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To Siphon strike or not? TK ranged dps

This is the ranged TK build I'm working on:

1st question: I tend to enjoy tackling quite a bit of farming stuff solo and have zero intentions of doing Rampages but will do some cosmics. That advantage would be pretty helpful for the solo stuff and I don't think my DPS when teamed will suffer too much if I swap Rank2 out for Siphon on my Telekinetic Strike. Thoughts?

My 2nd question is my superstats. I was going DEX PSS because that's what Mental Precision scales from. I have CON as a secondary for survivability but now I'm wondering if I should've gone EGO instead for a secondary superstat. Does EGO grant much of a difference as a secondary to care about for other alerts and cosmics that aren't rampages, or just stick with DEX/REC/CON?
Unholy Consult | Pantheon | Lazarus Frost | Sword Saint | Gammatron | Blackguard | Imperator | Sardaukar | Risen Osiris

Comments

  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    Your single-target dps will lower a bit w/ siphoning, but the majority of your dmg will still come from TK Lance, so it's prob a fine trade-off if you like the self-healing enough. Ego as an SS won't add that much in content where you already get AoPM aura(s), but it can help a bit more when solo or in some smaller groups, and/or when your gear is weaker. I would still prob go w/ DEX/Rec/Con for a build that's doing different types of cotnent, but it's ultimately up to you.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • omnius#0640 omnius Posts: 204 Arc User
    flowcyto wrote: »
    Your single-target dps will lower a bit w/ siphoning, but the majority of your dmg will still come from TK Lance, so it's prob a fine trade-off if you like the self-healing enough. Ego as an SS won't add that much in content where you already get AoPM aura(s), but it can help a bit more when solo or in some smaller groups, and/or when your gear is weaker. I would still prob go w/ DEX/Rec/Con for a build that's doing different types of cotnent, but it's ultimately up to you.

    I'd mostly be soloing dailies and AP's and teaming for cosmics for Q, GCS/SCS and ending my grind at Distinguished because I don't want to do Rampages (basically because I know I won't ever put the time into the drops for Justice drops). I just wanted to know if taking Ego rather than CON as a secondary superstat would be more worth it for the extra TK ranged damage or whether it wouldn't.

    As far as siphoning strikes goes, same reasoning as above. I'm not a hardcore player so if it's not a major DPS drop to take that advantage given the content I'm playing listed above, but adds to my survivability when solo, would it be worthwhile?
    Unholy Consult | Pantheon | Lazarus Frost | Sword Saint | Gammatron | Blackguard | Imperator | Sardaukar | Risen Osiris
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    Well, if I take a partial TK build on the PTS w/ ~630 Dex and the dmg bonuses from specs (Guardicator), talents, toggle/form (Mental Prec), and slotted passive (R3 Ego Form), then changing Con SS to Ego SS only boosted final tooltip dmg by about 3.8% at 1x toggle/form stack (would be less if I added full toggle/from stacks and/or added AoPM, due to the dmg DRs). That seems kinda small to me, but if you never actually need the extra maxHP then Con SS isn't really of much value either.

    Siphoning is a bit more up in the air, since the self-healing is a bit rng, but can be pretty strong, yet it does hurt your single-target dmg (which is the main focus for cosmics). I don't know how much of a dps hit it would be atm (you'd have to parse the differences yourself to know for sure), but comparing that to rng healing is a good bit more subjective by nature. If you do spend most of your time soloing, then perhaps you should just take siphoning for an easier time there. Even if you aren't optimal dps for cosmics, you can still fare fine then as long as you know the fights well enough.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • omnius#0640 omnius Posts: 204 Arc User
    ok I'll prob just stick with CON for now since I'm new and kinda suck lol so the extra HP definitely can't hurt. I can always respec it in the future when I get more comfortable if I decide to. Thanks!
    Unholy Consult | Pantheon | Lazarus Frost | Sword Saint | Gammatron | Blackguard | Imperator | Sardaukar | Risen Osiris
  • omnius#0640 omnius Posts: 204 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    flowcyto wrote: »
    Well, if I take a partial TK build on the PTS w/ ~630 Dex and the dmg bonuses from specs (Guardicator), talents, toggle/form (Mental Prec), and slotted passive (R3 Ego Form), then changing Con SS to Ego SS only boosted final tooltip dmg by about 3.8% at 1x toggle/form stack (would be less if I added full toggle/from stacks and/or added AoPM, due to the dmg DRs). That seems kinda small to me, but if you never actually need the extra maxHP then Con SS isn't really of much value either.

    Siphoning is a bit more up in the air, since the self-healing is a bit rng, but can be pretty strong, yet it does hurt your single-target dmg (which is the main focus for cosmics). I don't know how much of a dps hit it would be atm (you'd have to parse the differences yourself to know for sure), but comparing that to rng healing is a good bit more subjective by nature. If you do spend most of your time soloing, then perhaps you should just take siphoning for an easier time there. Even if you aren't optimal dps for cosmics, you can still fare fine then as long as you know the fights well enough.

    I tweaked it out a little more and yeah, I can't really justify the DPS hit to one of my only 2 ranged single target attacks considering the optimal rotation now is supposed to be Strike x3 > Lance. I really like the idea of TK Maelstrom as a handy utility power so I slapped Inner Peace on it which will give me 2 instant heals plus this little added bonus over time. Newbie question, but which of the heals in this build can crit heal, if any? And in general does this look pretty solid now, or would you tweak anything else? I could replace TK maelstrom with a self rez but I think I'll get more frequent benefit from TKM's utility overall, generally speaking

    TK ranged - Freeform (Ranged Damage)
    v3.44:37

    Super Stats
    Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
    Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
    Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

    Talents
    Level 1: The Chiller (Dex: 10, Con: 10, Rec: 8, End: 10)
    Level 6: Impresario (Dex: 5, Rec: 5)
    Level 9: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
    Level 12: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
    Level 15: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)
    Level 18: Accurate (Dex: 5, End: 5)
    Level 21: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)

    Powers
    Level 1: Kinetic Darts
    Level 1: Telekinetic Strike (Rank 2, Stressed Out)
    Level 6: Mental Precision
    Level 8: Ego Form (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 11: Telekinetic Barrage (Rank 2, Dazzle)
    Level 14: Telekinetic Lance (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 20: Telekinetic Reverberation
    Level 23: Resurgence (Rank 2)
    Level 26: Telekinetic Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 29: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
    Level 32: Mind Wipe
    Level 35: Telekinetic Maelstrom (Expansive Intellect, Inner Peace)
    Level 38: Mental Impact (Rank 2)
    Adv. Points: 36/36

    Travel Powers
    Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35:

    Specializations
    Dexterity: Combat Training (2/3)
    Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
    Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
    Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
    Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
    Guardian: Find the Mark (3/3)
    Guardian: The Best Defense (2/3)
    Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

    Devices
    Unholy Consult | Pantheon | Lazarus Frost | Sword Saint | Gammatron | Blackguard | Imperator | Sardaukar | Risen Osiris
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,069 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    Two suggestions:

    1. You don't get much dps from Telekinetic Strike to make it worth ranking. Remove r2 and put in Siphoning Strike.
    2. Passive suggestion: Shadow Form. Still buffs your powers but you get a little health back when hit, once every 3 seconds. Or is that when YOU do damage? I forget which.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    A self-res could be nice if you find that you're still dying to cosmic fights, but it's up to you, as TK Maelstrom is a good power to have overall (you wouldn't necessarily have to get rid of TKM for another power anyways, as you could replace a power like Ego Surge instead). As far as the heals, only Conviction can crit, but the other heals can ofc still be good (esp Resurgence). The build looks pretty good overall for a general ranged TK dps unit.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • omnius#0640 omnius Posts: 204 Arc User
    > @warcanch said:
    > Two suggestions:
    >
    > 1. You don't get much dps from Telekinetic Strike to make it worth ranking. Remove r2 and put in Siphoning Strike.

    The reason I'm sweating that decision is I lose DPS twice: Once from losing R2, which as you say isn't a huge deal. But also it's a DEX build and Siphoning Strikes converts damage crits to healing (according to the game description anyway). So I'm losing out on both extra damage and crit damage. What makes that a problem decision is that the ideal TK rotation now is 3x TK Strike > TK Lance so I'd be pulling 2 DPS sources out of one of the 2 main attacks in my rotation. Is that 3rd heal source worth the trade-off?

    As @flowcyto said, I'd have to parse it to be sure but tbh I'm just not as knowledgeable about mechanics so I'm kinda leaning on his impressions right now. I've had someone tell me they hit top 10 DPS with Siphon but they were way more experienced and I'm fresh out of the tutorial lol. I have a good general grasp of how MMOs work but I haven't played CO since around 2011 and that old account is gone with the wind
    Unholy Consult | Pantheon | Lazarus Frost | Sword Saint | Gammatron | Blackguard | Imperator | Sardaukar | Risen Osiris
  • omnius#0640 omnius Posts: 204 Arc User
    > @flowcyto said:
    > A self-res could be nice if you find that you're still dying to cosmic fights, but it's up to you, as TK Maelstrom is a good power to have overall (you wouldn't necessarily have to get rid of TKM for another power anyways, as you could replace a power like Ego Surge instead). As far as the heals, only Conviction can crit, but the other heals can ofc still be good (esp Resurgence). The build looks pretty good overall for a general ranged TK dps unit.

    So the tl;dr version is that most of the mileage I'd get out of a self rez on cooldown would be cosmics? I'm going to have to rethink that power choice on all my toons because those are more fun than a serious grind for me. I'm already leaning hard towards capping my gear grind at SCR stuff and calling it a day. I'd never use it for solo dailies either because I'd simply respawn
    Unholy Consult | Pantheon | Lazarus Frost | Sword Saint | Gammatron | Blackguard | Imperator | Sardaukar | Risen Osiris
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    Yea, you don't really need a self-res for most content in the game; it'd be mostly for the more challenging high-end group stuff, if anything. You could always train Ego Surge (or TKM) last, and that way if you want to trade it for a self-res at max level then it won't cost that much to retrain.

    Most solo/leveling content in the game is pretty easy, but you are also relatively new, so I would just leave the option of siphoning open-ended. I'm guessing that you prob wouldn't need it usually, but if you are having issues w/ survival (like, say, when doing Alerts or Cosmics) then you could consider it.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    Oh, and you may not have Mental Impact (the Ult) available, since it's one of the powers that was in a lockbox (many of the Ult powers are like this). If you don't have it yet, then you could buy it in the AH or get it via trading w/ another player.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • omnius#0640 omnius Posts: 204 Arc User
    sounds good, I'll do that thanks :)
    Unholy Consult | Pantheon | Lazarus Frost | Sword Saint | Gammatron | Blackguard | Imperator | Sardaukar | Risen Osiris
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,069 Arc User
    > @warcanch said:
    > Two suggestions:
    >
    > 1. You don't get much dps from Telekinetic Strike to make it worth ranking. Remove r2 and put in Siphoning Strike.

    The reason I'm sweating that decision is I lose DPS twice: Once from losing R2, which as you say isn't a huge deal. But also it's a DEX build and Siphoning Strikes converts damage crits to healing (according to the game description anyway). So I'm losing out on both extra damage and crit damage. What makes that a problem decision is that the ideal TK rotation now is 3x TK Strike > TK Lance so I'd be pulling 2 DPS sources out of one of the 2 main attacks in my rotation. Is that 3rd heal source worth the trade-off?

    As @flowcyto said, I'd have to parse it to be sure but tbh I'm just not as knowledgeable about mechanics so I'm kinda leaning on his impressions right now. I've had someone tell me they hit top 10 DPS with Siphon but they were way more experienced and I'm fresh out of the tutorial lol. I have a good general grasp of how MMOs work but I haven't played CO since around 2011 and that old account is gone with the wind

    Telekinetic Strike is a COMBO power. Combo powers aren't intended for dps purposes, usually. They are there to supply a buff, or debuff, or some other utility purpose, such as something in the Spec trees. So, even if you went r3 and skipped the other 2 things, TK Strike will not be your dps power. Oh sure, it can kill weak mobs quickly and that is fine.

    Think of combo powers as just a tick above your Energy builder. Maybe a bit more, but you don't want to be counting on that power to dps down harder mobs.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • omnius#0640 omnius Posts: 204 Arc User
    warcanch wrote: »
    Telekinetic Strike is a COMBO power. Combo powers aren't intended for dps purposes, usually. They are there to supply a buff, or debuff, or some other utility purpose, such as something in the Spec trees. So, even if you went r3 and skipped the other 2 things, TK Strike will not be your dps power. Oh sure, it can kill weak mobs quickly and that is fine.

    Think of combo powers as just a tick above your Energy builder. Maybe a bit more, but you don't want to be counting on that power to dps down harder mobs.​​

    So does that mean my single target DPS as ranged TK is all about TK Lance? I'm just going off of the DPS sticky in the builds/roles forum and the single target rotation is just Strike x3 and then charged Lance
    Unholy Consult | Pantheon | Lazarus Frost | Sword Saint | Gammatron | Blackguard | Imperator | Sardaukar | Risen Osiris
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    Yea, well I said at the start:
    Your single-target dps will lower a bit w/ siphoning, but the majority of your dmg will still come from TK Lance, so it's prob a fine trade-off if you like the self-healing enough.
    It's just my opinion, ofc, but after getting a bit more info/feedback from you, I think I'd still hold to that basic assessment of it.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • omnius#0640 omnius Posts: 204 Arc User
    good thing I kept that slot open like you suggested then ;)
    Unholy Consult | Pantheon | Lazarus Frost | Sword Saint | Gammatron | Blackguard | Imperator | Sardaukar | Risen Osiris
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,069 Arc User
    warcanch wrote: »
    Telekinetic Strike is a COMBO power. Combo powers aren't intended for dps purposes, usually. They are there to supply a buff, or debuff, or some other utility purpose, such as something in the Spec trees. So, even if you went r3 and skipped the other 2 things, TK Strike will not be your dps power. Oh sure, it can kill weak mobs quickly and that is fine.

    Think of combo powers as just a tick above your Energy builder. Maybe a bit more, but you don't want to be counting on that power to dps down harder mobs.

    So does that mean my single target DPS as ranged TK is all about TK Lance? I'm just going off of the DPS sticky in the builds/roles forum and the single target rotation is just Strike x3 and then charged Lance

    Yes. Charged Lance should bring your Ego Leech stacks back to 2 right after the charged shot. TK Strikes adds 1 more stack per hit, which is why you go 3x to achieve max Ego Leech stacks. THEN you charge up TK Lance. rinse repeat.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
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