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Hudson City and Faerie

Hey gang.

I've been scouring around for pertinent lore regarding Hudson City and the world of Faerie in order to create new characters from these locations. I have thoroughly read Thundrax's lore primer and have searched though Bulgarex's relevant threads here.

I fear that without the physical sourcebooks themselves, however, I won't really reach beyond the surface information that is commonly available, such as "Hudson City is a crime/vigilante infested city in New Jersey" and "Faerie is where mythology and fairy tales are real".

While I would like an exhaustive explanation of both areas, I understand that that isn't really possible without the books in question. (I am currently unemployed as well so a luxury purchase like the books is, unfortunately, out of question.)

I guess that what I am asking for is a comprehensive summary of both Hudson City and Faerie. How is day-to-day life in Hudson City? Is its frequent comparison to Gotham City accurate? What is the criminal underground like? Just how much do they frown upon "costumed supers"? Why do they frown upon them at all? As for Fairy, what mythologies and fairy tales are most elaborated on? What is Camelot like? Would certain "Disney stories" exist here, such as those based upon real folk lore or tales?

Thank you very for your time. I hope to some day be able to purchase, at least, Hudson City: The Urban Abyss just for its lore.

Comments

  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,890 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Hey, speanoz! I would be happy to try to address those issues for you when I have time to do so. For now, I just want to mention that if it puts those books within reach of your budget, you can download both of them in PDF form from various online sources -- including Hero Games, the publishers of Champions -- for $9.50 US each:

    https://www.herogames.com/store/product/278-hudson-city-the-urban-abyss-pdf/

    https://www.herogames.com/store/product/304-the-mystic-world-pdf/

    But if that still isn't practical for you, I'll try to respond. :) You probably should know, though, that as far as continuity with the official Champions Universe goes, even though Hudson City nominally exists on Champions Earth, it's treated as though it's in another universe entirely. It's explicitly stated in the Hudson City and Champions Universe source books that the criminals and vigilantes based in Hudson don't interact with characters from the Champions setting, and Champions superheroes and supervillains don't visit Hudson City. Books for one don't even reference the other. There's no in-universe explanation for that, but the real meta-reason is that Hudson City was intended as a base for games in the modern-day action-adventure genre, not the superhero genre. Hero Games didn't want to dilute the distinctive style of each genre by crossing between them. (Whether you agree with that choice or not isn't the point -- it's just what they chose to do.) ;) Cryptic Studios intended to follow through on that distinction when they purchased the IP for "Dark Champions" (as the action-adventure genre line from Hero Games is called), by developing a separate game based in Hudson City. Obviously those plans never panned out.
  • speanozspeanoz Posts: 173 Arc User
    Thanks for the links and for the information thus far. While I would much rather have some tried-and-true physical copies, I may have to consider PDFs for convenience (and affordability......)

    One of the primary reasons I inquire about Hudson City in particular is the occasional mention of it in-game through NPC dialog. (The most immediate example that I can think of consists of two MCPD officers loitering outside of the vehicle building in Renaissance Center). With deliberate mentions in mind, I figure that at least somewhat canonizes the city in Champions Online's own distinct lore.

    I would absolutely love additional information if you're willing and able to devote some time to a curious reader! I already reviewed one of your prior thread responses on imaginal words, too... so I'm at least partially started! :)
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,890 Arc User
    Fair enough. Concerns over Fair Use of the IP would still limit what I'd be comfortable transcribing, though.

    As an alternative for consideration, the above mentioned books can also be bought from the Hero Games store as a package, hard copy plus PDF, for $13.50. But then you of course would also have to pay for shipping.

    https://www.herogames.com/store/product/303-the-mystic-world-bookpdf/

    https://www.herogames.com/store/product/277-hudson-city-the-urban-abyss-bookpdf/
  • speanozspeanoz Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    I love the idea of having a hard copy. I reckon you'd probably agree that having a book in your own two hands beats a PDF any day of the week. :p

    Anyway, thank you for the help you have provided. I suppose my best course of action now would be to try and acquire the PDFs to flesh out my new characters.
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,890 Arc User
    Well, maybe we could try a compromise approach. :) Are there particular things about either of the settings you're inquiring about that would be especially relevant to the characters you want to create or backgrounds you want to flesh out? The least I could do is address those.
  • speanozspeanoz Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Sure, if you don't mind!

    For Hudson itself, I mostly just want to know about what kind of demographic is there. I've made a "vampiric vigilante" character that I imagine originates from Hudson City around the 1940s. Is this an "okay start"?

    As for Faerie, I mostly wish to learn about Camelot and various knight tales. I've made a Joan of Arc character that I like to think came from Faerie. To my understanding, it is not terribly uncommon for Earth's humans to travel to and from the world.

    Last Minute Edit: Would the real life Star-Ledger newspaper be the primary press outlet for Hudson as it is for the actual state of New Jersey?
    Post edited by speanoz on
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,890 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    For your "vampire vigilante" character, I admit I'm uncertain what Hudson's demographic would have to do with whether that would be an "okay start." FWIW p. 16 of the Hudson City book breaks down the ethnicity of the city as 54% white, 21% black, 8% Hispanic, 8% Asian, 9% Other. From what I read of the city's history, during the 1940s the last three of those were probably smaller. If you mean something else, please clarify.

    The 1920s and 1930s were an era of the rise of the distinctive "masked mystery man" fighting crime in Hudson City. During WW II, however, several of those figures eschewed domestic crime fighting to aid in the war effort.

    The Star-Gazette is noted as being one of the two most popular newspapers in HC. The other is the City News. The two have an intense rivalry. Other major papers include the more highbrow, highly respected Hudson City Mirror; the more sensationalistic tabloid Hudson City Sun; and one of America's most popular supermarket tabloids, The National Inquisition, considered by many to be no more than entertaining fiction.

    Given the enduring popularity of the King Arthur legend, I'd be very surprised if some version of Camelot does not persist in Faerie; but according to the official Champions Universe time line, Camelot actually existed on Earth in England between 490-540 ACE, anachronisms and all. One major modern-day Champions villain, Giles de Morphant aka the Black Paladin, was an enemy of the Round Table and particularly Lancelot. (BP is written up in Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains.)

    Beings do occasionally cross between Earth and Faerie, particularly since the mid-Twentieth Century. Several Faerie natives have taken up residence on Earth, such as the swashbuckling Bravo, a member of the renowned Sentinels superhero team; and Vilsimbra, a svartalfar ("Dark Elf") who joined the supernatural villain team, the Devil's Advocates. However, no insignificant number of humans also dwell permanently in Faerie; but the land tends to force mortal inhabitants (and even visitors) to conform to folkloric stereotypes, e.g. hermits, peddlers, knights, woodcutters, and so on.
  • speanozspeanoz Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    It sounds like the Gazette is the fictional analog to the real world Star-Ledger. Convenient that I won't have to change too much! :p

    I recall Black Paladin but for some reason or another I figured the Camelot we know would exist in Faerie. My Joan of Arc character will hail from Faerie and take up a sword after having been inspired from knightly tales. (Whichever may be most relevant, I just figured Camelot was an excellent place to start. Perhaps a tale of any famous lady knights would be better suited instead..?)

    Thank you very much for the information thus far, Bulgarex. You truly are an irreplaceable asset to all of us! :)
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,890 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    You're very welcome, Speanoz. I'm glad you found it helpful. And I thank you for your kind words. :)

    As I indicated earlier, Camelot probably does exist in Faerie today. My own pet theory (which is in no way official) is that it always has existed there, and its presence in post-Roman Britain was a manifestation of the much closer connection between Faerie and Earth in that era, allowing more people to more easily cross between them; which explains the anachronism. (The Mystic World cites other possible crossovers that passed into Earthly legend, such as the voyages of Sinbad.) Another similar possibility would be an alternate Earth which produced a feudal society much earlier than on Champions Earth. Several official Champions characters come from such Terrestrial variants.

    But your character need not turn only to Camelot for inspiration. Whether in Faerie or an alternate Earth, other legendary warrior women could have been her ideal, such as Amazons or Valkyries. The Celtic warrior queen Boudica could be a good template for a less medieval costume style, if desired. Or heck, why not Joan of Arc herself? Dopplegangers of real historical people are known to exist in the Imaginal Realms.

    Multifarian Earth is another possibility. What we would call the past, present, and future coexist there simultaneously, so your character could even have met that world's analogue to Joan.
  • speanozspeanoz Posts: 173 Arc User
    Hmm. That's a lot of possible scenarios to consider. I had considered using other real legendary figures as her inspiration as well.

    I had heard that the P&P Multifaria sort of has a crazy interpretation of time. I also was under the impression that the version of Multifaria in-game is significantly different and more closely represents "Left Earth". These are things beyond my expertise, unfortunately! :)
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,890 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    There is much validity to what you have heard. B)

    To be clear, Multifarian Earth (aka Multifaria or the Multifarian) is Cryptic's creation, wildly extrapolated from a brief incident mentioned in the history of Luther Black in DEMON: Servants Of Darkness. The "crazy interpretation of time" is a Cryptic concept which they never clearly manifested in Champions Online. All eras coexist simultaneously: walking through London, for example, you could pass randomly from the early 21st Century city, to its Victorian version, to Roman Londinium, to its high-tech future megalopolis; and run into Winston Churchill, William Shakespeare, Jack the Ripper, or a reptilian tourist from the planet Mon'da. (Hence deriving its name from "multifarious," meaning "having great diversity or variety.") None of this inconveniences the natives at all, but it can be very disorienting for visitors. In CO you see several Multifarian people who are "reversed" from their Champions Earth counterparts, but Multifarian versions of people may differ from CE versions greatly, slightly, or almost not at all. (And yes, the CU has a true "backworld," Left-Handed Earth.)

    I'm curious as to what you believe Hudson City would provide as a background for your character that you couldn't get from any other American city in the 1940s. But the comparisons to Gotham City are fair. "The Pearl City," as Hudson is nicknamed, is big (2.5 million in the incorporated city proper, which would make it fourth largest in the United States; and over six million in the whole urban region), with a lot of money from shipping, manufacturing, and other corporate business. But while most of its inhabitants are normal folks just trying to make a living, crime is widespread and diverse, and corruption is rampant at all levels of society.

    Hudson City also has a sizeable scattering of "unusual" criminals and vigilantes. While many of them have unique personalities and motivations, as well as distinctive styles and unorthodox gimmicks, none of them have true paranormal abilities. The city's premier vigilante calls himself the Harbinger of Justice, although he's widely known as the "Blue Moon Killer" due to his calling card left behind at the scene of his attacks on crime, a black card with a blue crescent moon on it. Imagine Batman's level of skill and brilliance, married to the Punisher's methods and mindset, and you'd have a fair approximation of the Harbinger. His opposite in some ways is Card Shark, a prominent masked crimelord wielding gimmicked playing cards as weapons, whose extensive criminal operatives in HC use playing cards as their organizing motif.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,893 Arc User

    Fun fact: this character uses the "Dark Champion" title everyone who logged in on Apr 1 got.

    I think the devs for CO have used a lot of concepts even if not the setting itself.
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  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,890 Arc User
    Well, the Dark Champions line is a lot more realistic than Champions, which that doesn't look like. Just using some titles and evocative imagery doesn't really translate to the concepts behind the setting.

    If Hero Games was going to make Dark Champions a wholly distinct game setting from their Champions Universe, for my part I'd have preferred they didn't put them on the same planet. But I do appreciate their explanation, that it's there if a particular game group wants to insert it; and if they'd enjoy mixing Hudson vigilantes and Champions superheroes, hey, they bought the book, they can use it however they prefer. :)
  • speanozspeanoz Posts: 173 Arc User
    Those were dark times.... :p

    Call me silly, but I just like the focus of Hudson City. I had always wanted to design a character with some history revolving around the place. Plus New Jersey is totally fitting for the biggest, baddest city around! Am I right, fellas?! B)

    Thanks again for all the help. I will likely have a completely different topic to discuss down the road at some point!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,893 Arc User
    bulgarex wrote: »
    Well, the Dark Champions line is a lot more realistic than Champions, which that doesn't look like. Just using some titles and evocative imagery doesn't really translate to the concepts behind the setting.

    If Hero Games was going to make Dark Champions a wholly distinct game setting from their Champions Universe, for my part I'd have preferred they didn't put them on the same planet. But I do appreciate their explanation, that it's there if a particular game group wants to insert it; and if they'd enjoy mixing Hudson vigilantes and Champions superheroes, hey, they bought the book, they can use it however they prefer. :)
    Well, in CO you can make a character who's like Dick Tracy if you want. There's a wide variety of firearms as power choices.
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  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,890 Arc User
    Say, instead of a vampire, how about a ghost? Champions has those too, including a couple of ex-cops.
  • speanozspeanoz Posts: 173 Arc User
    I actually already have a Burnside ghost character. I simply HAD to do something with Burnside!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,893 Arc User
    Also I've SEEN a character based on "Nick Knight" from the old TV show "Nick at Night". Which was about a police officer who got turned vampire.
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  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,890 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Um, "Nick at Nite" is retro television shows broadcast overnight on Nickelodeon's channel network. The vampire cop character, who went by the name "Nick Knight," was the lead in a Nineties TV drama titled, Forever Knight.



    To get even more trivial, the series was based on a TV movie pilot from 1989, Nick Knight, starring Rick Springfield in the title role. The movie's style and feel was more punk, as opposed to Forever Knight's classic gothic tone.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,893 Arc User
    Oh, I had an itch in my brain that I was getting something wrong... :/
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  • speanozspeanoz Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Bulgarex's limitless knowledge extends beyond Champions! You heard it here first, folks. :p
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,890 Arc User
    Eh, by the time you get old like me, you've picked up all kinds of mostly-useless information.

    Until you turn senile and forget it all anyway. :'(
  • speanozspeanoz Posts: 173 Arc User
    270jxF5.png

    I realize this is a shameful "thread necro", but I wanted to demonstrate that I'm totally not crazy! :p
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,890 Arc User
    Never doubted you for a second, Speanoz. :) Even the Champions PnP books mention Hudson City two or three times. I think the reference above was intended as an Easter egg.
  • speanozspeanoz Posts: 173 Arc User
    bulgarex wrote: »
    Never doubted you for a second, Speanoz. :) Even the Champions PnP books mention Hudson City two or three times. I think the reference above was intended as an Easter egg.
    Me too! With its rarity, I definitely agree that it's an easter egg.
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