Is it possible to recreate a Superman/Wonder Woman type character any longer?

professor · November 2021

I have been away from Champions Online for a few years. Having returned, it seems like everything changed around 2019 (give or take a year) and I'm trying to figure out the new order of things. It would seem that building a tough character like Superman or Wonder Woman that can also dish out damage is not an option. From what I'm seeing, I have to either build a melee DPS character that can dish it out, a tank who can take it, or a character that is sort of the middle, not so good at either one. Am I missing something, or is that how things stack up? If so, are there any builds out there that you can share that would approximate classic characters like Supes or Wonder Woman? Thanks in advance for any help offered.

flowcyto · November 2021

Sounds like you want something from an online multiplayer game (that's trying to be balanced) that it can't give you *shrug*. In terms of just the abilities, Supes in CO would basically just be a Might/Haymaker build, which are relatively common and don't take much effort to search for examples of. I will also say that a power like Eye Beams is still not a good idea to add to such builds, cause the power is a slotted PA toggle in CO, which triggers power lockouts and would be weak on its own. Otherwise, in CO you'd likely just be a flying Brick that likes punching things and that can be defense-focused, dmg-focused, or some middle ground, but not all-powerful all at once.

To be fair, much of the content in CO is pretty easy; you could be effectively 'OP' if you're just doing easier casual_solo PvE content.

professor · November 2021

flowcyto wrote: »

Sounds like you want something from an online multiplayer game (that's trying to be balanced) that it can't give you *shrug*. In terms of just the abilities, Supes in CO would basically just be a Might/Haymaker build, which are relatively common and don't take much effort to search for examples of. I will also say that a power like Eye Beams is still not a good idea to add to such builds, cause the power is a slotted PA toggle in CO, which triggers power lockouts and would be weak on its own. Otherwise, in CO you'd likely just be a flying Brick that likes punching things and that can be defense-focused, dmg-focused, or some middle ground, but not all-powerful all at once.

To be fair, much of the content in CO is pretty easy; you could be effectively 'OP' if you're just doing easier casual_solo PvE content.

Thanks, flowcyto. I appreciate your feedback. It confirms what I was seeing, that it's either one or the other.

flowcyto · November 2021

Sure thing. I guess that I mine as well throw in a quick example Might build for you, in case you decide to stick w/ it. The build will be a Hybrid-dps that's pretty versatile and fine for most content, but is still technically middle-of-the-road in its approach. Whether that will prove satisfactory enough I guess is just up to you:

(Unnamed Build) - Freeform (Hybrid)
v3.44:37

Super Stats
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Behemoth (Str: 10, Con: 10, Rec: 10, End: 8)
Level 6: Paramilitary Training (Str: 3, Con: 3, Rec: 3, End: 3)
Level 9: Relentless (Str: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Bodybuilder (Str: 5, End: 5)
Level 21: Physical Conditioning (Str: 5, Con: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Power Bolts
Level 1: Defensive Combo (Rank 2, Rank 3, Pummel)
Level 6: Enrage
Level 8: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Pulverizer
Level 14: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 17: Demolish (Rank 2, Below the Belt)
Level 20: Havoc Stomp (Rank 2, Major Impact)
Level 23: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Mighty Leap (Nailed to the Ground)
Level 29: Endorphin Rush (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Retaliation (Rank 2)
Level 35: Fiery Embrace
Level 38: Unleashed Rage (Rank 2)
Adv. Points: 33/36

Travel Powers
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations
Strength: Swole (2/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (1/3)
Strength: Overpower (2/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Slaughter (2/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

Havoc Stomp can be charged to deal some burst pbAoE dmg, and to knock nearby enemies further into you (thanks to its Major Impact adv), while Defense Combo's cleave can be your main filler AoE (and it'll also give you a dmg shield; the Pummel adv allows it to knock for Enrage and Pulverizer, so it's good to have here). For single-target dps, you can charge Demolish to put up (and refresh) its debuff, while charged Haymaker is your main filler attack. UR as the Ultimate can also be thrown in for a bit of burst dmg, in any case. There are other attacks that you could consider adding (like Uppercut and/or Roomsweper, or Shockwave w/ its pull-in adv instead of Havoc Stomp) but this should cover the basics. Gears mostly for Str, w/ some Con and Rec (and some cost discount on gear).

If you decide not to stick w/ such a build (or even w/ CO in general) then that's fine too. Have fun out there, regardless.

warcanch · November 2021

From an aesthetics point of view, try and pick an Energy Builder that can be set to come from the HEAD, which I think, is why Flow has Power Bolts . It can give you a bit of a feel of Eye beams. Not a perfect solution, but something to consider.

flowcyto · November 2021

Nah, I just got Power Bolts to have a rather generic ranged energy builder (although overall it doesn't really matter that much what was chosen there; you could just take Might's energy builder instead, for example). It's not a constant beam effect, but you could consider the different emanation options for it as a small perk to getting it, sure.

professor · November 2021

Thanks, guys! I appreciate the advice! In mentioning Superman as a reference, I was not so much concerned in modeling him with his eye beams, frost breath, etc., as I was in trying to get a handle on whether it was possible to build a character that was high dps as well as high defense. Flowcyto confirmed what I had picked up in my reading: that in order to maintain game balance, these two characteristics (damage and defense) are on a sliding scale. I have been looking at the two archetypes of Behemoth and Wrecker to try to learn and get a handle on the two approaches, as well as various freeform builds.

Your suggested build above, Flowcyto, as a hybrid-dps is helpful. I had found another one of your Might builds (reproduced below) that I suspect is strong in dps but might struggle in survivability, especially if soloing. Your build above might be preferable fin that department, I would guess.

(Unnamed Build) - Freeform (Melee Damage)
v3.44:36

Super Stats
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Behemoth (Str: 10, Con: 10, Rec: 10, End: 8)
Level 6: Paramilitary Training (Str: 3, Con: 3, Rec: 3, End: 3)
Level 9: Relentless (Str: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 15: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
Level 18: Physical Conditioning (Str: 5, Con: 5)
Level 21: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Unstoppable (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Pulverizer
Level 8: Enrage
Level 11: Demolish (Rank 2, Below the Belt)
Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Uppercut (Setup, Reckless Endangerment)
Level 20: Shockwave (Rank 2, Power Shift)
Level 23: Haymaker (Rank 2, Reckless Strikes)
Level 26: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 29: Mighty Leap (Nailed to the Ground)
Level 32: Retaliation (Rank 2)
Level 35: Fiery Embrace
Level 38: Catastrophic Pummeling (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 34/36

Travel Powers
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations
Strength: Swole (2/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (1/3)
Strength: Overpower (2/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Upper Hand (2/3)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

jaazaniah1 · November 2021

The leveling experience in this game (especially for FF builds that can take whatever heals they want) is pretty easy, even for a glass cannon dps. You can pretty much use almost any build you want to get to 40. Once you are at 40 and have to do more group oriented combats (at least if you want the higher end endgame gear) you will feel more type cast by roles. In a way, the good news is that if you are glass cannon dps there's going to be a tank around to take the heat off of you. I.e. there's no reason to worry about both high damage and high defenses.

If you want to try to solo more difficult content (e.g. QWZ dailies) then you can go the dual passive route. I.e. in your build above, drop uppercut and take invulnerabilty instead and have one duplicate piece of gear that stacks con. Boom, you are good to go. You won't do as much damage in your tank build as in your glass cannon build, but you'll have an easier time soloing stuff. However, the devs don't like high end content to really be soloable (QWZ dailies are the main exception). They prefer players to have to team up for end game missions, so most of the time you wouldn't even need a dual passive build, unless you want to be able to show up and be able to fill one of two roles (though you might want two complete sets of gear for that, one for tanking and one for dps).

professor · November 2021

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

The leveling experience in this game (especially for FF builds that can take whatever heals they want) is pretty easy, even for a glass cannon dps. You can pretty much use almost any build you want to get to 40. Once you are at 40 and have to do more group oriented combats (at least if you want the higher end endgame gear) you will feel more type cast by roles. In a way, the good news is that if you are glass cannon dps there's going to be a tank around to take the heat off of you. I.e. there's no reason to worry about both high damage and high defenses.

If you want to try to solo more difficult content (e.g. QWZ dailies) then you can go the dual passive route. I.e. in your build above, drop uppercut and take invulnerabilty instead and have one duplicate piece of gear that stacks con. Boom, you are good to go. You won't do as much damage in your tank build as in your glass cannon build, but you'll have an easier time soloing stuff. However, the devs don't like high end content to really be soloable (QWZ dailies are the main exception). They prefer players to have to team up for end game missions, so most of the time you wouldn't even need a dual passive build, unless you want to be able to show up and be able to fill one of two roles (though you might want two complete sets of gear for that, one for tanking and one for dps).

Hi, Jaazaniah. Thanks for this. It's a very helpful insight on the game's progression and on the gaming mechanics of character builds and character roles. I suppose that is what the Build Tabs are for? To have hot-swappable setups with different gear for different roles? I assume that the powers themselves can't be changed with Build Tab swaps, only gear?

flowcyto · November 2021

Yea, you can use the Builds tabs for quickly swapping between various aspects (even non-power related stuff like different costumes). You can't change your build's core (powers, SS's, talents, specs) w/ it, ofc, but you can change most other things about a character w/ it (including Role, gear, ability hotbar layout, slotted passive choice, etc).

The other build of mine you posted is fine too, but it's more of a committed dps build atm that will be a bit more squishy (and have considerably more base dps). Jaaz's suggestion for a dual-passive approach is good if you want to have the option of picking your focus for more flexibility, though you can still only have one setup active at a time. I may keep Defense Combo in there for its dmg shield, and just make room for the 2nd slotted passive somewhere, if you want to go down that route. For example:

(Unnamed Build) - Freeform (Any / Multiple)
v3.44:37

Super Stats
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Behemoth (Str: 10, Con: 10, Rec: 10, End: 8)
Level 6: Paramilitary Training (Str: 3, Con: 3, Rec: 3, End: 3)
Level 9: Relentless (Str: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Bodybuilder (Str: 5, End: 5)
Level 21: Physical Conditioning (Str: 5, Con: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Defensive Combo (Rank 2, Rank 3, Pummel)
Level 6: Enrage
Level 8: Unstoppable (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Pulverizer
Level 14: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 17: Demolish (Rank 2, Below the Belt)
Level 20: Shockwave (Rank 2, Power Shift)
Level 23: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Endorphin Rush (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Mighty Leap
Level 35: Retaliation (Rank 2)
Level 38: Fiery Embrace
Adv. Points: 33/36

Travel Powers
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations
Strength: Swole (2/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (1/3)
Strength: Overpower (2/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Slaughter (2/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

Similar to my first build, but has the option of either being tankier in the Hybrid role w/ Invuln or more dmg-focused w/ Unstoppable in the Melee dps role. Also have Shockwave as a wide AoE here, replacing Havoc Stomp, but otherwise it'll play pretty similarly to my first build. As mentioned, you can gear for a bit more Con for the Hybrid-Invuln setup, and more for Str in the melee dps setup, if you want to specialize the two different setups a bit more.

professor · November 2021

Wow, this has been an embarrassment of riches in the advice that you all have provided! I’m very grateful.

Is it possible to recreate a Superman/Wonder Woman type character any longer?

Comments