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Make petbuilds viable and empower pets.

diggotdiggot Posts: 309 Arc User

I've wanted to test a pet-focused build for quiet some time so i created this theme yesterday.
https://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm?v=38&n=Darkness%20petbuild&d=156710VWYOPN0s1071L000L108L30GMA03LE05L800LG0aLI03LQ03LF0CLD00LB03LK04OT000ckq3TLG0DFo11V1u1y0000&e=

Currently L28 with maxed out AoED, max Horrow and 3/3 points into spec-savage. Yet my Horror pet is barely doing any damage
and if it wasn't for me also damaging the enemies, it would take forever to kill anything, and if i didn't have any healing,
my Horror (which is suppose to heal itself) would be dying repeatedly.

We have no gear that increases pet damage or health directly, only indirectly through specs, and we only have ONE option for spec
to increase the power of pets. Overseer doesn't count because it doens't contain anything specialized towards pets.
And not only are pets devoid of damage, they have no armor/defense to speak of and will die fast if mobbed by
more than 1 enemy of equal level.

We need to have petfocused builds viable and be able to RELY on pets for either damage or healing, depending on spec,
our pets should be the primary source of damage if we spec for them to be damage, and similarly as healers .
If we are focused towards pet-damage spec, our pet(s) needs to be able to do enough damage on their own
to enable the player to get credit on cosmics, and pets should be able to gain the benefits from the player's block-defense,
otherwise they are just cannonfodder for Cosmic AoEs which will 1shot all pets.

Now you can say "spec into the AoE defense of 50% resists to AoE, but that then becomes a MUST have and
greatly reduces the options for the player speccing into anything else.

Just give the pets the block-defense bonus from when players blocks, simply as that.

Another point of petbuilds being utterly broken is that the player can't really buy any endgame gear
that has the same impact on the player's performance but on the pets. You can spend 1500SCR and 750GCR
on a full set of Distinguished but that still won't improve pet performance much, if any at all.

A player with a dps-pet focused build should be able to rely in a single pet to do enough damage
to reach credits on cosmics, doens't matter if it's a fast or slow cosmic.

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    daveyj3daveyj3 Posts: 20 Arc User
    we also need a lot more variety in pet skin options.

    its been suggested a thousand times, and seems easy enough. there's tons of existing in game models and easy to make ideas without having to swap skeletons for animations.
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    diggotdiggot Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited March 2022
    The important thing about dps-pets is that they need to be able to pass the check on Dino,
    otherwise you bring a build to endgame where it has no place being at because it's underperforming.
    Another thing that's very important to improve on the pets is their survivability on the cosmic fights
    and stop them from being 1shotted by the AoE's but giving them the defense bonus from the players
    block when blocking.

    Post edited by diggot on
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    diggotdiggot Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited March 2022
    Some thoughs on the matter of improving the pets.

    Because we don't have any gear that directly increases the performance of the pets,
    my suggestion is that pets has 200% of the stats of the player. For example.

    30% crit chance becomes 60% crit chance.
    100% crit severity becomes 200% severity.
    A player's 8000 health becomes 16.000 health on the pets.
    If a player has 300 Offense, the pet gains 600 Offense and has it's extra damage based on those numbers.
    If a player has 400 Defense, the pet gains 800 Defense, and it's extra damage resists are added.
    When the player Blocks, the pet gains the same amount of damage reduction as long as the block is channeled.

    The damage of the powers on a dps-summon should be that of a dps-build, meaning for example,
    a Void Horrow's melee autoattack should be hitting for the same damage as an unarmed player build,
    while at the same time having access to "blast" attacks which are considered the main source of damage.

    This would mean that in this case, a Void Horrow would be Auto-attacking while using the Blast attack.
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    diggotdiggot Posts: 309 Arc User

    My Char is now L40 with R5mods in full Merc gear.
    R3 Void Horrow.
    R3 AoED in support role with 465PRE.

    And my Void Horrow crits on L35 basic mobs for 600 dmg.. that's very underperforming,
    it should be twice that with an additional 0. Maxed out petbuilds should have their
    pets do the same amount of damage as dps-player does.
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    pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    In the end, pets are passive dps, and passive dps is never going to be high. The only way you'll see pets that put out damage on the level of direct damage from PCs is if managing them is turned into a full time job. Which isn't impossible, but would require a major rework to pet powers and AI.
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    diggotdiggot Posts: 309 Arc User
    In the end, pets are passive dps, and passive dps is never going to be high. The only way you'll see pets that put out damage on the level of direct damage from PCs is if managing them is turned into a full time job. Which isn't impossible, but would require a major rework to pet powers and AI.

    That makes SO many powers utterly useless, as well as the entire commander spec which might as well be
    removed totally from the game in that case. We have SO many pet-summons, powers that atm are just a waste of slot.
    Like i said ingame. We are superpowered heroes and we can summon pets using our powers,
    but our pets are useless ?, think about that for a moment.
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    pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    diggot wrote: »
    That makes SO many powers utterly useless
    You can add a pet to a build that also does something else, and that's what they're balanced against.
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    ansemthedarkansemthedark Posts: 663 Arc User
    If anything, they need survivability, they are made out of paper and ANY AoE kills them instantly, even Sidekicks are not safe from this, see DoT damage from Cosmics like Clarance or Chicken due they not block. Not get me started on stuff like Cybermind's Data Rain and such.
    In the end, pets are passive dps, and passive dps is never going to be high. The only way you'll see pets that put out damage on the level of direct damage from PCs is if managing them is turned into a full time job. Which isn't impossible, but would require a major rework to pet powers and AI.

    I do agree on this also, but then you're better off using a frag grenade or poison DoT or Bleeding, those at least not get canceled, unlike pets that die, and you have re-summon time too. I am better off using ANY DoT ability than any pet right now, honestly.

    Just what is it with MMO's having issues with pets, they not avoid AoE's and at worse aggro things they are not supposed too, they should NOT count as units at all, as much people may not like it and just should be a visual DoT by now with abilities, but not targetable or damageable.

    People are free to give other options tho, I am open for it. I would welcome GOOD pets, them at least having the Sidekick treatment with higher HP and such.
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    diggotdiggot Posts: 309 Arc User

    I'm still of the opinion that a character who's specifically built around pet-damage and boosting
    petbonuses while also being built around keeping pets alive, should be able to rely on pets for damage..
    A build in Support-role should NOT do more damage than maxed pets supported by damage aura.

    Otherwise why bother having pets at all !?.
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    metalheart#4270 metalheart Posts: 1,089 Arc User
    edited March 2022
    Confirmed they not want pets over preforming. Me just wanting my sidekick to get past a simple obstacle to assist...
    nJ54tmw.gifThis Is The Ghetto Gothix
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    diggotdiggot Posts: 309 Arc User
    Confirmed they not want pets over preforming. Me just wanting my sidekick to get past a simple obstacle to assist...

    Being able to make a build depending on pets for damage is NOT overperforming,
    so their reasoning is deeply flawed. If i build a FF specifically for supporting my pets and increasing their
    damage using auras and spec's , the pets should do enough damage for endgame.
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    jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,431 Arc User
    Eh, fixing pets to actually be worth something is probably either beyond the devs' skill level or would take too much time from other things they prefer working on. If anything, they would more likely just make it so that each hero can only take one pet, kind of like an ultimate. I.e. apply a nerf hammer.
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
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    metalheart#4270 metalheart Posts: 1,089 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    Eh, fixing pets to actually be worth something is probably either beyond the devs' skill level or would take too much time from other things they prefer working on. If anything, they would more likely just make it so that each hero can only take one pet, kind of like an ultimate. I.e. apply a nerf hammer.

    Yes, that sounds absolutely horrible. A step backwards it would be.
    nJ54tmw.gifThis Is The Ghetto Gothix
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    jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,431 Arc User
    Just remember what happened to vehicles. Instead of taking time to actually fix the problems and to allow vehicles to have some real use in the game (other than as travel devices) they took the easy route and nerfed them, but didn't remove all the resultingly useless mod drops from game play (I.e. all the mods that don't do anything but enhance speed). Attracting dev attention to an issue doesn't necessarily lead to improvements.
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
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    diggotdiggot Posts: 309 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    Attracting dev attention to an issue doesn't necessarily lead to improvements.

    That's just bad development, taking the easy way out.

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    jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,431 Arc User
    diggot wrote: »
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    Attracting dev attention to an issue doesn't necessarily lead to improvements.

    That's just bad development, taking the easy way out.

    Yes. I'm not arguing for or against improving pet builds, only saying that players don't necessarily get what they are imagining once they actually do get the dev's attention on an issue. I well remember all the screaming from players who had sunk real money into kitting out their favorite vehicles only to see them nerfed, once the devs hand noticed some issues.
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
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    Also let Enchantment and Confuse go back to working on Pets in PvP
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