with other AoEs, but makes it not very different to simply taking Avalanche. Suppose advantages make up the difference. Ice Burst is a nice little tap aoe, could be useful for a CC with no Psionic Accelerator. Please add a Hard Frost refresh on another power, though. Ice still has no option to do that and thus are forced to always take Ice Blast still.
Nova Flare is a nice change, would be nicer if it was 15ft so it could be an actual AoE heal contender--but at least it isn't stuck as a group huddle aoe now.
Maintain advantages; glad that you made the [refresh on partial maintain] come out much faster, it basically wasn't worth taking on Relentless Pursuit because stacks would always drop from needing to block for extended periods and thus a pure DPS loss. That being said though, perhaps change the stack conditions to require less time, or make it 12-15 second duration, because a lot of things die before you can fully maintain, and if you're fighting something that doesn't, chances are it requires prolonged block times which threaten stacks in general. As is this seems like it's geared towards non-cosmic boss fights, which... the whole game doesn't play only alerts, y'know.
Devour Essence and Thrash; I'll say it immediately, remove the dropped stacks penalty of falling below 50% HP. If you don't want the healing associated with the damage, simply remove the healing component entirely when taking the advantages. People obsessively take other means of sustain regardless, not having the heal on this power would change very little for them--I wager they wouldn't even take this advantage if they sought the power for its healing component. Moreover, this is something a tank wouldn't take at all, because their health is constantly under 50% and this is a 3 point advantage, meaning they can't take it with Challenge unless that's the only damage increase they take. The energy cost change is less severe than I thought it'd be; in fact, activation cost was decreased, which was peculiar to me seeing as it's denoted as increased, but regardless, these are still powers that basically won't be viable without Supernatural Power. The damage nerf was absolutely unnecessary, these weren't high damage to begin with. They had enough to not be left in the dust by every other melee option, but they were, by no means, leading the race, and the heal wasn't anything game-breaking. In a majority of cases, it isn't going to keep a DPS alive if they're being targeted nor if they choose to ignore wireframe mechanics unless they deliberately take away from their damage to be more tanky. Tanks weren't going to stay alive with it either; I can promise you that I haven't been able to in all my experience using it on my first geared tank. The point has also already been made as to why Supports wouldn't take it for the heal either. All in all: Pointless nerf.
Fireball, Epidemic, Pestilence; nice.
Glacier update; By far the worst change. This was an opportunity to make it properly kitted to tank, but instead it was stripped of something that helped it tank despite poor conditions while being left in said poor conditions. Pray tell, what exactly is Overseer supposed to do for The Glacier? Crit? It's Con Ego/End, there's no crit on it and your slots are going to Confronts. Blast damage? Ice Blast might be one of the stronger blasts but increasing its damage is something that an Ice character consistently needs Cold Snap for, a measely 9% isn't gonna cut it. Extended rune? What, for the Ice Barrier that you might not even take over Unbreakable, that heals a papercut when you're getting lacerated? Honor? For what heal? Trapped? This is the only viable thing in the whole tree aside from Preservation (which isn't super beneficial anyway considering how much of Glacier is AoE) and even then it's only guaranteed if you take Ice Cage. Modified Gear? Dump spec rendered useless if you take Threat gloves (which you'll need as Glacier because your highest damage is a blast or aoe). Guardian is way better for Glacier, please don't go through with that change, they have a hard enough time tanking, Overseer is a nerf to something that's hardly viable as is. To add on that, if you're going to touch up on the Glacier, would you please just give it Icicle Spear? Giving any kit the possibility of having 4 different AoEs is just absurd when it has no proper main damage. And no, Shatter is not a proper main damage. Especially with no Cold Snap.
It's nice to see powers getting attention again, it's what a lot of players are starving for, but could it not be in such a fashion that makes less options viable? We want to be able to take more powers seriously for content, not change what ones we can and what we can't.
So, tank ATs in general are in a bad state, with the questionable exception of Rockstar (which is in a good place outside of lacking an Interrupt, which no tank AT has except for, whaddya know: Glacier.)
Old/current Glacier can only really make due with Ice Blast or Avalanche for aggro on heavy targets like bosses and Cosmics, and then has Frost Breath for grabbing groups (since 15' spheres (Snow Storm, Avalanche) really aren't good for AoE at all unless someone's using a power like Whirlpool, Sword Cyclone or similar to group enemies for you, which doesn't do anything to knock+pull immune enemies.) Being Con/End/Ego, its survivability is middling by tank standards, heavily reliant on Guardian/Protector to keep it alive against anything that hits even remotely hard, and without AoRP+AoPM or full Distinguished+Onslaught/similar in R7+ cannot even take a single non-crit dino bite through R3 block, let alone a crit dino bite. This, as you'll see, repeats itself a lot throughout the tank lineup. Invulnerability makes it not as good against bosses but better against crowds, but then its only crowd option is Frost Breath, due to how energy-heavy Shatter is (bad for a tank, plus requires Frost Breath setup for good damage/aggro anyways) and how small Snow Storm and Avalanche are, as 15' spheres. Additionally, half of its powers are needless. While Ice Cage is great in making it the only pure AT tank capable of dog-walking, there's no reason to take Snow Storm over Frost Breath, no reason to take Shatter over Icy Embrace, and no reason to take Ice Barrier over Ice Burst when you get Unbreakable the immediate power prior. Being a ranged tank, it is at least in a good position, in a literal positioning sense, but is, as most of the AT tanks are, very squishy compared to a FF tank in the same gear due to poor optimization. With the new progression path, Overseer does provide any noticeable benefit to damage output (and thus, aggro output) over Guardian, and provides significantly less survivability than Guardian does, which only serves to help ruin and bury one of the best AT tank options available, when all the AT tank options barring Rockstar are mediocre at best, and otherwise garbage.
Furthermore, the progression change doesn't do much of anything useful; the choice between Ice Cage and Wall of Ice is a choice between being able to perform a vital part of your role as a tank and slightly higher aggro for a tank with poor aggro; a catch-22 because it only addresses one problem to begin with.
Shatter at 17 instead of Ice Sheath is fine, especially in allowing a Glacier to have Shatter as well as Icy Embrace at the same time (where Icy Embrace is a must) but doesn't fundamentally fix the issue that Glacier is going to be using Ice Blast (which, without a way to constantly refresh Cold Snap, does low damage to begin with) or Avalanche (which is also understandably bad for single-target damage) most of the time. Not to mention, Shatter will consume Ice Barrier further down the line, which further strongarms you towards Unbreakable (when bosses all throughout the late-game and endgame obliterate Ice Barrier instantly to begin with) so there's an anti-synergy for tanking going on there with live Glacier but especially with new/PTS glacier.
Ice Barrier versus Unbreakable at 30 is, I will say, a deeecent improvement over being forced to take Unbreakable at 30, and then choosing between Ice Burst (no) and Ice Burst (yes) at 35, but since everyone and their grandmother doesn't care for Ice Barrier to begin with since it's useless due to the barriers dying instantly to everything and also being eaten by Shatter, it's effectively a non-choice of going for Ice Burst anyways for old/current Glacier, while new/PTS Glacier... well, yeah. Unbreakable all the way.
And finally, at Ice Burst vs Ice Sheath at 35, the problem of late-game and endgame enemies rip apart objects, sigils and the likes instantly just by existing rears its head again in that you're not going to have Ice Burst stick around for more than a second or two, which... doesn't matter too much for its original tick of damage, but means you will never make use of its explosion; instead needing to Shatter it before it gets erased by whatever you've aimed it at. Which to me is fine personally, but Ice Burst queued into Shatter is in the same vein as Sneak (or a Threat Wipe) into Shadow Strike, which is exactly the thing that you don't want us doing despite the game's mechanics intending for it, so that seems... problematic. Meanwhile, Ice Sheath giving Cold Snap will, even at R1, provide further benefit to the Glacier, between the extra additive layer damage (which tanks are starved for compared to DPS) and the huge Ice Blast buff while Cold Snapped. In this particular case, Ice Burst doesn't have too much of a reason to be here, especially when having an AO is also an emergency panic button for breaking free of CC effects without wasting adv points on your AD, in turn allowing for more flexibility in the moment.
All in all, I will say that I like the notion of a Glacier rotation being Ice Blast > Ice Blast > Ice Blast > Ice Burst (if taken over Ice Sheath, and when off cooldown) > Shatter, but these changes don't really address core issues like anything spawning Ice Objects being near-worthless when Ice Objects die to a sneeze, let alone anything at all at level 40, or Glacier revolving entirely around either Ice Blast (which needs constant Cold Snapping to perform well) or Avalanche (which needs crit stats that Glacier only really gets any of whatsoever through Guardian, and even less of through Overseer.) Introducing Shatter as a mandatory power choice while still allowing us Icy Embrace is a step in the right direction, but only one step, when all the other steps involve addressing those highlighted issues, and also incredibly importantly, not taking away a tank's sources of defense and some of said tank's few limited damage utilities in favor of "it makes your 60-points-per-second healing rune last longer, that's clearly way more important than shaving 10k+ damage before blocks off dino bites and allowing you to have actual crit chance without building like a DPS which further ruins your tanking especially since dex isn't even a taken superstat here. It doesn't matter that you only take that rune if you ignore a better AD and in doing so effectively have no AD because now that you're always using Shatter you're going to erase those Ice Objects that are giving you def% even before enemy AoEs do, I.E. in three seconds or less."
Needless to say: a tiny improvement to damage output for a tank that still leaves it lagging behind in damage and thus aggro generation does not make up for taking that tank, which already has subpar survivability, and going "you know what, you deserve even less survivability. I want you dying to crit dino bites at full health through block in full Distinguished R7s and Onslaught R5s."
Where it happens: PTS
What happens: Freeze Dry advantage on Snow Storm appears to be set to a rank 0 paralyze? It is only 5.8 seconds (Ranged Role) as opposed to the standard 9.7 second duration Rank 1 paralyzes have in Ranged Role. Please amend.
Just to be clear:
Hybrid Role nets 7 seconds.
Support Role nets 8.8 seconds.
This is woefully underpowered for a paralyze like this where they are normally within the range of:
10/14/17 seconds in Hybrid Role for paralyzes
My Characters on PRIMUS
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Wall of Ice - Rank 1, 2, 3, and Sharp Edges
LIVE - Rank 2 + Sharp Edges. Applies Bleed (or chilled) as expected at 25% rate. Creates ice cage on targets as intended.
PTS - Rank 2 + Sharp Edges. Sharp Edges tooltip is broken. Chill/bleed did not scale from 15% to 25% with Rank 2. Rank 3 will similarly not scale to 35% if taken. Does not create ice cage on targets on activation.