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[Seeking Help] The KigaVerse AU Needs Consultants
locochoco
Posts: 328 Arc User
I am currently writing my own Champions AU, simply to isolate my RPCs assertions onto the lore and canon, and facilitate the inevitable errors and variations that arise from that process. I am looking for consultant on PnP and Champions Online lore, characters and continuity. As PnP provides the most raw data, history and information, it is the preferred source, but I am looking for both.
These positions will not violate Fair Use laws, as I will use this consultant team to probe for general bit of info to build upon and work from, vs long, winded explanations of intimate history and events normally reserved for purchase via the Champions books. This is merely to access bits and pieces of helpful information to go forward with in way that feels more accurate.
All consultants will be credited on every single story because you are consulting on the whole AU, regardless of specific contributions for certain characters. Any time you help me fix, resolve, or come up with a plot, or any part of one, you will be credited for story. Other credits include things like creators of all characters who appear in any story, Gearbox, Cryptic, Champions, and the PRIMUS Database site it's primarily published through and hosted by.
A link to the AU Hub page on PRIMUS: http://primusdatabase.com/index.php?title=Category:The_Kigaverse
Mail me or ask questions here for posterity.
I'd love to benefit from your help to make the KigaVerse the best it can be.
These positions will not violate Fair Use laws, as I will use this consultant team to probe for general bit of info to build upon and work from, vs long, winded explanations of intimate history and events normally reserved for purchase via the Champions books. This is merely to access bits and pieces of helpful information to go forward with in way that feels more accurate.
All consultants will be credited on every single story because you are consulting on the whole AU, regardless of specific contributions for certain characters. Any time you help me fix, resolve, or come up with a plot, or any part of one, you will be credited for story. Other credits include things like creators of all characters who appear in any story, Gearbox, Cryptic, Champions, and the PRIMUS Database site it's primarily published through and hosted by.
A link to the AU Hub page on PRIMUS: http://primusdatabase.com/index.php?title=Category:The_Kigaverse
Mail me or ask questions here for posterity.
I'd love to benefit from your help to make the KigaVerse the best it can be.
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Thanks so much! I was depending of your expertise to get this enormous task done.
My main desire right now is to know who created the following characters:
Kigatilik
Shadow Destroyer
Rakshasa
I have this feeling Rakshasa is a Scott Bennie creation, but I don't want to presume anything.
Scott Bennie did create a character called Rakshasa for an earlier version of the Champions Universe, but he was a true supernatural rakshasa. The mutant minion of Dr. Destroyer who appears in the CU today is almost certainly Steve Long's invention, possibly inspired by Scott's.
Scott also invented Kigatilik as a background character for his own Champions campaign, but based on what I've read I don't believe Scott ever used him directly or gave him game stats. Kiga's style and appearance in CO are Cryptic designs, although I know Steve Long elaborated those details for his PnP write-up.
Scott Bennie
Steve Long
MJ Saulnier
Hero Games
Cryptic Studios
, should do the trick.
You ready for the hard part?
I need an artifact Kiga, or Tilingkoot could have access to, create, w/e, that can shut conventional electronic technology down, something beyond an EMP. Something on a supernatural scale. The plot is that Kiga has sent a ripple down the chain of command through Tilingkoot, to his BigFoot warlord (a villain I'm making for Chinook), to have his tribe of corrupted and evil BigFoot and all his other plentiful minions, acquire this artifact, and offer it to the Hunter-Pats in an unusual, unexpected deal on the condition it be used against Steelhead First so they can gain control of it. I had wanted TIlingkoot to be planning to have a conjuration of some kind to "hide" or "shield" it from Canadian governmental intervention from then on. This was also going to come into play in Chinook's stories when, after the plan for it at Steelhead fails, Tilingkoot uses it on Cheyatanka Bluff instead as a revenge play against Chinook after he defeats his Bigfoot warlord.
I need ideas for what this artifact could be, and a general skinny it's origin and nature.
The American supernatural villain team, the Devil's Advocates, includes a member called Gyre who is one of the Earth's very few accomplished practitioners of "technomancy." Trained as both a physicist and an occultist, Gyre has achieved a synthesis of elements of both. She works with talismans incorporating enchanted and electronic components, the supernatural geometry of modern urban architecture and infrastructure, etc. I'd say its a safe bet Gyre could construct an artifact to do exactly what you want.
Then it's just an issue of motivating her to do it. One route would be for Tilingkoot and/or some of Kigatilik's demons to kidnap her, and compel her to build it. Gyre is fairly powerful and quite versatile, but not a match for Tilingkoot in a straight fight, and without her talismans she's just a human. However, the other Devil's Advocates would surely try to find and free her. You may or may not want to deal with that.
OTOH Kigatilik might try to "hire" her for this job. While she has little interest in conventional wealth, Gyre believes her research into combined science and sorcery will ultimately lead her to understand the principles governing the entire Universe. To that end she always seeks to increase her knowledge. Kigatilik may be able to tempt her with his own knowledge of dark magic and the cosmology of the peoples of the North.
(Gyre and the Devil's Advocates are fully detailed in Champions Villains Volume Two: Villain Teams. Kigatilik and Tilingkoot receive that treatment in Volume One: Master Villains.)
Does that sound promising, or would you like other options?
During the Golden Age of superheroes, the greatest enemy of the heroes of Canada was the Ice King Vultok, ruler of a realm in the dimension of Faerie called the Land of Ice. Vultok worshiped the imprisoned Kigatilik as a god. In 1945 Vultok stole a prototype atomic bomb, but in a confrontation with heroes in the underground domed palace he had built in the North, the bomb was accidentally detonated, killing Vultok and his followers. But in recent years Vultok has returned from the dead, and once more allied with Kigatilik.
UNTIL maintains surveillance of the entrance to the radioactive ruin of Vultok's palace, but it's not hard to imagine magical beings finding a way to slip past them. If Vultok investigated his former palace, he might have found an artifact altered or created by the collision of the most destructive product of science, with the magic of Faerie; a magic which reacts against and negates the forces of science. Naturally if Vultok found such a thing, he'd bring it to Kigatilik's attention.
(Vultok's story was originally sketched out in Champions Of The North for Hero System Fifth Edition, and elaborated in Golden Age Champions for Sixth Edition.)
This was great. Thank you so much.
I'm all about World Building, and seeding plots and options, so I like the Gyre angle. I may have a loose, lost artifact of his serve as the device.
One of the things I'm also working on is Ravenhearst Village, a secret commune of mutants in Canada. In my concept, the oldest tree in existence resides here. It's in the Town Square as he likes to be near the action, and is basically the village elder, spiritual councilor, Wiseman, fortune teller, really you name it as his sap can also heal a lot of problems and speed in the recovery of wounds. So he is a huge part of the regular cast.
Basically he is a sentient tree. He has a sort of face, and can move his limbs although to really exert and bend them hurts them, so he is very "lazy" from human perspectives. He sleeps 80% of the time. So when he awakens, words spreads cheerfully around town like it's Christmas morning. Women want fortunes read, men was sap or advice or yet another cherished memory or story, kids want to marvel at the mere sound of his voice.
In the lore trees used to rule everything on land, and were sentient. They were tall and old and plentiful. But they were plagued by many issues. As sentient beings they breathed oxygen, were stationary, couldn't move or be awake much, were vulnerable to harm from so many things. They gave up full, complete sentience over time, evolving into the trees we know, who do not suffer for their existence, and as a result, began to produce oxygen instead of consume it. This was before the great cosmic fire (the ice age). During the cosmic fire, so much life was erased. A small handful of elder trees survived in a deep valley, but during the fallout, all perished but the one at Ravenhearst today.
After meeting the mayor in Ireland during her long travels as a semi-immortal, they became dear friends. When she founded Ravenhearst, she offered him a change of scenery and a new home that could finally keep him safe with a newfound purpose. He trusts her enough to let her move him from Ireland to Northwest Territories.
I'm wondering how this can be reconciled with existing lore.
Well, officially, there's no time in the past when trees ruled the world or were all sapient and mobile. The evolution of life on Champions Earth proceeded more or less as it did on the real world, except when interfered with by supernatural or extra-terrestrial agencies. However, AFAIK there's nothing that says it couldn't have happened. Little detail is given about the state of Champs Earth before about half a million years ago, and your scenario wouldn't be the weirdest deviation from real-world history on that planet.
It's one of those work in progress things. It may be a bit too high fantasy, but I'm finding elements of this actually exist in PnP Champs, so perhaps not.
@bulgarex It may interest you to help develop a new ultimate antagonist and its counter part in the fan-based sphere of Champs lore.
I made a character called Lode Star, the Living Star. One of the most powerful beings in acceptable KigaVerse canon. His power is star/light-based, and his nemesis is the opposite but not in any way we'd conceive as men of terrestrial sciences and sensibilities. You know, it's not some shadow monster. This thing is like a universe eater. An ender of existence and light. Something so powerful it's going to take a galactic super-force of assets on an unwitting suicide mission.
I need a ton of development thrown into this concept as it has far-reaching implications on the multiverse itself. Both entities exist and are governed by forced beyond anything in the multiverse and outliers the Qliphoth and others. This thing has no known equal in our hierarchy of existence, and that makes me so pumped about the story arc. I have 0 idea on a conclusion yet, no matter who or what this antagonist is.
Basically I'm going to be working out what this being is, why it does what it does, and develop a plot based on that.
Not all stars are created from nebulous clouds of gasses. In some instances, the universe gives birth to a starling -- a being who seemingly belongs to one of the sapient species that inhabits it, but which in time will metamorphosize into a stellar body. Any such being would develop immense power before it became a star. The type of star that being would become would be influenced by the life it experiences. A starling raised in a loving environment would nurture life and promote peace, while one who suffered might foster dangerous worlds or warlike species.
One starling appeared on Earth in recent years, and was taken into Ravenswood Academy under the name Gloriana. But she experienced a trauma which drove her mad, and left Earth for parts unrevealed. The starlings and Gloriana are detailed in Teen Champions
At the apex of the Sephirothic Tree of Life -- the plan of the Multiverse -- those determined and enlightened enough can find God, by whatever name you choose to call It: the Creator, the Primum Mobile, Adam Kadmon, Brahman, the Tao, etc. But the nadir of the Sephiroth's shadowy reflection, the Qliphoth, holds the Anti-God, the De-Creator, Spirit of Unbeing, otherwise known as the Solipsist. The Solipsist seeks to unmake everything that exists which is not Itself.
Despite its unfathomable nature and unimaginable power, the Solipsist sometimes works through agents, even mortals. One such agent on Earth was the late villain Archimago, greatest sorcerer of the 20th Century. (The Solipsist is described in somewhat more detail in The Mystic World, which also summarizes the life and some of the activities of Archimago. More details about Archimago are related in Champions Universe.)
It's awakening, arrival, w/e - the plot will require a clear catalyst at some point - blindsided the last Lode Star, who was one of the greatest heroes in cosmic history. For his character and deeds, not might or who he was able to beat up. He was a different type of hero with the lifespan to achieve epic feats of heroism and diplomacy. You know, I affectionately call Movizaris a diplomate with a fission canon. But he was unable to prepare the Five Galaxies (fictional ones, Milky Way not included. FAR away from us or anything featured in Champs. I want total freedom with it, however existing races are already on the table. I want at least 1 familiar race of alien on Lode Star super force of allies. Gadroon is the leading prospect right now), and he had to face this entity alone as it destroyed his planet. He stood less than no chance, but actually got it to acknowledge he was there. Something we'd consider herculean, considering he was one lone mortal. It destroyed his mortal existence completely, like nothing can bring him back now because in the fabric of time-space, he actually never existed. He was literally erased. However, thanks to his powers, he exists in what I have dubbed the Light Dimension as a working name. His spirit lives there and he helps the new Lode Star prepare Earth as much as he can from spotty, feverish dream encounters.
But We need something so big it requires this new Lode Star to muster the biggest force of heroes, villains, aliens and entities ever assembled, spanning galaxies to do war with this thing and its army of minions.
Now, if you'd be willing to settle for something just one rung below the Solipsist on the power ladder, I do have a couple of other precedents in mind that might serve you.
"in our multiverse"**
This is a new creation from beyond. The sort of thing that could trip over a multiverse like a marble on a bedroom floor.
What also doesn't appeal t me, at all, is just using my creations to steamrolling all canon and IP landmarks, just doing my own thing and calling it Champions fiction.
As much as a I love my characters, I can't reconcile any of it in a way that works. Champs may be more convoluted and broken as a story telling sandbox than Marvel or DC. And that is a pretty bloated universe.
I thought about debating your points, but I get the impression you want to tell your stories your way, and it's not my place to try to change your mind.
I mean I thought that would be obvious... I'm looking at it from the outside in, on the ground level looking up. I don't have a grasp on PnP, hell, even the game, as you can slip into a block of missions without following the story line, or not really getting any canonical references in the content, because 90% of missions and Accept & Complete taskings with 2 maybe 3 short dialogue bits.
All I have is what the neglected fandom wiki, the incomplete canon portion of the PRIMUS site, or you have offered.
Now, when you have several characters that are semi-developed in which you have to fit into this as you learn it, it's less than perfect. There's just too. much. crap. Same reason I always refused to work within Marvel and DC in my long RP run since '06. Too. Much. Overlapping. Crap. Gods upon gods upon cosmic entities, outlying dimensions that are trying to eat other dimensions but somehow never actually can.
But when it comes to the material itself, I find it hard to really enjoy Champions, yes. Because of the nature of it's origin, it's one big Marvel/DC clone with plenty of typical Open Source Role Play fare thrown in. I understand your proximity, I respect the hell out of how far Champs has come, and what it is and means for those who have contributed and taken part over the decades. I salute any hero/villain universe, however broken I may think it is. You have to understand and recognize that Champs has objective issues due to the nature of Open Source work. It's heavily steeped in blatant fan-fic RPCs. All the major hallmarks can be found in top clone form among the Champions PnP roster.
But it's immaterial to me that we don't agree. If you want to keep asking questions about the CU (MMO or PnP), I'll continue doing my best to answer them. What you do with that afterward is your business.
I appreciate it, but I'm squarely done with Champs.
Please send all your high end mods and unbound stuff to me. It will find a good home here (original 1st ed. PNP player with his own spin on the Champs verse and CO Player for 10+ years).
You've been a tremendous help, bulgarex.
I've recently returned after entertaining the development of my OC and villain, Red Lotus. I decided to conceptualize and plot out his actual life, the company and organization (Japanese Illuminati-type thing) which augmented him and others, as well as the team which he was part of for years, doing Black Ops work as a more heroic figure, vs the villain M. City finds years later. I decided to plot out how his origin would play out, with his family butchered by Double-Barrel's people, working for his old boss. Double-Barrel and all of his old teammates are hunted down, and with the exception of the immortal Hitobashira, all of them die at his hand.
This went VERY well. It reignited the entire KigaVerse.
Now I need help with a different subject, or rather a few.
- Empyreans
- Arcadia
- Atlanteans
- Lumerians
To give you a run-down on why:
Paragon (no real name yet) is a super hero of the modern day. The most powerful creature to ever exist on earth. He has a unique story that will give me one hell of a vehicle to write an epic saga, and allow me to have some fun with super powers.
In Northwatch's parallel universe, an ancient Lumerian prophecy has been the subject of intrigue and obsession among Empyrean, Atlantean and Lumerian alike for time in memoriam. The prophecy tells of an Empyrean child born with a specific birthmark indicating their identity. This child was prophesized to be capable of god-like power, and topple the old ways of rulership and war, uniting the planet under Empyrean law and guidance. it was said that this child would come to rule the Empyreans, and guide them toward their place as the leaders of this world. As such, both Empyrean and Lumerian entities both group and individual, have been fixated on this prophecy to this day, for better or worse. Many fear this child and what it may be capable of in both power and influence.
Empyrean children with birthmarks have been sought out and "taken" by their own people, or hunted and assassinated by Lumerian agents for as long as this prophecy has been spoken or written. As such, when a long-lost heir to the throne of Arcadia births a son he is sure is this child (numerous factors, one being his mind does not exist in terms of tangible telepathy), he must protect him at all costs.
Paragon is an heir to Arcadian rulership, and the prophesied Empyrean child. He can literally evolve any power he sets his willpower to, and this all comes together at the end of his story arc, I promise. He has your baseline super stats but to extreme limits in present day. He arrived to defeat destroyer on this version of Earth, something that was a big decision for him, and set the Empyrean world on fire for a short while, igniting the call for his arrest by Arcadian authority, as well as creating a maelstrom of mortal, human press.
He was hidden among mortal society by his father, thousands of years ago, and has a long history of heroism and confrontations with the Lumerians (all Atlantean involvement in any of this is pending research), his prophesied identity being outed long before his exploits in Detroit. Many attempts have been made by Empyreans and Arcadia to locate, detain, or eliminate him over the centuries, but all have failed due to his power. He usually ends up developing the powers of other supers he encounters.
After the Battle For Detroit, a hefty bounty was put in place and all Empyreans considered him a wanted man. He went into self-imposed exile until his father found him and convinced him to return to Arcadia. That's WIP right now.
But the true source of his omnipotent power is being essentially a spawn of the One True God, literally meant to lead Arcadia and the Empyreans toward a more direct influence in the leadership of Earth.
That's what I have so far.
First, it's "Lemuria," not "Lumeria."
For Arcadia and the Empyreans, I recommend that you start by scrolling down this Pen and Paper RPG sub-forum to the topic, "Being Empyrean," which summarizes many salient points. The king of the Empyreans for the past ten millennia has been Hazor, son of their first leader Amlin, and brother to Arvad the Betrayer the erstwhile king of Lemuria. Hazor's son Zoltar was considered the Crown Prince, and commander of Arcadia's defenses, until he was killed by a monster in the Sea of Japan around a thousand years ago. Archon, Zoltar's son, succeeded his father in both positions (and also served with the famous superhero team, the Sentinels). So making your Paragon the acknowledged direct heir would require modifying the lore. As a possible alternative, he might be the son of Arvad, which in itself raises interesting potential complications.
Neither Empyreans nor Lemurians were big on prophecies, but since you want to involve the Atlanteans, I would suggest that the prophecy came from them. The Oracle of Vasaras on the great antediluvian island of Atlan'elos was renowned for the prophetic visions its priests received after inhaling vapors produced on the site. The three realms did interact -- Atlantis and Arcadia in a cordial but distant manner, Lemuria aggressively hostile to both -- so the prophecy could have filtered out among them. You might also consider that Nama, the serpent-god patron of VIPER, is himself a prophet, and created VIPER to protect him from threats that he foresaw arising in the modern era. Sounds like Paragon would qualify.
However, I'll point out that the Champions PnP source book, Hidden Lands, has chapters covering the history and current state of all three of these lands and races in considerable detail. Most of the book is lore, not game stats. And in PDF form the price is very reasonable: https://www.herogames.com/store/product/272-hidden-lands-pdf/ . The book was written before CO bought the IP and instituted the Lemurian Civil War, so some details are outdated, but if you're familiar with the CO story you can easily catch up. And the developers based Lemuria heavily on what's in HL, although they changed a few characters, notably Arvad's motivations. All in all, though, it's the most complete source for these subjects available.
Let me know what's next on your agenda.
You'll have to cut me some slack. I didn't put God in Champs, I'm just having fun with it.
Lumeria just sounds better. And look, I rue the notion of working with them, their race, any of it. Knowing their role in the arc can't even involve the prophecy, just makes it worse.
I read that article. Lots of character and RP hooks, little to help someone write scenes taking place in Arcadia, to involve key figures, or write a 6-part saga centering around the place.
The sort of information I need to depict entire places in detail over a series of stories is hidden behind a paywall, scattered across Lore compendiums...
Not sure.
In this case, not really. Hidden Lands has at least 90% of what you would need: historical timelines, maps of relevant areas, descriptions of the physical environment, racial appearance and abilities, thorough cultural analysis, full backgrounds and character descriptions for multiple key NPCs. Yes, a few other details are brought up in other books, but if they're essential to your story I can point you to them, otherwise they can be safely ignored.
If you want my advice, for what you say you want, this would be a big part of it.
I need some of the details on Destroyer's plan, the method/catalyst he used to destroy the city, and what villains might have been part of his master plan.
This is a key moment in the story arc of my super team, the Watch Dogs. They witness this event, although most are incapacitated for it. One of their stories is literally this event, from their perspective, in the KigaVerse AU version of Champs Earth. I will be doing my own KigaVerse retelling of this story, and having the baseline of the real events would help tremendously.
This is exactly what I need. I've been deeply pondering a venture into purchase Champs material for the purpose of making non-KigaVerse, fanon (fan canon) characters. But for now, a Cliff Note version is exactly what I had been looking for. I can then take referenced items from that and dig deeper into them.
Another thing to keep in mind is that, unknown to anyone else, Destroyer's entire scheme leading to the devastation of Detroit was an elaborate ruse to fake his own death, so that he could take an entire decade free from hounding by the forces of good, to upgrade his technology in preparation for his "triumphant" return. (I personally object to this decision by Hero Games' former line developer, Steve Long, because IMO it cheapens the deaths of all those heroes and innocents. But officially, it is what it is.)
On July 19, 1992, the Doctor sent coded messages to supervillains across the United States, hiring them to launch a crime wave that would keep the police and PRIMUS occupied. In the meantime, DD set up his "Asteroid Attractor" in a hidden base in Detroit. It would draw asteroids from space to crash into the United States at Detroit, which if he'd followed through with his plan, would have devastated the country that was the source of his greatest opposition. However, on July 22 Destroyer arranged for some of the super kids from Ravenswood Academy to "discover" his base, and alert many famous heroes and hero teams -- the Sentinels, the Justice Squadron, the Peacekeepers, and more. They converged on Detroit, where DD had waiting for them, besides his own forces, more hired supervillains, plus three powerful monsters he had captured to unleash against them: Grond, Mega-Terak, and the fearsome ice-creature called Glacier.
The heroes divided into two teams. Those able to operate in space sought to destroy the oncoming asteroids, while the remainder battled DD's forces to reach his control center and stop the Asteroid Attractor. The largest asteroid, which had it impacted would likely have destroyed all America, was shattered by Vanguard, the world's mightiest superhero (and the Champions analogue to Superman), by flying into it with all his speed and strength. But the impact and the drain on his power was too great for even him to survive.
The battle raged on into the next day, and when the heroes finally broke through to Destroyer's control room, he fought them alone for nearly half an hour, personally killing several. But finally the heroes appeared to gain the upper hand, which was when the Doctor implemented the final part of his plan, activating a stealth-cloaked orbital ray cannon which obliterated his base and went on to bombard Detroit. Before the spaceborne heroes could stop it, the cannon had levelled much of the city and killed nearly 60,000 people. Only Doctor Destroyer's broken helmet was found in the ruins, and most of the authorities assumed he'd committed suicide rather than be captured. In fact DD had teleported to one of his secret bases a split second before the ray struck.
Champions Universe p. 85 lists all the heroes who died during the battle in addition to Vanguard. Unless stated otherwise, you should assume a hero was killed in the final confrontation with DD:
Amazing Grace, who said she was given holy powers by an angel, but whose healing powers weren’t enough to preserve her own life in the face of Destroyer’s attacks;
Crusher, a telekinetic hero who’d received his powers in a VIPER experiment, killed by Destroyer's orbital cannon blast;
Eclipse, a mischievous, playful heroine with darkness powers who claimed to be a sentient sunspot;
Firefight, a pyrokinetic who mostly used his powers during the battle to save innocents from the numerous fires that sprang up, and was killed by Dr. Destroyer when he responded to the call for help during the final battle;
Flechette II, a gun-wielding former street criminal turned hero who was slain by Destroyer’s orbital cannon blast;
Goblin, a human who gained his powers by bonding with a strange alien spirit, but who wasn’t strong enough to keep Dr. Destroyer from breaking his neck;
Icestar, one of the most experienced and beloved heroes from the early Eighties;
Johnny Hercules, possessor of the “Hercules Force” that made him super-strong... but not as strong as Destroyer;
Nimbus, who had power over both wind and cold, which she used during the battle to suck power away from the monstrous Glacier and create a snowstorm to slow down some of Destroyer’s forces;
Radion, an electricity controller created by Destroyer based on Gigaton’s DNA, but who’d turned on his creator years before, and suffered Destroyer’s revenge for his betrayal during the battle;
Shadowboxer, one of Detroit’s few native heroes, who was crushed to death by Glacier;
Swashbuckler II, successor to a famed Golden Age hero of the same name, whose body armor wasn’t enough to save him when he tried to stop Grond’s rampage during the battle;
Tiger, leader of the Sentinels, who’d led UNTIL’s attack on Dr. Phillippe Moreau’s Ural Mountains compound but was accidentally injected with one of Moreau’s sera during the fight and transformed into a man-tiger hybrid;
Vigil, a mutant with energy powers who often worked for the Department of Defense and spent much of the battle fighting Destroid robots.
If you need further details, let me know and I'll see what I can do.
Thank you so much for the info. Plenty to work with, and exactly the blanks I needed filled in.
I'm hunting down reference images of their costumes, and real names, starting with Vanguard, but not having much luck. It's important that the story be told right, and that requires illustrating their sacrifice.
I'd also like to know what teams they each belonged to, if any. That will be important for setting up the foreground of the plot.
A few characters I can identify with high certainty. The flying hero in black and red with a fiery image across his chest is definitely Meteor Man (third user of that identity, real name Roberto "Bobby" Marrero), who assumed command of the Sentinels after their leader Tiger had a hole blown clear through his chest by a Destroyer-Beam. Speaking of Tiger, I'm confident that's his corpse sprawled face down between DD's legs. The woman at the control panel at top has to be Marcy Gibson, known as the techno-hero Electron, who shut down the Asteroid Attractor. She would become a member of the Justice Squadron, but may not have been at this time, as the text on BOTD p. 25 says she was "filling in" for her father Digitak, who'd been wounded fighting Grond.
For the others, my best guess for the hero in blue and white and shades would be Radion, because of his costume, power effects, and physical similarity to Tim "Gigaton" Colton. The winged woman could be Archangel, because, well, look at her. The woman melting in the bottom-right corner might be intended to be Icestar, although in earlier Champions sources Icestar was male, but in the current official setting the character's gender isn't specified. For the rest in that picture, I couldn't say.
More to come about Vanguard.
I have been mulling over this plot and how to do it all day. I also agree about the direction things take after the Battle itself. I'm not fond of Shadow Destroyer or the idea it was some elaborate ruse to kill himself. This could have been done in a much better fashion for a smaller, stronger arc involving - and costing - fewer characters. And I almost want to tinker with it. Paragon can teleport, as well as has a slowed perception of time due to his potential maximum velocity, so Destroyer wouldn't be able to escape from his clutches without detection - bare minimum - if not full pursuit. However, Paragon could probably survive the orbital blast.
I've been working on ways to offer a reimagined alterative to this scenario in terms of DD's fate alone. I want most of this event to happen the same, and I am strongly, diligently assessing Paragon's role in any of it. He IS supposed to be a rogue, outlying anomaly that only exists on KigaVerse Earth, but I still don't know how well he will reconcile with this plot.
My idea so far is that after defeating him, the blast occurs as Paragon has DD's helmet clutched in-hand, so the only thing in the rubble is Paragon and DD's helmet. Maybe it's possible to write it so that the blast itself distracts Paragon enough that he doesn't notice DD porting out. Or if DD could somehow stop a pretty powerful telepath from detecting him mind or any other part of him, he could remain unfollowed.
But I like the idea of DD being reborn somehow. Be it as some fragment of his conscience imprinted into the cortex of a Destroid robot, or a clone accidentally released from a stasis pod. Some way I can really have fun and do a whole story leading out of this beyond Multifarian Madness, as fun as that was (Shadow Destroyer/DD's quasi-redemption aside).
Tiger (KigaVerse)
Icestar (KigaVerse)
Gave her my own 90s twist filling in blanks.
Radion (KigaVerse)
Sinclair flew back to the States and adopted the identity of Vanguard. In 1962 he helped reform the Golden Age superhero team, the Justice Squadron, along with one of its original members, the Drifter. For over thirty years Vanguard protected Champions Earth with his Squadron comrades and on his own, saving it from terrible threats countless times. He's still considered the most powerful superhero who ever lived, and the paragon of heroism. Even Doctor Destroyer, despite his expressed contempt for Vanguard's morality, respected him as one of his greatest enemies, and exulted when Vanguard died during the Battle of Detroit. (The most recent version of Vanguard's origin appears in Champions Beyond, while his death is recounted in Book Of The Destroyer.)
I'm going to attach the only official pictures of Vanguard in costume that I know of. The first is a black-and-white drawing from BOTD, showing him in battle with Destroyer wearing another of his earlier model armors.
The other is a color painting from Champions Universe of Vanguard's corpse climbing out of his grave at the command of Takofanes, presumably during the Blood Moon. Note that his body had been buried for over a decade, so the colors of his costume have obviously deteriorated and can't be assumed to be the same as when he lived.
FYI, these are the last pictures I'm prepared to reproduce here, as I believe I'm pushing the bounds of Fair Use.
I understand, but that paywall is one of the - if not the - main reason myself and many others won't venture into the purchase of Champs books. Quite simply, we have virtually no idea what to expect, or what we will get from it. Will it just make our game OCs a bit better on paper, introduce us to new lore elements, and leave us with new questions needing answers from yet more books we know nothing of?
For me personally, I'm half afraid the majority of it will feel like outdated pulp I need to tinker with.
Unlike almost any other fandom, Champions restricts access to even the most basic knowledge of their universe. As a role player, that leaves a different sort of taste in the mouth; You don't wake up every morning and fall in love with Champs all over again unless you have invested money for the right to. I can do a quick google run and fall head-over-heels for any other superhero IP that allows its fans and paying customers to openly and freely celebrate and share fandom. That sort of press and exposure is priceless.
DC and Marvel have vastly bigger fandoms than Champions. There are other CO fan websites, although they see little activity nowadays. But you've just been given a big chunk of info for free by a fan. Scroll down the topics of this sub-forum, you'll find a ton more of it. Champions Online used to have a free wiki -- a couple of them, in fact. I don't know why they stopped maintaining them, but you can still access a lot of that material via the Internet Archive: http://web.archive.org/web/20130825234710/http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Main_Page . Or, you could check the excellent free CO "Lore Primer" PDF created by the late great Scott "Thundrax" Bennie: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzHmfdC4jXPpVmxGd1ZxcHVfbFk/view?resourcekey=0-aQezNwGn_cAOG1eUYbYz2Q . If you want to ask about Champions from PnP veterans, you can go right to the source: https://www.herogames.com/forums/ , https://www.herogames.com/forums/forum/13-champions/ . You could also look up the abbreviated database that Hero Games used to maintain for free on their website, when there was more demand for that info: https://web.archive.org/web/20120203234327/http://www.herogames.com/championsUniverse.htm (note the drop down menu on the right which takes you to specific lore topics).
If you want to know what books contain what information, and what else you'd be getting if you bought them, ask here. I've already provided that for some of the topics you raised.
Didn't know what to call him, or what his story was, but he presents like Champs analog to Beast.
Also; is it just me, or is Vanguard also kind of like Elvis with super powers?
Well, he did become empowered in 1959, and he might have held on to certain fashion elements from the era. To me he looks more like a Seventies porn star.
We have hardly any details about his beliefs and personality, aside from the implication that he carried Superman-level respect from this contemporaries. He even left full-time membership with the Justice Squadron because he overshadowed his team mates in the public consciousness, to the point that the JS was commonly referred to as "Vanguard and his friends."
My "KigaVerse" Vanguard is the son of Italian-American and Scottish-American immigrants Viviana Capello and Malcolm Sinclair. Born in 1938, he fought in the Vietnam war and was greatly impacted by what he saw and endured during the conflict. Jeff is 21 when he is pulled out of active tours and battles severe PTSD in his daily life, but his time overseas instilled in him a great sense of courage and heroism as well as humanity. He is haunted by the war. The faces of the innocents whos lives were torn apart or taken by the conflict. The allies he couldn't save, the enemies he had to kill. It seems as though normal life will never feel or be the same again.
Jeff can't stop his service, and ends up assigned to the archeological dig site in '59. Here he ends up lost and in the hands of the monks who tell him about the bell. They don't tell him much, other than it cannot be rung, except by the chosen. That, in fact, it will only allow itself to be rung by this individual, and it's never be rung in the history of the temple.
The rest is, as they say, history.
I want my Vanguard to be a paragon of heroism as you described. A man who is devout in his beliefs and morals- however before or ahead of his time they may be -and human about both his failures and triumphs as Vanguard. A bleeding heart who is his own worst enemy and critic, because he will never do enough to save and fix and heal everyone.
A man who carries the burden and pain of an entire world.
You have him involved in the Vietnam War, but keep in mind that American combat troops weren't deployed there until 1964, the country's earlier military presence being confined to "advisors." It was also that year that the draft was instituted, so Sinclair would have entered the military voluntarily. It might be more interesting to elaborate on why he made that choice.
It's become rather cliche in fiction that soldiers who served in Vietnam suffer from PTSD. Many did, but decidedly the minority. I'd also suggest that it would be a dangerous condition for the world's most physically powerful man who regularly engaged in super-powered conflict. Sinclair could have been deeply affected by the experience without having a mental illness.
When Vanguard's origin was first discussed in a Champions book, he was said to be an archaeologist, but a later edition retconned that to soldier. For my use of Vanguard I conflated those backgrounds, giving him a lifelong hobby in archaeology, to the point that he volunteered to guard a civilian archaeological expedition to Tibet for the chance to share in their discoveries.
Regarding Vanguard's age, there's no suggestion that he suffered any impairment in his prowess toward the end of his life. Many Champions supers are ageless or age at a greatly slowed rate. Superman himself has been show in various alternate time line stories to retain or even increase in vigor over time.
My Vanguard did his tours and went to war as an average youth, pre-Bell, pre-powers. I like a good, clear motivation behind heroes and what makes them tick. Batman is SO great in part because of his motivation. It's so enduring, tangible and relatable vs, "I got powers one day and became a hero because I was a good person."
I needed a reason, a motivation, a tangible way to set up his arc in a smaller setting; Why does it matter that he saves the world? Why does he insist "this is THE ONLY way... >I< have to do this"? What made him SUCH a globally loved hero?
I walked through this and landed on that backstory, followed by 30 years of tireless global work. The lack of feeling normal within regular life pushing him further into Vanguard and his duties, allowing him to be more places, doing more for more people. Winning a Nobel Peace Prize for his work in peacekeeping and humanitarian response. I wanted motivation that felt less pulpy when it came to him literally being the globe trotter of crime fighting.
I see what you mean about the timeline not working. No American soldiers were fighting in 'Nam when Jeff rang the bell. I may have to make him even older. WWII worked better for the story arc I was trying to give him. It was supposed to be WWII, liberating a death camp, that forged the valiant, globe trotting, whole sale evil **** whopping defender of humanity.
Later I edited it to make him younger and involved in the same war as Anvil. I may have to play around with him more.
There are few more powerful motivators than trying to live up to the example of your parents.
I rather like the idea of his father serving as a hero in WWI. With Malcom's military life, Jeff grew close to his mother and the communities they lived in were always a source of support for them. Vivian instilled in Jeff an old Italian sense of community and patriotism, as well as a love and tongue for linguistics. My Vanguard is a scholar, linguist and archaeologist.
Malcom being in WWI gave me a brilliant opportunity to revive my old villain, 4th Reich.
Richter Von Kaiser is a senior Nazi official who, after the fall of Hitler (or his CO analog), was tasked with keeping the movement alive and tried to operate from the shadows for decades after before being defeated by the original Northwatch, who Derringer borrowed the name from. That may be changed to Vanguard defeating him now. I sort of want to have Richter fighting in WWI, just as he is budding as a true villain vs a common cog in the machine of war. I want Malcom to, just as an exemplary American soldier, combat his plans from a secret unit of the finest Allied soldiers. I want Richter to kill Malcom during the climax of WWI, and escape to aid in Germany's second attempt.
His father's death overseas contributes to Jeff enrolling (he actually visits a dying member of Malcom's unit and he tells him Richter killed his father in a fevered, dream-like rant) after Pearl Harbor and he becomes a translator. During his time in Europe, he is recruited by the 2nd version of his father's old nazi-buster unit. They unearth a death camp and this greatly influences Vanguard as a human being and the way he views the world.
I wanted the Sinclair family to have the sort of war-time heroism pre-Bell that leans into everything about his character, from the Bell, to the meteor, to him overshadowing his entire super team. I need him to be literally mythical for this to work.
I also need to work on "my" Justice Squardon.
What members do we know of that exist?
My angle here is that, in order to make DotD work, even as the 3rd Watch Dogs story, Vanguard and his team need to be present and established beforehand. The whole idea of the Watch Dogs story was that they are true vigilantes in this Champs system of heroics. They don't answer to UNTIL or PRIMUS. And they don't just try to regulate villains, but heroes as well. They are the Watchdogs of Detroit. So finding a plot where they become at odds with the SJ would almost work perfectly to establish both teams.