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Why mass pulling is more efficient in alerts and other content, and why tanks are awesome in alerts.

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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Premade: Everyone is on the same page. Pull everything. Go crazy.

    Randoms: You decide that you take precedence over the rest of the team by pulling everything, be prepared to get flak and/or people quitting the instance. Personally I could give a crap unless the alert becomes more tedious than necessary, but it's still something to keep in mind.

    (Would apply to grabs specifically)

    Again, thank you for your concerns but like I pointed out, over the years I haven't noticed a trend of people giving flak or quitting because of this. They might be less than thrilled if the person pulling everything isn't keeping it aggro'd ( or isn't keeping everyone healed ), but that's why I made sure to point out that people should test their own limits so they know what they can do. Randos aren't very prone to quitting a perfectly successful alert just because other players aren't playing exactly the way they think they should - I should know, I generally am a rando in alerts!
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Posts: 297 Arc User
    Buddy, you're wrong. Bursting everything down within seconds vs gathering mobs, slowly killing them off with an aoe hit cap of 5.. What could possibly be quicker!? This applies to ALL alerts, not just smash. Stop it. You're merely posting for the sake of posting at this point.The reality is: Trash mobs die vs taps, the tougher enemies die vs half charges and by the time you gathered them i killed the entire map.

    No means no, haven't your parents taught you this? You're wrong and it's not the end of the world.
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,021 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    Yes, just like other time you said Haymaker could deal 50k crits in tank role and 95k crits in dps role.
    and how you could get Lance Rain EASY on 11 seconds CD with Gear alone along with other pearls
    Both cases, no evidence! And now this!

    I don't trust a forum edgelord who pull info out of their bumholes without evidence!
    You are the least trustworthy person in the entire forums with your posts and arrogant smug attitude
    694.png​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    Buddy, you're wrong. Bursting everything down within seconds vs gathering mobs, slowly killing them off with an aoe hit cap of 5.
    How about bursting multiple targets down in seconds? Top-tier melee dps is generally in the 8k range, ranged more like 6k; top-tier area dps is likely 4-5k per target, or 20k dps on 5 targets...

    Oh, I forgot another reason to use single target: you're addicted to big numbers and think that 20,000 damage once every 3 seconds is better than 2,000 damage 10x/second.
  • jonesing4jonesing4 Posts: 800 Arc User
    Someone needs to be busted down to Private Wing.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    I think PvPers are best at everything because I am one.

    Don't worry, we know.
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,069 Arc User
    In my Forum Malvanum example, it is useful to have single-target spike for the Might trio, Might Duo, and Firehawk. However, you should still gather them so players that have good AoEs can hit them all at once, such as Power Armor attacks, Force Cascade, etc. Separating them is almost always a bad idea.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • gameongameon Posts: 55 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    No part of this involves "pulling everything all over the map" and certainly has nothing in common with "knocking mobs all over the map". This strategy involves gathering NPCs up in one location, which means you don't have to move much at all to find new targets once your current ones go down. It actually produces the opposite result of what you're talking about, or at least that's what the case has been in my experience. When tanks gather everything up, I just sit there blasting into the crowd without moving at all, like shooting fish in a barrel.

    The trend I'm seeing more is tanks charging in, drawing aggro and immediately running to the next target... with the currently threatened mob(s) running after the tank. Then to the next mob, with both previous mobs now chasing the tank... and so on
    This is great if the tank stops for a moment so dps can kill the mob... too many aren't.

    Chasing a mob that is chasing the tank is what I'm comparing to having to chase knocked targets.
    All is fine if you're in range, but melees have a range too... it's just smaller.

    jennymachx wrote: »
    Premade: Everyone is on the same page. Pull everything. Go crazy.

    Randoms: You decide that you take precedence over the rest of the team by pulling everything, be prepared to get flak and/or people quitting the instance. Personally I could give a crap unless the alert becomes more tedious than necessary, but it's still something to keep in mind.

    (Would apply to grabs specifically)

    That's exactly what happens!
    Sometimes its as little as needing to see if your dps teammates are range or melee or other tanks or healers... but more often Leeroy is taking care of things.
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Again, thank you for your concerns but like I pointed out, over the years I haven't noticed a trend of people giving flak or quitting because of this. They might be less than thrilled if the person pulling everything isn't keeping it aggro'd ( or isn't keeping everyone healed ), but that's why I made sure to point out that people should test their own limits so they know what they can do. Randos aren't very prone to quitting a perfectly successful alert just because other players aren't playing exactly the way they think they should - I should know, I generally am a rando in alerts!
    You don't get flack or quitting because it is generally quicker to run around the map to chase down knocked targets or targets that are dragged away and finish the alert successfully than it is having to:
    quit the alert...
    requeue...
    wait for the queue to pop...
    wait for everyone to hit ready...
    maybe the alert is actually going to load... but the queue will probably break, but let's say it doesn't...
    YAY! Ended up with the same tank dragging everything all over the place again...

    "Less than thrilled" is exactly the feeling when dps can't hit the target... because it beats the alternative.
    Just as people are "less than thrilled" when having to chase knocked targets... they still get killed. Usually, if they don't get stuck, lol.
    Or "less than thrilled" that the whole team is healers, or the whole team is tanks...

    Just because we're "less than thrilled" doesn't mean go nuts. A few Leeroy's are less than thrilling, it happens... but when everyone is one... Rage quit! Or maybe bring back the awesomeness of knocking everything everywhere!
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    gameon wrote: »
    Chasing a mob that is chasing the tank is what I'm comparing to having to chase knocked targets.
    All is fine if you're in range, but melees have a range too... it's just smaller.

    Wait until the tank is done pulling, then start blasting.
    300px-So_Anyway%2C_I_Started_Blasting.jpg
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Wait until the tank is done pulling, then start blasting.
    Congratulations, your tank has now made the alert less efficient, not more.
  • mordray001mordray001 Posts: 218 Arc User
    Well this is amusing... they get on my case for admitting that I'd just wait for the tank to stop wasting our time and then they tell us to wait for the tank to stop wasting our time...
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Wait until the tank is done pulling, then start blasting.
    Congratulations, your tank has now made the alert less efficient, not more.

    No they didn't. It's the dps that's doing the waiting, remember? So the dps is making it less efficient. And they would only do that if they're experiencing frustration with moving during combat, like gameon appears to. I'm not sure most players have that issue.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    mordray001 wrote: »
    Well this is amusing... they get on my case for admitting that I'd just wait for the tank to stop wasting our time and then they tell us to wait for the tank to stop wasting our time...

    The very amusing mistake you made is that you thought I typed "give up trying to contribute" which is very different from "wait for the tank to finish gathering the mobs then start blasting". Easy mistake to make I guess.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    No they didn't. It's the dps that's doing the waiting, remember? So the dps is making it less efficient. And they would only do that if they're experiencing frustration with moving during combat, like gameon appears to. I'm not sure most players have that issue.
    I am. The default control schemes for CO don't make it easy to move and attack at the same time, plus there are powers that are immobile.
  • mordray001mordray001 Posts: 218 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    mordray001 wrote: »
    Well this is amusing... they get on my case for admitting that I'd just wait for the tank to stop wasting our time and then they tell us to wait for the tank to stop wasting our time...

    The very amusing mistake you made is that you thought I typed "give up trying to contribute" which is very different from "wait for the tank to finish gathering the mobs then start blasting". Easy mistake to make I guess.

    Yeah especially when you ignore the bit where I specified that I wait for them to stop or die before I get back to work. Seems real hard to misunderstand what work I'd be referring to in this game.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    spinnytop wrote: »
    No they didn't. It's the dps that's doing the waiting, remember? So the dps is making it less efficient. And they would only do that if they're experiencing frustration with moving during combat, like gameon appears to. I'm not sure most players have that issue.
    I am. The default control schemes for CO don't make it easy to move and attack at the same time, plus there are powers that are immobile.

    Rebinding your keys is a good idea. As for immobile powers, that's the downside of making such a narrowly specialized build. I like to make sure my builds at least have something I can tap-spam while moving in them.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    mordray001 wrote: »
    spinnytop wrote: »
    mordray001 wrote: »
    Well this is amusing... they get on my case for admitting that I'd just wait for the tank to stop wasting our time and then they tell us to wait for the tank to stop wasting our time...

    The very amusing mistake you made is that you thought I typed "give up trying to contribute" which is very different from "wait for the tank to finish gathering the mobs then start blasting". Easy mistake to make I guess.

    Yeah especially when you ignore the bit where I specified that I wait for them to stop or die before I get back to work. Seems real hard to misunderstand what work I'd be referring to in this game.

    Well, if what you meant is "I wait" then it was an odd choice to instead type that you stop contributing.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Rebinding your keys is a good idea.
    Which is relevant to my point how? We were discussing 'most' players, and most people don't make heavy use of binds.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Rebinding your keys is a good idea.
    Which is relevant to my point how? We were discussing 'most' players, and most people don't make heavy use of binds.

    You identified the default control scheme as the source of your problem. The solution is rebinding your keys. It's a pretty common feature in PC games, so I'm sure the majority of players are aware of and use that feature when default schemes are preventing them from doing something as simple as attacking while moving.
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