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Skullcrusher makes me incredible Sad and I can't get over it

avianosavianos Posts: 5,567 Arc User
edited April 2021 in Power Discussion
I have been wanting to LIKE and USE this power, but Devs won't let me because I feel they refuse to acknowledge its existance and buff it!
We finally got some Decent HAMMERS in CO, Foxbatcon gave us Sludgehammer recently and I really wanted to dig a character's concept with using it and... I remember why I hated Skullcrusher!'s performance

I know by design Skullcrusher is an AOE power, but I feel it's underperforming compared to the other AOE powers in the set, becoming a really inferior Heavy Weapons power

  • Is the Put Them Down ADV (+15% Damage against Disoriented) even works properly? Someone please test it if you are ablet to run the Parse
  • It has Horrible AOE Range: 10 feet; 3 foot Cylinder, making it inferior to Brimstone and Arc of Ruin
    and despite having the same range with Skewer , Rank 3 Skewer + Follow Throught ADV gives me 8000-9000+ on critical, making it a nice alternative DPS to Annihilate!
    Skewer is really Decent power in fact, I have 2 Skewer HW DPS in fact
  • Skullcrusher and Brimstone are both powers that deal their damage splitted between Crushing and Fire damage! Yet Brimstone has stronger values for both and superior aoe Range thanks for being Point Blank AOE
    Skullcrusher's Tooltip somehow will always deals 200-300 LESS than Brimstone!
    WHY? Why it underperforms so much compared to Brimstone
  • Even with being CHEESY and stacking 4 different Debuffs (No Quarter, Demolish, Armor Piercing and Firesnake) the power barely gets to 8000 critical!
  • If the character's model and camera are not allign with the character you are attacking, the animation keeps glitching out
    That's the sacrifice for making the power not root you like Annihilate i guess
  • This Power was NOT acknowledged during neither the Heavy Weapons nor Might Revamps, and even Brimstone got the spotlight AGAIN recently with getting new ADVs

This is not the suggest section of the forums but I would like to see the Put Them Down ADV getting BUFFED from +15% to _25% or +30% or a 2point adv (having to sacrifice rank 2) which gives it a boost when it meets certain critiria
, making it a decent alternative to Annihilator and Skewer, and for people who want to use it as main DPS power!

I want this power to be good, both as AOE and Decent Single Target choice like Skewer​​
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point
An Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable but farms way to much to archieve that
Playing as EVERYTHING but Superheroesm! Playing since 1 February 2011
Currently playing with 86+ Characters (7 ATs, 79 FFs) Loving all of them, ALTitis for Life! Run out of unique FF builds!

Comments

  • ansemthedarkansemthedark Posts: 606 Arc User
    Doesn't it do double damage tho? Can't complain about it, when I played with it. Maybe I am just not that number hungry and if it works for general content it works for me as it is I guess. But I think my attacks can do twice 4,5k critical damage with it with debuffs and all. And that with common blue and green gear and rank 5 mods. Correct me if I am wrong tho, using Unstoppable with it on a melee character.
  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,567 Arc User
    edited April 2021
    Doesn't it do double damage tho? Can't complain about it, when I played with it. Maybe I am just not that number hungry and if it works for general content it works for me as it is I guess. But I think my attacks can do twice 4,5k critical damage with it with debuffs and all. And that with common blue and green gear and rank 5 mods. Correct me if I am wrong tho, using Unstoppable with it on a melee character.
    Double Damage?
    You mean the power's core damage being split between Crushing and Fire? Well that's not a good thing though!
    I mean Typhoon also split it's damage between Crushing and Cold, even if Typhoon is actually good this hurts the damage c

    Even if Unstoppable buffs any damage type of melee powers and using No Quarter, the damage type values between Crushing and Fire is still uneven

    also once again, Skullcrusher has too many drawbacks compared to Brimstone and Skewer
    But I think my attacks can do twice 4,5k critical damage with it with debuffs and all. And that with common blue and green gear and rank 5 mods. Correct me if I am wrong tho, using Unstoppable with it on a melee character.
    Barely, I feel like the power gets hit hard by Dimished Returns! Hell even stacking 4 debuffs showed some really unsatisfying DPS boosts

    Even with testing it on PTS with Distiguished gear, Depleted Uranium Core and Rank 9 Heavy Weapons Utility mode, it suffers from getting 8000+ damage in total​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point
    An Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable but farms way to much to archieve that
    Playing as EVERYTHING but Superheroesm! Playing since 1 February 2011
    Currently playing with 86+ Characters (7 ATs, 79 FFs) Loving all of them, ALTitis for Life! Run out of unique FF builds!
  • ansemthedarkansemthedark Posts: 606 Arc User
    edited April 2021
    Yeah, but it is still double damage while Skewer is only one time, if I look at one of the pure powers without anything on, on another char right now, Skewer is alone 432-863 crushing, and 288-576 to additional foes. While Skull Crusher is 167-452 crushing + 228-619 fire damage open all targets at once. So single Target wise it does around 200 more damage in total.

    It is still more of a single attack and AOE is a mild addition, just like certain combo attacks. Charge time is the same for both and Skullcrusher is only slightly higher in energy, like 2-4 points.

    They are simply two different styles I say, same AoE also. It is not as bad at least like certain Archery or Gadgeteer powers at least. I see them equal for what they both do. Skewer is a more direct and precise attack applying bleed even, while Skullcrusher is more of the brutal knock down.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 11,993 Arc User
    edited April 2021
    From quick testing, it appears that Put Them Down (the 15% special adv) does work. At base, Skullcrusher only does about 75% of Annihilate's dps at the same rank (for ref, Skewer does about 90% w/o factoring in the bleed chance and its special advs). Ofc, Skullcrusher does have the small AoE and the 15% adv on top, but Annihilate can get an extra 10% from the CFlames adv, and also has the approx. 20-10% knock-immune dmg bonus that Skullcrusher lacks. There's also generally more Crushing dmg debuffs than Fire dmg debuffs, which tends to work in Annihilate's favor when grouping.

    I'd be okay w/ making their base dps much closer, even if it means that Skullcrusher loses its small AoE component; HW has enough AoE attacks as is, imo. Annihilate should still edge out Skullcrusher then, since it's a higher-tier attack that self-roots and doesn't debuff, but it shouldn't be that large of a gap.
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • ansemthedarkansemthedark Posts: 606 Arc User
    flowcyto wrote: »
    From quick testing, it appears that Put Them Down (the 15% special adv) does work. At base, Skullcrusher only does about 75% of Annihilate's dps at the same rank (for ref, Skewer does about 90% w/o factoring in the bleed chance and its special advs). Ofc, Skullcrusher does have the small AoE and the 15% adv on top, but Annihilate can get an extra 10% from the CFlames adv, and also has the approx. 20-10% knock-immune dmg bonus that Skullcrusher lacks. There's also generally more Crushing dmg debuffs than Fire dmg debuffs, which tends to work in Annihilate's favor when grouping.

    I'd be okay w/ making their base dps much closer, even if it means that Skullcrusher loses its small AoE component; HW has enough AoE attacks as is, imo. Annihilate should still edge out Skullcrusher then, since it's a higher-tier attack that self-roots and doesn't debuff, but it shouldn't be that large of a gap.

    True to the amount of debuffs, fire has it hard anyway with only able to stack once on top. I agree with all of this, more single attacks for HW, in fact, why we have not gotten a new one for this instead of one for the single blade that has several options already.
  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,567 Arc User
    edited April 2021
    flowcyto wrote: »
    I'd be okay w/ making their base dps much closer, even if it means that Skullcrusher loses its small AoE component; HW has enough AoE attacks as is, imo. Annihilate should still edge out Skullcrusher then, since it's a higher-tier attack that self-roots and doesn't debuff, but it shouldn't be that large of a gap.
    Honestly I would like that, Skullcrusher goes wasted for me right now, which is a crime consider it has a really good animation

    Crossing fingers that SOMEDAY Devs will buff it and give another boost ADV to make a decent power focusing more on single target

    The fact that Brimstone got new ADVs and noticeable changes while Skullcrusher got ignored YET AGAIN, annoys me
    and on top of that, they made a new foxbat fun device which use its animation as base

    Even if I make a DPS focusing on Skullcrusher I would feel embarrassed bringing it on endgame​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point
    An Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable but farms way to much to archieve that
    Playing as EVERYTHING but Superheroesm! Playing since 1 February 2011
    Currently playing with 86+ Characters (7 ATs, 79 FFs) Loving all of them, ALTitis for Life! Run out of unique FF builds!
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 11,993 Arc User
    edited April 2021
    Yea, they don't even have to go down the focused single-target route; they could just make it a better, wider AoE attack. Whatever it takes to make it more useful as an option, really, cause I also hate to see a cool-looking power to waste atm.
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 4,707 Arc User
    It's be nice if the AoE were a cone instead of a cylinder.
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,567 Arc User
    edited April 2021
    Here is some min maxing testing on PTS! STR primary, Unstoppable, Warden+Vindicator, 3 different Debuffs, DCU, [Ironclad's Willpower 9]
    [4/24 18:21] [Combat (Self)] Your Skullcrusher deals 4702 (3646) Crushing Damage to Regenerating Test Dummy.
    
    [4/24 18:21] [Combat (Self)] Your Skullcrusher deals 4694 (3761) Fire Damage to Regenerating Test Dummy.
    

    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    It's be nice if the AoE were a cone instead of a cylinder.
    Big Agreed
    3 foot cylinder range is actually pathetic! I'm sticking with spamming Arc of Ruin thanks to its range​​
    Post edited by avianos on
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point
    An Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable but farms way to much to archieve that
    Playing as EVERYTHING but Superheroesm! Playing since 1 February 2011
    Currently playing with 86+ Characters (7 ATs, 79 FFs) Loving all of them, ALTitis for Life! Run out of unique FF builds!
  • leuchadegoutiereleuchadegoutiere Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited May 2021
    flowcyto wrote: »
    At base, Skullcrusher only does about 75% of Annihilate's dps at the same rank (for ref, Skewer does about 90% w/o factoring in the bleed chance and its special advs).

    How did you get your math ? My own calculations tell Skewer does, on single target and according to sole base damages, ~70% of Annihilate DPS
    @Leucha - Cascade, Praise, Gluh, Sanglots, Chernozem, Saadhaka, Ralsershei, La Lice, Cardinale and so on
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 11,993 Arc User
    edited May 2021
    Here are my base tooltip numbers on a lvl 40 Hybrid w/ no gear, no SSs, 5 in all stats, and all powers at Rank1:
    (edit: also I forgot to mention that this is at 5 stars)

    (assuming all attacks are charged)
    - Skullcrusher: 273*2 (crushing and fire dmg) = 546 dmg, 1.5sec total cast time (0.83sec charge + 0.67sec activation)
    - Skewer: 655 dmg, 1.5sec cast (0.83+0.67)
    - Annihilate: 970 dmg, 2.0sec cast (1.17+0.83)

    That makes it 364 base dps for Skullcrusher (546/1.5), ~436.667 dps for Skewer (655/1.5), and 485 dps for Annihilate (970/2).

    364/485 = 75.05%
    436.667/485 = 90.03%

    (again, ofc, that's also before other things like special advs, Skewer's bleed, or Annihilate's knock immune bonus are considered)
    Post edited by flowcyto on
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • leuchadegoutiereleuchadegoutiere Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited May 2021
    Huh. I get vastly different ratio on Cascade, my ranged tank. Reading the power description on the power window, I get 838 (Skewer) vs 1558 (Annihilate) base damage, wich do 558DPS vs 779DPS, which does ~72%

    What could explain such a difference in our data ? I'm in tank role, with Defiant, no form, EGO/CON/END, I don't see what could make Skewer and Annihilate values differ.

    Edit : I made the same calculation on a Support, I get the same ~72% ratio

    Edit 2 : I made the same calculation on a hybrid with AoRP, I get the same ~72% ratio. Maybe, huh, both power don't scale the same way from super stats ?
    @Leucha - Cascade, Praise, Gluh, Sanglots, Chernozem, Saadhaka, Ralsershei, La Lice, Cardinale and so on
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 11,993 Arc User
    edited May 2021
    Well, at least you keep getting the same ~72%, which supports that adding different general dmg bonuses will change the numbers but not the relative comparison. I'm not sure of our discrepancy, but I double-checked all my numbers again and they are correct for the listed tooltip values on my hotbar. I even added some SS's (STR/Dex/Con) and dmg bonuses and am getting the same relative ratios, w/ Skewer coming up at ~90%.

    For a quick example, w/ enough dmg bonuses to get R1 Annihilate to 1545 listed tooltip dmg (so pretty close to yours), R1 Skewer's charged dmg is listed at 1043, which is quite higher than your 838. Maybe you have Annihilate at a higher rank than Skewer? I'm not sure what else it could be otherwise, tbh.
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • leuchadegoutiereleuchadegoutiere Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited May 2021
    Ha, you check the hotbar. I'm checking powers' window description. Maybe the former doesn't show proper values.
    @Leucha - Cascade, Praise, Gluh, Sanglots, Chernozem, Saadhaka, Ralsershei, La Lice, Cardinale and so on
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 11,993 Arc User
    edited May 2021
    I mean.. even if the values differ between the Power menu and in the hotbar, they should still be the same relative ratio if compared in the same venue (and I'm not comparing a hotbar value for one power to a description value for another power). Even then- triple checking now, and the values for me aren't different between the hotbar and the Power's menu description anyways:

    F7ioHBI.jpg
    gT3qCD1.jpg

    .. So I'm still not really sure what else it could be.
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 712 Community Moderator
    After fidgeting with Skewer a bit, it seems that if you don't own the power, the power window description displays the lower number that Leucha is referencing. As soon as you add the power to a build, the displayed number (both in the power window and the tooltip) changes to the higher number that Flow is referencing. For other powers, the number stays the same regardless of whether you own the power.

    A few test stabs seem to indicate that the higher number is the real damage.

    Weird bug.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 11,993 Arc User
    edited May 2021
    Yeah, after a quick check, it does seem like Skewer's power description is behaving that way when training it. Def weird, but it can explain the discrepancy. Thanks for noticing that, Carrion 8)
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • leuchadegoutiereleuchadegoutiere Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited May 2021
    Skewer is more interesting than I thought, then.
    @Leucha - Cascade, Praise, Gluh, Sanglots, Chernozem, Saadhaka, Ralsershei, La Lice, Cardinale and so on
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 853 Arc User
    Yeah, I made a skewer tank, and she's not too bad actually.

    Skullcrusher could use some help tho. It's a power without a purpose at this point (like many in this game). The damage is subpar as a main attack, and the AoE is very small.

    HW already has some nice AoE option, and a couple of decent dps options. Not too sure where we can carve out a niche for this power.

    Crushing skulls is pretty lethal. And the savagery of the animation looks like a finishing blow. What about an execute advantage... more damage when an opponent is below half health maybe?

    Could also see making it a high-damage power that stuns on full charge, or stuns on tap to a disoriented target. might be nice for sentinel mastery synergy.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,447 Arc User
    Make it consume stacks of Enrage to deal extra damage. Boom, massive finisher.
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