"How to" make your FF Hero

sgtken60 · April 2020

I hope this is okay to post this here, and I am still searching myself, but I was wondering if anyone has links they would be willing to share on how to build Free-forms?
I have found on on the NPW Forum here: https://champions-online.proboards.com/thread/2919/build-freeform-character-kenpo

But it is from 2013, so I am not sure how up to date it is?

See I am working on my new FF; Professor Joan Jett - a Gadgeteer, and instead of just asking for a build, I am trying to learn as I go, trying out the skills/powers/buffs/etc. as I go, replacing ones that don't fit my play-style, or that I don't like.

Here is Bluhman's :https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=154774909

Thanks to flowcyto for letting me know about this one.

flowcyto · April 2020

I think Bluhman had one, and Kamo's sticky here for end-game dps builds also covers some basics, though there's not much else else that's relatively recent, afaik. I'd say that generally starting w/ an AT build that you like and modifying it into FF isn't a bad start, though. You can then analyze the build and see how all the diff powers and stats jive together.

Otherwise, here's some general advice for FF building (for a dps, as a simpler baseline):
(and listed in no particular order)
- Get a form/toggle that can easily proc w/ most of your planned attacks, and make sure that you have it's main scaling stat SS'd (it doesn't have to be the PSS). You usually don't want to rank up the toggle/form (nor the energy builder attack that you start with).
- Get a (offense-oriented) slotted passive that boosts all_most of your attack dmg types, and get it to R3. If you're going for the Hybrid-dps approach, then instead get any non-Defiance defensive passive (Invuln or Regen can be good), and get it to R3.
- Get an Energy Unlock that you can also easily proc, ala the toggle/form (you don't need to SS its main scaling stat, though it can def help for some builds).
- Have at least one solid single-target attack, and rank it up.
- Have at least one solid AoE attack, and rank it up.
- Get some self-heals (Conviction is the easy one), and probably an Active Defense (Resurgence for a large burst heal/regen cd, or Indestructible for a decent mitigation cd on a dps).
- Usually you also want to get a Block enhancer, and to rank it up (esp if doing harder content).
- Get specs that match your main goals for the build (for dps, the generalist picks are Wardicator for melee and Guardicator for Ranged, w/ Brawler or Avenger also being potentially good options), as well as talents that boost your 3 SS's (and maybe some extra Rec, for better starter energy).
- For dps, you also typically want to get a debuffing power (or two) that will boost your main attacks' dmg (if the main AoE and single-target attacks are of different dmg types, then you should prob favor debuffing for the single-target attack).
- Use the role that most matches your dmg type (Melee or Ranged dps, or the Hybrid role for a Hybrid-dps w/ a defensive passive).
- Aside from SS'ing the toggle/form's stat (ex. Ego or Int for Concentration, Str for Enrage, etc), you can consider SS'ing Dex (for more crit%, if its not already SS'd), Con (for more maxHP), and/or the EU's energy stat (if you are having some energy issues).
- For DPS, good picks for the PSS tree are Ego's (ranged), Str's (melee), Dex's, or Int's. Also: favor getting any crit severity% buffs, crit% buffs, and -resist% buffs that are available in your chosen spec trees.

I think that's mostly it- in general, at least.

sgtken60 · April 2020

flowcyto wrote: »

I think Bluhman had one, and Kamo's sticky here for end-game dps builds also covers some basics, though there's not much else else that's relatively recent, afaik. I'd say that generally starting w/ an AT build that you like and modifying it into FF isn't a bad start, though. You can then analyze the build and see how all the diff powers and stats jive together.

First off as normal thanks Flow. I was reading Kamo's when I saw you had answered me. Analyze: That is what I have been trying with my Professor Joan Jett, you posted a build for me a while back here: https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/1212507/advice-time-my-first-freeform-slot

And I used it for a base to go off of, so it has been helpful, when I hit 40, I will post her build here. And she has done some grabs, etc. so far it has been fun.

flowcyto · April 2020

Yea, her build is obv a bit of a special case, but you can still apply many of the same principles to it. As long as your build is relatively efficient at realizing your goals for the character, the character isn't dying (too much) w/ it, and you're having fun, then I'd say you're generally gtg 8)

sgtken60 · April 2020

Well, my "plan" @flowcyto is a "light pet build", leaning heavy into the Gadgeteering line. I have gotten her up to level 18 so far, I have died a few times during a few of grabs matches/games - LoL but it is my fault, I got watching teammates trying to figure out their builds/powers that I did not watch my health bar.

One player had a (I am guessing) a heavy pet build he was just running around ripping everything up - I was more than a little amazed, and the other one was a Tank, and they must of been a very good player/build my Support Drones hardly ever had to heal him.
And he was just trashing the mobs.

holloweaver · April 2020

I second to read Kamo's guide : this one. I like how she uses colors for a better readability.

She has another guide for cosmics with clear infos on them but also on which spike attacks are the best : here.
Personally I think an easy way to make your own build is to :
- choose a damage type (slashing, dimensional, ego, etc...),
- check which spike attack is strong,
- pick a good aoe in this damage type,
- add a power with a resistance debuff (i.e. : Stress for ego damages, Demolish for crushing damages, etc...),
- complete with some survavibility tools (heals, bubbles, AD, ...).
That would be the skeleton of the build.
Finish with checking the energy management of your chosen powers (form, energy unlock, spes, ....).

There are the exceptions of healer/cc builds (much less focused on damage powers) and petmasters (more focused on maxing his summons).

flowcyto · April 2020

In Alerts, you will be weak regardless of build if you are lower level- even though you're kicked up to the Alert's basic level, your stats still aren't great (relatively). I wouldn't fully judge a build when you still have many levels to go (and ofc much better gear to get), as you need to rely more on other players at that point when doing group content (ie. let them pull, block and heal if you get aggro from a bigger mob, CC if you can, pick off weaker targets, etc). The other players you saw were prob max_high-lvl level FFs that were vet players. They can dominate 5-man content w/ the right builds and decent gear- it's not actually that tough to do, once you get some experience w/ it.

sgtken60 · April 2020

@holloweaver thanks for your help.

flowcyto wrote: »

In Alerts, you will be weak regardless of build if you are lower level- even though you're kicked up to the Alert's basic level, your stats still aren't great (relatively). I wouldn't fully judge a build when you still have many levels to go (and ofc much better gear to get), as you need to rely more on other players at that point when doing group content (ie. let them pull, block and heal if you get aggro from a bigger mob, CC if you can, pick off weaker targets, etc). The other players you saw were prob max_high-lvl level FFs that were vet players. They can dominate 5-man content w/ the right builds and decent gear- it's not actually that tough to do, once you get some experience w/ it.

Oh yes they did, the Tank was amazing is black/red colors, armored looking much larger than everyone else's toon. It was fun to watch (and try to help) them.

But the "Pet Master", they must of had almost all the pet skills on the toon, I do not know how they kept track of it. I guess it must be my age, I turn 60 next month and I have been playing online since the late 1990s (Ultima Online, was the 1st for me), it just always blows me away to watch someone with that skill-set.

I thought I was doing great fighting the rad-zombies - - - LoL

flowcyto · April 2020

Pet Master builds aren't necc that hard to play- mainly due to being able to see all your pets w/ a special UI window. It's actually somewhat the contrary, as pets can do stuff in the background even when your own character isn't doing anything else, although pet AI can be problematic at times. Usually for those builds the person is either a decent healer/Support w/ pets and is built to easily AoE heal them all, or is more dps-oriented and instead just re-summons a pet if they see it die on their pet window.

Geared tanks are also gonna stomp more casual content like Alerts- esp if they are using a passive like Invuln to nullify a lot of lighter dmg from trash, and if they have easy AoE to spam + enough self-heals for sustain. You may get to a point where you can cruise through that content too, in due time.

holloweaver · April 2020

I know very well how pet AIs can be a problem... such as in Nemcon we wanted to aggro the glads one by one until the pets decided to charge in all of them. There was no healer, the dps died so fast. *le sigh*

It's true too that a geared tank with self-heals can shrug most damages but isn't it the point of a good tank?
Same can be said about a dps who can deal 20k crit damages. As a tank, I don't crit for 20k.

flowcyto · April 2020

It's true too that a geared tank with self-heals can shrug most damages but isn't it the point of a good tank?
Same can be said about a dps who can deal 20k crit damages. As a tank, I don't crit for 20k.

Sure, geared dps FFs can rip through Alerts too, but he mentioned a Tank player, so I was just staying on that topic. Really, an experienced & geared player of any role can make that sort of content easy *shrug* I guess my main point is for the OP to not judge himself too harshly or preemptively after seeing players like that.

sgtken60 · April 2020

Judge myself, No, no LoL I was more amazed at them. After all my years of gaming - Pen and Paper to Computer - I know, with any game I will need to learn.

flowcyto · April 2020

Fair enough; but you'll be much stronger at max level too. If you need any more help w/ that, though, just let us know.

sgtken60 · April 2020

flowcyto wrote: »

Fair enough; but you'll be much stronger at max level too. If you need any more help w/ that, though, just let us know.

Sure I will BTW here is my hero, that I am working on - - Professor Joan Jett

flowcyto · April 2020

cool, and nice costume!

sgtken60 · April 2020

Thank you, flow. I have to use a lot of Black, and Greys in my Heroes I have color deficiency. So I have a real hard time with the color charts

But far as my build, I am still sticking towards Gadgeteering, for me it is more of a role-playing thing. Years ago I had in the pen and paper of CO. I played a Gadgeteer, (different name) so this hero is bringing back some great memories of my CO games on board ship in the USN.

spookyspectre · April 2020

The black heart is that extra touch

sgtken60 · April 2020

spookyspectre wrote: »

The black heart is that extra touch

Well of course, after all what would Joan Jett be without her Black Hearts

Also You can tell what music I was I listening to when I named her.

LoL

sgtken60 · April 2020

flowcyto wrote: »

I'd say that generally starting w/ an AT build that you like and modifying it into FF isn't a bad start, though. You can then analyze the build and see how all the diff powers and stats jive together.

Well I have been reading, so flow how is this one? Just a test trying to learn, and see if it sinks into my thick head - LoL
I am sure there is mistakes and it is based off my solo play so it is most likely not good for end play.

https://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm?v=35&n=Test Build&d=13170NdPAQFa013060J000J205JA03JE4jJF07JI05K503JD00JK00JC00JN03JQ18JO00OQ0009Wm438Q3bIm30000000000&e=

flowcyto · April 2020

Well I have been reading, so flow how is this one?

It is a bit messy atm, but I can't really blame you, since you're still learning much. I'm reiterating some points I made earlier, but here's some basic tips:

- You typically don't want to rank up your toggle/form (here, Enrage), as you should be able to stack it pretty easily in combat anyways. (Enrage's Giant Growth adv doesn't count, though, since it's for looks and costs no points; take that if you want it)
- Defense Combo could use the Pummel adv, so it can knock for Enrage (and Pulverizer). Remember to try to make your main attacks work with your toggle/form (if you want an easier time, at least).
- If dealing w/ Alert content, I'd prob take Invuln over Defiance as the passive, since then you don't have to get hit for your passive to work, and it's quite better vs. most trash mobs anyways (w/ its large, flat dmg shield).
- You'll want to get your Energy Unlock (Pulverizer) earlier, so you don't have as many energy issues early on.
- Ranking the lunge (Mighty Leap) is also a bit of a waste here. Although you could get NttG for flying enemies, you could also just leave it unranked and save some adv points.
- If taking Havoc Stomp for AoE, then I'd highly recommend getting the knock-in adv, since clumping up mobs is very useful in groups to help your allies AoE things down quickly, and also helps you w/ follow-ups (like w/ Defense Combo's cleave).
- You'll want an Active Defense here (I'd take it instead of unranked Call to Battle), for more difficult situations.
- Although Con PSS is okay for tanks, you'll prob want Str PSS here instead- esp cause Juggernaut can give you large Defense bonuses w/ all of the Con you would gear for the build.
- Quick Healing/Recovery in the PSS tree doesn't scale very well; I'd generally avoid those sort of options in specs.
- As a Tank, you'll also want to rank up your block enhancer (Retaliation).
- If using a self-res, I may get a different one than Rebirth, since it will deal your maxHP in damage to you over time.
- You'll want a heavier-hitting attack for bosses, like Haymaker, Demolish, or Uppercut (if staying in Might). Even w/o debuffs or Reckless, R3 Haymaker is still very good for single-target dps (and threat) when charged (mind the knock-back versus trash, though).

There's prob a few other things to nitpick, but I'll show you an edit of the build, for reference:

Test Build - Freeform (Tank)
v3.43:35

Super Stats
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Behemoth (Str: 10, Con: 10, Rec: 10, End: 8)
Level 6: Paramilitary Training (Str: 3, Con: 3, Rec: 3, End: 3)
Level 9: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Physical Conditioning (Str: 5, Con: 5)
Level 18: Bodybuilder (Str: 5, End: 5)
Level 21: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Defensive Combo (Rank 2, Rank 3, Pummel)
Level 6: Enrage (Giant Growth)
Level 8: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Pulverizer
Level 14: Endorphin Rush (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Havoc Stomp (Rank 2, Major Impact, Challenge!)
Level 20: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenge!)
Level 23: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 26: Mighty Leap
Level 29: Retaliation (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Aggressor
Level 38: Fiery Embrace
Adv. Points: 35/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Athletics

Specializations
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (2/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Defensive Expertise (3/3)
Protector: Resolute (2/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Protector Mastery (1/1)

You could re-order a few of the powers for leveling, if you want, though I wouldn't change it too drastically. You could also change to the Hybrid role when out solo if you want a bit more personal dps, but it's up to you. This build gears mostly for Con, w/ some Str and Rec.

holloweaver · April 2020

Yes, very messy.
No single target attack, no resistance debuff and adv points not put in the right powers.

Feedback :
-Defensive Combo : Surge of Strength is useless and with Enrage, Pommel is much better as it helps to stack/maintain your Enrage.
-Mighty Leap : ranking a lunge is useless, it'll still deal low damages while you could put these points into something useful.
-Enrage : ranking a form doesn't improve its scaling and it's often considered useless, build correctly with enough knock powers to stack/maintain your form instead.
-Thunderclap : you already have 2 aoes (DC and Havoc Stomp), you don't need a 3rd aoe.
-Retaliation : you need a R3 block.
-Pulverizer : it doesn't give enough energy hence most players go with Strength PSS and Physical Peak.
-Havoc Stomp : Cry Havoc is good but you're a tank, do you really want to spend your time running after mobs you just knocked away from you? Major Impact is a better choice.
-Call to Battle : ok it's a nice power but you're choosing it over a single target attack (Haymaker) so no, it's not a good choice.
-Rebirth : no ! As a tank, when you die you loose all the aggro you build, a self-rez will never get your aggro back. As a tank, don't die or don't tank but self-rezz is useless.
-no Active Defense : you need one as a tank.

Now about the stats and spes : as I've mentioned, Pulverizer is bad at providing energy so you should go with Strength PSS and Physical Peak. Strength is a good PSS for tanks too.

My suggested build : Test Tank
A few notes :
-Defensive Combo+Havoc Stomp+Demolish are enough to kill everything under MV.
-keep Haymaker for bosses who are immune to knock.

Super Stats
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Wrecker (Str: 10, Dex: 8, Con: 10, Rec: 10)
Level 6: Physical Conditioning (Str: 5, Con: 5)
Level 9: Relentless (Str: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 15: Paramilitary Training (Str: 3, Con: 3, Rec: 3, End: 3)
Level 18: Covert Ops Training (Str: 3, Dex: 3, Con: 3, Int: 3)
Level 21: Martial Training (Str: 3, Dex: 3, Ego: 3, Rec: 3)

Powers
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Defensive Combo (Rank 2, Rank 3, Pummel)
Level 6: Pulverizer
Level 8: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Enrage (Giant Growth)
Level 14: Demolish (Below the Belt, Challenge!)
Level 17: Endorphin Rush (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Havoc Stomp (Rank 2, Major Impact, Challenge!)
Level 23: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Mighty Leap (Nailed to the Ground)
Level 29: Retaliation (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Aggressor
Level 38: Unbreakable
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2)
Level 35: Flight

Specializations
Strength: Swole (2/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Juggernaut (2/3)
Strength: Overpower (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

sgtken60 · April 2020

@flowcyto and @holloweaver thanks you both for the pointers.

EDIT: Now that I am at work, and awake, I am going to add more to this posting, I started anew with a new FF using my old Behemoth Hero's Name: Hauptmann Eisenblut (picture link below), with him I am started with holloweaver's build for no special reason.

I got him up to level 9 this morning before work, I started him off in the tutorial. It was kinda fun smashing bugs again, so it got me a thinking of a few things.

First what do you two think of the other's build?
The second thing was a just idea on my part, I only have two FF slots, this one and the Professor, and maybe kinda compare two in a posting of my misadventures in CO.

Do you two think this short of thing would work on here?

holloweaver · April 2020

Your other build? Which one? The one posted on your profile?

sgtken60 · April 2020

holloweaver wrote: »

Your other build? Which one? The one posted on your profile?

Well in a way yes, it is just a lose guide for me. And it is not really done, I am trying stuff out as I go seeing what fits my idea of the hero (based off my old pen/paper one), and my play-style.

I have not done any end game content, and due life, wife, job. I only play a few hours a day. So I play mainly just to have fun, and relax.

See all this is a learning experience for me (the builds I mean), I can read stuff hundred and fifty times but I have to actually do it in order for it to click with me. If what I am trying to type makes any sense - LoL

flowcyto · April 2020

sgtken60 wrote: »

holloweaver wrote: »

Your other build? Which one? The one posted on your profile?

See all this is a learning experience for me (the builds I mean), I can read stuff hundred and fifty times but I have to actually do it in order for it to click with me. If what I am trying to type makes any sense - LoL

No, it's fine. Getting hands-on w/ it is a good way to learn, as you'd have to put what you've learned into practice eventually.

You'll prob want to make a new thread later on if you want to focus the discussion on a specific build/hero, though- just so it's easier to follow.

sgtken60 · April 2020

Yeah, flow I thought the same thing.

holloweaver · April 2020

Yes, please one build per thread.

Testing powers and how to combine them can definitely be a lot of fun. Here, it's certainly different from pnp as everything is managed by an AI, not a GM. So if a build is too weak, the AI knows no forgiveness. But we can get more self-satisfaction when we're making a good build.
For my own builds, I can be very "aesthetic demanding" -if it means something?-. For examples : I love dual blade animations and I wanted them on one of my tank. Or another thing : I dislike melee energy builders. Taunt is silly in my opinion : "point a cocky finger at your ennemy, deal 0 damages and get 6 enery". Errr no, I prefer to throw him a fire, deals 70 damages and get 16 energy with 20% chance to make him burn.

You won't even need to reach endgame to test your build : Monster Island with Mega-Terak and Viper's Nest. Then you'll see how good you do so far.

If it can ease you, don't be afraid to mess with my suggested build. I posted it mainly to show you one way to do it but it's not the only way (cf @flowcyto build).

sgtken60 · April 2020

holloweaver wrote: »

If it can ease you, don't be afraid to mess with my suggested build. I posted it mainly to show you one way to do it but it's not the only way (cf @flowcyto build).

Thanks for that, so I will try other stuff with it.

"How to" make your FF Hero

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