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Crowd Control Builds

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  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    pjz99 wrote: »
    And another gadget-themed version, this works well:

    Joy Buzzer
    v2.4.2-29

    Super Stats
    Level 6: Presence (Primary)
    Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Powers
    Level 1: Sonic Blaster (advantages)
    Level 1: Bionic Shielding (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 6: Experimental Burst Ray (Rank 2, Arcturus Cooling System)
    Level 8: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 11: Manipulator (advantages)
    Level 14: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 17: Mental Leech (Challenge!)
    Level 20: Electrocute (Rank 2, Rank 3) - Note that since the Electric rework this is 5 targets and the arcs definitely do not break sleep
    Level 23: Telekinetic Maelstrom (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenge!)
    Level 26: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 29: Resurgence (advantages)
    Level 32: Rebirth (advantages)
    Level 35: Masterful Dodge (advantages)
    Level 38: Aura of Arcane Clarity (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Adv. Points: 36/36

    Travel Powers
    Level 6: Jet Boots (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Athletics (advantages)

    Specializations
    Presence: Repurpose (3/3)
    Presence: Dominion (2/2)
    Presence: Moment of Glory (3/3)
    Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
    Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
    Sentinel: Caregiver (3/3)
    Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
    Sentinel: Moment of Need (2/3)
    Sentry: Fortified Gear (2/3)
    Sentry: Sentry Aura (3/3)
    Sentry: Fortify (2/2)
    Sentry: Stalling Tactics (3/3)
    Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)


    It bothers me that there's so little variation among these builds, it would be good if there were some alternate versions of things like AOE Sleep (e.g. "Gadget/Sleep Gas, Sorcery/Mass Hypnosis, etc)

    Good stuff and great note regarding Electrocute. I have seen a lot of questions about it and had not tried it out yet. It's cool to see CC getting more use in general.

    There was a time not too long ago when there was no point in it. Mobs were either too easy to kill to bother CCing or were CC immune. But now that we have CC-able tough/dangerous mobs and mechanics you see more people running around with Manipulator, Sleep, etc.

    I think the point about alternate CC powers to fit various themes is good and it will happen. It just might take some time. CCing being useful overall is only a recent development after all.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    There's one particular use for CC that's generally against the MMO concept. Namely CCing enemies so you don't have to kill them. You get resources for every kill so you have a solid motive to mow down everything in your path.
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  • pjz99pjz99 Posts: 143 Arc User
    There's another outlook that if the reward behind the thing you are bypassing is more valuable than the time required to kill the stuff in the way, or if it's too difficult to kill the stuff in the way then it's smarter to bypass it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • lineghostlineghost Posts: 14 Arc User
    Are the fire hold powers any good?

    My fire controller was one on my favorite characters in CoH back in the day and I've toyed around with the idea of trying to create something with at least the same theme in CO.
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    lineghost wrote: »
    Are the fire hold powers any good?

    My fire controller was one on my favorite characters in CoH back in the day and I've toyed around with the idea of trying to create something with at least the same theme in CO.

    They work like all other hold powers of their type. Namely stuns, paralyzes, and incapacitates.

    The main difficulty is that Fire hold powers apply Clinging Flames, which doesn't work in a rotation that uses Ego Sleep since the flames break sleep's CC. If you have sufficient hold strength you could use a paralyze instead of sleep. The flames would reduce the paralyze duration but if you can cast it right as the flames are about to expire then the paralyze won't break.

    TLDR: fire holds can be made to work for fire controllers, but it's a steeper learning curve than other types of controllers.

    On the other hand if you're *not* looking to strictly build a cosmic-capable controller and you want to just add some control effects into your rotation, Fire Breath with the Char adv is an excellent, easy, spammable aoe stun that will help your team plow through any group of mobs.
  • lineghostlineghost Posts: 14 Arc User
    kamokami wrote: »
    They work like all other hold powers of their type. Namely stuns, paralyzes, and incapacitates.

    The main difficulty is that Fire hold powers apply Clinging Flames, which doesn't work in a rotation that uses Ego Sleep since the flames break sleep's CC. If you have sufficient hold strength you could use a paralyze instead of sleep. The flames would reduce the paralyze duration but if you can cast it right as the flames are about to expire then the paralyze won't break.

    TLDR: fire holds can be made to work for fire controllers, but it's a steeper learning curve than other types of controllers.

    On the other hand if you're *not* looking to strictly build a cosmic-capable controller and you want to just add some control effects into your rotation, Fire Breath with the Char adv is an excellent, easy, spammable aoe stun that will help your team plow through any group of mobs.

    Thanks!

    Does it make much of a difference that the fire holds are maintained instead of charged?

    Also how badly does damage reduce paralyze* duration; can a dedicated controller be expected to hold non-cosmic enemies while other characters damage them or will even a few attacks break the strongest paralyze?


    (*I realize sleep breaks instantly save for a few Telepathy DoTs and Stuns are not reduced by damage.)

  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    lineghost wrote: »

    Thanks!

    Does it make much of a difference that the fire holds are maintained instead of charged?
    You are welcome! No difference. With some paralyzes, hold duration scales with charge time but that's not the case here.
    lineghost wrote: »
    Also how badly does damage reduce paralyze* duration; can a dedicated controller be expected to hold non-cosmic enemies while other characters damage them or will even a few attacks break the strongest paralyze?
    Damage reduces paralyze duration very significantly. Flames don't deal much so it's easier to overcome this with a strong paralyze, but teammates that are actually trying to kill mobs will break a paralyze quickly.

    That might be ok, because maybe you're just buying them enough time to get their attacks fully charged for a big spike.

    But generally the better use of holds vs mobs that teammates are killing is stuns.
    lineghost wrote: »
    (*I realize sleep breaks instantly save for a few Telepathy DoTs and Stuns are not reduced by damage.)
    Yup and a dedicated controller can get their stun duration to be as high as 10-17 seconds, which is more than enough time for a team to obliterate everything.
  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 978 Arc User
    I got my Grasping Shadows paralyze to 80 sec:

    Presence PSS, CC specs
    Sentienl and Sentry specs to boost CC
    Stack Pre mods in primaries
    Control mod in Cosmic secondary utility
    Two brooches to boost CC in primary utility
    Manipulator
    AoPM
    Try using Int/Pre/Etc with the Battle Of Wits and Expertise specs. That should increase your CC time a bit.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    lineghost wrote: »
    Also how badly does damage reduce paralyze* duration
    A typical paralyze has about 2,000 health, and can be eliminated in a single large attack. Useful combat CC is pretty much limited to stun effects (note that any cc effect breaking applies a stack of hold resistance for 15s, and refreshes the duration on all existing stacks. Each level of hold resistance causes holds to lose an extra second of duration every second, 3 levels resistance makes the target immune. In practice this means you're limited to three stuns in a row, one at full duration, one at half duration, and one at one-third duration).
  • lineghostlineghost Posts: 14 Arc User
    > @pantagruel01 said:
    >
    >
    > A typical paralyze has about 2,000 health, and can be eliminated in a single large attack. Useful combat CC is pretty much limited to stun effects (note that any cc effect breaking applies a stack of hold resistance for 15s, and refreshes the duration on all existing stacks. Each level of hold resistance causes holds to lose an extra second of duration every second, 3 levels resistance makes the target immune. In practice this means you're limited to three stuns in a row, one at full duration, one at half duration, and one at one-third duration).

    So what is the advantage to using sleep over a paralyze for Cosmics, does it not grant hold resistance when it expires?
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    lineghost wrote: »
    So what is the advantage to using sleep over a paralyze for Cosmics, does it not grant hold resistance when it expires?
    Sleep has more duration on MV-class targets.
  • meneshmenesh Posts: 54 Arc User
    Since I decided to try to confuse people with theme builds:

    Silvara - CC/ Ego Blade Any / Multiple
    v3.27:30

    Super Stats
    Level 6: Presence (Primary)
    Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
    Level 15: Ego (Secondary)

    Talents
    Level 1: Mind Over Matter (Ego: 12, Pre: 12)
    Level 6: Ascetic (Con: 5, Ego: 5)
    Level 9: Intimidating (Pre: 8)
    Level 12: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
    Level 15: Showmanship (Ego: 5, Pre: 5)
    Level 18: Command Training (Int: 3, Ego: 3, Pre: 3, Rec: 3)
    Level 21: Survival Training (Dex: 3, Con: 3, Pre: 3, Rec: 2, End: 2)

    Powers
    Level 1: Ego Blade
    Level 1: Ego Weaponry (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 6: Telekinetic Shield (Rank 2)
    Level 8: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 11: Manipulator
    Level 14: Ego Sprites (Slave Mentality, Challenge!)
    Level 17: Masterful Dodge
    Level 20: Telepathic Reverberation
    Level 23: Ego Form (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Ego Blade Annihilation (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 29: Shadow Eruption (Blot, Work Up, Challenge!)
    Level 32: Mind Lock
    Level 35: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 38: Aura of Arcane Clarity (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Adv. Points: 36/36

    Travel Powers
    Level 6: Teleportation (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Athletics

    Specializations
    Presence: Dominion (2/2)
    Presence: Grandeur (3/3)
    Presence: Moment of Glory (3/3)
    Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
    Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
    Sentinel: Eternal Spring (2/2)
    Sentinel: Caregiver (1/3)
    Sentinel: Moment of Need (3/3)
    Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
    Brawler: The Glory of Battle (3/3)
    Brawler: Penetrating Strikes (2/2)
    Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
    Brawler: Finishing Blow (1/3)
    Brawler: Setup (2/2)
    Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

    Devices


    That's my original CCer, Silvara of Thras. The build was made before the dogs got hyperactive, but it still works just the same.
    It's got one major weakness in not having a tap hold. If things go wrong, they usually go wrong. Still I am very happy with using Shadow Eruption there. It's a three in one. It stuns, it heals, it challenges.
  • meneshmenesh Posts: 54 Arc User
    Flora Plant OT/CC WIP Any / Multiple
    v3.27:30

    Super Stats
    Level 6: Presence (Primary)
    Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
    Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

    Talents
    Level 1: The Radiant (Int: 10, Ego: 10, Pre: 10, Rec: 8)
    Level 6: Enduring (Con: 8)
    Level 9: Intimidating (Pre: 8)
    Level 12: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
    Level 15: Brilliant (Int: 8)
    Level 18: Diplomatic (Int: 5, Pre: 5)
    Level 21: Healthy Mind (Con: 5, Int: 5)

    Powers
    Level 1: Bestial Fury
    Level 1: Venomous Breath (Rank 2, Paralytic Bile, Challenge!)
    Level 6: Antagonize (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 8: Grasping Shadows (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenge!)
    Level 11: Manipulator
    Level 14: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 17: Telepathic Reverberation
    Level 20: Urthona's Charm
    Level 23: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Masterful Dodge
    Level 29: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
    Level 32: Ego Sprites (Rank 2, Slave Mentality, Challenge!)
    Level 35: Bolas (Rank 2, Nailed to the Ground, Challenge!)
    Level 38: Rebirth
    Adv. Points: 36/36

    Travel Powers
    Level 6: Ooze Tunneling
    Level 35: Vine Swinging

    Specializations
    Presence: Repurpose (3/3)
    Presence: Dominion (2/2)
    Presence: Moment of Glory (1/3)
    Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
    Presence: Vulnerability (2/2)
    Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
    Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
    Sentinel: Moment of Need (1/3)
    Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
    Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
    Sentry: Fortified Gear (2/3)
    Sentry: Sentry Aura (3/3)
    Sentry: Stalling Tactics (3/3)
    Sentry: Reinforce (2/2)
    Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

    Devices


    My new CCer/ Offtank, Flora. Still a bit work in progress, and I'm not totally sold to the idea of CCing without a stun/ waker.
  • qawsadaqawsada Posts: 739 Arc User
  • rerrotrerrot Posts: 80 Arc User
    Well... my 1º build of CC for Cosmics:

    Super Stats
    Level 6. Presence (Primary)
    Level 10. Constitution (Secondary)
    Level 15. Ego (Secondary)

    Talents
    Level 1. The Hero (Str: 8, Dex: 8, Con: 8, Int: 8, Ego: 8, Pre: 8, Rec: 6, End: 6)
    Level 6. Ascetic (Con: 5, Ego: 5)
    Level 9. Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
    Level 12. Showmanship (Ego: 5, Pre: 5)
    Level 15. Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
    Level 18. Worldly (Ego: 5, Rec: 5)
    Level 21. Lasting Impression (Pre: 5, Rec: 5)

    Powers
    Level 1. Eldritch Bolts
    Level 1. Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 6. Eldritch Shield (Rank 2)
    Level 8. Ego Sprites (Rank 2, Slave Mentality)
    Level 11. Manipulator
    Level 14. Telepathic Reverberation
    Level 17. Mental Leech (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 20. Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23. Ego Storm (Rank 2, Malevolent Manifestation)
    Level 26. Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 29. Masterful Dodge
    Level 32. Rebirth
    Level 35. Grasping Shadows (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 38. Bionic Shielding (Rank 2, Rank 3)

    Travel Powers
    Level 6. Athletics (Rank 2)
    Level 35. Flight (Rank 2)

    Specializations
    Presence: Repurpose (3/3)
    Presence: Dominion (2/2)
    Presence: Grandeur (1/3)
    Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
    Presence: Vulnerability (2/2)
    Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
    Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
    Sentinel: Moment of Need (1/3)
    Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
    Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
    Sentry: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Sentry: Sentry Aura (3/3)
    Sentry: Stalling Tactics (3/3)
    Sentry: Reinforce (1/2)
    Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,076 Arc User
    @rerrot, If you are doing Kigatilik, phase 2 pull yourself, I suggest you drop the 2 ranks in Mental Leech and put them on Masterful Dodge. That gives you a 100% Dodge. Super important when Kiga is sniping you.

    Ego Sprites does not need ranks, so I suggest taking the 1 rank from that and giving Challenge to both Ego Sprites and Mental Leech. Although, only one is really necessary.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • rerrotrerrot Posts: 80 Arc User
    mmm.... ok. I was with the idea of kill the dogs of boring. XD
    Too i can try that combination and after change if the plan fail. And the others parts of the build are ok or i need change others powers/points? I'm trying put 1 toon (Grimoire with upgrade) of CC for the problem of "We need CC for Kiga and Ape"...
  • negusonic#7245 negusonic Posts: 103 Arc User
    > @kamokami said:
    > Want to start a thread where we can list the various options for Crowd Control (CCer) builds. Will also link here from the Tips for Giant Monsters guide (see my signature).
    >
    > These builds are actually also some of the best offtank setups for Teleios Ascendant. The builds posted below have been tested and proven to work at helping Kigatilik, Ape, and TA runs succeed. Some of them are even great at Eido.
    >
    > Would love to get everyone's thoughts on how to improve them and what other options or ideas might be out there.

    The nature of Endgame CC builds as they're currently constituted is essentially:

    -Create a Tank
    -Give them adequate PRE
    -Save one power for Ego Sleep (maybe ranked up but likely rank 1 is adequate)
    -Maybe also one power for Manipulator
    -Slot some devices that perform intermittent paralyze in-between sleep cycle (usually in an alternative build) but just swap out inventory. (Psionic Accelerator is the standalone standout)

    Endgame CC is not expected nor encouraged to use confuses nor enchantments nor placates nor interrupts (which are all cc effects notably missing from all of these builds).

    All CC gameplay is based around watching the debuff counters on enemies and (unfortunately) making sure not to collaborate your cc attacks with any other CC power used by other players. I think it's most important to point these last two points out to player from other MMORPGs who see the potential of what they want their hero's chosen skills to be vs the reality of the nature of Crowd Control in Champions Online.

    --

    TL:DR
    The build doesn't matter. The players' vigilance matters. (The CC player and the allies). But save a space for Ego Sleep because it's the cheapest, easiest form of CC that players expect you to have in order to "Off Tank" controllable enemies.

    Additionally as CCer, expect to play alone. Player behavior does not heal the cc, nor offer them any support during a fight. This behavioral neglect has been passed down from the Launch Day and subsequent "nerfs" to support.

    If you play a CCer I hope this does not discourage you as I still find it the most fun and unique form of play.
  • spookyspectrespookyspectre Posts: 632 Arc User
    The nature of Endgame CC builds as they're currently constituted is essentially:

    -Create a Tank
    -Give them adequate PRE
    -Save one power for Ego Sleep (maybe ranked up but likely rank 1 is adequate)
    -Maybe also one power for Manipulator
    -Slot some devices that perform intermittent paralyze in-between sleep cycle (usually in an alternative build) but just swap out inventory. (Psionic Accelerator is the standalone standout)

    Endgame CC is not expected nor encouraged to use confuses nor enchantments nor placates nor interrupts (which are all cc effects notably missing from all of these builds).

    All CC gameplay is based around watching the debuff counters on enemies and (unfortunately) making sure not to collaborate your cc attacks with any other CC power used by other players. I think it's most important to point these last two points out to player from other MMORPGs who see the potential of what they want their hero's chosen skills to be vs the reality of the nature of Crowd Control in Champions Online.

    --

    TL:DR
    The build doesn't matter. The players' vigilance matters. (The CC player and the allies). But save a space for Ego Sleep because it's the cheapest, easiest form of CC that players expect you to have in order to "Off Tank" controllable enemies.

    Additionally as CCer, expect to play alone. Player behavior does not heal the cc, nor offer them any support during a fight. This behavioral neglect has been passed down from the Launch Day and subsequent "nerfs" to support.

    If you play a CCer I hope this does not discourage you as I still find it the most fun and unique form of play.

    Respectfully, most of this is really inaccurate for CCing at Cosmics and should be disregarded by anyone interested in making a CC build for Cosmics.
  • negusonic#7245 negusonic Posts: 103 Arc User
    The nature of Endgame CC builds as they're currently constituted is essentially:

    -Create a Tank
    -Give them adequate PRE
    -Save one power for Ego Sleep (maybe ranked up but likely rank 1 is adequate)
    -Maybe also one power for Manipulator
    -Slot some devices that perform intermittent paralyze in-between sleep cycle (usually in an alternative build) but just swap out inventory. (Psionic Accelerator is the standalone standout)

    Endgame CC is not expected nor encouraged to use confuses nor enchantments nor placates nor interrupts (which are all cc effects notably missing from all of these builds).

    All CC gameplay is based around watching the debuff counters on enemies and (unfortunately) making sure not to collaborate your cc attacks with any other CC power used by other players. I think it's most important to point these last two points out to player from other MMORPGs who see the potential of what they want their hero's chosen skills to be vs the reality of the nature of Crowd Control in Champions Online.

    --

    TL:DR
    The build doesn't matter. The players' vigilance matters. (The CC player and the allies). But save a space for Ego Sleep because it's the cheapest, easiest form of CC that players expect you to have in order to "Off Tank" controllable enemies.

    Additionally as CCer, expect to play alone. Player behavior does not heal the cc, nor offer them any support during a fight. This behavioral neglect has been passed down from the Launch Day and subsequent "nerfs" to support.

    If you play a CCer I hope this does not discourage you as I still find it the most fun and unique form of play.
  • bladedragon80bladedragon80 Posts: 146 Arc User
    Hi! So, I haven't seen much on this thread in a while and I'm still parsing a lot. The last one was over a year ago. What has changed since then as far as CCing and what is the current formula? The Healer and DPS guides seem to still be up to date, but this thread's a bit of a mess and I'm curious as to how best to make one at current.
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,076 Arc User
    Minimum to have (in my opinion):

    Mental Leech w/ Challenge, Masterful Dodge rank3, Ego Sleep rank3, Ego Storm w/ Malevolent Manifestation.

    At Kiga, you want a power that applies Challenge to the dogs. The added heals from Dependency on Mental Leech keep squishier CCs alive during storms.

    At Kiga, without a puller, you will need Masterful Dodge at rank 3 to help survive until Main Tank gets aggro.

    At Kiga, Ego Storm lets you fire it off then BLOCK.



    Everything else is to your own taste, survivability and such, especially if you plan to CC other content.


    CC is no longer needed at Eidolon.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • bladedragon80bladedragon80 Posts: 146 Arc User
    warcanch wrote: »
    Minimum to have (in my opinion):

    Mental Leech w/ Challenge, Masterful Dodge rank3, Ego Sleep rank3, Ego Storm w/ Malevolent Manifestation.

    At Kiga, you want a power that applies Challenge to the dogs. The added heals from Dependency on Mental Leech keep squishier CCs alive during storms.

    At Kiga, without a puller, you will need Masterful Dodge at rank 3 to help survive until Main Tank gets aggro.

    At Kiga, Ego Storm lets you fire it off then BLOCK.



    Everything else is to your own taste, survivability and such, especially if you plan to CC other content.


    CC is no longer needed at Eidolon.​​

    Thanks for the reply! Sorry it took me a bit to get back to you. What are the current alternatives to the above if any?
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