Help me understand Diminishing Returns

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  flowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User

  September 2021 edited September 2021

  It depends on what your goals are for the build and/or what problems you may be currently facing w/ it. If you find that you are having considerable energy issues, then at least in the short-term you should get more of the energy unlock's stat (End, in this case), while in better gear you can mostly resolve energy issues by gearing for the toggle/form's main stat (and having some cost discount on gear), since the toggle/form also (usually) returns energy. For the high end, most dps builds will help to optimize their dmg by dumping all (or most) of their stat allocation into their toggle/form's main stat (which ofc should also be SS'd; in this case that's Ego), and getting Dex SS'd if they haven't already. If survival is the issue, then getting Con and/or Pres SS'd (if using self-heals that scale w/ Pres) and gearing more for one of those can potentially help there, at least in terms of stats.
  
  Ofc there could be solutions to some problems that don't involve stats or gearing, like how healing powers, ADs, healing devices, ranked block enhancers, threat wipes, CC, and/or self-rezes can potentially help w/ survival issues.
  
  For Primary Offense gear as a dps unit, you typically want to have one bonus for crit rating and one for crit severity rating (and for optimal dps builds, aiming for a DUC mod), due to the DRs for either (the DR is heavier for severity rating than for crit rating, but there's also less sources of severity rating). Also, keep in mind that the flat %age increases to crit and/or severity in many specs are also not affected by DRs. Primary Defense gear is usually going to be for more maxHP and/or more defense (maxHP usually better in the context of having heals around, though more defense can be okay if you have some '+% defense from gear' specs)- w/ the exception being the odd dodge/avoid build (usually you wouldn't want to depend on dodge as a dps, though). Primary Utility for a dps ideally gets a +dmg mod for w/e powerset(s) you are using (in this case, the Venomous mod for Infenral) and/or a mix of cd reduction and cost discount (cost discount can help if you are using more expensive attacks; while cd reduction is nice if you have many notable cd powers). 2ndary gear can follow similar reasoning, though there's less potential for customization there.
  
  If you haven't read it already, then Kamo's guide to high-end dps builds can be a good general resource:
  https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/1208228/endgame-dps-build-guide/p1

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

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  omnius

  omnius#0640

  Posts: 204 Arc User

  September 2021

  Would this look about right then for my build? The reason I put the Precision gloves is because even with those, plus a +crit mod, that still only has me at around 30% crit chance so I wasn't going to bother with severity (which is at 102% without any gear or mods). My REC is abysmally low with this setup, so I was wondering if I should replace 1 or 2 of the Ego+End mods with End+Rec, what do you think? I probably have enough REC with no mods at all to start my first Blast, Wisp, or Epidemic to get my energy returns rolling so I'm not sure if I should just ignore REC mods completely. I only have slight energy issues right now just wearing Fortuitous Primary and Armadillo secondary gear, but I also have 1 cost discount mod slotted currently and the suggestion below doesn't have that.
  
  Do I have too much EGO from mods? If I dropped one of them I could fit in a Cost Reduction multicore mod in one of my Primary Utility mod slots. Assuming R5-R6 mods for everything. My secondary gear is the Armadillo set so there's not huge bonuses to SS from those (+19 PSS and +8.5 SS per piece). This setup has larger EGO from mods than what I'm currently wearing but my END from mods would go down by about 55
  
  Primary Offense: Heroic Gloves of Precision (+crit)
  Offense slot: +crit
  Enhancement slot: Ego
  Enhancement slot: Ego
  
  Primary Defense: Heroic Breastplate of Greater Health (+health bonus)
  Armoring: Ego
  Armoring: Ego+End
  Defense: +HP
  
  Primary Utility: Heroic Helm of Efficiency (Cost Discount)
  Enhancement: Ego
  Armoring: Ego+End
  Utility: Venomous (Does this mod fit in this slot?)
  
  

  Unholy Consult | Pantheon | Lazarus Frost | Sword Saint | Gammatron | Blackguard | Imperator | Sardaukar | Risen Osiris

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  flowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User

  September 2021

  (Yes, Venomous will fit in a Utility slot. Those +dmg mods for specific sets were added to expand the options one could use in Utility gear, and it's a way to further optimize dmg for dps builds.)
  
  Some added Rec can be good to help w/ resting energy. A minor mod or 2ndary gear w/ some Rec in it can work, but I wouldn't go much further there, since Rec isn't SS'd and doesn't scale up Mephitic as well as End. Ego is your best dps stat here, so I'm not really sure what you mean by wondering if you have 'too much' of it- unless you mean that you still need more energy regen and/or want more Con for the maxHP boost? You could get more End to help w/ your energy, though upgrading your 2ndaries can help w/ that too (since the 2ndary utility piece can have cost discount as well). As for getting more Con- well, that's just up to you as that's the usual choice of dps vs. survival.
  
  The Armadillo 2ndary set is fine for leveling, but loses its luster a bit at max level, since you can't get extra stats like crit rating or cost discount from heirloom-styled gear like that. Assuming you're at lvl 40 already, I'd prob replace that set with lvl 37-40 Rare (blue) or Unique (purple) 2ndaries that have the SS's_stats you want, and you can typically find those in the AH for relatively cheap. I would also still consider getting a severity rating bonus; it's not going to make a big difference compared to getting more crit rating, but it will likely still be a bit more optimal since you're not into severity rating's DR (by not having any severity rating yet).

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

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  omnius

  omnius#0640

  Posts: 204 Arc User

  September 2021

  ok thanks. By "too much" Ego I was just wondering if there's diminishing returns on PSS that's all. Still kinda confused about how DR works in general. I'll look at replacements for Armadillo, I just really like that 25% damage reduction lol. Primaries are likely going to remain Heroic because I despise grinding any higher than that tier

  Unholy Consult | Pantheon | Lazarus Frost | Sword Saint | Gammatron | Blackguard | Imperator | Sardaukar | Risen Osiris

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  flowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User

  September 2021 edited September 2021

  Yea, Heroic gear is fine for max level, esp if you aren't going to be doing much higher-end content w/ it. As far as Ego and the DR, I assume you mean the DR for general dmg bonuses, and it's a bit weird of a curve, but last I checked DR starts to kick in around +100% total dmg bonuses (SS's, toggle/form, slotted passives, etc), and just gets higher as you stack more. I think the data I collected in this quite old thread still applies (ignore the comments relating to the ATs DR in it), if you want a more detailed breakdown w/ some data points (and Jimhsua helped fit it to a rough formula back then):
  https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/251010/archetypes-diminishing-returns-specifics/p1
  
  The old thread from Ayonachan (in my sig) also has some extra data and (eventually) some data fitting for some other DR curves, if you're interested.

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

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