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How much does this new 'Series' break the Lore?
kanzu1
Posts: 22 Arc User
Hello there. I'll be brief and to the point.
I've done the leveling event twice on two characters recently, and the game's lore stuck out a lot better and had quite a bit of charm to it. Then came the series quests. I also learned that the current 'writer' for the game, doesn't know the game's lore and he wasn't even aware of Resistance existing. And now with the news of this questline wrapping up, I have to ask. How much didn't hit the mark and broke lore? Thanks in advance!
I've done the leveling event twice on two characters recently, and the game's lore stuck out a lot better and had quite a bit of charm to it. Then came the series quests. I also learned that the current 'writer' for the game, doesn't know the game's lore and he wasn't even aware of Resistance existing. And now with the news of this questline wrapping up, I have to ask. How much didn't hit the mark and broke lore? Thanks in advance!
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kanzu1, if you'd like a thorough answer, it would be very helpful to me if you, or any other party, could summarize the key events of the series. If you don't want to post spoilers on the open forum, you can put the details in Spoiler tags, or send me a PM. Then I'll be glad to address your question. And again, anyone else who wants to weigh in is more than welcome.
Mind you, once Graknash's full plan has been revealed, it may make sense. However, CO news has essentially stated that he's "awakened" a lore-based character on the Moon who hasn't appeared in the MMO yet. I can't think of any significant Champions character that could apply to with a connection to ol' Luna, but if the Moon is not integral to the history of the character the series writer chose to adapt, there are a number of possibilities.
In the name of full disclosure, I will admit that one significant factor in my not playing is that I'm tired of magic-based stories in CO. There's such a vast amount of stuff in the lore that has nothing to do with magic, as there is in comics in general; but that rarely manifests here any more. So I can't say I had much interest in this Serene Abyss.
I see, well thanks for your replies! I would offer up some key points, but my experience so far has been just getting to the Moon and that's it. And that was a while ago. I've not done the recent 'stories', but finding out that the writer doesn't even know the lore did hit me hard with the "I'm not going to bother."-baseball bat. Hence why I wanted to see how much it breaks lore and how much it doesn't, to see if it would be worth the effort.
That was a very sad realization for me, too. When it started up, I was very excited. Something involving the Cobra Lords! Okay, not the most exciting faction, but they're a city-streets kind of gang that will give my street-level heroes something heroic to fight against. Nope... almost instantly it turns into magic hour. Rewards are all magic auras and transformations. End up fighting a magic lizard on the moon.
There's already so much magic stuff. Trying to play content that feels appropriate to a Batman/Daredevil/Spidey type hero (a majority of my roster, personally) is... pretty much impossible here.
Guess why i prefer Adventure Packs like Whiteout and Resistance, more tech and Alien, even if Resistance has Shadow Destroyer and his magic but main enemys are till then are super powered or machines. On the Moon topic, it is already a bit a mess, isn't Base Serenity for Nemcon on the moon already also? Also the Forum Malnvanum?
I not played the series fully yet but i agree we could need more focus on non magic stuff, Cobra Lords are already odd due how soon the leaders get killed of in Westside also. They not really have a replacement as leader, not even for Alerts except Hi Pan and Kevin Poe of course, but the rest feels just there. I also would like to see more Alien based stories, would like to see more of the Qularr with maybe Qularr Space Helmets like in the comics to unlock, we lack a lot of head and eyewear for such heads anyway.
Aren't most of the Nemesis missions non-magic based? At least that's what I recall. It always strikes me as hilarious when I have a magical/mythical Nemesis whose master plan is to build a Giant Laser!
Earth's Moon is actually a pretty "happening" place in the Champions Universe. Yes, UNTIL's Moonbase Serenity is humanity's only permanently manned facility on the Moon. The Forum Malvanum has a lot more going on than has been shown in CO so far. Moreover (minor spoilers following)
There's no mention of any entity on the Moon whom Graknash might try to "awaken." But there are a few in the lore with some connection to the Lemurians for whom the actual location of a ritual would be incidental, and who also would fit thematically with what Cryptic has done with CO so far, so if the devs are planning to retcon one of them to Luna it wouldn't be a huge issue.
The moon feels stuffed from this alone. Then again, there could be space to make it believable that nothing has yet noticed eachother from those mentions.
But the Forum Malvanum is hidden by the most advanced cloaking technology in the galaxy. The supervillain base is dug into sub-surface caverns. Mechanon's facility is tethered one hundred meters above the Moon's surface, too low for conventional radar to pick up.
However, Selenus, the city of the Selenites, was discovered by humans decades ago. Mechanon has become aware of the Forum Malvanum, and has sent one of its robots disguised as an "alien" gladiator to spy on it.
YES we need more Dr. Destroyer!
It would also be appropriate to use some of his minions as the focus of an adventure, if the devs want to save DD for later. The Doctor has many, including super-powered operatives, quite a few more than Gigaton and Rakshasa who have already appeared in CO.
Both him and Dark Seraph of the Crowns of Krim desperately need proper story arcs. There was no need to start a completely new story.
- The Overlord
Another interesting thing about the Crowns, is that they're actually being hunted by Takofanes. If the Archlich can capture them he can use his Dragon Crown to bind the other Crown wearers to his command, kind of a Sauron/Ringwraith deal. So that's even more existing assets that could be used in a new way.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
As for VIPER, the breadth of its schemes for power is literally global. VIPER: Coils Of The Serpent is packed with major projects and plots the group is engaged in, and again, most of them don't involve magic.
Keep in mind that the moon is tiny compared to the Earth. New York to LA is almost one side of the moon to the other. (~2800 miles, vs. ~3300 for opposite points on the moon). So most of those things are not going to be New York to LA apart from each other. The total surface area of the moon is significantly smaller than Asia (~20% smaller) - if asia was formed into the surface of a ball.
That said, there are subterranean 'caverns' on the moon - old lava tubes. (As there is no flowing water on the moon, other forms of caverns are impossible).
Mechanon's base being hidden 100m above the surface of the moon is a little silly, however. 'Conventional radar' is hardly the thing to worry about, however, as conventional radar is based on earth-based radar detecting things on earth. The earth detecting things on the moon wouldn't involve the same technology in any sense, and the limitations of the technology would be very different. Visual detection is an issue with a very good telescope - Hubble can resolve an object of the moon just under 100m across. Keck telescope in Hawaii can get even smaller. And at 100m above the moon's surface, it would *cast a shadow*, potentially a decent sized shadow. And that's just visual inspection with a good telescope, not the countless other ways the moon could be observed.
Of course, if it's on the dark side of the moon, visual detection isn't an issue, because *the moon is tidally locked to the earth*. But if that were the case, mechanon doesn't need to worry about detection with 'conventional' radar, or any kind of radar, either. You can only detect what you can actually see! (You'd have to specifically send something to image or otherwise examine the dark side of the moon at that point - similarly, the Forum Malvanum is, i believe, on the dark side of the moon, and their cloaking technology is generally irrelevant to whether Earth has any idea they're there). That they bothered to specify it was protected from specific detection suggests Mechanon's base is not on the dark side of the moon (or they could have just said that). And floating above the moon actually makes him easier to detect, because of the increased shadow his base would cast. (My guess is the champions writers didn't think very hard about this). (If it is on the dark side of the moon, Mechanon would have a problem detecting things happening on Earth, too.)
Book Of The Machine specifies that Mechanon uses "Installation Alpha-8" to scan for extraterrestrial activity in the wider solar system; so it would be reasonable for it to be on the dark side of the Moon, although that isn't specifically stated. Mech doesn't need to scan Earth from the Moon -- it has multiple concealed bases on the planet and in high Earth orbit. It does, however, have to be concerned about detection from Moonbase Serenity, UNTIL's permanent military/research base, which probably does conduct Lunar surveys. So a low radar profile still makes sense. (Alpha-8 has additional stealth systems, though.)
Champions Beyond p. 66 notes that much of the Forum Malvanum appears to be open to space (although actually secured by force fields) so that its guests can have "an unobstructed view of the Earth." Hence it isn't on the Moon's dark side. With Malvan cloaking tech that's irrelevant. However, Tateklys the "praetor" of the Arena wasn't as thorough with cloaking the Forum from surface detection, expecting that to be less likely. Hence there are occasional gaps in the cloak at lower levels, one of which allowed Mechanon to detect it when conducting routine scans.
All that being said, I think it's fair to assume the PnP authors didn't think through all the implications of what they wrote. It's not the first time I personally have seen them make questionable assertions, or appear to have overlooked key points. They're game authors, not polymaths.
Well, two reasons mechanon's base is almost certainly not on the dark side of the moon: (1) he wouldn't be able to detect FM with scans unless it was within line of sight, and since FM is apparently smack dab in the middle of the near side of the moon... (otherwise earth wouldn't be directly overhead), (2) He wouldn't be able to communicate with bases on earth unless there was direct line of "sight" to them. (This is why we need satellites to bounce signals around earth - once something disappears around the curvature of the earth, you can't transmit to it unless you have something you can bounce it off of (or a direct wire connection, of course). You can occasionally bounce a radio signal off the ionosphere, but the moon doesn't have an ionosphere to do that with). Basically anywhere mechanon could remain in communication with, and thus control of, his earth bases would be somewhere vulnerable to earth-based detection.
I suppose you could additionally assume Mechanon has a satellite around the moon that's in a fixed position relative to the moon and bounces signals to a dark side base, but then you just have to worry about the satellite getting detected instead of the base, and as its unstated, you have to assume the existence of an entire satellite. (I'm also not sure the physics work out for that at all). (An alternate version would involve a small ground antenna installation with a wire connection to his base located near the 'edge' of the moon, but that doesn't work so hot since his base is floating 100m above the moon. I'm honestly not sure why the authors thought hovering 100m above the moon increased its security - being on the surface would be just as resistant to radar).
Scanning the rest of the solar system can work from the near side as well as the dark side. The moon does revolve around the earth, and so the near side will get just as much exposure, the earth will just block a portion, but what is blocked will change over time.
When faced with something like this in an official source which you don't agree with or can't accept for your own use, you can either change it, attempt to rationalize it, or just go with it and not stress over the details. Any of those may work for a given person.