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FC.31.20200512.3 - Therakiel's Temple Rework

kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 2,685 Cryptic Developer
Therakiels Temple Rework!
This lair has gotten a total rework! This lair is aimed towards endgame players who want to seek out a challenge!

PTS Testing Only!: Caliburn at the entrance has options to let you warp to the various boss fights in the lair. Please use this if you want to test out specific bosses, but please test out the entire lair before doing this! Warping will prevent rewards from being dropped.

Cutscene skipping!: At the start of the lair there is an interact. If all 5 team members agree all cutscenes will be skipped for the lair. When testing please try playing with and without cutscenes!

The access the lair head to Vibora Bay and enter the Apostolic Church.
  • You no longer need to have the Apocalypse Aversion mission active to enter.
  • Removed large portions of the lair puzzles to shorten the lair.
  • In the Works: We will be adding alert versions of the individual bosses with simplified mechanics in the future. These alerts will feature different rewards from the lair.

Things to look out for while testing: A lot was moved around in this lair, please stay on the lookout for any issues on the maps (geometry holes, mobs stuck places, cutscene oddities, etc).

  • Added the following costumes as potential drops: Therakiel's Sword (new version), Nephilim Wings, Therakiel's Wings, Valerian Scarlet's Halo, Valerian Scarlet's Glow Tights, Black Fang's Tire Armor, Baron Cimetiere's Shoulders, Baron Cimetiere's Face Paint, Vampire Wings.
  • Added the following auras as potential drops: Astral Projection, Therakiel, Therakiel (Wings), Traitorous (Hands).
  • This lair will drop Questionite, SCR and GCR.
  • In the works: While not currently on PTS, this lair will feature new mods and gear.

  • Bosses have had their overall damage increased.
  • Various visual improvements.
  • Various changes to their respective lairs to accomodate the boss mechanics.

Valerian Scarlet
  • Her summoned minions will no longer despawn after a set period of time.
  • Has numerous new abilities that work on a timer.
  • Will move locations through out the fight, picking a new target to attack.

Black Fang
  • Will try and pick off weaker targets.
  • Will occasionally challenge less threatening targets.
  • May make use of objects in the room.
  • His Bad Dog Stomp is far more devastating!

Baron Cimetiere
  • Pay attention to his block, you may need to move to avoid taking additional damage.
  • His zombies are much more hostile.
  • Beware of being defeated in his lair!
  • Known Issues: The visuals for his block abilities are not final.

Vladic Dracul
  • Can now trap players in the cages scattered around his lair. You will need help to get out!
  • Will shroud targets in a swarm of bats, reducing their vision.
  • Known Issues: His Bat Form ability is currently disabled due to various issues with it.

  • Therakiel can now become Light, Dark or Neutral empowered later on in the fight. Players will take additional damage and effects if they have the inappropriate aura affecting them.
  • Players can pass on their aura to allies during this fight.
  • Known Issues: This mechanic is currently not working properly.


  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,764 Arc User

    Teleportation devices work in the instance.

    Also, if you haven't unlocked a respawn point in the New Shadows wing, any death that occurs in Vladic's chamber will respawn you within the Nephilim wing. Shortcut. ;3
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,672 Arc User
    The sigil for skipping cutscenes need to be obviously placed next to Caliburn instead of by the door. It's easily ignored.

    The sigil can't be interacted by at least 1 teammate. (However, if you're alone, you can interact with it)

    Black Fang, Baron and Vlad didn't seem to drop any loot besides their mission items. Actually, not reward circle pops up when boss dies.

    Black fang's stomp needs more damage.

    Baron's mobs might be a problem for some since they spawn endlessly and overwhelm the healer.

    Vlad's Cages' hitbox are small and hard to target(yay for pbaoe i i guess)

    Therakiel seems too easy. Baron was harder but prolly cuz Therakiel's mechanic is busted.

    Therakiel's cutscene after the confrontation is long and has no dialogue

    Caliburn hovers a few feet off the ground when he gets chained.
    Lord Sans (Full Healer FF)/Axel Leonard (Crowd Controller/Off-Tank)
    - - - - - -
    Feel free to visit my websites!^^:
  • qawsadaqawsada Posts: 714 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    When it comes to Baron's fight, his Simon Say dialogue box is vital for the player's survival. So when he turns into a giant, the dialogue box move way above his head, which the dialogue message get block by the UI interface, usually his Target Status, and ruin the player's survival with the Simon Says game if he miss the dialogue.

    Oh, and do something about the cutscene when Therakiels' room. It seem that every time a player enter, the cutscene keep replaying itself.
    Post edited by qawsada on
  • doggepopedoggepope Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    • I was playing a Sentinel Master, Lightning Reflexes control tank, so we were all basically on Therakiel's Temple (Epic (Very Easy)). At some point I'll have to run this again with a less ridiculous character and reformulate my thoughts. Even so, I have my experiences in TA to go by, and for something meant to be a step up, it isn't there just yet.
    • Player AoE is emphasised a lot - by that I mean you the character, not just a vehicle - something it alone demands when not even Save the Earth! strictly requires it! Enemies have high health, there's like a million of them, and you can't just ignore them all. It's weird now, but if more and more endgame content needs something besides single-target Cosmic drag racing, I think I could get used to it.
    • Henchmen are more dangerous than in Teleios Ascendant. A lone Manipulator left to their own devices dropped our 7k health teammate in about a second and a half before anyone could react. Characters with high CC strength get a lot of opportunities for preventive care, which I love.
    • Bosses, on the other hand. . . well, I won't mince words - on the whole they're anemic. I was blocklessly drumming my damage rotation on everything but Cimetiere.
    • Mirror puzzles are simpler than I remember, which is nice. The polarity puzzles are exactly as I remember them, getting trapped in corners and knock-locked, and the ceiling isn't always high enough to get yourself out without a teleport device. So that's not great.
    • The New Shadows wing has a lot of weird object culling at high camera angles that made it really difficult to see where I was actually going.
    • We went in with cutscenes turned on, which ended up being a mistake when Therakiel's introductory cinematic played for the entire team whenever one person entered the room.
    • Removing normal TT was a surprise. I wouldn't know the development cost of maintaining it, though.
    • These two are grouped because they were both total speed bumps to our team. I didn't understand their mechanics at all because we had enough defense and healing to power through any avoidable damage. No serious attacks, no debuffs that affected our survivability. Valerian used some kind of Sigils of the Storm power that she either aimed to the far side of the room or teleported herself out of, and Black Fang summoned a bunch of adds and used some area damage and knock-ups, but. . . I don't know. I'm sorry I don't have any real feedback beyond "boss easy."
    • I want to preface this by saying that Baron Cimetiere is easily my favourite of the five. This is what I was expecting from the new Therakiel's Temple going in, and if this wall of text has any power whatsoever, let it be that I would rather things be tuned up to his level more than him down to the rest. That said, I can pick out one big problem with one little fix.
    • You're meant to do the opposite of what Cimetiere says when he's getting out his shield, which I don't mind. It's a cute gotcha for first-time runners. But there are things going around it that continue being an issue even after you understand what to do. When the cost of impunctuality comes to the tune of 4-5k pure damage a tick, four seconds feels like one, or even half a second too little to add "not trusting what the game tells you" to the two or three other things battling for headspace while you're darting in and out of safety. A lone speech bubble is not enough of a tell, for this reason and others, but you already said the visual cues aren't final so I'll leave off.
    • The zombies are a pretty serious presence even with solid tanks, given their numbers. I'm willing to chalk this up to "git gud" but they were quite punishing to our squishy folk when everything in this fight is punitive of small mistakes as it is.
    • (ed: his direct attack damage is still pretty low though)
    • He bugged out on our second attempt and wouldn't do anything, even die - he totally glitched at 0 HP and one of us had to /killme then teleport us out of the room before we could leave. I walked away with not much understanding of the fight except that targeting the cages is a pain. The object has all these holes in it blocking line of sight to the target point that as melee I had a lot of trouble.
    • As a non-Cimetiere boss he's only really dangerous to squishies who don't block, except for Runeblade Annihilation which proved surprisingly lethal when it slipped my defenses. His AoE knockback is obnoxious, moreso that it showed a Shadow Army Frag Grenade-like disregard for blocking. As for his curse and the purpose of the stakes, I can't offer much. We wiped early the first time, and he froze up right on the second.
    • Like on Live, we could just beat on him until he fell over, only he had ten times as much health. I guess his major mechanics aren't even in yet, so that's to be expected.
    Post edited by doggepope on
  • poptartmaniac#8493 poptartmaniac Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    My Review
    *We ran it twice, once I was a LR dodge tank, the other I was a healer while the tank was running defiant. The rest of the team was dps on both runs.

    Valerian Scarlet
    *I was very happy to see her damage was buffed, and her mobs and sigils actually being something we had to deal with, however I feel as if it isn't enough as we didn't really understand the mechanics either like doggepope's team, we just brute forced through it without an issue because of our resistance and healing. Her only threat was that vengeance spam she does at the end, and the random shatter attack.
    * For the first 1/3 of the fight valerian kept pointing at caliburn and talking rather than attacking, until the 2/3 health bar triggers her teleport.

    -My suggestion is to buff her normal damage and reduce the enrage timer to make it trigger faster and actually make her a challenge.

    Black Fang
    *I really liked his mechanics, his swapping to less threatening targets, his jump, him calling the dogs. everything seemed to work alright but he was barely doing any damage at all to anyone so he wasn't much of a threat.

    -My suggestion is to buff his damage, and make the dogs appear earlier in the fight or even multiple times, rather than when he's less than 1/3 about to die. It would provide more of a challenge to the team and encourage an OT or CC.
    -Just like Val, I recommend his enrage timer to be reduced.
    -His stomp was epic, but way too predictable and slow, I'd recommend him doing it at random and more often than not, if possible.

    Baron Cimitiere
    *Possibly the hardest fight in the encounter, it was very confusing at first until our teammate pointed out the chat bubble. It was however very hard to see when he gets enraged. But you did mention the visuals aren't final so it's all good.
    *Other than his block baron was barely doing any damage to anyone which makes the fight a little too easy once you figure out his block mechanic.
    *Some people mentioned his disable attack turns you into a bomb or something, I never noticed such a thing so if it's true it must not be working as intended? Also he would bug and hold the same person 4 times in a row.
    *I really liked the zombies being more of a threat it really encouraged having an OT or CCer, or a tankier healer, to handle the mobs as they were tearing down on everyone.

    -My suggestion is to buff his regular damage for sure, and rather than nerfing him down to match the other 4, make the other 4 just as hard and entertaining.

    Vladic Dracul
    *This was probably my favorite fight, I think we had a different experience on this one opposed to the other teams that did it, but I think it's because he enraged quite early for us making him a lot harder and definitely a lot of fun to fight. What I liked about this fight is the amount of things we had to manage, the cages, the bite, the explody Reaper's Embrace (That thing hit me for 44k and caused an AOE explosion!!), the clap. the blood on the bottom that heals him, the stakes, his aoe combo shredding the people in the back, I loved it.
    * Also one thing to note is the amount of aoe on him encouraged having a bubbler support, which I really liked, however damage on everything is very low so it's not necesarry as of this version of PTS TT.
    *His cage mechanic was very fun, however the cages are really bugged and can only be attacked from VERY specific angles otherwise it says "You cannot see cage."

    - My suggestion would be to buff his single target damage, and as I mentioned with val and black fang, reduce his enrage timer, so that he actually does it earlier, or make it always trigger at 1/3.
    - You can cheese his knock by either being ranged or having flight. I recommend his aoe knocks to have a bigger radius, and to disable travel powers.
    - I liked his batswarm chasing one person and having everyone forced to stay away from said person or to get devoured. but I noticed their damage was inconsistent, either a lot of damage or nearly none at all.

    *It felt just like old therakiel except he had more HP so we were actually forced to deal with his mechanics now (Which are very fun btw). I think he is lacking damage he barely does anything and he barely spawns any mobs, like 2 or 3 very weak mobs.

    - I'd suggest his damage is buffed, and the mobs as well, as well as the amount of mobs to deal with.
    -the statue spawns are weird, and it barely spawns any. so it wasn't a threat.
    -his eyebeam is barely a threat to anyone, and the lights are too close so it barely requires coordination to deal with, you can just have someone camp at a light. And the healer can just heal that person quite easily without effort. You can also cheese this eyebeam by having pets up he'll eyebeam them. and you can move during his eyebeam stun.
    - I was hoping his ultimate was more threatening, as it looks insanely awesome. But it barely did anything and he rarely ever triggered it, I feel like if the fight was more intense and he triggers it more often while we have to deal with the other mechanics it would be a noticeable thing to deal with.

    * I felt like an OT or CC was not needed for most of it (likely cuz it's not refined and bugs aren't fixed yet) it felt like we brute forced through most of it with 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps and barely had an issue.
    *Reward pool only appeared for val, and therakiel, a teammate actually got therakiel blade device from it and it looked awesome, I wish it could be colored
    *I've said this already but bosses weren't threatening enough until enraged, and if you had a strong enough team you could bulldoze through it without the enemies getting enraged. Suggest buffing their damage and lowering enrage timer or setting it to proc at a certain point of their hp bar, like 1/3 or 1/2.
    * Don't know if it was for testing purposes but puzzle is way too easy cuz lights are right next to statue and while others may disagree with me, I loved the puzzle part in that dungeon :(
    * There's tons of gaps around the map that allow you to skip to other bosses, specifically in Baron's area before you drop down to the pool, on the left when entering that room there's a hole in the wall.
    * Therakiel's cutscene replays over and over for every teammate that goes in. Also Therakiel and Caliburn are menacingly threatening the pillars!! And Caliburn seems to be recreating the spongebob ascended meme while chained up. (He's floating) and there's 2 or 3 caliburns in that last room.
    * The skip cutscene button was only working for the first person to interact with it and no one else.

    Also kinda happy to see those quest drop items from the bosses in the debugger. Does this mean they'll be useful again!? O.o

    anyway as always I might be wrong on some things but this is what I can think of, off the top of my head.

    P.S. we need that therakiel spinny ult!! and that black fang leap!!!
    Post edited by poptartmaniac#8493 on
  • redcastle56redcastle56 Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Tried a run last night. To be fair there were only 4 of us (couldnt get a 5th to stay reliably). We couldn't get past VS. Took a while to get the hang of killing the sigils. But once we got that down it was a drag. The spawns hit hard, but a quick CC to slow them down enough to kill them before the could do much damage. I still don't know what the glowing shadow of VS is supposed to do.
    The occasionally telporting/becoming untargetable was a pain. As the tank i lost sight of her a few times and was just running in circles.
    But when she got to 1/3 and started with those circles. We couldn't survive long enough to figure out the mechanic. I did in one of them, and every time I was rezzed it could go boom again and kill me. So rezzing wasnt really an option.

    The cutscene skip interaction only showed up for the first person. The others couldn't interact with it.

    I do feel like TT will need to have two levels, like Telios Tower. Once easier one that you can use to finish the storyline, and a 2nd epic version for the real challenge. Otherwise people will be frustrated at not being able to finish the plotline without a hightly tuned character and experienced team.

    I also get the feeling that once someone writes a guide on how to run each section, it will be easier. Right now we are all struggling trying to figure out the mechanics. Once they are understood, it will be a different experience. If you want us to do a real playtest, explain how each mechanic is supposed to work, and then we can evaluate how well it works based on what it is supposed to do.

    oh one more thing. The Jet would not take me to VB even though I had previously done VBA on the toon I copied over. I had to have someone TP to VB.
  • poptartmaniac#8493 poptartmaniac Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    So we're doing a rerun and taking our time with the bosses to look at the mechanics. I'll edit this post as we go.

    Valerian Scarlet
    -We noticed the sigils are supposed to be one of the main mechanics of her fight as they hit hard when they explode. I'd suggest either spawning them closer so that they're actually a threat or increasing their range. Because most of the time they were not touching us. Also suggest increasing their damage so that dps actually have to prioritize it. or the damage taken from them based on how many left before they detonate.

    -We also noticed that valerian summons her mobs and uses them to channel energy unto herself and dps everyone. Main issue i found with this is she barely summons any mobs, she rarely does it, and the mobs are pushovers even a weak dps can pick them off easily. so it's not a challenge.

    -We waited 20 minutes to see if she gets enraged just to see how much more of a threat she would be but she never enraged.

    -When she gets super low she starts spamming blinding light which hurts a lot, I'd suggest making it faster to make it not so forgiving.

    Black Fang
    -Testing this fight for a while pretty much confirmed what I said earlier, the fight would be a whole lot more intense and challenging if the mobs appeared more often rather than just at the end.

    -We waited for his enrage, he was definitely better then. His regular damage should be what he does in enrage currently, and his enrage damage to be buffed. his single target damage also needs buffing.

    -His leap dive attack thing should be done more often and faster, and do more damage.

    -His chain maintain aoe should have a lot more range and damage.

    also bug: if your team wipes he does not do the things he does at certain stages of his HP. as in he doesn't do his dive attack anymore or summon dogs, this could be exploitable to skip the fight's difficulty.

    Baron Cimetiere
    -Pretty much the same, most entertaining fight for sure aside from vladic, but only noticeable mechanic to me was the hold and the block.

    -My only suggestions are the damage that the disable/hold does to nearby teammates be buffed, seemed to only be doing 2k very slowly. and a 6.5k when you break free. and that his single target damage be buffed

    -we waited for his enrage, he doesn't do extra damage except very rarely with voodoo bolt or the punch.

    -if you wipe after his enrage he floats. if you wipe at all he doesn't enrage again and he sometimes follow out of his room into the pool which is kinda exploitable to fight him outside of the "no rez" area (though we coudn't kill him then he got stuck at 0 health without dying)

    -noticed he does the animation for the "curse" power, where he stabs the voodoo doll, it doesn't do anything. no damage, no stun, no debuff, nada.

    Vladic Dracul & Therakiel
    Results were the same as the first few runs from my last post.

    though noticed therakiel's combo has a slam at the end, the device would be much better with that as it's final animation!

    and we need that block animation when he goes immune for like a celestial block o.o

    edit: you can move during his eyebeam stun

    edit: feel like therakiel needs the no rez thing too aside from the things mentioned in the posts above.

    Post edited by poptartmaniac#8493 on
  • infinitysaxisinfinitysaxis Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    (accidental double post due to edit bug)
    Post edited by infinitysaxis on
  • infinitysaxisinfinitysaxis Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Tried a Normal Difficulty run with a group that was decently geared with end game gear (a mix of GCR/SCR, cosmic, and OV gear), mods ranging from rank 7-9, and decent builds all around. Not the best of the best by any means, but we wanted to try a run with 'average' end game builds and an all around standard team (Tank, healer, 2 solid DPS, 1 DPS / tank).

    --VALARIAN: Once we figured out her mechanics it was a good fight over all. I don't think she felt particularly overly powerful or under powered as others have said above. If we happened to miss a block or a cue for some of her attacks, or didn't take the mobs out fast, we had to scramble a bit, but having a good tank and AoE DPS certainly did help. Overall felt fun to take on once we understood what to do. She seemed to be a pretty good starting fight to prepare you for what was to come later given this was on the easiest difficulty.

    --BLACK FANG: Similar to Valerian, once we figured out his attacks was a generally fun fight. I will agree that he wasn't that much of a solid challenge once we learned his rotations, but it was still a fun fight that left us feeling encouraged and ready for the rest of the lair.

    --BARON: Which brings us to Baron. We were unable to move passed this point in the temple. Baron himself wasn't all that punishing, but the zombies were overrunning us as soon as we entered the fight. When we started to finally thin them down Baron would disable someone or use his shield which allowed the zombies to immediately cluster right back on everyone and start chunking our health down again. They seemed to primarily focus on me (the healer) which forced me to block and self heal more than really was viable in a boss room where you can't rez anyone.

    The rest of the mechanics were perfectly fine, but the zombies sheer damage, health, and numbers tore us down time and time again even with a second tank trying to keep their attention (which was made more difficult by the zombies spawning in from all sides). I feel if the mobs were maybe more akin to the ones from Save the Earth (smaller groups, where you need to take them down fast to keep the spawn rates down) it would be better. Rather than just constant powerful spawns that stack up in significant number in a room where using AoEs might get you killed if you miss Baron tossing his block up for even a moment.

    To have two enjoyable and encouraging fights and then slam face first into this brick wall where the boss isn't even the problem, the mobs are, is a bit disheartening to say the least.

    (Sorry if this post is doubled, my original post vanished from what I can tell)
    Post edited by infinitysaxis on
  • starflairexstarflairex Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Good afternoon.

    I'd like to add my two cents here, and I hope the devs may find some value in it. This is from the perspective of a "casual" player who dabbles plenty in endgame content and gets by just fine. I ran TT as main tank/dps with a healer, ranged dps, melee dps, and off tank/dps. We were geared with distinguished, virtuous, and Justice at rank 7s aside from one dps running rank 9.

    Valerian Scarlet was a solid start to the temple. The mobs were tough! as expected. Her teleporting was a pleasant surprise and it was nice to move around instead of just standing there punching the thing. The mechanics weren't difficult to learn, but were pretty costly if you weren't paying attention. We knew moving forward that blocking, believe it or not, might actually prevent dying!

    Black Fang was a real treat. His new attacks are really cool and we were pleasantly surprised when we got him down to 2/3. He, again, has some tells that can be predicted after a couple of rounds, but still costly if you get complacent. The sturdier werewolves that spawned when he hit 1/3 were crazy, but still fun once we wrangled them up. Tanking him was fun.

    Baron we unfortunately were unable to get passed. Round one we learned pretty quick that the mobs were going to give us a run for our money. The don't appear to stop spawning! We kept a couple of dps on them, but once our healer was disabled, it was game over for all of us. Tanking at 126% damage resistance, I was able to hold down Baron and his near endless supply of zombies by just blocking, but it was a moot point with a healer that cannot self res. Even IF our dpsers could have used their res, the mobs would have been far too overwhelming to release block long enough for it to activate anyway. Baron's mechanics are pretty similar to how they were before, but boy does he hit harder. I slipped a cleave by accident while he was doing his voodoo block and died rather quickly. No room for error, but that's ok! The horde is just far too overwhelming after a certain point, and with unpredictable spawn points, there did not seem to be a practical way to keep them at bay AND stay on top of Baron. I wish I could say we at least knocked out his first bar of health, but after three attempts we called it. Baron is a reasonable boss, but the mobs are overwhelming. Their HP and dps are on par with the mobs we faced earlier, but the sheer number of them spawning is a problem. Very thematic, though! I think if the mobs had their defense and/or hp cut down, it would be a significantly more enjoyable fight while still being a challenge.

    This was a mostly fun attempt, and we enjoyed the shorter paths between bosses, but going from Fang to Baron was a huge leap in difficulty. While it makes enough sense to have more difficult content, I feel this in particular seems to cater more to folks who are to the nines in gear and mods, which I feel grossly cuts out the vast majority of players. I do not think there is much flexibility here for themed builds, which I feel, aside from the costume creator, is what attracts most new players in the first place.

    EDIT: Went back to Baron and confirmed the mobs are -not- endless. There's just a lot and they'll respawn about as fast as you can kill them.
    Post edited by starflairex on
  • poptartmaniac#8493 poptartmaniac Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    I did notice some of our healers had issues at that point like you guys, but once we got the tank to gather the mobs it was better Also personally what helped me when I played as healer was having a lot of heals running (Life essence, dependancy, illuminate, absorb heat) and an active defense can help.

    But yeah it was very very hard on that matter, but judging by how it's meant to be an endgame content I was okay with it as it encourages an OT.

    not saying your opinions or experiences are invalid though.
  • h3r0o0o0h3r0o0o0 Posts: 8 Arc User
    Valerian Scarlet and Black fang was very easy and there's no mechanics to work with. they need more buff to their attacks and maybe add some mechanics?
    I really liked that there's no res or self res at baron, it made that fight even more fun, beside the zombies swarming the healer and the insta kill with his shield.
    Vlad cage mechanics and bite are pretty good but his normal attacks doesn't do much damage

    the skip cutscene mark is hard to find and we couldn't use it, some people in the team couldn't interact with it even we remade the team.
  • oyo32oyo32 Posts: 134 Arc User
    It's great to finally see another lair getting the Epic treatment. For the first pass of this lair, it definitely needs more work, but it has a very strong foundation to work with. I'm excited to see what further revisions will improve. So far I have ran this lair as MT, OT, and a (ranged) DPS.

    Here are my thoughts, ramblings, feedback and so on. I marked bugs in red and suggestions in blue so the devs don't have to suffer through my whole post.

    On the official unofficial CO Discord, the devs stated that they are aiming for a difficulty level that is a step up from Teleios Ascendant. However, I think this lair is a long way from that goal. With the exception of Baron (and maybe Vlad we'll get to him) none of the bosses were particularly hard. My first blind run of this lair had us kinda brute forcing past some mechanics (whether we realized it or not) which should not be possible in Epic level content.

    For the most part, every boss's damage was on the weak side, to the point where I just started facetanking and never holding block even against telegraphed attacks and never suffered any severe consequences like my HP getting chunked or getting a deadly debuff (except Vlad don't worry we'll get to him). I think a good example is when my first run through this had everyone in our team except the MT and OT dying to Baron....and then us two basically just solo'd him down from there. Every boss enrages at around 10 minutes, which might be a bit too on the forgiving side.

    However, compared to Epic TA, Epic TT is doing a waaaaaaay better job of making the OT role interesting and engaging. I'm very happy to see Epic TT is bringing the OT role away from "grab the mobs and then AFK in the corner" design that plagues Epic TA.
    • Boss damage across the board needs a boost. Other posters have suggested making their enrage damage their regular damage, I would like to see this change too and see how it plays out.
    • Cut the Boss Enrage timer down by a couple minutes and boost its damage. For me, an enrage acts as a soft time limit. Personally, I think 10 minutes is a bit too forgiving and allows for a metric ton of mistakes. The current amount of damage it grants isn't really unmanageable for what's supposed to be a punishment for taking too long.
    • However, boss HP and damage resistance as is seems good!
    • The new cutscene skipping option sounds great, but unfortunately isn't working right now as it doesn't allow everyone in the instance to interact with it. Because of this, we weren't able to test if anything breaks with it enabled.
    • The cutscene skip's interact current placement is easily missed and doesn't make much thematic sense. It would probably be a better idea to make it a dialogue option or interact option for Caliburn at the start. Maybe something along the lines of "Tell Caliburn to make this short and sweet." Actually better yet, make the option say "Tell Caliburn to shut up." Yeah that sounds better instead.
    • The mob trash and puzzle sections I think are the perfect length as they are right now.
    • If possible, could the "Warp to..." options place the players directly in front or even in the chosen boss's room? For the purposes of testing, it was a bit annoying when we wanted to test a specific boss but had to go through the trash and puzzle section before it again.
    • There seems to be some weird rendering issues in the section between Baron and Vlad. Certain camera angles and distances will cause both players and enemies to stop rendering.

    Valerian Scarlet
    Unfortunately, I don't have much to say about this boss. In all of my runs of TT Epic she has basically been a free loot pinata. She definitely needs to be more aggressive with her mechanics and maybe even get some new ones?
    • Sometimes Val will just not do anything....at all until her HP reaches about 2/3rds. Sometimes she'll act sooner...sometimes later, but in all my runs of TT Epic at the start of the fight her AI will derp and not do anything.
    • Val doesn't seem to ever enrage.

    Black Fang
    I think Black Fang has the potential to be a great engaging fight for the tanks. His mechanic in which he specifically ignores the MT is neat, and I think opens up the door for some tank swapping shenanigans between the OT and MT. However past his adds and the threat mechanic, he feels like a sparse fight compared to the others. He is basically as much as a speed bump as Val is, which is a shame. I didn't really encounter any bugs with Fang in my runs of TT Epic, so these are all suggestions.
    • Speed up Fang's Grond jump attack. It's a neat attack definitely, but I think it needs to come out way faster.
    • Fang needs to be more aggressive with add spawns. For the most part the adds aren't a big problem in this fight. Which is unfortunate since his threat shenanigans essentially force the MT and OT to swap roles for a bit (once the DPS use their threat wipes....right....right?). However once this "swap" happens the MT...doesn't really have anything to do except go back to smacking Fang. Ideally once Fang begins to focus on the OT this is when the MT would go on add duty...but there are usually aren't enough adds around.
    • Fang feels like he could use another mechanic....speaking of which...........
    • Evil Suggestion: Give Fang a stacking defensive buff that scales with the amount of mobs in close proximity to him. Adds will not begin spawning in until the first "threat wipe" which happens around 2/3 HP. Wolves hunt in packs. I think something like this would significantly increase the difficulty of this encounter. This mechanic would give the MT and OT two distinctive roles, and then ask them to swap between them. The defensive buff prevents the add tank from just gathering the adds in the corner and AFKing, since eventually Fang will go after them which means the DPS will also have to manage both the adds and the boss. This doesn't begin happening until 2/3rd HP so that the MT and OT have the threat to make something like this work.

    Baron Cimitiere
    Without a doubt, Baron is the hardest fight in the lair as it stands. He definitely needs some QoL adjustments and bug fixes like everything else in the lair, but out of all the bosses he definitely feels the most ready to go to Live.
    • Baron appears to have an attack where he pulls out a voodoo doll and stabs it...it doesn't seem to do anything. No damage or debuffs.
    • If Baron is dragged close to the entrance to his boss room, his In / Out voodoo block mechanic can actually kill people on the other side of the lockout wall if they respawned and are waiting by the wall to get back in. Before this gets fixed feel free to use this to troll your friends who failed the mechanic earlier.
    • When Baron goes into big fun mode, his textbox that tells you whether his voodoo block is going to be in or out is going to be off screen unless you zoom far out. Maybe make this message a system message or make these voiced lines instead.

    Vladic Dracul
    Vlad feels like he's almost complete, but once again he needs QoL changes and bug fixes like usual. I will say though that currently Vlad feels like he is too punishing towards melee. Ranged players can easily sit outside of his combo and knockback range...at which point they basically get to completely ignore half of his mechanics. Epic TA Gravitar I think is an example of a good fight that disadvantages the melee, but can still give ranged players some trouble. Currently being ranged against Vlad is like getting a free pass. I do like how the OT still plays an important role in this fight despite the reduced add presence, since Vlad can cage the MT somewhere out of his LoS causing him to aggro the next highest threat target.
    • Vlad's lifelink buff seems to do nothing other than give him significant damage resistance. The tooltip says that he is sharing damage with those who are debuffed, but those players don't seem to take any damage.
    • The stake devices don't seem to end the lifelink debuff when used. According to the item description, it sounds when you use the stakes while you are cursed with the lifelink debuff it should dispel it, but using it does nothing to the debuff. This could just be me misunderstanding the mechanic.
    • Make the stake device permanent like the mirror device we get from Caliburn. To be fair, the whole stake mechanic doesn't seem to be properly working but I suspect it will be annoying to get additional stakes over the course of the fight and will break the flow of combat to pause and have to sit through a somewhat lengthy interact to get another one.
    • The cages in Vlad's arena are very hard to target and suffer from LoS bugs. They are annoying to target as ranged, and can be annoying to attack as melee.
    • After a wipe, Vlad and his arena do not properly reset. His AI will do nothing once attacked and will not die if his HP hits 0. Cages do not respawn either. If this happens the only way to fix it is to use /killme to get out of the boss room and reset the entire instance.
    • Improve the camera visibility when you are trapped in a cage. Mostly an annoyance, but once you are caged the camera likes to stay very close to your character, making it hard to tell where in the room you are or what is happening around you.

    The big bad host of the lair himself....I don't really have much to say about this fight. Though that is to be expected, since according to the patch notes his big central mechanic isn't working. Like everyone else in the lair, he needs to be hitting way harder than he currently is.
    • The cutscene that plays before the fight itself will repeat every time a new person enters the room. I'll admit this is the main reason why I didn't test this fight out more. If all 5 players enter separately the cutscene will play 5 times and ain't no one got time for that.
    • In the cutscene that plays before the fight itself, Therakiel is rotated the wrong way. He's facing and talking to the wall instead of the players and Caliburn. Caliburn is also floating off the ground.

    ....And that's all I have to say for now about this lair for now. Overall I think it's off to a good start and has a solid foundation to build up from here.

    Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
  • ispyrotimeispyrotime Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    I rarely post on forums,so sorry for long and unorganized post, but i heard that we were promised an end game content that is going to be more challenging and harder then TA, but from what i saw and experienced it is same if not esier then TA, just longer duo how long map TT is. We were capable of killing all 5 bosses in 2 min each and shutting down all their mechanics because fights are short. ( I will wait for Therakiel to get fixed before critized it and share opinion)
    As for reward, if you create boss design as i wrote below, you can make adjustable 6 set gear that is more stronger then Justice and other gear.
    I don't know can AI handle, but if not, at least try to make something similar as i wrote down. Current boss designs in TT are linear and easy to shut down with just 3 people, you don't need 5 people to clear TT as it now stands.

    Put difference between Normal ~ Elite for rewards, power timers, damage, hp, and most of all allow 10 resurrections in normal and 3 for elite for each person. Put it in debuff and once it hits zero , that player can't be resurrected in that boss fight anymore. (adjust as you like) - this achives and gives calibration for casuals who wont get good loot, but can experience and learn boss fights and lair, as for the end game players its to make it challanging and rewarding.

    Adjust damage, timers, add and remove effects however you like, just aim that all 5 players in team are needed to defeat boss.
    As she currently stands her combat design is a spellcaster which cast spells, debuffs and summons minions. But she doesn't achive nothing in chain or efficiently, its scattered and it's easy to deal with everything she has to throw. She isn't capable of creating domino effect as if a team fails to shut down her mechanics, she would wipe hole team. ( this is true for all 4 bosses but with their design)
    Enable Travel power for this fight.
    Boss room - make it as labyrinth with deep corners and open mid platform and smaller mid platforms across labyrinth, with stalagmites and stalactites.
    Let her use Skarn's bane from full hp and after 2/3hp she targets everyone in 100 feet.
    Let her apply Hexed debuff more offten on her regular attacks.
    Same for her cc thingy but after 2/3hp she gets it, make it cast faster, harder to break like (vikorins cc) and after 1/3hp make it she cast to extra 2 more targets or hole team. Or make it singular but she cast it very fast between her attacks and its on low cd. (she doesn't need to see player)
    When she uses teleport, (with boss room design), she can hide in spots and cast spells, aswell each time she initiates teleport she gives herself a shield for 15 sec worth of 100k hp. This forces players to actualy go and take out portals and sigils.
    When battle starts and if she can't see anyone, let her cast an ultimate, but stops when someone hits her thats not a dot, ( add a visible hud bar which we can see how much she casted-- if she casted 10 sec it stays casted 10 sec until she starts casting it again) , Ultimate needs lets say hole minute to charge but once she completes it , all 5 players die, wipe, reset. This adds a need for MT to always be near her and seek her as hole team to help find her 1st before sigils and portals.
    Add to her skill after 2/3 which allows her to create portals(lets say 3) in similar spots as sigils, which if not destroyed can summon way to many mobs. After 1/3 put chance of an ambush for additional mobs when a player starts hitting portal. This forces another player to come help or if he wants to solo he must use all his defensive skills to survive.
    When she summons her sigils (lets say 6x) hide them randomly in cornes or in open platforms, while laybrint has 12 corners + open platforms. If they explode, make it that hole team loses 1000 + 15% hp per sigil + those who survive now have a 30 sec debuff that reduces 15% heal and damage output per stack. Add to sigils that they do return damage like device spark shield. in can be clensed with calestial clensing. but buff that power
    1/3 hp- Last spell is her summoning beam from sky*, when she starts casting it, let her disable travels for period of time and multiple cast on every player for period of time.
    Remove her beam it's afwul and make her casting bit faster.

    Fang: JOhn Cena and Batista
    This fight is more of a brawler design.
    Disable travel powers for this fight. (you can dodge almost all of his attacks).
    Make him attack faster and chain attacks more often, knock> stun(same as viko, cant break stun until expires)> charge> bleed> truama> block breakers(also reduces 50% of what block ressistance gives)> dodge reduce> etc etc... make it so player regret for failing to fully block his effects.
    And add those effects to his normal rotation if he fails to initiate "combo".
    Make once they get you in combo, that they bypass hold and knock resits which player will have.
    At 2/3 hp intruduce Guy sweetland make short cutscene how he enters as WW smackdown champ. Now party has T W O bosses to fight who do same thing.
    At 1/3 hp of any, make it that now public enters fight occasionally.
    Just add combos to this fight, once they knock you (trigger) they initiate thoso combos, make several so its random or at least feels random. Knock you across room. Usa all might ultimates, pulls, knocks, stuns, etc etc.
    Add Cosmic Snare which they can apply, as there is spec that nulifies normal snare. >>to all bosses<<
    Disable travel powers for this fight.
    He has decent combat design, but still it lacks.
    Since travels will be disabled make his beam from that block deal 500+10% hp each sec and apply debuff which reduces Healing by 15% per stack.
    When someone dies Simon heals for 100k and summons a phantom from a corspe, if that players wants to resurrect, he needs to wait until his team deafeat phantom of himself with 300k hp. But for every phantom that is killed which he summoned from corspe, he loses 150k hp.
    After 2/3 hp let Simon use his cc thingy( 90 sec cd) but make it that he literly banishes a player and that player is forced to fight a phantom of himself 100k hp for one minute, if player fails to kill he dies. Many ways to approach this, either they are in their own dimesion , or they are visibale to other players but banished player is an enemy to other players in team while phantom is an ally.
    When he Enrages, buff his def, dmg, and improve his regular attacks.
    Same as for all bosses, give them better chance to apply debuffs.
    Disable travel powers for this fight.- you can destroy cages with ease, aswell pendulum ultimate can be casted to destroy cage when trapped.
    Boss room - make it more flat and open, but make hole floor in blood, but leave small pillars to stand on and middle platform. + make his room design as a torture room.
    Let him apply debuffs, he has fine kit just needs nasty debuffs,
    Give him power that connects to a player for period of itme and % of dmg Vlad takes, goes to that connected player and any healing that player recives portion goes to vlad. ( he prioritizes players that are fruther away but not caged.
    Players that are caged, once free,for 15 sec get debuff that reduces damage output, healing output, and healing recived reduced.

  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,029 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Okay, it was a few days since I ran this, but here's some additional thoughts now:
    She had mechanics. Which we ignored, other than having to chase her about occasionally. Needs stronger or different mechanics. One thing that fits with her original setup and would be a bit different would be to have her continually stack and refresh debuffs on her target (laser on current val does that but isn't powerful enough for current PCs), so eventually the tank needs to break contact (if she doesn't chase, just hide behind a wall) while someone else takes over.
    His special mechanic is kind of automatic; the OT needs to build threat and be ready to block, and that's about it. There should really be options that require everyone to keep on their toes, other than watching his tells which aren't as visible as TA (nothing has bubble tells).
    Baron Cimitiere
    His reflective block can block DoTs, which is a bit of an unavoidable death sentence if you get disabled right before he blocks. Solvable by not using any DoTs but a number of builds have a lot of trouble working without DoTs (and similar effects like ball lightning).
    Vladic Dracul
    He's punishing for melee, which is probably intended, but because of the map layout ranged builds can't target him (and healers can't target characters on the platform) unless they are capable of flight or stand up on the platform with melee.
  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,672 Arc User
    Baron's block should probably not reflect DoTs. Most builds usually have some sort of DoT.
    Lord Sans (Full Healer FF)/Axel Leonard (Crowd Controller/Off-Tank)
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  • mastercontrol7mastercontrol7 Posts: 180 Arc User
    this whole lair Revamp is not for casual, that for sure... this seems to be more for elitist, if not for hardcore players that are thirsty for the complexity of contents,

    My Review is base on the run done 5/24/2020


    if I'm recalling this right 4Gs what we got from Val This should be more as if this isn't Smash, would be nice to say 100Gs or 20Gs to 10Gs for each boss in the lair or for higher Gold and silver champion Recognition when beating the last boss, compare to Teleios Ascendant, or just not with same diminution reward cooldown as TA, which I think is already the case here, the high reward would be nice, otherwise, people going to do it for the costume and device and stop doing, Hint make the item drop rate less could help with this but then again these also are items that people could care less about...

    [having an optional choice for versions of lairs]

    option for the Classic and for the Epic Version of this lair because not everyone can really work well with the team, or like the idea their lair being with one error resets for that matter, also some of these bosses got a thing where I can see something like Troll/Griefing moments like not taking out the sigils or hitting baron while he blocks, etc, I can picture a lot of "/Team_Kick" being used, giving a party a somewhat hold still depending on role lacking while waiting for someone to join their team. however this is speaking in the idea of a though and might not even happen.

    [Valerian Scarlet]

    she should spawn more adds and rapidly
    and spawn few more sigils in random spots.
    and maybe no Travel powers, but I don't know about that since it could be a problem for using flight while fighting her.

    [Black Fang]
    His chain swing should Disable Travel power if this isn't the case already,
    And do More damage and make it ramp up for each time you get hit with it while not blocking.

    the adds that coming in at 1/3 HP make them come more often every 20-30 seconds at and starting at 50% mark of Black Fang HP.

    when he charges he should be able to repel you back Regardless if you blocking or not, and he will do headbutts to do stuns follow by his knock-up and attack more rapidly and faster.

    Also, the adds with the Gatling guns give them the 500-300FT range and make them more of a reason to be taken down, give them the ability to apply Armor-piercing Debuff also give Black fang ability to apply this debuff too and allow the Debuff to Be Stacked Max 3+ or more


    I recall the time I did suggest making a Survivor mode. it would be lovely to see the anti Self Resurrection debuff be used for something like that someday.

    Baron seems about the right bit of complexity for me almost too hard to handle, but the zombies he spawns over and over are a bit too much. I feel like they should be enforcers with low number but high hitting attacks so the healer would have to keep track of both the tank and off-tank, OR make the zombies spawn at a slower rate and have been easier to be taken down, Maybe, also as said before, seem like a good idea to baron VooDoo Doll block to be taken down with Break Through Adv, but Give baron the same ability Also make it where you must tank the Break Though Shot without Block, making this sort of A Quick Time Event QTE punish the tank for not tanking the break Though Shot by doing a Life steal and do extra damage over time, and stack extra damage buff on baron just like that alert boss [Ao], this would save or prevent the problem that been mentioned before. unless they want an oops because someone didn't stop Attacking during his block.

    And we haven't beat Baron so I can't say anymore, so on to Vlad.

    [Vladic Draycul]

    OH haven't beat Vlad either we all got Rekt and he went into Softlock

    this is the same Softlock problem within the Dr. destroyer Robot's Factory lab with The Fake Dr. Destroyer when a wipe Occurs at HP 1/3. BTW
    When your entire team gets wipe or reset this seems to trigger it.


    Got to say he way to easy for what this lair supposed to be, and I can even tank him with my Glass cannon, Suggestions: have him to fight like all of the previous bosses we fought and give Thera ability to summon bombs, start a lung in a style of Vicious Descent but if not Block would get the aggro-ed player knocked in the air slowly [low gravity effect] and downwards, with a following of combo attacks make the tank wish he had blocked sooner. follow by his spinny Blade AOE and be done two times. instead of at half HP, he would use this at Start After the lung and Combos then following by with the normal attacks but do more damage and rapidly than before, then he will go into his immunity stage and someone 6 hellmental at the same time in a circle around Thera these would come with 3 passive forms Ebon of Destruction. aura of radiant Protection. aura of Primal Majesty they will also have the power to do energy Drain and do LOTS of damage with Power Destruction [like the Annihilator Bot], he should summon adds just like Luther black how but at an even faster rate, also be able to Hold a target and attack unless the Target is, 1. on a mirror 2.target being hit by a mirror via Teammate 3. dead the mirrors spot should move everyone 15-10 seconds with one of the mirrors being still for only 30seconds-1mins have him to

    also put in an Instant death timer starting at HP 3/3 when fail to be taken down within a set time he would do a 700Ft ultimate that would Total everyone within the room. making a reset.

    and I think that's it at least for right now anyway. o3o

    I just hope and pray this lair is optional, not something replacing the original lair before it.

    also sorry for doing this bit late I been busy and forgot to post sooner, then this.

    Anyway, I hope this lair does the aim that you yall looking for.

  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 4,565 Arc User
    Just wondering if there could be a real difficulty slider for the lair? Something that provides great difficulty and rewards for those who want the mega challenge and something that is a bit less hardcore in both challenge and rewards for more casual players (which might work also as a way to introduce the mechanics in a more gradual way). If this is supposed to be the BIG revamp, this might be a desirable feature to implement now so that it can be used on other lair revamps. So maybe factor in a bit more development time to make this happen.

    Will there be a daily reward cap? Eventually the best players will figure out how to farm it.

    I wonder if there will eventually be a reward for running all the new lairs, like Vigilance works for alerts (got TA, Vikorin, Destroyer's Factory and now TT, so almost there in terms of a meaningful sequence; maybe need a 5th)?
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 2,685 Cryptic Developer
    Thanks for the feedback so far! there will be another lair focused build at the end of the week.

    Some clarifications:
    This lair will be replacing the old one. The old lair is riddled with bugs and exploits, and we'd prefer to not have that remain in game.

    As stated we will be releasing alert versions of the individual bosses which is more casual focused. the full lair is intended to be challenging, and will not feature any sort of way to diminish the difficulty.​​
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 4,565 Arc User
    That's sad. If you could figure out how to do have a real sliding difficulty/reward system that works for one lair you could apply it to all of them, then more people might run them and there'd be more justification for all the work involved in the revamps.
    As stated we will be releasing alert versions of the individual bosses which is more casual focused. the full lair is intended to be challenging, and will not feature any sort of way to diminish the difficulty.​​

    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • rainier6rainier6 Posts: 6 Arc User

    Put together an undersized crew mostly to break things and test basic appropriateness. We tested before the above patch

    Our version of “average characters” are/were once endgame capable but not all stars (tank can cosmic tank, but needs buffer/offtank), most are theme builds/AT players and not 1 stat stackers. We chose not to raid the debugger for stuff we don’t have (No one has R7 mods, DUC but most everyone has GCR/OV gear, no one lock boxes or has drifter stuff)

    So still overpowered compared to many players, and total scrubs compared those who solo comics.

    We tried Val, Baron (badly) and Fang. We really didn’t get anywhere with any bosses, mostly trying to get killed various ways rather than “win” as we had low man power.


    • Fang worked well,
    • Baron OK (hard to tell, adds ate us quickly withoug a full crew)
    • Val was a bit meh, we weren't sure if the sigils were working or if we just got lucky (On the other hand having here current smash/TT level beefed up would be problematic as she's quite powerful there in longer fights)

    Good Stuff

    • Nice Cut Scenes / Voices
    • Light Puzzle looked to be intact, major rooms intact. But we mostly teleported to the bosses and looked backwards, and ran around like morons in the maze
    • Different than TA, more fair currently, but still can be tough with mechanics, adds, and boss targeting non tanks.


    • We were able to glitch Barron’s cut scene (no dialog boxes, no voices) leaving baron unable to attack
    • Val once backed herself right onto a tiny rock outcrop and refused to go any place interesting.
    • Valerian also once just stood there for a minute not attacking (no glitch on cut scene)
    • No one saw anything about skipping cut scenes button, we didn’t even know it was a thing.
    • Thinking it is intended Barron was once reflecting damage (?dots?) back at our crew (something very fast, and no one was attacking). It seemed very fast/strong and a bit buggy. Odly no one had really used real attacks/dots yet (he blocked right away when we ran in all auto attacking)

    We think we could repeat the second bug, and perhaps the first


    We thought the damage was just a bit light, but near an appropriate amount and added up well (it does not needing doubling or enraging) considering:

    • Triple attack cycle of many bosses adds up quickly to a reasonable amount
    • Attacks have far less down time / separation than cosmics/TA
    • Smaller bosses with no large tells
    • Other mechanics we’d need to complete
    • Boss attacking non tanks (large aoes, sigils, Val/Fang both targeting our healer)
    • TT should just be “different” than TA/comics and be more engaging (not just a slap fight for the tank, tank should be involved with game)
    • Smaller attack down time requires tank to take a hit to build threat (we chose a tank without fast slap attacks)
    • Non rev mechanics (Baron)
    • Very tough adds all around

    Stuff we didn’t test a lot

    • Mechanics, we just poked the boss and tested the attack rotations and attack obvious mechanics
    • Ranged vs Melee tank fairness (we toyed with Black fang for a bit to see if we could cheese it via ranged tanking + movement)
    • If we could dps it down before enrage reliably, or do any math if we could. It would take us a good while though

    Moot point, but we thought the old layer should be left, with old rewards as well
    Or current bosses put in new layer. Too few players play TA, new zone is abandoned, and Eldy just became a fight became players.
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