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Regeneration tank

squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 869 Arc User
in Builds and Roles
Is it just me, or is the regeneration passive heal really unimpressive. I'm in purple secondaries and blue primaries with R5s, but i'd still expect more than the tooltip's claimed 592hp per 3s, especially since it doesn't benefit from presence or (afaict) concentration.

Am I missing something? Is the tooltip lying about how much healing it does? I hope I'm missing something, since this character only hit 40 last week. I've got both the moonstruck regen advantage and resurgence - can't seem to find other powers with any direct interaction.

Comparison:
Endorphin Rush is over 300hp per 2s, base, with my current con and rec, and with concentration it gets up to over 500hp per 2s, which is more hp/s than regen...

Even R1 Moonstruck is 110hp per sec for me, which is more than half as much as regen.

Current build:
https://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm?v=35&n=&d=16370DhPOY37063000N000D204N903NB00NG0JNM0KNL0WNP0bNK03DF03JN031O045I00NF000mys0tak2LvS10000000000&e=

Other things I'm looking at changing:
-Howl as AoE challenge doesn't really work well, probably have to choose the spinning chain thing, but i wanted to try it, since the chain isn't really in theme.
-Concentration doesn't seem to do anything for regeneration, so that probably should change to something else, even though it does benefit Endorphin Rush and Moonstruck. Also, probably can't take enough Rec to scale it well and still have enough hp. Not sure what I use instead, since nothing stacks with Con. IDF i guess?
-Maybe go with Eviscerate instead of Massacre to turn bleed -> open wound and get the better thrash heal. Would free up some advantage points for elsewhere.
-Try to find room for a lunge? (hah)
-Might ditch Pre-primary, but the secondary SS increasing defense and crit is kinda nice. Need to evaluate alternatives, it might still be the best option.

Comments

  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    *Compassion, not Concentration.

    Regen's heal value will increase as you improve upon your actual stated superstats. I think one of my Regen characters has over 600 hps. Heal bonuses from gear, specs or powers do not affect it.

    Regeneration as a Defensive Passive is great for leveling but requires a bit of a boost. It's not the worst but its not always competitive with LR/Defiance/Invuln.

    You'll benefit from going STR/CON/REC and stacking for defense for a start.

    Regeneration does increase its healing when you take damage, it heals in excess of the stated value on tooltip but unfortunately this also means the damage resistance it has scales down quite quickly.

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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    Regeneration peaks at 2.5x its tooltip value. It's not ideal for superheavy tanking like cosmics but it's perfectly fine for most other content.
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  • luumina#2431 luumina
    luumina#2431
         Posts: 506 Arc User
    i actually love regen, i've yet to faceplant. However, i haven't tried Cosmics with her.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    I've solo tanked all of the cosmics with regen, it's certainly doable. It's just not optimal, you have less margin for error and need to invest more in durability, hurting your threat generation.

    Looking at your build:
    • I recommend strength primary with Juggernaut spec
    • Following that, Aspect of the Bestial will stack easily with your specs.
    • It's probably easier to put Challenge on Moonstruck, not Howl.
    • I would take a power that can refresh your bleed stacks, such as Eviscerate.
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  • squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 869 Arc User
    Does juggernaut scale better than Force of Will, cause it feels like Force of Will should be better for total defense given it scales off both secondary SSes. (And moment of glory should crank crit chance more than i'll get out of str specs, which works well with fortify and reinforce from sentry).
  • h4forumsh4forums Posts: 268 Arc User
    I just want to share that the heal ramping when not blocking feature of regeneration is amazing in general content when paired with shielding attacks (defensive combo, wall of bullets). I guess everyone in this thread knew this already but y'know, for completeness sake.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    squirrelloid wrote: »
    Does juggernaut scale better than Force of Will, cause it feels like Force of Will should be better for total defense given it scales off both secondary SSes. (And moment of glory should crank crit chance more than i'll get out of str specs, which works well with fortify and reinforce from sentry).
    Afaik, their base scaling formula is the same per point invested (w/ each SSS's return for Force of Will being half that of Con's for Jugg), but Juggernaut allows you to get a 3rd point in it for better scaling, so it's generally stronger than Force of Will (unless you aren't pairing Con gearing w/ Juggernaut, ofc, but then you prob shouldn't be taking that spec option anyways).
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    squirrelloid wrote: »
    Does juggernaut scale better than Force of Will, cause it feels like Force of Will should be better for total defense given it scales off both secondary SSes.
    Juggernaut scales on Con. Force of Will scales on the average of your secondary superstats. On a typical build where you have 600 con and 100 in the other secondary superstat, that makes Juggernaut a lot better.
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  • squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 869 Arc User
    pantagruel01 wrote: »
    squirrelloid wrote: »
    Does juggernaut scale better than Force of Will, cause it feels like Force of Will should be better for total defense given it scales off both secondary SSes.
    Juggernaut scales on Con. Force of Will scales on the average of your secondary superstats. On a typical build where you have 600 con and 100 in the other secondary superstat, that makes Juggernaut a lot better.

    That's... kind of awful. Well, i guess Str it is, since i do have a lot more Con.

    Still doesn't give me enough Str to really make aspect of the bestial very good. Think i'm going to stick with compassion, it's almost as much damage, and does boost endorphin and moonstruck. (Admittedly, without hte Pre PSS, moonstruck's heal is significantly worse, but endorphin rush is the bigger deal anyway).
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    Yea, upon further looking, it seems Panta is right. I was comparing SSS's of equal point value before (which put the options at similar defense numbers), but Jugg is indeed also better per point when there's much more Con, relatively.

    As far as Pres_Rec vs. Str for the toggle/forms- if Con is still your main stat, then there shouldn't be much of a difference between the amount of Pres_Rec you'd allocate to Compassion vs. the amount of Str you'd allocate to something like AotB (assuming you don't need to gear for more in the other stats for one vs. the other).
    Post edited by flowcyto on
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 869 Arc User
    flowcyto wrote: »
    Yea, upon further looking, it seems Panta is right. I was comparing SSS's of equal point value before (which put the options at similar defense numbers), but Jugg is indeed also better per point when there's much more Con, relatively.

    As far as Pres_Rec vs. Str for the toggle/forms- if Con is still your main stat, then there shouldn't be much of a difference between the amount of Pres_Rec you'd allocate to Compassion vs. the amount of Str you'd allocate to something like AotB (assuming you don't need to gear for more in the other stats for one vs. the other).

    Need to gear some rec for my eu, don't need to gear any str. (Compassion was scaling on Rec before, so losing Pre PSS doesn't do anything to that).
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    Okay, but have you already tried the Str-based setup w/ AotB in the PH, and if so, are you having energy issues w/ it?
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 869 Arc User
    flowcyto wrote: »
    Okay, but have you already tried the Str-based setup w/ AotB in the PH, and if so, are you having energy issues w/ it?

    I didn't specifically check it for energy issues, but if I'm getting almost the same damage out of compassion with my current Rec (it's ~1% less per stack), more reliably trigger it, and it also benefits every heal that isn't regeneration (which there are 4 of), I've got several reasons to stick with compassion.

    (non-regen heals: endorphin, moonstruck, thrash, and work up - dropped howl for tear down to have the lunge, which also freed up several advantage points)
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    Hm, well the dmg bonus should be more for melee attacks w/ AotB (given similar values of Str vs Rec), but as long as you can still stack Compassion and aren't having threat or energy issues w/ it, then that's fine too, imo.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 869 Arc User
    flowcyto wrote: »
    Hm, well the dmg bonus should be more for melee attacks w/ AotB (given similar values of Str vs Rec), but as long as you can still stack Compassion and aren't having threat or energy issues w/ it, then that's fine too, imo.

    They aren't going to be similar values though. Str isn't getting any gear whatsoever. Rec needs to get some gear because the eu needs to generate enough energy to cover most power uses. (I may need to gear a small amount of endurance, too, because the way supernatural power works, it needs pretty much every power to cost less than 15% of my total energy, at least to initiate, or stalls will be possible. A single R5 (con or rec)/end in secondary gear is probably sufficient). All other stats from gear go to con. It ends up being something like ~100 Str, ~200 Rec, and given that compassion is half boost to damage, that it comes out about the same as AotB feels right.

    Compassion stacks super-easily with endorphin rush or moonstruck, so long as I'm taking damage.

    I imagine any threat issues that arise will be solved with confront mods. (Probably only during cosmics, assuming I even want to be the MT for that).
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    Right, but I think what Panta meant was that in a Str PSS + AotB setup, you wouldn't get more Rec than Str. Instead it'd be more like it was flipped- 100 Rec and 200 Str, or something to that effect. Although your energy return from Supernatural Power will be lower then, you do have Str PSS's Physical Peak and cost discount mods to help counter-balance that (and ofc you can talent for some End/Rec). The energy may still end up being okay then, but it'd be hard to know w/o testing it on the PTS and/or PH, since energy management can be very gear-reliant.

    But again, even if it does end up being okay w/ the Str-based setup, the Compassion setup is also fine if you value the bonus healing more and as long as threat isn't an issue w/ it. I guess the threat aspect is just something you'll just have to observe in practice.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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