test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
«1

Comments

  • colonelwingcolonelwing Posts: 297 Arc User
    Let's see. 0 attack powers and 18k damage that cannot be countered, seems pretty balanced to me... NOT!
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Posts: 297 Arc User
    A knock to that always knocks when the target has no knock resistance stacks (lasso) is also perfectly balanced.
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 582 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    For me, the real issue about Shadow Strike is that its base damage scales with nothing.
    16k base damage for free while it's not even a T4 power.

    I believe there should be some sort of scaling. Maybe an internal scaling like a stackable buff? "Escalating Shadow" : the longer you stay stealthed, the more damage you'll deal with Shadow Strike. While right now the way it's designed, Shadow Strike is a fast and easy 1shot for cheap (just go Reco SS and laugh at Shadow Strike energy cost).
  • bigshad24bigshad24 Posts: 24 Arc User
    I think they should reduce the damage it deals against players by 25-50%.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    Shadow strike would still work for its intended purpose if it was 3s charge time interrupted by damage (like sniper rifle), but would become quite marginal for in-combat uses.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User
    By making it scale with something like suggested, stealth would require a mechanical adjustment...or you'd just end up back where you started with perception debuffs being meta again and people trying to get the drop on each other constantly, so no actual PvP happens.

    Maybe it just needs an adjustment vs players and above (e.g. Shadow Strike now deals HP% damage and cannot remove more than 60% of the max HP NPC's ranked higher than: Master Villain (this is Other Champions (players), Super Villains, Legendary & Cosmic entities) )
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 582 Arc User
    (...) no actual PvP happens.
    (...)
    There's actual pvp happening with the way Shadow Strike works right now?
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User
    (...) no actual PvP happens.
    (...)
    There's actual pvp happening with the way Shadow Strike works right now?

    Apparently?

    You PvP, you tell me.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    (...) no actual PvP happens.
    (...)
    There's actual pvp happening with the way Shadow Strike works right now?
    Sure. I'm seeing PvP happening in the video you posted. You might not like the PvP, but that doesn't make it not PvP.
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 582 Arc User
    (...) no actual PvP happens.
    (...)
    There's actual pvp happening with the way Shadow Strike works right now?
    Sure. I'm seeing PvP happening in the video you posted. You might not like the PvP, but that doesn't make it not PvP.
    I'm confused. You're quoting me to answer to @bigshad24 video.
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 582 Arc User
    (...) no actual PvP happens.
    (...)
    There's actual pvp happening with the way Shadow Strike works right now?

    Apparently?

    You PvP, you tell me.

    Your argument, your answer.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User
    > @holloweaver said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > Your argument, your answer.

    Okay, well since you are unable to answer the question. I'll do what I can.

    Yes, there are PvP fights where Shadow Strike isnt used that still happen. I'm sure you wouldn't classify what you saw in the video from the OP as "PvE" would you?

    My suggestion actually linked to what you said about Shadow strike scaling.
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 582 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    > @holloweaver said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > Your argument, your answer.

    Okay, well since you are unable to answer the question. I'll do what I can.

    Yes, there are PvP fights where Shadow Strike isnt used that still happen. I'm sure you wouldn't classify what you saw in the video from the OP as "PvE" would you?

    My suggestion actually linked to what you said about Shadow strike scaling.

    Chronologically, I'm the one who asked a question that you've been unable to answer. It would help to put an end to all these amusing confusions if things were kept at their right place, right authors and right time too. If you can do that?

    So now that we're trying to set everything back accurately, everyone can read and confirm that this argument had been introduced by yourself, see here : "or you'd just end up back where you started with perception debuffs being meta again (...), so no actual PvP happens."
    As well as everyone can read and confirm that I'm the one who asked the question, see here : "There's actual pvp happening with the way Shadow Strike works right now?"
    Then we can finally get back to the original topic : is Shadow Strike balanced?

    As I've mentioned, my concern isn't so much about the damage output from Shadow Strike but that it has not scaling, not based on any ramping buff. Insta-high base damages which is atypical and I was suggesting to get its damage output aligned to other high damage powers such as some ultimate/T4 that are scaling with stacks of Enrage, Focus, Negative Ions, etc...
    To illustrate what I've in mind and applied to Shadow Strike, I created a hypothetical stacking buff and named it "Escalating Shadow". Simply as an example to show what I was suggesting about.

    Here, I would like to remind the readers that to be linked is not equal to be identical. Stealth and Shadow Strike are linked but there are not identical. Perception mods provide 0 damage debuff vs Shadow Strike. I could also say that the most logical counter to Stealth should be Perception and not 25k hp+250% damage reduction but nevermind, let's go back to the topic instead.

    I agree that nerf is usually the standard panacea to fix anything that looks broken and it's usually efficient enough. However I don't believe it should be the 1st option but rather the final option and while this post is mostly aimed as an answer toward you, I do know you're not the one who proposed a nerf. Here, I'm just curious to hear your opinion on this point if you've any?

    Edit : with all this, I forgot to answer your question. lol
    (...) I'm sure you wouldn't classify what you saw in the video from the OP as "PvE" would you? (...)
    No, it's actually a very typical pvp fight. Jump, cc and burst down your opponent.
  • bigshad24bigshad24 Posts: 24 Arc User
    By making it scale with something like suggested, stealth would require a mechanical adjustment...or you'd just end up back where you started with perception debuffs being meta again and people trying to get the drop on each other constantly, so no actual PvP happens.

    Maybe it just needs an adjustment vs players and above (e.g. Shadow Strike now deals HP% damage and cannot remove more than 60% of the max HP NPC's ranked higher than: Master Villain (this is Other Champions (players), Super Villains, Legendary & Cosmic entities) )

    Yeah, thats exactly what I think, reduce the damage it deals against players, and only players, by like 25-50%
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    bigshad24 wrote: »
    Yeah, thats exactly what I think, reduce the damage it deals against players, and only players, by like 25-50%
    That's making the assumption it isn't unbalanced in PvE.
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Posts: 297 Arc User
    A good start would be, to actually make shadow strike a power you have to spend 1 power point and 4 advantage points on. Currently it doesn't cost anything and allows overly tanky builds that shouldn't be able to deal such high dmg to begin with. Yes, that is also highly overpowered in pve, since you have a high damage power that doesn't affect your build, tacked on what you already have.

    The devs let is slip for far too long and the people have had enough of it.
  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    Shadow Strike will most likely be turned into a separate power, probably an ultimate.

    No way devs will allow a passive that gives an extra power. But I'm surprised they haven't done anything yet. Maybe they actually love it. :P
    mfZ37eB.png
    __________________________________________________________________
    Alts:
    Lord Sans (Full Healer FF)/Axel Leonard (Crowd Controller/Off-Tank)
    - - - - - -
    Feel free to visit my websites!^^:
    DeviantART|FurAffinity|
    Twitter
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Chronologically, I'm the one who asked a question that you've been unable to answer.

    False, I answered your question with "Apparently?" and asked you to provide some input, with "You PvP, you tell me". You failed to elaborate.
    So now that we're trying to set everything back accurately, everyone can read and confirm that this argument had been introduced by yourself, see here : "or you'd just end up back where you started with perception debuffs being meta again (...), so no actual PvP happens."
    As well as everyone can read and confirm that I'm the one who asked the question, see here : "There's actual pvp happening with the way Shadow Strike works right now?"

    This isn't an argument by any stretch of the imagination, it was a statement which you took exception to. I gave you an opportunity to explain yourself a bit better and you didn't take it unfortunately, but I see that now you've got that off your chest, you've driven it back to the topic which OP introduced, so grats for that.

    Then we can finally get back to the original topic : is Shadow Strike balanced? *snipped for relevancy* Here, I'm just curious to hear your opinion on this point if you've any?

    I've given my opinion already, so perhaps read back and see what I said. Or maybe I'll use this opportunity to elaborate a bit more:

    I think for what it is intended for in PvE, it is okay. Could it be better balanced? Sure, but an assassin's strike style power isn't one you should fail especially when relying on stealth to pull it off.

    If it didn't rely on stealth then yes, it would be wildly OP.

    For PvP, it is pretty broken if someone builds to pull it off and actually does, much like how people would build for Force Cascade, Defile and Ebon Ruin in the past.

    I've already put out a suggestion in this thread as to how that could be amended.
    Edit : with all this, I forgot to answer your question. lol
    (...) I'm sure you wouldn't classify what you saw in the video from the OP as "PvE" would you? (...)
    No, it's actually a very typical pvp fight. Jump, cc and burst down your opponent.

    Thank you for indirectly answering your own question regarding if it is actual PvP.

  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 582 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    (...)

    False,
    (...)
    Nope.
    I truely posted my question before your reply.
    (...) I answered your question with "Apparently?" (...)
    That's all the informations you'd to provide on your own argument? Well ok then.
    (...)
    (...) asked you to provide some input, with "You PvP, you tell me". You failed to elaborate.
    (...)
    Awww, you were asking me to elaborate your own argument?
    Sorry darling, I missed the hint that I was that important for you.
    (...)
    Then we can finally get back to the original topic : is Shadow Strike balanced? *snipped for relevancy* Here, I'm just curious to hear your opinion on this point if you've any?

    I've given my opinion already, so perhaps read back and see what I said. (...)
    It's fascinating how you can cut stuff and rebuild it to fit with what you want to read.
    More accurately, at this point I was not asking you if you've any suggestion to rework Shadow Strike but what is your opinion on nerfing a power as universal solution.
    Post edited by holloweaver on
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    (...)

    False,
    (...)
    Nope.
    I truely posted my question before your reply.

    Looks like you've focused on the wrong part of why I responded with what I did. I got the impression it was a strange question considering the OP posted an actual video of a PvP duel, so I didn't think my opinion on it mattered to you enough for it to be perceived as "an argument".

    I think you may be using the word wrongly here or mean something else?

    Awww, you were asking me to elaborate your own argument?
    Sorry darling, I missed the hint that I was that important for you.

    1wbgdEe.gif

    Yikes, reel it in. This is a conversation about a power in a video game...no need to do whatever you are doing here.

    Again, with the whole "argument"...This isn't an argument by any stretch of the imagination, it was a statement which you took exception to, as I said before but you may have missed.

    It's fascinating how you can cut stuff and rebuild it to fit with what you want to read.

    I know, it's a gift, which everyone has! Including you, as you've demonstrated! Rejoice!

    I was not asking you if you've any suggestion to rework Shadow Strike but what is your opinion on nerfing a power as universal solution.

    In some instances, nerfing is flat out required. When Mind Break was hitting 156k on Cosmic targets, it was clear it needed an adjustment.

    However in situations such as Shadow Strike, it is problematic in PvP because of the freeform system it exists in as well as other things such as a lack of scaling etc, which we've both touched upon here.

    As I've mentioned earlier, I think there is a better solution for Shadow Strike than a straight up nerf hammer strike. I'll put it here in case you missed it, and use this as an opportunity to elaborate

    Shadow Strike vs Henchmen, Villains, Enforcers, Master Villains - Remains the same.

    Shadow Strike vs Other Champions (Players) & Super Villains - May not remove more than 60% of HP with damage dealt.

    Shadow Strike vs Legendary & Cosmic entities - Remains the same. (largely because Shadow Strike doesn't trivialize those encounters by itself)

    Anyways, I don't have much else to say so I consider my part in this conversation over. Thanks all!
    Post edited by theravenforce on
  • mastercontrol7mastercontrol7 Posts: 181 Arc User
    Question: what would this gain by Shadow Strike being balanced?
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    Question: what would this gain by Shadow Strike being balanced?
    Balance? That's the usual reason for game balance changes.
  • mastercontrol7mastercontrol7 Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Question: what would this gain by Shadow Strike being balanced?
    Balance? That's the usual reason for game balance changes.

    yet we still have overpowered things mostly and Greatly within the Melee Powerset, and you don't see that contradiction?

    And is it really such a big problem?

    vlcsnap-2020-05-21-23h57m41s787.png

    Pay no mind to the number of AD's not anyone would need to have that many e_e

    Wouldn't it be Ez to just........Block? or just, Rank your block up? it's part of the game, is it not?
    vlcsnap-2020-05-22-00h38m54s000.png

    and i'm using Rank 1 Block... :/
    wouldn't be better to just make the blocks powers more powerful? <-[And No One had asked for that... but Me.]

    and even if you get hit with Shadow Strike and live wouldn't the next step is to something like Resurgence? OR you know like Heal device? you can get those for like, 1 Until each and can stack to 20, that could be Heal Over Time or Right out give a lot of Juicy HP and so ON! :D [Y'all scaring me here guys. :anguished: ]

    I'm pretty sure she Tested this, But I'm assuming this. 3_3 ran into these actual Though of These things post above.

    I can see why Kaiserin doesn't listen to people, Because WOW... with stuff like this who would want to listen to us? XD

    Make me feel Almost sorry for her. Wow. <:D

    But anyway I really don't care anymore, at least not that much as I had a year back of last year... No. But I wanted to post this to make fun of you guys sooo yeah Enjoy yall pointless bickering. *
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 582 Arc User
    (...)
    Again, with the whole "argument"...This isn't an argument by any stretch of the imagination, it was a statement which you took exception to, as I said before but you may have missed.
    (...)
    And I've valid reasons to have missed it.
    Here are some official definitions of argument and statement :
    - argument : a reason or reasons why you support or oppose an idea or suggestion, or the process of explaining these reasons.
    - statement : something that someone says or writes officially, or an action done to express an opinion.
    Now applied in context, we have your whole paragraph "By making it [...] so no actual pvp happens" which express your opinion on my suggestion and therefore it is your statement.
    However the point "so no actual pvp happens" as part of the reasons why you oppose to my suggestion is an argument.
    (...)
    Shadow Strike vs Henchmen, Villains, Enforcers, Master Villains - Remains the same.

    Shadow Strike vs Other Champions (Players) & Super Villains - May not remove more than 60% of HP with damage dealt.

    Shadow Strike vs Legendary & Cosmic entities - Remains the same. (largely because Shadow Strike doesn't trivialize those encounters by itself)
    (...)
    I don't recall there had ever been a power which deals less damages to players so I don't think it can happen.

    (...)
    Wouldn't it be Ez to just........Block? or just, Rank your block up? it's part of the game, is it not?
    (...)
    It doesn't seem you watched the video? The opponent was cc with a Lasso device and unable to block Shadow Strike.
  • mastercontrol7mastercontrol7 Posts: 181 Arc User
    (...)
    Again, with the whole "argument"...This isn't an argument by any stretch of the imagination, it was a statement which you took exception to, as I said before but you may have missed.
    (...)
    And I've valid reasons to have missed it.
    Here are some official definitions of argument and statement :
    - argument : a reason or reasons why you support or oppose an idea or suggestion, or the process of explaining these reasons.
    - statement : something that someone says or writes officially, or an action done to express an opinion.
    Now applied in context, we have your whole paragraph "By making it [...] so no actual pvp happens" which express your opinion on my suggestion and therefore it is your statement.
    However the point "so no actual pvp happens" as part of the reasons why you oppose to my suggestion is an argument.
    (...)
    Shadow Strike vs Henchmen, Villains, Enforcers, Master Villains - Remains the same.

    Shadow Strike vs Other Champions (Players) & Super Villains - May not remove more than 60% of HP with damage dealt.

    Shadow Strike vs Legendary & Cosmic entities - Remains the same. (largely because Shadow Strike doesn't trivialize those encounters by itself)
    (...)
    I don't recall there had ever been a power which deals less damages to players so I don't think it can happen.

    (...)
    Wouldn't it be Ez to just........Block? or just, Rank your block up? it's part of the game, is it not?
    (...)
    It doesn't seem you watched the video? The opponent was cc with a Lasso device and unable to block Shadow Strike.

    You can block CC, every attack got an warning Sound Fx do it not?
  • mastercontrol7mastercontrol7 Posts: 181 Arc User
    You can block CC, every attack got an warning Sound Fx do it not?

    what i mean every attack make an sound, and easy to tell from by ear.
  • mastercontrol7mastercontrol7 Posts: 181 Arc User
    any Crowd control can be blocked, unless that CC power is not blockable then that should be the Problem of the case then.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    Lasso is a knock, not a hold; it may require early blocking, many knock effects do, in which case it's likely impractical to reactively block.
  • mastercontrol7mastercontrol7 Posts: 181 Arc User
    Lasso is a knock, not a hold; it may require early blocking, many knock effects do, in which case it's likely impractical to reactively block.

    OH! you two talking about lasso not ........

    This part
    vlcsnap-2020-05-23-02h16m24s369.png

    Either you didn't look very clearly at the video or you only watched once, cause right off the Bat I saw the held and the pose anim...

    vlcsnap-2020-05-23-02h18m08s128.png

    the ironic thing is his whole video shows one thing... Shadow Strike is not broken At all.
    he applies all those Debuffs and only did 18k out of 21k... in melee passive. it does way less than that when using range and hybrid passive, So shadow Strike is in the Clear, FYI there are other attacks that can do way more damage than that, could have been done in the same matter on the video, but now I'm interested, one thing for sure there is stuff broken being used IE the Lasso as well the binding shot that was used also to add the Bola, Those 3 are pretty Broken IMO e_e I'm all voting for those being fix. otherwise, yall don't really have a Case Because LOL he has no other attacks but shadow strike+ultimate and he can only use SS 14second with AO to 36sec once then he will rely too much on CC powers that can be broken and messed with Hold/Knock resistance if with Active Defense, if not with help of Active Offense, it would only be good for Dueling and Maybe Cosmics CC but would be rekt or little to no-kill if in B.A.S.H or Team Deathmatch since it can't take on 2 people at once. since again it only has little to no attacks Beside shadow strike, and the ultimate...

    Soo Now let talk about the Powers Lasso, Chained Kunai Binding Shot as well Bola, these 5 powers have something in common, They have a Charge time that's not needed to be fully charged to apply a Hold [Binding shot] [Bola] or a Knock [Lasso] [Chained Kunai][Barbed\ vile Lariat]
    But the way these powers should work... I would say something like Mental Storm
    Based_on_Charge_time..JPG
    OR
    Sonic Arrow
    when_fully_charged..JPG

    making the powers effect work on activation, instead of on a percentage of charge


    whichever the Dev's think is Best ... Hopefully.

    Otherwise, I don't see much problem here, To me it just a game, one of its kind of course, But! it just a game, so there no reason for me to get mad or Upset about it or getting to the point where I want this changes because I think it "unfair" or "unbalance because it kills me" if anything the last thing I want is something to be nerfed and ruins for someone's theme and build, cause sadly that what this game is all about, "Themes and Builds", at least that what it should be...
  • bigshad24bigshad24 Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Lasso is a knock, not a hold; it may require early blocking, many knock effects do, in which case it's likely impractical to reactively block.

    OH! you two talking about lasso not ........

    This part
    vlcsnap-2020-05-23-02h16m24s369.png

    Either you didn't look very clearly at the video or you only watched once, cause right off the Bat I saw the held and the pose anim...

    vlcsnap-2020-05-23-02h18m08s128.png

    the ironic thing is his whole video shows one thing... Shadow Strike is not broken At all.
    he applies all those Debuffs and only did 18k out of 21k... in melee passive. it does way less than that when using range and hybrid passive, So shadow Strike is in the Clear, FYI there are other attacks that can do way more damage than that, could have been done in the same matter on the video, but now I'm interested, one thing for sure there is stuff broken being used IE the Lasso as well the binding shot that was used also to add the Bola, Those 3 are pretty Broken IMO e_e I'm all voting for those being fix. otherwise, yall don't really have a Case Because LOL he has no other attacks but shadow strike+ultimate and he can only use SS 14second with AO to 36sec once then he will rely too much on CC powers that can be broken and messed with Hold/Knock resistance if with Active Defense, if not with help of Active Offense, it would only be good for Dueling and Maybe Cosmics CC but would be rekt or little to no-kill if in B.A.S.H or Team Deathmatch since it can't take on 2 people at once. since again it only has little to no attacks Beside shadow strike, and the ultimate...

    Soo Now let talk about the Powers Lasso, Chained Kunai Binding Shot as well Bola, these 5 powers have something in common, They have a Charge time that's not needed to be fully charged to apply a Hold [Binding shot] [Bola] or a Knock [Lasso] [Chained Kunai][Barbed\ vile Lariat]
    But the way these powers should work... I would say something like Mental Storm
    Based_on_Charge_time..JPG
    OR
    Sonic Arrow
    when_fully_charged..JPG

    making the powers effect work on activation, instead of on a percentage of charge


    whichever the Dev's think is Best ... Hopefully.

    Otherwise, I don't see much problem here, To me it just a game, one of its kind of course, But! it just a game, so there no reason for me to get mad or Upset about it or getting to the point where I want this changes because I think it "unfair" or "unbalance because it kills me" if anything the last thing I want is something to be nerfed and ruins for someone's theme and build, cause sadly that what this game is all about, "Themes and Builds", at least that what it should be...

    Ok, but the whole point is that 1 single power shouldnt be able to be honed to that extent in the first place, and I shouldnt be able to 100% kill someone with a single damage power, no crits and no energy required, AND low charge time. Not to mention, it comes free with an entire passive.
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Posts: 297 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    snip

    Don't duel your friend and just stand there and hold block, while having 11000 health points that's not how pvp works, at all. The issue is, shadow strike currently cannot be blocked, takes no set up prior to charging it, doesn't cost 1 power and 4 advantage points and generally deals too much dmg. So please, quit trying to derail the thread.

    What you should do instead: duel Isaac@bigshad24, i am sure he's going to enlighten you.







    P.S. we are going to capture the footage of you blocking his shadow strike. Deal?

  • lunnylunnylunnylunny Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Shadow Strike is not 'okay' just because it does more damage if you're 'ranged rather than melee', if anything that makes it even more bork.

    You're talking about a power that does ultimate-level of damage regardless of resistance, (sure it can't crit, but still), is obtained by owning a passive that is good on its own (which also means you can get it at level 6), has less cooldown than an ultimate and has reasonably short charge time and energy cost.

    Now, on-subject with the topic, there's several dozens ways to abuse SS in PvP and overall it just makes the fight unfun. It shouldn't be 'who hits SS first wins', that's just frustrating gameplay.

    We (rightfully) nerfed defiance for having a "free EU" and not requiring R3 before, it's time to do something about NW & SS.


    Edit: Forgot to mention, a passive giving 'free skills' is very important. Part of what limits a build is the number of powers you can put in.

    Edit 2: Also forgot to mention that you don't even need to gear for it, as seen by him having 16k health and still able to dish out 18k health, while also using a CC toggle form. Meanwhile for the other powers, you need more setup, longer charge time and/or also to gear properly for it, and not just spam cons mods.

    Also also also, the Nanobot Swarm is not overkill at all. It allows him to overcome someone who'd break out of CC with an AD/AO.
    Post edited by lunnylunny on
  • mastercontrol7mastercontrol7 Posts: 181 Arc User
    bigshad24 wrote: »

    Ok, but the whole point is that 1 single power shouldnt be able to be honed to that extent in the first place, and I shouldnt be able to 100% kill someone with a single damage power, no crits and no energy required, AND low charge time. Not to mention, it comes free with an entire passive.

    so this post is made to get rid of shadow strike or mess it up so it won't kill you... not to fix or make things "balanced" within the game, okay, Thank you for the reply, I had a feeling that was the case. and yet you used it and don't know anything about it still... Wow.

    bigshad24- "and I shouldnt be able to 100% kill someone with a single damage power"

    But you didn't do that though on the video though, you used a total of over 7 Attacks, if not more then that, just to take that player out down, while playing the "Turtle Game" if that the case then constitution should be nerfed then... that wouldn't be a good thing wouldn't it?

    so no you didn't really just use a "single damage power" cheesed 2 powers
    trying to make 1 power look bad. *clap* *clap* Bravo.

    bigshad24- "AND low charge time."

    mean like lasso and binding shot? that's odd they shorter then Shadow Strike For what I saw.

    bigshad24- "Not to mention, it comes free with an entire passive."

    want tanks to use it too? as well as supports with CC? that's a balance to you? or you just don't want it to be used at all? <:)

    when people say or make it as It's bad that it comes free with a passive, then, I'm like:" so you saying they shouldn't be creative? " as of now they not being "creative" I Soo LMAO at anyone who wants them to be this.





    Don't duel your friend and just stand there and hold block, while having 11000 health points that's not how pvp works, at all.

    Wait people no longer running over 10k builds anymore like Isaac@bigshad24 with is 16k HP?!
    that's soo wonderful, I almost find it hard to believe...
    The issue is, shadow strike currently cannot be blocked

    *[INSERT IMAGE FROM ABOVE]*
    takes no set up prior to charging it

    *[INSERT IMAGE AND VIDEO FROM ABOVE]*
    doesn't cost 1 power and 4 advantage points

    Wouldn't do you any good if it did...
    and generally deals too much dmg.

    So you don't like damage... I see you don't come to cosmics right? wow.
    So please, quit trying to derail the thread.

    oh this Thread is already dead, sadly, I'm just here to drop the rose.

    this isn't about balance it about shadow strike, something yall too noob-ish to know how counter it seems, not to be rude here.

    What do you want? an attack to bite you but never make your bleed? Cmon man, get real, this game gave us an attack that punishes you for not block, like a lot of content within this game, you should check it out, it might do you some good.

    But don't worry, might nerf it, just they could make the change worst for you guys though. LULZ xD
    What you should do instead: duel Isaac@bigshad24

    you mean the guy that been chasing me and spamming me with Duel request?

    I get to him when I can and feel like it, he doesn't control me. <:)
    i am sure he's going to enlighten you.

    He enlightens me enough, now if only he can do this in bash and teams and win a little, NOW that would be a wonderful sight to see.





    P.S. we are going to capture the footage of you blocking his shadow strike. Deal?

    how about he fight me without the need of over 10k? feel like I shouldn't have to break my build just to PVP him... it would make it little faster of course otherwise these no profit in it... yall know that right?


    Don't worry I won't use shadow Strike on him. :)

    Also, this isn't really a Good PVP game I recommend you find one that fits your fancy, instead of trying to change it to only fit yourselves. there a lot of PVP games out there, get on those...
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 582 Arc User
    lunnylunny wrote: »
    Shadow Strike is not 'okay' just because it does more damage if you're 'ranged rather than melee', if anything that makes it even more bork.

    You're talking about a power that does ultimate-level of damage regardless of resistance, (sure it can't crit, but still), is obtained by owning a passive that is good on its own (which also means you can get it at level 6), has less cooldown than an ultimate and has reasonably short charge time and energy cost.

    Now, on-subject with the topic, there's several dozens ways to abuse SS in PvP and overall it just makes the fight unfun. It shouldn't be 'who hits SS first wins', that's just frustrating gameplay.

    We (rightfully) nerfed defiance for having a "free EU" and not requiring R3 before, it's time to do something about NW & SS.
    (...)

    Right, NW gives an attack power for free just like Defiance had an EU for free.
    I want back my energy return on Defiance or change the way to obtain Shadow Strike.
  • sannia1sannia1 Posts: 86 Arc User
    Well, PvE, okay so it helps you one-shot the trash single player bosses, saving you the 1 minute of fighting them. However, it's tied to a passive which has a base damage improvement that isn't as good as the other offense passives. Night Warrior makes up for it in DR penetration, but if you've got another source of DR penetration, you're likely nerfing your long term damage output against something like a cosmic.

    I'll admit I use it and love it. It's handy in the Qliphothic Warzone to Shadow Strike the most dangerous of a group of mobs. But put it this way, if I'm about to attack another group of mobs and my Shadow Strike is on cooldown, I usually just use other attacks rather than wait for it.

    If you're level 40, have a good build, and have equipped it properly - well if you're using charge attacks you're topping 10k damage every time you crit and you certainly are critting more often than once every 14 seconds.


    I don't PvP much, but....you realize Shadow Strike only works from stealth, right? If they take any damage, they can't use it. So, maybe use a targetless AoE? Heck, if you get a poison or bleed on them, they can't enter stealth until it wears off. I know there are tricks to keep stealth up if you're taking a *little* damage. But if you've got one 'anti stealth' power like Lead Tempest, you'll break their stealth.

    I personally see Shadow Strike as an easy way for a noob player to get a good damage spike, and it holds up well against the other big damage dealers. But it is *not* OP. There are plenty of other ways to get more damage output if you know what you are doing.


    As for Lasso: It's a knock. Don't compare a knock to a paralyze. Knocks and stuns are meant to be quick ways to break up whatever your enemy is doing. There are lots of powers that can knock or stun an opponent within half a second. Yes they are strong in PvP.

    Annoyingly, a PvP build is going to have plenty of knocks and stuns arrayed in a pre-planned combo that a general PvE build won't be able to beat. There isn't much you can do about that though.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    sannia1 wrote: »
    Well, PvE, okay so it helps you one-shot the trash single player bosses, saving you the 1 minute of fighting them. However, it's tied to a passive which has a base damage improvement that isn't as good as the other offense passives. Night Warrior makes up for it in DR penetration, but if you've got another source of DR penetration, you're likely nerfing your long term damage output against something like a cosmic.
    Not once you account for charge speed reduction and the fact that most cosmics have more than 25% damage resistance.
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Posts: 297 Arc User
    snip the bla bla

    Eh, Kanger? Just duel him, he's the creator of this thread. Show us how you block his shadow strike, we upload the video to youtube and post it here. It's simple, dude. You don't have to change your build, he can kill 20k hp tanks with it.


    Good luck and have fun!

  • mastercontrol7mastercontrol7 Posts: 181 Arc User
    lunnylunny wrote: »
    Shadow Strike is not 'okay' just because it does more damage if you're 'ranged rather than melee', if anything that makes it even more bork.

    That's False, Telling lies is a very bad thing.

    And nowhere near the case of that.
    lunnylunny wrote: »
    You're talking about a power that does ultimate-level of damage regardless of resistance, (sure it can't crit, but still), is obtained by owning a passive that is good on its own (which also means you can get it at level 6), has less cooldown than an ultimate and has reasonably short charge time and energy cost.

    Isn't block counted as resistance? sound like another False fact there.

    you Do know how often ultimate is being used in PVP? Right?

    do WAY less damage at level 6

       B  T  W
    lunnylunny wrote: »
    Now, on-subject with the topic, there's several dozens ways to abuse SS in PvP and overall it just makes the fight unfun. It shouldn't be 'who hits SS first wins', that's just frustrating gameplay.

    you should watch more PVP videos Because that often not the case

    there are cases like:

    who will get the headshot first, who gets knifed first, sniped first, or who get Blasted first Darn Rocket launcher spammers!

    these are common things within Any PVP, and that would also be frustration. if you're not frustrated, then someone is unless there no care one ether sides

    because you always going to wonder if you could have done better with you not thinking about stuff like this then it means you really don't care or too noobish to find a way to make it better or to come up with a counter.
    lunnylunny wrote: »
    We (rightfully) nerfed defiance for having a "free EU" and not requiring R3 before, it's time to do something about NW & SS.

    WOW! "rightfully" huh? alot of people [color=##800000]Hated[/color] that change, (rightfully) and only an few Defended it. it an reason why 2019 was the most worst year for Champions online Players, also an reason why we lost some people, and mostly within the cosmic hunter element.

    But that's no big deal they can be replaced right? just like everyone else here even me. :+1:

    lunnylunny wrote: »
    Edit: Forgot to mention, a passive giving 'free skills' is very important. Part of what limits a build is the number of powers you can put in.

    WOW, that immediate contradiction of its own right there, not like I need 3 extra powers or anything, or for a passive that does worst in defense compare to others, within the same power tree huh? lol

    so you have just the amount of power of a Typical Free AT right? Okay, Gotcha!
    lunnylunny wrote: »
    Edit 2: Also forgot to mention that you don't even need to gear for it, as seen by him having 16k health and still able to dish out 18k health, while also using a CC toggle form. Meanwhile for the other powers, you need more setup, longer charge time and/or also to gear properly for it, and not just spam cons mods.

    By that logic if the guy with 16k HP can use that then we shouldn't either?

    even though at worst it going to do by 16,928 with and Range Passive. drop even less due to damage resistance and drop even more if you don't have and Depleted Uranium Core, that hard to get, and give these guys a reason to play the tanking game without Block and prolong the inevitable, if not outlasting with said 16k HP, "Longer Charge time" a thing Isaac didn't even need to worry about since he have binding shot, and lasso, if night warrior is soo OP wouldn't he have to do is use it by itself with only sneak to assist it? and be done with it? with the need for such broken combos that you seem to accept as okay? because the shadow strike is the evilest of the 3 powers?

    WOW, that gotta be the most hypocritical thing I ever read...



    Also also also, the Nanobot Swarm is not overkill at all. It allows him to overcome someone who'd break out of CC with an AD/AO.

    when you making a video about 1 power and but show a video with over the power trays of powers being used that would be an Overkill, if you have done PvP many times as anyone else you will know this.

    AO+ AD is a thing that can be done, btw.

    "dozens ways to abuse SS in PvP and overall it just makes the fight unfun."

    Funny if not ironic, their people say the same thing on CO about Qliphothic Warzone, Dr. Destroyer robot lab lair, Vikorin, Bronze King lair, Cosmics beside the Mega Destroids OF Course, and maybe soon therakial, being the most of "unfun" BUT get told they complain too much or give them the " then don't do it " treatment, I feel like I should do the same, but I don't that's right, but this isn't really a PVP game, at least not a good one with balance, and nerfing shadow strike is not going fix that, At all.....

    Let me do the High QI solving yall problem, on HOW NOT to nerf Shadow Strike,

    1. remove it from the passive, which would make it be used by anyone Tank. healer, and Con Stackers, Still

    2. make the Passive an ultimate, then back to square one?

    3. Make Shadow Strike do less damage in PVP, that Could, be hard work for the devs since they going have to make a level tag that not a master villain in comparisons, and if at Damage drop 50% it would outright kill you if you are below 30-50% HP
    with melee passive

    <But at reduct to 25% Damage for every 36 seconds +/- it wouldn't be worth using, wouldn't it?> and that seems fair to yall? oh my talking about balance. LOL

    4. make it do less damage and make it Crit, RNG almost it would outright kill you if you are below 30-50% HP, if not send you down there with melee passive of course.

    5.the longer you stay stealth, the more damage you'll deal with Shadow Strike. Problem: how that works with PVPers running around with MSA, Molecular Self-Assembly that scale with Intelligence, that reveals and shows you at any time while regardless of Dexterity, and range, and mods perception are a thing.

    <Maybe we have Molecular Self-Assembly scale with Ego instead and recovery at lesser degree> that would be a good idea wouldn't it?

    6. Remove Shadow Strike, Yes Because Yall too weak to handle it. or you don't want someone to do more work then yall selves, insecure much? :/

    This is a power that can be dodged, Blocked and can even be Tanked, yall still want it to be nerfed, LMAO

    what has this power done to make you soo scare of it? Killed you? could have taken that as a fall. ROFLMAO

    Oh, spaghetti code is thing BTW, Would be Super funny if they end up buff the shadow strike and night warrior instead of nerfing it, I mean with you guys and your ideas, ANYTHING Can happen really! LOL WOW, This is soo sad...


    sannia1 wrote: »

    As for Lasso: It's a knock. Don't compare a knock to a paralyze. Knocks and stuns are meant to be quick ways to break up whatever your enemy is doing. There are lots of powers that can knock or stun an opponent within half a second. Yes they are strong in PvP.

    as much I would want to agree with you on the lasso, and binding shot <-[that is a Paralyzer BTW] but I can't if that was the case then it should be a Click instead of Charge then, even with lasso being as that don't even make the attack look weird and broken, but I get what you saying but LOL Lasso don't look good being used like and, Binding shot already got NTTG in it and it also a paralyzer that do DOT, but whatever. it just proves my point what I said Panta in my first reply

    Not once you account for charge speed reduction and the fact that most cosmics have more than 25% damage resistance.

    the charge speed is 0.6 seconds off of powers... is that A lot to you?! Good Grief!
    and no one cares about 25% Cosmic Damage Resistance... because not like anyone makes that common knowledge or anything. "did you know that most Cosmic got more than 25% Damage Resistance?" Blah! Like no one knows or cares about that! \o/ *flip tables* (offtopic)-[this is why the cosmics are they as they are now...]
  • mastercontrol7mastercontrol7 Posts: 181 Arc User
    the charge speed is 0.6 seconds off of powers... is that A lot to you?! Good Grief!

    Correction: it take only 0.18 seconds off...
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 582 Arc User
    (...)
    5.the longer you stay stealth, the more damage you'll deal with Shadow Strike. Problem: how that works with PVPers running around with MSA, Molecular Self-Assembly that scale with Intelligence, that reveals and shows you at any time while regardless of Dexterity, and range, and mods perception are a thing.
    (...)
    Personally I don't see a problem that perception should be the logical counter to Stealth.
    While my suggestion is based on a sort of stacking form, it may or may not scale dependantly or independantly of stealth time.

    For all the other points, there are interesting and certainly closer to ingame datas and pvp practices. But I hope you can see that Shadow Strike is designed in an abusive way hence some builds can abuse it.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

    Not once you account for charge speed reduction and the fact that most cosmics have more than 25% damage resistance.

    the charge speed is 0.6 seconds off of powers... is that A lot to you?! Good Grief!
    It doesn't take a lot to matter. In actual PvE play (where having 8 form stacks of 20-25% is routine), the difference in base damage between Night Warrior and Way of the Warrior is under 10%, and thus in real play, just the defense penetration is usually about as valuable as the extra damage on WotW. The charge speed reduction is another 5-10% real increase in dps, and thus puts NW comfortably ahead if you're dealing with charged attacks where defense penetration actually functions (it doesn't work on DoTs and ruptures).
  • mastercontrol7mastercontrol7 Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited May 2020



    Not once you account for charge speed reduction and the fact that most cosmics have more than 25% damage resistance.



    the charge speed is 0.6 seconds off of powers... is that A lot to you?! Good Grief!

    It doesn't take a lot to matter. In actual PvE play (where having 8 form stacks of 20-25% is routine), the difference in base damage between Night Warrior and Way of the Warrior is under 10%, and thus in real play, just the defense penetration is usually about as valuable as the extra damage on WotW. The charge speed reduction is another 5-10% real increase in dps, and thus puts NW comfortably ahead if you're dealing with charged attacks where defense penetration actually functions (it doesn't work on DoTs and ruptures).



    well, it shouldn't matter at all... since PVE-Wise this has a game with low player Pop Count and, people do like to have time to only For themselves with a mix to only wanting to play with friends only, etc, IF You also trying making a point that night warrior is out doing Way of the Warrior, it has every right to do so... this is what you Could call a Sword or shield moment you could either pick and powerful Sword or pick a powerful shield.



    Night warrior is the Duel Sword since it has the Damage.



    Night Warrior got 10% Damage Resistance Penetration



    Night Warrior got Faster Charge time



    Higher Overall damage then Way of the warrior.



    Have 2 powers that can work together
    , for Extra Damage

    Way of the warrior is like Shield with Sword since it has the Damage and Defense.



    Way of the warrior can get more Dodge Chance then night warrior.



    Way of the warrior can get more Avoidance then Night warrior.



    Way of the warrior Gives energy to you when your target Dodge your attacks.



    Enhance Damage when it is Bleed and Melee by high Values.



    Night warrior give cant enhance it's Dodge, Avoidance by Via Super Stats



    but Way of the warrior Can, So if the case Way of the warrior is to lose to NW, then that okay since Night warrior is more damage then defense, almost like targeting computer, in a way when you think about it...


    Edit: Correction on info giving by colonelwing.
    Post edited by mastercontrol7 on
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Posts: 297 Arc User
    snip

    Eh, Kanger? Night Warrior is supposed to be a martial arts passive, mainly for the fighting claws framework. However, when it was first introduced, the implementation was a little bit "sub-optimal" and the fact that it increases all damage types by the same amount.. could very well be considered a bug that's never been fixed.

    Way of the warrior does definitely not give energy when you dodge, but when your enemy dodges and that feature recently got nerfed into the ground anyway and doesn't rly give all that much energy anymore.

    The post i wrote yesterday mysteriously disappeared, despite not breaking any of the forum rules.. So i'll ask once again: Show us how you block shadow strike. We really would love to see it and i am quite sure, the developers would also like to get a glimpse of it.


    We are waiting on you, bro.

  • mastercontrol7mastercontrol7 Posts: 181 Arc User
    snip

    Eh, Kanger? Night Warrior is supposed to be a martial arts passive, mainly for the fighting claws framework. However, when it was first introduced, the implementation was a little bit "sub-optimal" and the fact that it increases all damage types by the same amount.. could very well be considered a bug that's never been fixed.

    Proof and more info on that, Please?

    incase you haven't noticed, this game Has this thing Called "Freeform" so it could be used for any powerset, like Brick, heavy weapons, as well, Bestial, that is melee BTW and can be even used for as a healer too... FYI

    You grasping for Straws there, just soo you know.
    Way of the warrior does definitely not give energy when you dodge, but when your enemy dodges and that feature recently got nerfed into the ground anyway and doesn't rly give all that much energy anymore.

    Thank you for the correction... good to see you can be right about something for once.

    well frankly it enough since you will have An EU anyway, it just acts as a backup when someone dodges, to me, To Me, that makes no sense to me but whatever...
    The post i wrote yesterday mysteriously disappeared, despite not breaking any of the forum rules.. So i'll ask once again: Show us how you block shadow strike. We really would love to see it and i am quite sure, the developers would also like to get a glimpse of it.


    We are waiting on you, bro.

    yeah, we already fought but he had a tank passive. soo lol.


  • bigshad24bigshad24 Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    snip

    Eh, Kanger? Night Warrior is supposed to be a martial arts passive, mainly for the fighting claws framework. However, when it was first introduced, the implementation was a little bit "sub-optimal" and the fact that it increases all damage types by the same amount.. could very well be considered a bug that's never been fixed.

    Proof and more info on that, Please?

    incase you haven't noticed, this game Has this thing Called "Freeform" so it could be used for any powerset, like Brick, heavy weapons, as well, Bestial, that is melee BTW and can be even used for as a healer too... FYI

    You grasping for Straws there, just soo you know.
    Way of the warrior does definitely not give energy when you dodge, but when your enemy dodges and that feature recently got nerfed into the ground anyway and doesn't rly give all that much energy anymore.

    Thank you for the correction... good to see you can be right about something for once.

    well frankly it enough since you will have An EU anyway, it just acts as a backup when someone dodges, to me, To Me, that makes no sense to me but whatever...
    The post i wrote yesterday mysteriously disappeared, despite not breaking any of the forum rules.. So i'll ask once again: Show us how you block shadow strike. We really would love to see it and i am quite sure, the developers would also like to get a glimpse of it.


    We are waiting on you, bro.

    yeah, we already fought but he had a tank passive. soo lol.


    Wtf are you on about talking about kanger, we haven't fought since christmas event. Btw, none of your arguments give good reason as to why ss SHOULDN'T be nerfed. And you won't even duel my ss so... w/e
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Posts: 297 Arc User
    yeah, we already fought but he had a tank passive. soo lol.
    bigshad24 wrote: »
    What are you on about talking about kanger, we haven't fought since christmas event.

    Kanger? Please quit trying to derail the thread, if you have nothing constructive to contribute.
  • mastercontrol7mastercontrol7 Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    bigshad24 wrote: »
    snip

    Eh, Kanger? Night Warrior is supposed to be a martial arts passive, mainly for the fighting claws framework. However, when it was first introduced, the implementation was a little bit "sub-optimal" and the fact that it increases all damage types by the same amount.. could very well be considered a bug that's never been fixed.

    Proof and more info on that, Please?

    incase you haven't noticed, this game Has this thing Called "Freeform" so it could be used for any powerset, like Brick, heavy weapons, as well, Bestial, that is melee BTW and can be even used for as a healer too... FYI

    You grasping for Straws there, just soo you know.
    Way of the warrior does definitely not give energy when you dodge, but when your enemy dodges and that feature recently got nerfed into the ground anyway and doesn't rly give all that much energy anymore.

    Thank you for the correction... good to see you can be right about something for once.

    well frankly it enough since you will have An EU anyway, it just acts as a backup when someone dodges, to me, To Me, that makes no sense to me but whatever...
    The post i wrote yesterday mysteriously disappeared, despite not breaking any of the forum rules.. So i'll ask once again: Show us how you block shadow strike. We really would love to see it and i am quite sure, the developers would also like to get a glimpse of it.


    We are waiting on you, bro.

    yeah, we already fought but he had a tank passive. soo lol.


    Wtf are you on about talking about kanger, we haven't fought since christmas event.



    https://youtu.be/lDmKod5RmA0

    WOW, That looks like a lie... You lying now? LOL
    like why would you lie about that is beyond me, Really you shouldn't have replied, at all really, but whatever... this only proves you want Shadow Strike nerfed for yourself, and only that sadly...




    bigshad24 wrote: »
    Btw, none of your arguments give good reason as to why ss SHOULDN'T be nerfed. And you won't even duel my ss so... w/e

    You making excuse for yourself, and

    20200601023027_1.jpg

    20200601023041_1.jpg

    20200601023239_1.jpg

    20200601023533_1.jpg

    20200601023620_1.jpg




    You guys don't understand what yall asking... At all!

    think about it... what if it not just going to be one Power being nerfed?

    like we know Stealth doesn't Work in PVP... like At all, so that would mean.

    something would have to fall... or something will have to give? Stealth mods seem like a possibility, or they nerf MSA, I mean it does give energy when not even in combat, and scale with the one thing that Goes against Night warrior, the LAST Thing anyone cares for right now is PVP content within CO... because there is no reason behind it unless it fun, But the last time I check Having over 12k of HP doesn't really seem fun unless you are a tank of course, but it amazes me, on how much you will go for to want this One power to be nerfed... And you kinda the only one here...

    You know why?: because WE don't want The Devs to Mess with powers anymore unless well they buffing it, then again not even that I guess... xS

    We Are happier if they just make New Powers, something yall not asking for here BTW.

    they messed with a lot of stuff within this game during the past years to the point it could be the reason why this game is in the shape it is now, but you DON'T see that though.

    like who knows for PVE, For we might know we could just be messing it up if this nerf was to hit, Cosmics, lot of endgame Content, also Revamp Content that again could be made to be complex as Heck to enforce Teamwork, when there is no such thing as Real Teamwork, like LOL look at how Teleiosaurus is being done these days, Guess you DON'T see that either!

    and the devs don't seem like they Don't know what are they doing ether, because how would they? LOL like you guys Here, Wow, Good job guys. I'm sure yall thought this out completely Through an out. :))

    yall not know to the saying be careful what you Wish for huh?

    You Bigshaq24 send me a duel request Right after I beat Q-Chicken, and I block your shadow Strike and your Cheesy hold, shouldn't have to do it again, over and over again e_e, but whatever, You lucky I didn't have a Video of you chase me around like some Crazed Ex-Girlfriend.

    However, Thing is You are a sore loser, and A liar, selfish because this is only for you, and only for you, next thing you going to complain about teleport then, some other power, then some other power, YOU Going to have a lot of things to complain about, Trust on that, Next time you duel me Again, I will Rekt the Crap out of you... The kid's glove will be off. ^^
    Post edited by mastercontrol7 on
  • mastercontrol7mastercontrol7 Posts: 181 Arc User
    Call me an lie again!
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Posts: 297 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    delete this

    Post edited by colonelwing on
This discussion has been closed.