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What ever happened to the classic heroes?

catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
edited November 2020 in Off Topic
Heroes where always the ones who wore the bright and shiny outfits, stood for noble causes of hope and inspired those around them, how did everything become so dark and brooding, with a pure gothic overtone? They are even trying to turn the monsters and villains into the heroes now, everything is backwards.

Post edited by kaiserin#0958 on

Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
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Comments

  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    Every one of your bold words had an example...ranging from the 70s to Twilight vampires and current heroes that meet your spec..

    Your question/example is all over the place and you sort of answered yourself.
  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    Every one of your bold words had an example...ranging from the 70s to Twilight vampires and current heroes that meet your spec..

    Your question/example is all over the place and you sort of answered yourself.

    I was looking for the opinions and thoughts of others, also into comic/cartoon hero adventures.

    I Was also trying to fit a lot of questions and a few decades of observed decline into a paragraph so as to not make it that long too read. But also open to comment on. If you have noticed, it's harder to find people who even talk about comics anymore, especially the classics when they where at their best.

    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 4,269 Arc User
    You basically summarized the history of comic books from the 1960s to 1990s. My characters run that entire gamut; they range from those with the Spiderman/Superman outlook to the Punisher.
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    I mean we have Rey from Star Wars, we have Spider-Man and we have Wonder Woman and we have Captain America. We have New Voltron. We have always had Power Ranger. We have PJ Mask...

    I mean there is a range of what a classic hero is but there are tons that fit into that category. Batman has never been a bright and shiny hero.
  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    You basically summarized the history of comic books from the 1960s to 1990s. My characters run that entire gamut; they range from those with the Spiderman/Superman outlook to the Punisher.

    Im really into Pulp Pilot and Vintage SciFi right now, CO started to be in favor of that then withdrew from it with a passion. I grew up with Superman and Green Lantern though, the 80s introduced me to STar Wars and Flash Gordon, Im still hooked. I just cant wrap my mind around why anyone would want to be or root for the villain, or turn what was once the shining hero in to a depressing and uninspiring anti-hero.

    de9lanv-be4fd61c-e972-4855-912b-3e2f385a4692.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOiIsImlzcyI6InVybjphcHA6Iiwib2JqIjpbW3sicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvMWIzZTI4NmYtYTJkZS00MzNiLTlkOGItY2UyMWJjZjVhMzVhXC9kZTlsYW52LWJlNGZkNjFjLWU5NzItNDg1NS05MTJiLTNlMmYzODVhNDY5Mi5qcGcifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6ZmlsZS5kb3dubG9hZCJdfQ.ImRf-gbliJ_s3fhIiMTcnoSNkSNmdWUCLGPLVHcaqiY

    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • retehi#8400 retehi Posts: 20 Arc User
    "Why aren't your tastes the same as mine?"
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,085 Arc User
    I mean we have Rey from Star Wars, we have Spider-Man and we have Wonder Woman and we have Captain America. We have New Voltron. We have always had Power Ranger. We have PJ Mask...

    I mean there is a range of what a classic hero is but there are tons that fit into that category. Batman has never been a bright and shiny hero.

    It's interesting to me that your selection features a mix of comic-book heroes and those from other media. In fact, since Spider-Man, Wonder Woman, and Captain America are now stars of their own movie franchises, you could say that they're all examples from outside of comic-books.

    IMO the transition in the nature of comics heroes, particularly in the 1990s, reflected the overall societal trend in popular media during that era: a strain of nihilism that sought to tear down icons of idealism and selflessness, to show them as all being flawed, through such vehicles as Watchmen, the Punisher, Wolverine, the Authority, and every character created then with "death," "dark," or "blood" in its name. Society goes through such shifts periodically -- the horror craze of the late 19th Century that gave us Dracula, Jekyll and Hyde, the Invisible Man among others, is another example. Starting in the early part of this millennium, some comics creators sought to marry the insights gained from that deconstruction of the superhero genre with a return to idealistic heroes. I could point to Kurt Busiek's run as writer for The Avengers as illustrative of that effort.

    Nonetheless, many if not the majority of comics published today continue to try to be "dark" and "edgy," to challenge traditional notions of heroism. However, those comics have seen a steady decline in sales, now only a small fraction of what comics were at their height. OTOH the recent wave of wildly successful movies inspired those comics have again featured principled, self-sacrificing heroes who are motivated by the desire to protect the innocent and inspire others by example. IMO those examples are evidence that the broader nihilist wave has mostly run its course, and people are once again hungry for "bright and shiny."
  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    I suppose you guys answered my questions, the older generation could relate to and get behind the original heroes and what they stood for because that's how we where brought up and what we aspired to be, but those values and principles are no longer being taught, in fact being vilified to scorn... That scene in Grande Torino when those kids mocked that old woman who dropped her groceries instead of helping her comes to mind and makes more sense now.



    But I at least know there are still some in game who like the classic hero themes and are friendly players, I've seen them and give those of the same like a thumbs up.

    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,085 Arc User
    Oh, were you talking about Champions Online specifically? If that's the case I can see where you got those impressions. Many of the gamers here had no real experience with the superhero genre, having come from fantasy or action games where characters such as you describe, monsters and murderers, are allowed, and even encouraged and rewarded. They often end up trying to play here what they're familiar with there.

    However, in the broader context I can't wholly agree with you. Every generation looks at the one following after them as having lost something the older generation had, of not understanding the things they valued; even when they displayed comparable attitudes toward their elders when they were that age. I'm not saying there aren't differences, but IME they aren't that fundamental, and certainly aren't reversible.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 4,269 Arc User
    Why would anyone want to play a rampaging monster like the Hulk, or a vengeful demon like Ghost Rider? Comic books have a long history of "dark" heroes.
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • ansemthedarkansemthedark Posts: 402 Arc User
    I would also say it simply is with things changing over time, look at Marvel and DC, both heroes often change or even get rebooted. I mean there are people thare shiny and look good but are the true evil in the end also, i would say some people simply decide what they go for, a monster can be a hero, while people pretending to be heroes doe things far worse then any monster can at times.

    We have this imagie of good vs evil forgetting gray areas in media sadly, and people express this here more, of course we have the dark and edgy people also but so is the real world, people act different and are there own individuals simply, while others grown up with images of there idols and heroes or people they like to follow, generations changed and the old heroes are simply not what they used to anymore, even Superman or so can go violent or show a different face to him, especially with multiverse incarnations.

    It is similar to gender roles in a way things simply changed over the years, races, people, gender, all mixed more and less "stereotypes" you could say. People like different things simply, some like Anime, other like Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Furries, Robots, etc. And people just go wild with imagination and create things often they simply might not see so often, dark and edgy is overused but i guess some liek to go against the norm simply, trying to go against what the game tells them to be. People have simply different reasons to create or make something that fits there image or just for simple fun.
  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    I would also say it simply is with things changing over time, look at Marvel and DC, both heroes often change or even get rebooted. I mean there are people thare shiny and look good but are the true evil in the end also, i would say some people simply decide what they go for, a monster can be a hero, while people pretending to be heroes doe things far worse then any monster can at times.

    I think you're missing the point I was making. But now that I have my answer, one bulgarex helped with, while I think its also a mix of bad influence in some cases, the fact that few in the game are actual comic fans, but rather seek a chance to emulate other games where being a monster or ghoul or avatart is what is sold, is their goal.
    We have this imagie of good vs evil forgetting gray areas in media sadly, and people express this here more, of course we have the dark and edgy people also but so is the real world, people act different and are there own individuals simply, while others grown up with images of there idols and heroes or people they like to follow, generations changed and the old heroes are simply not what they used to anymore, even Superman or so can go violent or show a different face to him, especially with multiverse incarnations.

    Be careful with gray areas as there are none, you cant kinda kill someone or kinda steal or kinda lie or kinda cheat someone...you ether feed that wolf doing the evil or you feed the wolf thats fighting against it....that determines who and what you are when the world sees what you do. Gray areas are just darkness pretending to be light, thats what darkness uses to make those trying to escape think they have escaped, while at the same time a trap those who want to play with darkness to get caught in. Hulk was a rage filled monster they kept trying to stop, even the one who created it. Banner kept telling them even in the movies that he didnt want to let it out, because it wasnt what you would call a hero, just a monster used to destroy that he had no control over...that wasnt him nor what he wanted. Ghost rider I never would read, too ghoulish and evil. Again with them trying to send mixed signals in comics with that, or Blade as well...trying to make what is evil good while trying to make what was good evil to normalize something not meant for good folk. Inventing special conditions to normalize the situation of a walking demon filled corpse that feeds on the blood of the living. But another interesting thing you bring up is the villain that dresses well to pretend to be good, like Lex Luther they often fool those around them for money, power or to attack the heroes good standing so they could remove the only thing that could stop them once they get into power. That brings back the lesson of "if the light of your eye (soul) is darkness, how great is that darkness?" The important thing is that in any heroic tail, the good guys should always win and what is evil like Palpatine should always come to the surface, or those with limited discretion may be seduced easily to the darkside. You have to admit, Anakin looked like a real soda jerk allowing his emotions control him like that, and many suffered for it including those he loved! Whether it be something as petty as "plastics & trolls" or as over the top as "major warlords & political figures" they should never be glamourized as the thing to be.


    The 3rd paragraph feels like bait, and that can of worms can get people more stirred up and violent than a soccer game!

    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,085 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    Why would anyone want to play a rampaging monster like the Hulk, or a vengeful demon like Ghost Rider? Comic books have a long history of "dark" heroes.

    Absolutely, and I think there's an answer to that that's at the core of the appeal of the superhero genre: wish fulfillment. Through comic-book characters we can vicariously experience what we wish to do but could only dream of doing. Classic Hulk is rage incarnate, the anger and frustration we all feel at being hurt, abused, betrayed. Most of us don't dare let that out, but Hulk does, and his rage is literally impossible for anyone to deny or suppress. Classic Ghost Rider is the Spirit of Vengeance, bringing retribution to those who think they can abuse others with impunity. Through him we feel the satisfaction of seeing justice done.

    But even those characters aren't savages who cause pain for their own pleasure. Ghost Rider targets only those who were guilty of hurting the innocent, and doesn't just kill them but makes them feel the pain they inflicted, the ultimate mosaic justice. Hulk was never deliberately cruel, simply a child who lashes out at his tormentors because he can't understand. He's capable of friendship, compassion, loyalty, even heroism. Despite their differences from "four-color" superheroes, these characters aren't devoid of the moral dimension that has always motivated them.
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,309 Arc User
    "Evil Will Always Triumph Because Good is Dumb."
    -Dark Helmet
    CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
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  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    "Evil Will Always Triumph Because Good is Dumb."
    -Dark Helmet

    lol, you should have linked that clip.

    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • ansemthedarkansemthedark Posts: 402 Arc User
    catstarsto wrote: »
    The 3rd paragraph feels like bait, and that can of worms can get people more stirred up and violent than a soccer game!

    I mean it tho with this and if people in the year 2020, close to 2021, still get rilled up by such then this shows even more humanity failed so often, i simply say people think different and see things different may be be classical stuff, traditions or simply go against the norm also to stick out the crowd. Some swim withthe flow, some against it, this is in every part of the world in a way, may it be groups, ideologies, or simple ideas.
  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    catstarsto wrote: »
    The 3rd paragraph feels like bait, and that can of worms can get people more stirred up and violent than a soccer game!

    I mean it tho with this and if people in the year 2020, close to 2021, still get rilled up by such then this shows even more humanity failed so often, i simply say people think different and see things different may be be classical stuff, traditions or simply go against the norm also to stick out the crowd. Some swim withthe flow, some against it, this is in every part of the world in a way, may it be groups, ideologies, or simple ideas.

    Im not sure I'd have the ear of the majority here speaking of morals & ideology outside of universe of comics, movies and this game as I intended when I started the thread, so as to establish a common ground for those who wanted to discuss it. But, my thread was still moved to a none comic/game related section nonetheless. Fortunately we did get a conversation about the game and comic book heroes going and I was able to hear the opinions and thoughts of other players here, so it was still a small success I think.

    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    It’s off topic because it’s an off-topic and baiting conversation.
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,085 Arc User
    It’s off topic because it’s an off-topic and baiting conversation.

    I suppose that's a reasonable stand to take, but TBH this game has many times made me feel the way catstarsto expressed it in their OP. So much of the wonder and hope and inspiration that made superheroes my favorite genre of fiction, never seems to reach many CO players, and I can't help feeling they're missing out. To be sure, anyone has the right to choose to play something else if that's truly what they prefer. It just seems to me that much of that absence is simple ignorance of the possibilities and potential of the genre and this setting, as I described in a post above. Offering more of that potential is one big reason why I make Champions lore posts. :)
  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    bulgarex wrote: »
    It’s off topic because it’s an off-topic and baiting conversation.

    I suppose that's a reasonable stand to take, but TBH this game has many times made me feel the way catstarsto expressed it in their OP. So much of the wonder and hope and inspiration that made superheroes my favorite genre of fiction, never seems to reach many CO players, and I can't help feeling they're missing out. To be sure, anyone has the right to choose to play something else if that's truly what they prefer. It just seems to me that much of that absence is simple ignorance of the possibilities and potential of the genre and this setting, as I described in a post above. Offering more of that potential is one big reason why I make Champions lore posts. :)

    ealford: I already explained my intent was to get a conversation going about "comic heroes" and "this game" while asking why things have changed so much...has it become so unreasonable in this generation to ask peoples opinions, or questions about why things are, with out being complained about or snitched on? I almost feel like quoting Captain Picard but I'll spare the drama.

    bulgarex: I thank you for your thoughts in this thread, you are easy to talk too. Even bringing to my attention there is a lore section to look for in the forums.

    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • crazyflip#4138 crazyflip Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    > @"retehi#8400" said:
    > "Why aren't your tastes the same as mine?"


    ☝️ The OP in a nutshell. Such sanctimonious twaddle.
    Post edited by crazyflip#4138 on
    ...pretentious humble brag about how I am actually better than everyone and a hero to all. If you don't agree you don't get it *cries*
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,309 Arc User
    "Heroes aren't born, heroes are made."
    -Collateral damage
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  • crazyflip#4138 crazyflip Posts: 103 Arc User
    Dude, your thread was moved to off topic because it's not about CO. Off topic is not a "non-game and comic book" section, it's a non-CO section and is probably better suited to this attempt to impose your morality on these here forums. Trying to claim you were snitched on is just silly, as is your telling a contributor to this thread that there are no shades of grey when that is their belief. I really don't see you as trying to have an open conversation, but rather as trying to assert your beliefs.

    IIRC your OP had something about growing up on Superman and Green lantern comics in the 80s (as did I), but your attempt to brand this as a generational thing doesn't hold water. You have the Punisher linked in your OP who started his 'war on crime' crusade back in the early 70s and you also linked Batman who has been murdering criminals since his very first issue in 1939, he even used a gun back then. His 'no-killing' mantra evolved over time and he is more "humane" now compared to then. Anti-heroes have been a staple of fiction since time immemorial... Gilgamesh and Herakles were often brutal, violent assholes.

    You can see from my avatar that I am a fan of classic heroes. I dig the JSA, JLA and the Avengers, but I also love Moon Knight, the Punisher, Spawn, Judge Dredd, V from V for Vendetta, John Constantine, Marv, Wolverine and Rorschach, amongst others. Does that mean I agree with their methods, ideologies and goals? No. I also don't quite believe in the methods of self-appointed whitebread heroes who have decided to instill their ideologies upon comic book worlds through use of their might, wealth or status . However, I am fascinated by the concepts and ideas of all these protagonists and love to see these characters portrayed in beautiful art in comic books and upon the screen with their wonderful powers, gadgets, abilities and costumes and backstories. I would hate to see only one type though and love a mix of protagonists to read about and watch. It makes for a richer tableau.

    Vive la difference.

    You try to claim that heroes with "noble causes of hope" who inspire those around them" are gone when, in fact, they have always been around and are still very much a thing. The moral decline into a cesspit you allude to in the superhero industry does not exist. The most popular movies of recent times have been the Avengers franchise whose protagonists are exactly the types that you claim have vanished from the genre. You can like what you like but your whole assertion that "everything is backwards" is merely your opinion. Morality is also very subjective and trying to hammer folks over the head with your version of it is ill-advised.
    ...pretentious humble brag about how I am actually better than everyone and a hero to all. If you don't agree you don't get it *cries*
  • ansemthedarkansemthedark Posts: 402 Arc User
    Seriously on this, you asked for opinions and peopled gived some, and you insult people which opinions you not liked, people like differnt things and the industry evolves around it simply, there is nothing classic anymore and it simply changed an exists in other form simply and the industry knows this, why they change this up so often, even if drastically. I simply taken the game as example due well it is this games forum so relatable then just taking a random example. If you not like different opinions, not make a thread then. Because according to you, other opinions are just complains and snitched on.
    Dude, your thread was moved to off topic because it's not about CO. Off topic is not a "non-game and comic book" section, it's a non-CO section and is probably better suited to this attempt to impose your morality on these here forums. Trying to claim you were snitched on is just silly, as is your telling a contributor to this thread that there are no shades of grey when that is their belief. I really don't see you as trying to have an open conversation, but rather as trying to assert your beliefs.

    IIRC your OP had something about growing up on Superman and Green lantern comics in the 80s (as did I), but your attempt to brand this as a generational thing doesn't hold water. You have the Punisher linked in your OP who started his 'war on crime' crusade back in the early 70s and you also linked Batman who has been murdering criminals since his very first issue in 1939, he even used a gun back then. His 'no-killing' mantra evolved over time and he is more "humane" now compared to then. Anti-heroes have been a staple of fiction since time immemorial... Gilgamesh and Herakles were often brutal, violent assholes.

    You can see from my avatar that I am a fan of classic heroes. I dig the JSA, JLA and the Avengers, but I also love Moon Knight, the Punisher, Spawn, Judge Dredd, V from V for Vendetta, John Constantine, Marv, Wolverine and Rorschach, amongst others. Does that mean I agree with their methods, ideologies and goals? No. I also don't quite believe in the methods of self-appointed whitebread heroes who have decided to instill their ideologies upon comic book worlds through use of their might, wealth or status . However, I am fascinated by the concepts and ideas of all these protagonists and love to see these characters portrayed in beautiful art in comic books and upon the screen with their wonderful powers, gadgets, abilities and costumes and backstories. I would hate to see only one type though and love a mix of protagonists to read about and watch. It makes for a richer tableau.

    Vive la difference.

    You try to claim that heroes with "noble causes of hope" who inspire those around them" are gone when, in fact, they have always been around and are still very much a thing. The moral decline into a cesspit you allude to in the superhero industry does not exist. The most popular movies of recent times have been the Avengers franchise whose protagonists are exactly the types that you claim have vanished from the genre. You can like what you like but your whole assertion that "everything is backwards" is merely your opinion. Morality is also very subjective and trying to hammer folks over the head with your version of it is ill-advised.

    Very well said here crazyflip.
  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    Seriously on this, you asked for opinions and peopled gived some, and you insult people which opinions you not liked, people like differnt things and the industry evolves around it simply, there is nothing classic anymore and it simply changed an exists in other form simply and the industry knows this, why they change this up so often, even if drastically. I simply taken the game as example due well it is this games forum so relatable then just taking a random example. If you not like different opinions, not make a thread then. Because according to you, other opinions are just complains and snitched on.

    Very well said here crazyflip.

    Where my own thoughts and opinions not allowed?

    When my thread vanished, I thought it was removed. Then once I found it again, without a reason given for it by anyone, I assumed it was to protect the anonymity of the one who complained. Given it was already expressed to me the forums aren't tended to, to get the attention of someone they would have to literally find them on a different social media.

    But as I said, my questions have been answered, and I got to discuss comics and the game in general, "there is still life out there" lol, so I'm pleased with that.

    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,600 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    > @crazyflip#4138 said:
    > Dude, your thread was moved to off topic because it's not about CO. Off topic is not a "non-game and comic book" section, it's a non-CO section and is probably better suited to this attempt to impose your morality on these here forums. Trying to claim you were snitched on is just silly, as is your telling a contributor to this thread that there are no shades of grey when that is their belief. I really don't see you as trying to have an open conversation, but rather as trying to assert your beliefs.
    >
    > IIRC your OP had something about growing up on Superman and Green lantern comics in the 80s (as did I), but your attempt to brand this as a generational thing doesn't hold water. You have the Punisher linked in your OP who started his 'war on crime' crusade back in the early 70s and you also linked Batman who has been murdering criminals since his very first issue in 1939, he even used a gun back then. His 'no-killing' mantra evolved over time and he is more "humane" now compared to then. Anti-heroes have been a staple of fiction since time immemorial... Gilgamesh and Herakles were often brutal, violent assholes.
    >
    > You can see from my avatar that I am a fan of classic heroes. I dig the JSA, JLA and the Avengers, but I also love Moon Knight, the Punisher, Spawn, Judge Dredd, V from V for Vendetta, John Constantine, Marv, Wolverine and Rorschach, amongst others. Does that mean I agree with their methods, ideologies and goals? No. I also don't quite believe in the methods of self-appointed whitebread heroes who have decided to instill their ideologies upon comic book worlds through use of their might, wealth or status . However, I am fascinated by the concepts and ideas of all these protagonists and love to see these characters portrayed in beautiful art in comic books and upon the screen with their wonderful powers, gadgets, abilities and costumes and backstories. I would hate to see only one type though and love a mix of protagonists to read about and watch. It makes for a richer tableau.
    >
    > Vive la difference.
    >
    > You try to claim that heroes with "noble causes of hope" who inspire those around them" are gone when, in fact, they have always been around and are still very much a thing. The moral decline into a cesspit you allude to in the superhero industry does not exist. The most popular movies of recent times have been the Avengers franchise whose protagonists are exactly the types that you claim have vanished from the genre. You can like what you like but your whole assertion that "everything is backwards" is merely your opinion. Morality is also very subjective and trying to hammer folks over the head with your version of it is ill-advised.





    A kindred spirit! Nicely put there. There's room for all types of "heroes".
    zrdRBy8.png
    Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
  • ansemthedarkansemthedark Posts: 402 Arc User
    catstarsto wrote: »
    Where my own thoughts and opinions not allowed?

    They are allwoed but you have to also life with answers you might not like simply, you are in an open forum where everyone can read it and give an answer, you act like someone insulted you and like we are against forum rules, which we are not. We gived opinion and answers and those oyu not liked you treat as complains and insults or even that people snitched it, your own words.
  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    catstarsto wrote: »
    Where my own thoughts and opinions not allowed?

    They are allwoed but you have to also life with answers you might not like simply, you are in an open forum where everyone can read it and give an answer, you act like someone insulted you and like we are against forum rules, which we are not. We gived opinion and answers and those oyu not liked you treat as complains and insults or even that people snitched it, your own words.

    I have accepted answers I didn't like, even thanked the person who provided them. I've been insulted a number of times on the forums, I don't generally call people on it because they feel the way they feel. I'd rather them be honest about it then go behind my back, that is why I felt the need to share why I felt the moderation was inspired by a complaint.




    The past week as I was walking through RenCen, I noticed most if not all of peoples toons where ether demons, monsters with a gruesome backstory, or avatarts....mix that with I just watched both parts of the final Avengers movie, and I had to ask the question..."what happened??"


    I guess the reason I point to this comic hero most is the fact he stands for traditional morals and principles I grew up with, I can relate to this hero. He is also steadfast in them, even making a promise he would never change to suit what ever may come...and to me that is awesome! Its why he never gave in to the (Marvels) UN version of the Mutant Control Agency Ironman signed, like from Night of the Sentinels, and fought for liberty in opposition to it...but special conditions did come up making him the bad guy for not conforming, while it was a spectacular battle, I hated how they ended up divided over it. Superman they changed too much, it's just not the same. It's like they don't even know how to write a classic goodguy anymore since we live in the "dont impose that on me!" era lol. Green lantern I didnt like what they did for him in the movie, but I have to admit, making an Ex-Marine a green lantern for JL cartoon was cool...better then the metal mask one.


    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • ansemthedarkansemthedark Posts: 402 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    Yet this is how people role, believe me i also like to see more actual heroes around, but eather it is also dark and edgy or sexualized at worse, do this in privat at least i say, i mean i am a guy and also enjoy such at times but not all the time simply, thing is the calssic heroes are still existing, just rarer, consider also how the game here evolved, Nightmare Invasion, Bloodmoon, all dark events in general, even Christmas has a destroid invasion or the Anniversary.

    It is not jsut the people but the woeld the game provided with dark thematics mostly, the heroes that exist ingame barely seem to do anything or shine out to inspire while the villains are all over the place and that influences people really i say.

    Take other games even as example like WoW or any other MMO, despitea dark character, class, or background, you still will end up saving the day also, it is simple the risk a big customization can bring, i mean look even at things like Dark Souls with peopel modding blue defromed ogers as characters or joke for the sake of it or min maximazing with equipment, making you look ridiclious as the one hero who safes all and breaks the cycle.

    I would like to see more "generic" shining heroes again but people simply migth be sick of it, and i kinda hope they will be sick of dark and eddy also, i mean look also at Marvel vs DC movies as example also, people not liked often the dark edgy, Marvel was serious too but had its funny moments to the right tim,e it simply had good mix of things, something games and movies simply lack, a good mix, not just good vs evil, this is waht i also ment with grey areas here simply, you need a balance of most things.
  • dialamxdialamx Posts: 753 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    So this is a long thread, and I'm not going to go through and read every single response. But I am going to drop a response to the OP.

    At one time it was easy to distinguish heroes and villains. Heroes wore white (or some other bright flashy color) and villains wore black (or some other dark color). Heroes fought for the ideals of the society that saw them as heroes, and the villains tried to stop, or change those ideals. As time went on, things changed, peoples minds started opening up, looking past the propaganda to see what the other sides were truly like. The world was no longer simply black and white. People started seeing all the varying shades of gray in between. Heroes and Villains were no longer cut and dry. The hero to some was the villain to others and vice versa. Sometimes the hero had to do villainous things for the good of everyone. Sometimes the villain's evil plans weren't as evil as originally thought. People started to learn it was possible to sympathize with a villain, or hate the hero who was saving them. Heroes were no longer impenetrable, infallible , unstoppable, godly beacons of purity. They were real people with real feelings and emotions, who could get hurt, who could stumble and fall. Who could make mistakes, brood over their loss, their pain, but still keep fighting for what they thought was right. Villains were no longer, uncaring, ruthless embodiments of evil. Villains could also be human, just like the heroes, but walked a different path, and sometimes have a change of heart.

    As time went on, these new gray areas of heroes and villains started springing new life into the worlds of story telling. People were drawn to the ones the spoke to them the most on a personal level. Some still want those infallible beacons of purity, and so they are drawn to the old stories. Some feel a connection to the brooding heroes who suffer alone as they fight for others. Some are drawn to the villain who is hated by many, but his "evil" plan could potential help everyone in the long run. So we no longer had just heroes and villains, we had vigilantes, anti-heroes, and anti-villains. We had stories to fill that gray area, and the world embraces them, because everyone has something to connect to now. So it may seem that the days of the "Classic" heroes and villains are gone, but they're not gone, they just evolved to match the new world. The classics will always be around, but now they share the world with all the ones in between.

    As far as what you see in game, well that fits in with what I stated above. People create the characters that they have a connection to. I have seen, and still see, tons of classic inspired "tights and capes" heroes with flashy colors. Especially during any CC where Tights, or Classic Hero, looks are a cat. I, myself, have a very wide range of characters. From Classic looks, to dark and brooding, to evil and villainous, to flashy and futuristic, high tech, animalistic, and weird, funny, and crazy. Just all depends on what comes to mind, and what suits my mood at the time.
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    dialamx wrote: »
    So this is a long thread, and I'm not going to go through and read every single response. But I am going to drop a response to the OP.

    At one time it was easy to distinguish heroes and villains. Heroes wore white (or some other bright flashy color) and villains wore black (or some other dark color). Heroes fought for the ideals of the society that saw them as heroes, and the villains tried to stop, or change those ideals. As time went on, things changed, peoples minds started opening up, looking past the propaganda to see what the other sides were truly like. The world was no longer simply black and white. People started seeing all the varying shades of gray in between. Heroes and Villains were no longer cut and dry. The hero to some was the villain to others and vice versa. Sometimes the hero had to do villainous things for the good of everyone. Sometimes the villain's evil plans weren't as evil as originally thought. People started to learn it was possible to sympathize with a villain, or hate the hero who was saving them. Heroes were no longer impenetrable, infallible , unstoppable, godly beacons of purity. They were real people with real feelings and emotions, who could get hurt, who could stumble and fall. Who could make mistakes, brood over their loss, their pain, but still keep fighting for what they thought was right. Villains were no longer, uncaring, ruthless embodiments of evil. Villains could also be human, just like the heroes, but walked a different path, and sometimes have a change of heart.

    As time went on, these new gray areas of heroes and villains started springing new life into the worlds of story telling. People were drawn to the ones the spoke to them the most on a personal level. Some still want those infallible beacons of purity, and so they are drawn to the old stories. Some feel a connection to the brooding heroes who suffer alone as they fight for others. Some are drawn to the villain who is hated by many, but his "evil" plan could potential help everyone in the long run. So we no longer had just heroes and villains, we had vigilantes, anti-heroes, and anti-villains. We had stories to fill that gray area, and the world embraces them, because everyone has something to connect to now. So it may seem that the days of the "Classic" heroes and villains are gone, but they're not gone, they just evolved to match the new world. The classics will always be around, but now they share the world with all the ones in between.

    As far as what you see in game, well that fits in with what I stated above. People create the characters that they have a connection to. I have seen, and still see, tons of classic inspired "tights and capes" heroes with flashy colors. Especially during any CC where Tights, or Classic Hero, looks are a cat. I, myself, have a very wide range of characters. From Classic looks, to dark and brooding, to evil and villainous, to flashy and futuristic, high tech, animalistic, and weird, funny, and crazy. Just all depends on what comes to mind, and what suits my mood at the time.

    How dare you have a range of personas!
  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    dialamx wrote: »
    "..."

    That is the deception of gray areas, speaking in terms of heroes and villains, Anakin Skywalker, grey areas where set up for him as a lure and like anyone who begins to sacrifice principles, or lack them to begin with, they fall to darkness and people suffer.

    Characters who need vengeance, or to satisfy any self-serving motivation based upon greed or loss of emotional control, always leads to evil. You bring up a good talking point about a lack of traditional role models, or worse yet, the redefining of them, that's how we get so many supervillains and misguided anti-heroes that no matter what their claim their inspiration to be, it always turns out to be self-serving. The hero, a true hero is selfless, willing to give his life to save another, even his nemesis when possible, willing to negotiate and forgive and offer a second chance to his foes....evil characters (I'll pick on Dark Helmet since he was brought up earlier) lol, people who are wicked in their hearts can't understand or comprehend the hero being willing to reach out with mercy, fairness and honesty because that is how "a good person/society" functions...the villain mocks them for it because it doesn't compute, "..because good is dumb.." they are always looking for a way to meet their own goals, sink to any level no matter who they have to run over. Their ways are self serving, so when the pomp sets in they give that iconic villain laugh. How can someone offer dignity, compassion and mercy when they dont have it to begin with? Yet in the end they always end up being destroyed because of that greedy/hateful taint in their mindset drives them mad. In this game, the adventure pack "Resistance" we see even Harmon's approach to leaving that norm and creating his new one, and oh boy what a nightmare scenario he created.

    Once you leave the common core understanding of good and evil, it always ends up in disaster....it just dawned on me, when people who read books gather to discuss them, they often do so with tea and cookies, being a gaming and comic conversation, Im guess doritos and Mt Dew would be our refreshments? XD

    I suppose for the sake of drama, such things need play out to give heroes a challenge, like Captain America and Ironman fighting over if Bucky was worth redeeming, since it was mind control....but the loss of Starks parents left him emotionally compromised. If it had been Pepper, it would have changed his point of view radically. Without that stability of core morals and ethics, the entropy of society sets in, and slowly turns a people towards savagery like the book "The Time Machine" entertained.

    Post edited by catstarsto on

    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,085 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    Then again, Bruce Wayne is driven by vengeance, perpetually bringing retribution for the murder of his parents. He deliberately made himself a figure of terror to the underworld. Yet his desire is also to protect innocent people from suffering as he suffered. While in the history of comics he started as more of a straight vigilante, the evolution of his unbreakable code against killing gives him a firm moral center. The Batman doesn't follow the letter of the law, but he very much believes in its spirit.

    I consider the character an outstanding example of grey in comics. While he may be the archetypal "dark" superhero, there's much about him that is also of the light. And the interplay and conflict between his two sides are a big part of what makes him interesting.
  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    bulgarex wrote: »
    Then again, Bruce Wayne is driven by vengeance, perpetually bringing retribution for the murder of his parents. He deliberately made himself a figure of terror to the underworld. Yet his desire is also to protect innocent people from suffering as he suffered. While in the history of comics he started as more of a straight vigilante, the evolution of his unbreakable code against killing gives him a firm moral center. The Batman doesn't follow the letter of the law, but he very much believes in its spirit.

    I consider the character an outstanding example of grey in comics. While he may be the archetypal "dark" superhero, there's much about him that is also of the light. And the interplay and conflict between his two sides are a big part of what makes him interesting.

    Batman I just cant peg down, each writer creates a whole new person; I've seen him snap and become a tyrant ruling over Gotham city until they revolted and burned down his mansion with him in it...I've also seen him sit with Ace in JLU, to try and comfort her before he killed her....and like in the link, I've seen him as a silly kids show hero. But he is also paranoid and keeps files on everyone and how to destroy them, given just the right push in the wrong direction, he could just as easily end up in arkham, since he falls into the mastermind archtype. But all writers seem to agree, he isnt easy to get along with on a social level, none of his relationships last due to his issues.

    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • metalheart#4270 metalheart Posts: 256 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    Why are villianous heroes better you may ask? The classic superhero antics are just not as good, I just refuse to believe these guys would save the day while settling for less in human life. Anti heroes are more relatable. There stories have greater depths. Why I cried over Yandu's self sacrifice and didn't care much for Superman death. Because Superman has the same amount of personality as a brick. Save the day, kissy face his GF, fly over a farm of corn. No one above the age of 5 wants to read about "goody 2 shoes" MoralMan. If a character is too nice he/she serves better contrast on a team with an edgier guy. All these beast superheroes as well are better off on team with contrast.

    I must also add that I love well writen villians like Joker and Lex Luther, these guys are just the kind of pricks to come around mess with ones day. Without these guys the heroes are nothing.
    Post edited by metalheart#4270 on
  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    edited December 2020

    I must also add that I love well writen villians like Joker and Lex Luther, these guys are just the kind of pricks to come around mess with ones day. Without these guys the heroes are nothing.

    That is something I can agree with, the best written villains are the ones that do such heinous things, that you cant help but hate them. Lex Luther was always out to dirty Superman's name since he had not the other means to stop him. That fake bomb in that one episode to make him rush to stop it, a scheme to make Superman look bad by exploiting his heroic mannerisms...even though everyone knew who and what Lex Luther was about, and Superman, even with the credibility of being always honest and committed to do good, they still believed Lex over him (an unfortunate failing in RL too) and that type of political style trolling is what makes him the kind of villain that is a pure hearted persons worst enemy. Those kind that take personal joy in tearing down good people through sneaky means of trolling and baiting, pretending to be a victim when at their weakest but unleashing without mercy with every bit they have once they know they have the advantage. I believe That suits Joker, Lex and dont forget Palpatine, that guy always made me grit my teeth at the screen.

    It keeps me glued to the tv/book waiting to see how the hero will get out that mess!

    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,085 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    Why are villianous heroes better you may ask? The classic superhero antics are just not as good, I just refuse to believe these guys would save the day while settling for less in human life. Anti heroes are more relatable. There stories have greater depths. Why I cried over Yandu's self sacrifice and didn't care much for Superman death. Because Superman has the same amount of personality as a brick. Save the day, kissy face his GF, fly over a farm of corn. No one above the age of 5 wants to read about "goody 2 shoes" MoralMan. If a character is too nice he/she serves better contrast on a team with an edgier guy. All these beast superheroes as well are better off on team with contrast.

    I must also add that I love well writen villians like Joker and Lex Luther, these guys are just the kind of pricks to come around mess with ones day. Without these guys the heroes are nothing.







    It's all in the execution. As Neil Gaiman (award-winning author, including comics) once said, "Superman doesn't need to be relatable. He just needs to be inspiring."

    Post edited by bulgarex on
  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    I just watched this and felt like sharing it, since he brings up some good observations. But concerning Captain marvel, I think her biggest weakness is they made her an OP mary sue to honor the present politics and a narcissist to make her relatable to the character's target audience. Glorifying it as a virtue.

    Rocket is the kinda hard to stay angry with when he's being a punk since they designed him to look cute.

    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    “ Captain marvel, I think her biggest weakness is they made her an OP mary sue to honor the present politics and a narcissist to make her relatable to the character's target audience. Glorifying it as a virtue.”

    Dude, insecure much? Keep your political agenda out of forums for a moment.
  • crazyflip#4138 crazyflip Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    I second what the previous poster said.

    It seems castrato is just wanting to push some BS political agenda.

    Leave it out, we don't need that crap on the forums, it's bad enough in-game. It's also against the rules of these here forums, as stated at the top section of the forums...

    "You may not create posts which contain:

    • Posting of off-topic comments, including but not limited to comments or discussions of a religious, or political nature."

    smh
    ...pretentious humble brag about how I am actually better than everyone and a hero to all. If you don't agree you don't get it *cries*
  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    Instead of getting defensive, watch the movie and see what I mean. They made a glorified narcissist with no real limits, walking about doing as she pleases...and just gets a free pass for what ever she may come up short in, what others would have been put on Dr. Strange's or SHEILDS watch list for how she started bombing around earth in her own movie, they just praise her for a lot of offscreen stuff too in Avengers. The target audience seems to be people with her exact personality.

    Honestly, if they had planned on making such a powerful character with a bit of sass, they should have not been so lazy with the writing and just expected everyone to automatically think everything she did was cool or ok, as a passive reaction. Im not even sure you would call her an anti hero, its just someone who is "passively special" and everyone goes along with it without any real growth written into the storylines for her.

    Its not insecurity, its criticism of what I believe is ether lazy writing or trying to push something and the movie and character suffered for it. She had potential to be a really cool character. Its also on topic for the discussion, while not about the game in that post you freaked out over, its still on topic for comic book/movie heroes discussion so "enhance your calm John Spartan."

    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • ansemthedarkansemthedark Posts: 402 Arc User
    Yes, and everyone I know hates this movie for her not having any character and or making her OP like this and making men mostly look all like assholes because of males. What is your point by now here tho, if I want an analysis of those movies to prove a point I watch the countless reviews on it that ripped that garbage excuse of a movie already into a thousand pieces.
  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    What is your point by now here tho,

    Conversation, ...at this point about things I guess are old news to others on comic hero movies Im just now getting to see. I just keep forgetting the majority of people here have a chip on their shoulder, and are unapproachable. And thats a shame, in a public forum about comic book heroes and a game made about them, you still get bit by people for "wrong thinking" I spend more time defending myself for my questions, POV and observations than actually getting to hear other peoples thoughts and opinions on the subject. Its not like I have the liberty to just visit places and people to talk about these things anymore, those times are gone forever...we only have technology to communicate with others, and we loose that much more of our humanity by now only having this cold impersonal way to do so. Because as you can see how fast people forget they are speaking to another human being on the other end, so Instead of getting, "I agree/disagree with you and here is why..." I end up more often than not just getting, "SHUT UP!" "Censor him!" or (random mockery) and that is on every platform I've tried to speak to others. It makes me wonder if there is anyone in the games I play sometimes who isn't hostile, unfriendly or vulgar.

    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • ansemthedarkansemthedark Posts: 402 Arc User
    catstarsto wrote: »
    What is your point by now here tho,

    Conversation, ...at this point about things I guess are old news to others on comic hero movies Im just now getting to see. I just keep forgetting the majority of people here have a chip on their shoulder, and are unapproachable. And thats a shame, in a public forum about comic book heroes and a game made about them, you still get bit by people for "wrong thinking" I spend more time defending myself for my questions, POV and observations than actually getting to hear other peoples thoughts and opinions on the subject. Its not like I have the liberty to just visit places and people to talk about these things anymore, those times are gone forever...we only have technology to communicate with others, and we loose that much more of our humanity by now only having this cold impersonal way to do so. Because as you can see how fast people forget they are speaking to another human being on the other end, so Instead of getting, "I agree/disagree with you and here is why..." I end up more often than not just getting, "SHUT UP!" "Censor him!" or (random mockery) and that is on every platform I've tried to speak to others. It makes me wonder if there is anyone in the games I play sometimes who isn't hostile, unfriendly or vulgar.

    Oh? You mean like when you shot me down when i made my first post here, how i missed your point and that i should be careful what i talk about?

    Sure. You are being hypocritical at this point, and you not want a conversation, no you only want to have your side of things proved and your points approved of.
  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    edited December 2020

    Oh? You mean like when you shot me down when i made my first post here, how i missed your point and that i should be careful what i talk about?

    Sure. You are being hypocritical at this point, and you not want a conversation, no you only want to have your side of things proved and your points approved of.

    You brought up gender politics, I wasn't going there. Its usually a subject someone brings up when they want the thread closed down because it often invites derailing discussion, and I wasn't sure of your intent...it felt like bait. SO I clearly stated it was a can of worms I wanted no part of.

    As for my POV of the subject, I give relevant universe references of how I come to those conclusions for the discussion.

    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    Cat likes to post topics so he can somehow squeeze in his supremacy and bigotry. If you look at his comments and history it’s a simple topic disguised at political propaganda.

    He fills it with his self righteousness and intolerance. He’s a special type of snowflake though.
  • ansemthedarkansemthedark Posts: 402 Arc User
    catstarsto wrote: »

    Oh? You mean like when you shot me down when i made my first post here, how i missed your point and that i should be careful what i talk about?

    Sure. You are being hypocritical at this point, and you not want a conversation, no you only want to have your side of things proved and your points approved of.

    You brought up gender politics, I wasn't going there. Its usually a subject someone brings up when they want the thread closed down because it often invites derailing discussion, and I wasn't sure of your intent...it felt like bait. SO I clearly stated it was a can of worms I wanted no part of.

    As for my POV of the subject, I give relevant universe references of how I come to those conclusions for the discussion.

    In short, you can't take a civilized talk about a topic because i use such as example and accuse it as bait from the start. See your error here? Everything can be a dangerous and sensitive subject to talk about today, do you know why i used the gender topic? Did you ever hear of Women in Refrigerators come from? From comics. So why does it not fit here? Because it is sensitive?

    Yet you bring up the Captain Marvel movie talking about the exact same in a way. If you shoot every argument down with as bait because you not like it then you should look in the mirror once in a while maybe, because your whole topic and comments can be bait as well if people would interpret it that way.

    This is the last thing i say to this, because you clearly defend only your standpoint with all you can, linking a lot of things to make you look like you researched well and to prove your side, letting people only see one side of things, the things you link.
  • crazyflip#4138 crazyflip Posts: 103 Arc User
    > @ansemthedark said:
    > Oh? You mean like when you shot me down when i made my first post here, how i missed your point and that i should be careful what i talk about?
    >
    > Sure. You are being hypocritical at this point, and you not want a conversation, no you only want to have your side of things proved and your points approved of.

    Nailed it
    ...pretentious humble brag about how I am actually better than everyone and a hero to all. If you don't agree you don't get it *cries*
  • crazyflip#4138 crazyflip Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    > @ealford1985 said:
    > Cat likes to post topics so he can somehow squeeze in his supremacy and bigotry. If you look at his comments and history it’s a simple topic disguised at political propaganda.
    >
    > He fills it with his self righteousness and intolerance. He’s a special type of snowflake though.

    Looking back at that history you're right.

    Thanks for the heads up, it confirms my suspicions. I imagine that's the reason the OP got banned from the STO forums too.

    Edit: after a little bit of Internet digging you were exactly right, ealford. They were constantly Trying to throw their self-righteous morality about over on sto forums and actually used other platforms (deviantart and youtube amongst others) to harass a lgbtq+ individual.

    I found screenshots but won't share as it is very hateful stuff.

    I'm out.
    Post edited by crazyflip#4138 on
    ...pretentious humble brag about how I am actually better than everyone and a hero to all. If you don't agree you don't get it *cries*
  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    edited December 2020

    In short, you can't take a civilized talk about a topic because i use such as example and accuse it as bait from the start. See your error here? Everything can be a dangerous and sensitive subject to talk about today, do you know why i used the gender topic? Did you ever hear of Women in Refrigerators come from? From comics. So why does it not fit here? Because it is sensitive?

    Yet you bring up the Captain Marvel movie talking about the exact same in a way. If you shoot every argument down with as bait because you not like it then you should look in the mirror once in a while maybe, because your whole topic and comments can be bait as well if people would interpret it that way.

    This is the last thing i say to this, because you clearly defend only your standpoint with all you can, linking a lot of things to make you look like you researched well and to prove your side, letting people only see one side of things, the things you link.

    The only one I remember who was in a refrigerator was Indiana Jones. Im also still not going to talk about "it", ealford is already starting to toss out Mod baiting accusations for things he feels he can provoke me to say. Thats what I wish to avoid!!

    Instead of complaining of my references, come up with ones of your own to show us where you come from, I enjoy the visual aspects of video clips and even comic pages, I'm sure others (who are actually here for the discussion) do as well. Don't just start projecting with bitterness like ealford, he has nothing on topic to add, he's venting in the hopes his own safe space will returned. Biting when he thinks another is going to. But I think the discussion between us can be salvaged if your intent is to actually say, "hey, look at this, this and this, here's what I mean." If that is the case, please continue, I'm all ears.

    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
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