How to fix PFF.

spinnytop
spinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
edited April 2020 in Suggestions Box
Personally I think they should do this with PFF:

- regenerates faster the lower your current shield amount is. For example, at 30% it regenerates ~20% per second, at 90% it regenerates ~5% per second.
- the amount the shield absorbs is lower as the shield amount is lower, For example, at below 30% it absorbs 50% damage. At 100% it absorbs 100% damage.
- blocking no longer affects regeneration speed.
- shield amount scales with all super stats.
- Regeneration speed no longer scales with super stats.
- shield amount is no longer affected by any +healing modifiers.

So now it's viable for cosmic tanking as it will give good mitigation under repeated heavy blows, and will give really good mitigation for that first attack you take. When going up against swarms of enemies you will similarly start the fight with really good mitigation, but under continued pressure that mitigation will fall - Field Surge can be used to extend this initial period of really good mitigation. In both cases healing becomes relevant again because under pressure eventually you will need healing to survive.

This is also nice and thematic; at high power the shield is an impenetrable barrier, while at lower power it becomes more of a dampener, exactly how you would expect something like that to function. The problem of "my passive disappeared" has disappeared.

Comments

  • warcanch
    warcanch Posts: 944 Arc User
    edited April 2020
    Just to be clear, there IS an actual "health number" to the PFF. Right? Such as ... 5k ... 10k ... 20k?

    Can it be brought to 0%? Or will there be a minimum it can get to? Such as 5% ... 10% ... 20%?

    Otherwise, sounds interesting to me.


    What about the difference between one BIG hit vs a bunch of small hits? This question is relevant to the difference between Invuln and Defiance. As, I would think the PFF should get chewed up by the many small hits before it starts to regen.

    Maybe the PFF needs to hit certain thresholds before it activates a "% regen for X seconds". Such as: value is 90% full, now activate a +1% regen for 10 sec. Cooldown? Value hits 70% full, now activate a +3% regen for 10 sec. Cooldown? And, something in the code to keep it from hitting a "going up" threshold and reducing the regen. 10 sec of X% then maybe a short cooldown.

    But what to do when it hits 71%? Ah well. Discuss.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • spinnytop
    spinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited April 2020
    warcanch wrote: »
    Just to be clear, there IS an actual "health number" to the PFF. Right? Such as ... 5k ... 10k ... 20k?
    Yes, that part wasn't changed.
    warcanch wrote: »
    Can it be brought to 0%? Or will there be a minimum it can get to? Such as 5% ... 10% ... 20%?
    Yes, it can be brought to 0. It would only remain there for about 1 second ( or whatever the interval they end up using is ).
    warcanch wrote: »
    What about the difference between one BIG hit vs a bunch of small hits? This question is relevant to the difference between Invuln and Defiance. As, I would think the PFF should get chewed up by the many small hits before it starts to regen.​​

    Many small hits would be able to hit the PFF user when PFF's shield is at 0, since some of the hits would reduce it to 0, and then other hits would hit before it could regen dealing their entire damage as health damage. Slow big attacks would never be able to hit again before the PFF had recovered some of its strength.

    warcanch wrote: »
    Maybe the PFF needs to hit certain thresholds before it activates a "% regen for X seconds". Such as: value is 90% full, now activate a +1% regen for 10 sec. Cooldown? Value hits 70% full, now activate a +3% regen for 10 sec. Cooldown? And, something in the code to keep it from hitting a "going up" threshold and reducing the regen. 10 sec of X% then maybe a short cooldown.

    But what to do when it hits 71%? Ah well. Discuss.​​

    So long as the regen and absorption values dynamically adjust as the health of the shield changes, I'm fine with whatever internal mechanisms they use.
  • warcanch
    warcanch Posts: 944 Arc User
    As RavenForce mentioned in the other thread, one of the things "we" don't like about PFF is that "we" are constantly nursing it to keep it viable.

    This idea removes that. Let the testing determine the balance of thresholds and other numbers. Because it shouldn't be better than Regen at regenerating forcefield health. Unless they give some attention to Regen, as well. NEXT THREAD!​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • kingpin0000
    kingpin0000 Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited April 2020
    spinnytop wrote: »
    This is also nice and thematic; at high power the shield is an impenetrable barrier, while at lower power it becomes more of a dampener, exactly how you would expect something like that to function. The problem of "my passive disappeared" has disappeared.

    Beyond my curiosity about the values you would personally use & that thought provoking point/suggestion @warcanch made at the end of his reply I can get behind this concept. It effectively checks my boxes & was really easy to reconcile.

    It seemingly forgoes as many outside factors as possible for state based results. If I understand correctly, it's built around mitigating a percent of incoming damage but is unique in that it is centered around quick regeneration of the shield especially as the shield gets lower so like you said it addresses the 11th hour scenario without forcing the shield to stay up or simply leaving you to eat heavy hits directly for a given amount of time & beyond being at full strength it always lets some damage through which keeps it from being OP all the time, correct? The only questions I have now are:

    1. Is there any passive benefit to defense/all-damage resist or is this just something that you should gear for defense to use?
    2. How important is stacking health? I imagine that its useful to have extra health when the shield depletes but you shouldn't need a lot given the regeneration rate & reduction. Though at the same time, damage always gets through below 100% right? If so, health is big I take it. Basically, if I wanted to stack PRE would I at least be fine against non-cosmic enemies?
    Post edited by kingpin0000 on
  • spinnytop
    spinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    1. Is there any passive benefit to defense/all-damage resist or is this just something that you should gear for defense to use?

    Not sure exactly what you're asking here. With my proposal PFF would continue to operate the same way it does currently in regard to the player's Defense stat, so Defense would provide the same benefit it does now.
    2. How important is stacking health? I imagine that its useful to have extra health when the shield depletes but you shouldn't need a lot given the regeneration rate & reduction. Though at the same time, damage always gets through below 100% right? If so, health is big I take it. Basically, if I wanted to stack PRE would I at least be fine against non-cosmic enemies?

    Health would basically be for a PFF user the same as it is for users of other defensive passives now. Need a tank-sized health pool for cosmics to deal with the damage that gets through the shield, but for everything else you could get by with much less.
  • thewinxfairy
    thewinxfairy Posts: 70 Arc User
    Idea:

    What if other player’s heals regen some of the force field? Like a percentage of incoming heals, or even heals in general? So for example, PFF will regen 300 health to its bubble for every 1,000 health points healed to the tank. This way, you would theoretically still “cushion” kiga/Dino/ape’s hits all the time. Healers and teammates would be able to contribute to the viability of the PFF tank.
  • warcanch
    warcanch Posts: 944 Arc User
    I think the idea is to NOT have the passive being nursable.

    All of the other passives don't need or get support, other than what everyone gets. The use of the passive becomes too reliant on heals, bubbles, etc and for balance sake would be too wimpy without them.

    Nurse the players' health pool, not the passive.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • kingpin0000
    kingpin0000 Posts: 64 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Not sure exactly what you're asking here. With my proposal PFF would continue to operate the same way it does currently in regard to the player's Defense stat, so Defense would provide the same benefit it does now.

    Sorry about that, I'll try to clarify. So assuming that I'm right in the general understanding that: Invuln gives flat-reduction on top of damage resistance while Defiance gives a sizable amount of damage resist alone and that that bonus amount is on top of what defense provides... Does this give any amount towards additional damage resist or are we stacking it through defense only? With how the damage is mitigated I'm wondering if we could get away gearing for dodge instead or something. Hope that's clear enough.

  • spinnytop
    spinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    Sorry about that, I'll try to clarify. So assuming that I'm right in the general understanding that: Invuln gives flat-reduction on top of damage resistance while Defiance gives a sizable amount of damage resist alone and that that bonus amount is on top of what defense provides... Does this give any amount towards additional damage resist or are we stacking it through defense only? With how the damage is mitigated I'm wondering if we could get away gearing for dodge instead or something. Hope that's clear enough.

    I didn't add any additional mitigation from the passive itself. All the additional resistance to damage it gives comes by virtue of the second hit point bar, just like now.

    Gearing for dodge would be unreliable just like now. Sometimes you randomly have no damage mitigation, and since you're not using LR those sometimes would come pretty frequently. Defense would likely still be the better option since the shield from PFF gains mitigation from the player's Defense score.
  • holloweaver
    holloweaver Posts: 572 Arc User
    warcanch wrote: »
    As RavenForce mentioned in the other thread, one of the things "we" don't like about PFF is that "we" are constantly nursing it to keep it viable.

    This idea removes that. Let the testing determine the balance of thresholds and other numbers. Because it shouldn't be better than Regen at regenerating forcefield health. Unless they give some attention to Regen, as well. NEXT THREAD!​​

    Agreed.
    I believe that PFF should provide a defensive bonus passively just like other passives.

    Could you imagine PFF mechanics on other passives?
    Imagine that (for example) you would loose +n% damage bonus from Electric Form, each time you apply negative ions and the only way to get your damage bonus back would be :
    - deal no damages,
    - use Electric Sheath.

    For me, I expect PFF as a defensive passive to provide a defensive bonus passively and persistently during a fight.
    I believe it would make more sense if its mechanics were simply reversed : each time you can take damages you proc the shield rege (i.e. : each time you use PFF the way it's supposed to be efficient).
    The lower the shield, the higher the rege.