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Conflicting Atlantean lore?

I have much respect for Champions lore and I try to keep it in mind when creating new characters. That said, I created an Atlantean toon, but there seems to be conflicting information in the Champions Universe and Atlantis sourcebook when it comes to their appearance. Which one should I trust? (I know, big problems XD)

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  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,901 Arc User
    Well, right now I'm looking at the physical description of Atlanteans on Champions Universe (Sixth Edition) p. 95, and Hidden Lands p. 15. They are word-for-word identical. Could you please direct me to where the conflicting information you found is located?

    In case you're referring to the Atlantean rebel princess Thalassa/Stingray -- most recently written up and illustrated in Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains -- the fins on parts of her body (which were added by Cryptic Studios for her in-game toon) aren't explicitly explained, but could easily be attributed to the magic she used to augment her physical abilities and grant her additional powers based on aquatic animals.
  • ericrightshow82ericrightshow82 Posts: 468 Arc User
    The other source I was referring to is just called Atlantis by Patrick E. Bradley. It's got some great info, but a lot of it seems to conflict with the latest Champions Universe.
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,901 Arc User
    Ah. TheAtlantis source book by Patrick Bradley is one of my favorites; but it's for an earlier edition of Hero System, and a previous incarnation of the Champions Universe than the current official one. Bradley's book inspired the current Atlantis in many ways, but also differs from it significantly. The info in Champions Universe and Hidden Lands is the up-to-date version.
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,901 Arc User
    To be more specific, Hidden Lands contains a fairly lengthy chapter on modern-day Atlantis as it pertains to the version of the Champions Universe that CO is based on. It has quite a few similarities to Bradley's fine book, but is a little less detailed.

    Hidden Lands also includes substantial chapters on the Empyreans and their city of Arcadia; Lemuria (pre-civil war); and shorter chapters on the underground city of Shamballah (and its evil counterpart, Agharti); the Well of Worlds in Australia; Sunday Pond, center of weirdness in the state of Maine; and Gornyj Sver ("Beast Mountain"), original home of the Beast-Men/Manimals.
  • ericrightshow82ericrightshow82 Posts: 468 Arc User
    Awesome, thank you!
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,901 Arc User
    edited February 9
    FYI, Hero Games published a source book for their fantasy game line, The Atlantean Age, set in the same universe but during the antediluvian era when the Atlanteans were the dominant power on Earth. It describes many aspects of their society and the territories they ruled, as well as their diverse and mighty magic; plus their major rival nations, notably the Empire of Lemuria; and the races, creatures, and outstanding individuals extant during this age.
    Post edited by bulgarex on
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 3,785 Arc User
    bulgarex wrote: »
    and shorter chapters on the underground city of Shamballah (and its evil counterpart, Agharti)\/quote]

    I didn't know it had underground worlds. One of the hero/villains in my way old PNP campaign was Prince Keerg the Subearther, ruler of all Subterranea. Obvious Namor homage. The names of all the NPCs were names of Greek cities and people spelled backwards.
    JwLmWoa.png
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  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,901 Arc User
    There's been no indication in Champions books that present-day Champions Earth has underground spaces extensive enough to be called "worlds" (although there's plenty of past precedent -- see below). However, there are a few examples of civilizations who have made a home for themselves beneath the surface. Shamballah and Agharti, mentioned earlier, are small cities of great mystic martial artists -- the first good, the second evil -- hidden beneath Mount Everest in the Himalayas. In the jungles of the Congo is a large cavern complex, the "Kingdom of the Apes," inhabited by gorillas mutated to sapience several centuries ago by radiation from a meteorite.

    Beneath the underwater domed city of Lemuria, their sub-human slaves, the "Mole-Men," have dug out a vast network of tunnels and warrens over the past forty thousand years. The full extent of those delvings is unknown even to the Lemurians, but the Mole-Men number at least in the thousands, and possibly tens of thousands. A small band of Mole-Men have rejected their Lemurian overlords, and dwell in a far corner of the tunnels under their chosen leader, "King Mole."

    (The Mole-Men and all of Lemuria are thoroughly written up in Hidden Lands, which also details Shamballah and Agharti. The Kingdom of the Apes is briefly described in Champions Universe: News Of The World.)

    OTOH in the past the depths of the Earth most definitely contained very large inhabited areas. During the Turakian Age (origin of Takofanes) the known world was riddled with complexes of caverns, extending over a mile deep and sometimes stretching for hundreds of miles below the surface. Known as the Sunless Realms, these caverns were home to many subterranean creatures, races, and civilizations. They're an analogue to the "Underdark" that's an element of settings for the Dungeons and Dragons game, just as that past era of the CU was designed to resemble D&D fantasy generally. (The Sunless Realms are described, but not mapped, in The Turakian Age source book.)

    Inner-Earth is a small Hero Games setting book which describes an underground "lost world" written for the company's "pulp" game line, i.e. set in the 1920s-30s, and evocative of settings like Edgar Rice Burroughs' Pellucidar. Inner-Earth is a group of immense linked caverns, at least a mile from floor to ceiling, "many miles" beneath the surface, extending from northern South America to northern Europe. Large regions of it receive sunlight refracted through a complex of quartz crystals emerging it out-of-the-way locations on the surface. In Lost Worlds tradition, Inner-Earth is home to animal species extinct above ground, as well as defunct human (and non-human) civilizations.

    Where Inner-Earth fits to present-day Champions Earth is unclear. The I-E PDF makes several references to the larger CU, implying they're the same universe. It's unlikely that modern science wouldn't have detected something so vast, but it isn't mentioned in Champions books. It's possible that some cataclysm brought an end to Inner-Earth before the current date. OTOH Champions books may just ignore it, as they do Hudson City, because while technically on the same planet, those locations were written for other game lines published by Hero Games. But in either case, the Inner-Earth book does suggest that other such caverns not directly connected to the main complex could exist.

    Bottom line: There's more than enough precedent to fit Prince Keerg's Subterranea into the Champions Universe. :+1:
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,892 Arc User
    edited February 11
    Maybe it's like DC's Skartaris? It's actually a different plane altogether(thought not a parallel universe) that can be accessed via naturally occurring portals. It's "subterranean" in that all the naturally occurring portals are underground somewhere.
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  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,901 Arc User
    edited February 11
    That would easily be doable in this setting. "The Kingdom of the Saguenay," domain of the master villain Baron Nihil (see Champions Villains Vol. 1), is a "pocket dimension," a relatively small space resembling Earth and accessible from it via dimensional portal. It's probably an "Astral Cyst," formed out of the Astral Plane spontaneously or deliberately. These can have very distinctive environments, and if deliberately created can be designed to suit their maker's desire. Takofanes created several of them where he houses his servants and other resources.
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