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Concerning dodge tanks
oxidization
Posts: 11 Arc User
Dear Cryptic (and the rest of the forum),
I am writing this forum thread out of concern for the current state of dodge tanks. Please consider this as a plea to get them looked at. I will not cover Avoidance (though Avoidance is very important to dodge tanks, I consider it out of the scope of my plea), merely Dodge Chance.
I am concerned for Dodge Tanks, because their build cost (equipment, mostly) is absurdly high compared to the tanking, supporting or damaging builds.
In my plea, I will use two terms for the dodge stats.
Allow me to first educate on how a dodge tank is made.
A dodge tank is only viable by getting 100% Dodge Chance% (or even more than that, since Kigatilik decreases dodge rate). There are a few ways to get this done:
Now, here comes the problem.
Legion Breastplate of Elusiveness costs at least 800G in the current state of the economy, or 300 Drifter Salvage (A lot of lockboxes (real life money)). Dexterity mods are the most expensive (superstat) mods in the game: One Rank-7 Dexterity mod costs 300~350G. Gambler mods cost the same, also 300~350G at Rank 7.
If you do not have the breastplate, nor atleast a few decent mods, you will not have the leeway to get Confront mods for threat generation or Constitution mods to get to a safer amount of hitpoints for a tank to have.
Your build is also not very flexible at all. As previously established, you will need the Thundering Kicks combo, meaning that a Ranged build is out of the question. Because of that, you will want a lunge too. Just Thundering Kicks and the block will probably not get you enough dodge chance either, so you'll either want a Martial Arts energy builder with Drunken Master or the Sentry Specialization tree for Twist Fate. There are other abilities that give Dodge Chance%, such as Sword Cyclone or Lead Tempest, but these only give the dodge while maintaining the ability, which you can't be doing at all times, given that you need to use your kick combo.
When you have all this, you finally have a decent tank. Congratulations! Now you just have to make sure you are not getting a spike of lag, wherein you miss the opportunity to refresh your Thundering Kicks buff. This is a bit the nature of Dodge Tanks though, so I will not complain about that.
However then you realise, after your purse got at least 1.000G lighter, your fellow tanks using Defiance or Invulnerability only needed to have a R3 Block and a bunch of constitution. You needed that too, but on top of that, you traded off with having less health, less threat, less flexibility in choice of powers and a dependancy on combo'ing.
Now- How do I think this all could be alleviated some for the Dodgy enthusiasts?
Please mind, this does not only impact the Freeforms (who, arguably, are more dedicated to the game). We've also got The Master and The Samurai.
Please also mind, not having at least 100% dodge chance% is not considered as viable. If you are tanking a boss with 90% dodge chance%, you have a 10% chance your incoming damage is not getting soothed by your generous Avoidance, and you will die.
Edit: Lead Tempest is the one with dodge. Bullet Hail is a damage shield. Whoopsie
I am writing this forum thread out of concern for the current state of dodge tanks. Please consider this as a plea to get them looked at. I will not cover Avoidance (though Avoidance is very important to dodge tanks, I consider it out of the scope of my plea), merely Dodge Chance.
I am concerned for Dodge Tanks, because their build cost (equipment, mostly) is absurdly high compared to the tanking, supporting or damaging builds.
In my plea, I will use two terms for the dodge stats.
- Dodge Chance% -- This is the dodge rate percentage as it shows on your character page. This stat is absolute, what it shows is what it does.
- Dodge Rate -- This is the dodge chance stat given by gear, mods etc. This stat is relative, it gets taken through a formula that applies Diminishing Returns*.
Allow me to first educate on how a dodge tank is made.
A dodge tank is only viable by getting 100% Dodge Chance% (or even more than that, since Kigatilik decreases dodge rate). There are a few ways to get this done:
- Your Primary Super Stat must be either Constitution or Dexterity, because of the specialisation that makes your Dexterity give Dodge Rating
- Your passive must be Lightning Reflexes. This passive gives 40% Dodge Chance%.
- You must have at least a Legion's Breastplate of Elusiveness, or a Legendary Primary Defense with 2 Defense Mod slots* containing a Gambler R5 in both slots
- You must have Thundering Kicks from the Unarmed MA powerset. This gives 18% Dodge Chance%
- You must have either the Reflect or Parry block from Single Sword or Unarmed MA powersets respectively. These give a substantial amount of Dodge Chance% due to the advantage "The Elusive Monk"
- Your Dexterity must be atleast 450 (endgame gear) or 550 (no endgame gear)
Now, here comes the problem.
Legion Breastplate of Elusiveness costs at least 800G in the current state of the economy, or 300 Drifter Salvage (A lot of lockboxes (real life money)). Dexterity mods are the most expensive (superstat) mods in the game: One Rank-7 Dexterity mod costs 300~350G. Gambler mods cost the same, also 300~350G at Rank 7.
If you do not have the breastplate, nor atleast a few decent mods, you will not have the leeway to get Confront mods for threat generation or Constitution mods to get to a safer amount of hitpoints for a tank to have.
Your build is also not very flexible at all. As previously established, you will need the Thundering Kicks combo, meaning that a Ranged build is out of the question. Because of that, you will want a lunge too. Just Thundering Kicks and the block will probably not get you enough dodge chance either, so you'll either want a Martial Arts energy builder with Drunken Master or the Sentry Specialization tree for Twist Fate. There are other abilities that give Dodge Chance%, such as Sword Cyclone or Lead Tempest, but these only give the dodge while maintaining the ability, which you can't be doing at all times, given that you need to use your kick combo.
When you have all this, you finally have a decent tank. Congratulations! Now you just have to make sure you are not getting a spike of lag, wherein you miss the opportunity to refresh your Thundering Kicks buff. This is a bit the nature of Dodge Tanks though, so I will not complain about that.
However then you realise, after your purse got at least 1.000G lighter, your fellow tanks using Defiance or Invulnerability only needed to have a R3 Block and a bunch of constitution. You needed that too, but on top of that, you traded off with having less health, less threat, less flexibility in choice of powers and a dependancy on combo'ing.
Now- How do I think this all could be alleviated some for the Dodgy enthusiasts?
- Give more powers an advantage with a lingering Dodge Chance% buff.
- 'Flattening the curve' of the diminishing returns of Dodge Rate.
Please mind, this does not only impact the Freeforms (who, arguably, are more dedicated to the game). We've also got The Master and The Samurai.
Please also mind, not having at least 100% dodge chance% is not considered as viable. If you are tanking a boss with 90% dodge chance%, you have a 10% chance your incoming damage is not getting soothed by your generous Avoidance, and you will die.
Edit: Lead Tempest is the one with dodge. Bullet Hail is a damage shield. Whoopsie
Post edited by oxidization on
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Dodge rating should be reevaluated for it's effectiveness, and scaled up to meet the other forms of defense. Otherwise, other buffs and items should be provided to at least supplement dodge for endgame use, imo.