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Ally Debuffs and Conditional Effects, how do they work?

h4forumsh4forums Posts: 268 Arc User
in Power Discussion
I've always worked under the assumption that any kind of conditional effect requiring a debuff had to be my own debuff, but is this actually the case? Some conditionals, like Thrash, clearly specify that they have to be my own debuff. However, many conditionals do not specify, and I wonder if its truly required. For example, Incinerate's Burninator adv does bonus damage vs targets affected by clinging flames. Could I get away with relying on an ally's clinging flames, seeing as clinging flames is a fairly common debuff? Or Life Essence's bonus heal when the target is poisoned, do I have to bring my own will o wisp? I'd assume the consume/rupture type conditionals (Mind Break, Rimefire, Tiger's Bite) require my own debuff even though the description doesn't say so, but even then I'm not fully certain.

I understand it is standard to bring my own relevant debuffs. However, if it were possible to rely on ally debuffs, this could allow for some minmaxing of group or duo centric builds.

Comments

  • spookyspectrespookyspectre Posts: 632 Arc User
    I'm pretty sure you can take advantage of other player's debuffs in a number of cases but I don't know how well documented they are. I remember the Devs making changes to one or more powers that consumed debuffs to make them only for the player's debuffs, understandably so. Sorry, not terribly helpful..
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    In general if a power has special effects based on debuffs on the target, those special effects only apply if you own the debuff, though there are probably still a few powers that don't work that way. However, effects that debuff defense are universal (if you apply shredded, everyone's slashing attacks do more damage) though defense debuffs have severe diminishing returns.
    My guide to Teleios Ascendant
    Epic Stronghold
    Block timing explained
  • h4forumsh4forums Posts: 268 Arc User
    Thanks for the replies guys. Its probably too time consuming to manually test which powers' special effects can take advantage of others debuffs, so I'll abandon this line of thinking.
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,075 Arc User
    One that I'm pretty sure of is: if someone else has a standard poison dot on the target and I'm using Life Essence, it will proc the AoE portion of Life Essence.

    However, I'm not sure about the same situation as someone else's FEAR is on the target, will it proc Vampiric Sympathy on Life Drain.

    I'm pretty sure that Clinging Flames and Negative Ions from someone else do not proc if I use the heal aoes that consumes MY clinging flames/negative ions IF I don't have CF/NI on the target.


    Other things to consider, especially since damage debuffs are universal for all attacking the target AND mostly just stack to 3: does MY refresh all _____ affect others' _____? Some, all, or none?

    Similar question about refreshing the DoTs. Does my refresh do them all or just mine? Sometimes, it looks like MY bleed/poison refresh works for all. Sometimes it doesn't. Of course, difficult to tell when someone else uses their refresh.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    Refresh on bleeds/etc only refreshes your duration, but because the remaining duration on the debuff only shows the longest remaining duration, it looks like it's refreshing everything.
    My guide to Teleios Ascendant
    Epic Stronghold
    Block timing explained
  • ansemthedarkansemthedark Posts: 663 Arc User
    It is often confusing, I would like to have an option to only show your buffs and debuffs often, I mean, try to watch out for your debuff on a cosmic open world fight, so many debuffs showing it clips out the screen due to how long the line gets. And or add more lines to them, maybe so they not show all in one line? Yours will be in first line, others in second line.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    ansemthedark wrote: »
    It is often confusing, I would like to have an option to only show your buffs and debuffs often, I mean, try to watch out for your debuff on a cosmic open world fight, so many debuffs showing it clips out the screen due to how long the line gets. And or add more lines to them, maybe so they not show all in one line? Yours will be in first line, others in second line.
    That has been proposed many times. It is apparently difficult.
    My guide to Teleios Ascendant
    Epic Stronghold
    Block timing explained
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,075 Arc User
    ansemthedark wrote: »
    It is often confusing, I would like to have an option to only show your buffs and debuffs often, I mean, try to watch out for your debuff on a cosmic open world fight, so many debuffs showing it clips out the screen due to how long the line gets. And or add more lines to them, maybe so they not show all in one line? Yours will be in first line, others in second line.
    pantagruel01 wrote: »
    ansemthedark wrote: »
    It is often confusing, I would like to have an option to only show your buffs and debuffs often, I mean, try to watch out for your debuff on a cosmic open world fight, so many debuffs showing it clips out the screen due to how long the line gets. And or add more lines to them, maybe so they not show all in one line? Yours will be in first line, others in second line.
    That has been proposed many times. It is apparently difficult.

    Since every player already has a bar that shows the buffs/debuffs personally affecting them, it would seem to require a certain amount of work to create a secondary(?) bar that shows YOUR buffs/debuffs + count that are currently affecting others. This would need to be tracked and I feel it could be a tough thing to do even in a perfect situation.

    I feel that the biggest hurdle is that the buff/debuff bars on players and NPCs are old spaghetti code and therefore EXTREMELY difficult to trace and add to it.

    Personally, I think this is an area that would be time well spent by the Devs to locate, figure out the code for, and add. But, my priorities aren't their priorities. I'm sure they've looked this over several times and determined: too hard, let's just not even try.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
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