Two Earth/Force builds

wtbcreativity · October 2019

Hey, folks. I haven't played a Force character since the Unleashed AT was released and I haven't touched Earth since... well, ever. So I thought I would try to do something new and staple the two together like a mad scientist try to make a build that used both. I wound up making one (mostly) CC build and one DPS build while trying to make these two powersets fit together. I can't tell if this has gone horribly wrong or not, so here I am asking for build advice. Thanks in advance!

Since these are roughly hacked together builds I'm doing more for fun than anything else, assume Cosmics and the like are off the table. I would still like to improve my character building skills and make these as effective as possible given the (mostly-)two-powerset restriction, though.

Link: Earth/Force CC - Freeform (Support)
v3.41:33

I wanted to stay in Earth/Force as much as possible, but I had to break my own rule basically instantly because I forgot Containment Field has (had? Is it gone now?) that -50% damage taken thing that's supremely annoying in group content. I would still strongly prefer to stay with those two sets if at all possible, but I understand if that's not reasonable.

I'm not sure about the passive and toggle. Isn't Manipulator kind of unnecessary? But it scales with Presence and I should be able to trigger it fairly regularly with Cave In / Fault Line (I think?) so I wound up taking it over Concentration. An earlier draft of this one had AoAC instead of AoPM because fewer people run it, but I didn't know if it was worth keeping just for that.

This is definitely my first pick if it winds up being a good idea. There are so few MMOs that allow a dedicated CC character anymore, and it would be nice to use something new instead of my usual fallbacks of Celestial or Telepathy.

Link: Earth/Force DPS - Freeform (Ranged Damage)
v3.41:33

Less to say about this one. Have I messed it up too badly? Pure DPS builds aren't my specialty. Does Energy Refraction proc often enough to make it a reliable Energy Form for Force Cascade? Should I swap Tremor since I can already AoE spread Stagger with Stone Shot?

flowcyto · October 2019

Ah, and I thought I was done dealing w/ Force for tonight XD

Anyways, both builds are a bit messy, but at least you saw how bad Force holds can be. I assume the first build isn't trying to CC specifically for cosmics, as that takes it's own committed build. I guess I should ask what you intend to do w/ it, as the type of content and/or 'role' focus (in this case, whether it's more of a CC focus or a healing focus) will dictate how to revise the build.

For the dps build: I see some attack redundancy, but I guess I don't fully know how you plan to use each attack, and/or what 'rotation' you have planned. I would say that you generally can pass on Force Eruption's Grav Polarity; the well's dmg bonus is small and affected by diminishing returns (and you have to charge a weak AoE and stand in the well for it anyways). You also would generally want to rank any short-cd heal (like ERush) that you end up taking. Night Warrior is also better than Quarry for builds w/ charged attacks. Ego SSS also isn't really adding that much to the build atm (unless you just want more annoying knock strength, I guess).

Hurl in Might is Earth-like and quite good for FC builds atm, since it can debuff for Crushing at 100ft w/ the right advs, so that's a bit of a missed opportunity here. Power Conversion could also greatly help for FC builds, instead of relying on random procs from weak energy builders (ie. the Energy Refraction adv).

Anyways, if you are looking for an 'Earth' + Force rotation w/ FC, then you could do something like Hurl -> Stone Shot -> FC (+Power Conversion). Maybe you can keep Cave In if you still want the single-target stun option, and/or keep something like Tremor or Fault Line for a non-scatter knocking AoE.

wtbcreativity · October 2019

flowcyto wrote: »

Ah, and I thought I was done dealing w/ Force for tonight XD

Heh heh, sorry.

Anyways, both builds are a bit messy, but at least you saw how bad Force holds can be. I assume the first build isn't trying to CC specifically for cosmics, as that takes it's own committed build. I guess I should ask what you intend to do w/ it, as the type of content and/or 'role' focus (in this case, whether it's more of a CC focus or a healing focus) will dictate how to revise the build.

Definitely not Cosmics! Probably just Alerts. I wanted that build to have more of a CC focus, but I really like Sentinel Mastery and I figured it was a waste to take the Sentinel tree just for that. As is, though, it's not much of a healing build I think? It's just Protection Field for some sustain and a rez.

Ego SSS also isn't really adding that much to the build atm (unless you just want more annoying knock strength, I guess).

That was me completely forgetting that Ego does that. I don't normally have ranged knocks in any of my builds.

Anyway, thanks for all the great advice. Here's the first revision of the DPS build:
Earth/Force DPS - Freeform (Ranged Damage)
v3.41:33

flowcyto · October 2019

The problem is that hold-based CC is kinda weak in CO for most content, esp since most of it breaks early to inc dmg (and other players will likely do that to your held targets), and it's often faster to just kill/burst enemies down than devote to CC'ing them. Stuns are still decent if you want to focus on that content, though, since they don't break early to inc dmg. Afaik, Force has no real stuns, and Earth only has one (via a combo w/ a long charged attack)- so your parameters are kinda limiting you here. Now, knocks are their own form of CC (though they won't proc Manip), so you can make a good CC build for trash just mixing in stuns w/ knocks (pref not scattering KBs, though), but I'd suggest outsourcing to some other sets for stuns.

Holds can still be okay for their ability to proc spec-related debuffs, though that's more about boosting ally performance than CC'ing the targets (say, if you wanted to debuff a boss). So, you could still keep a paralyze around if you want to be able to proc stuff like Vuln or Trapped (since stuns can't proc those). There aren't many holds that work even when tapped (TP has two of them- Sleep and MStorm; there's Ego Storm w/ adv too, if you count that), but I suppose you could just settle on a normal charged paralyze, like Ego Hold (its kinda Force-like, w/o the downsides of Containment Field).

Here's an Earth controller dps/CC build, that has a bit off Force-like stuff added in:

(Unnamed Build) - Freeform (Ranged Damage)
v3.41:33

Super Stats
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Witch (Con: 10, Int: 8, Pre: 10, Rec: 10)
Level 6: Diplomatic (Int: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 9: Lasting Impression (Pre: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Negotiator (Int: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 15: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 21: Healthy Mind (Con: 5, Int: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Force Bolts
Level 1: Stone Shot (Rank 2, Shard Burst)
Level 6: Tremor (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Quarry (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Manipulator
Level 14: Cave In (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Telekinetic Maelstrom (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 26: Ego Hold
Level 29: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 32: Hurl (Hard Fall, Didn't See That Coming)
Level 35: Force Shield (Rank 2)
Level 38:
Adv. Points: 32/36

Travel Powers
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations
Presence: Repurpose (3/3)
Presence: Dominion (2/2)
Presence: Moment of Glory (2/3)
Presence: Force of Will (1/2)
Presence: Vulnerability (2/2)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (2/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Sentinel: Genesis (1/2)
Overseer: Administer (3/3)
Overseer: Ruthless (2/2)
Overseer: Impact (2/2)
Overseer: Trapped (3/3)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

Being a bit more dps-oriented means your CC won't be as strong, but you should still have very good stun times for trash (esp w/ Manip stacked), can mix in AoE knocks w/ Tremor, can still debuff mobs, and can do semi-decent dps to boot. You'll also have decent bonus healing if you want to stick an ally heal in there or w/e (also means your Convictions will heal you for a good amount). I added TK Maelstrom to help you proc Manip in AoE, and for the large AoE stun. The build's main single-target rotation is to debuff Crushing dmg w/ Hurl, put up Stagger w/ Stone Shot, and then use Cave In as your main filler while refreshing Stagger w/ Stone Shot, using Hurl to help roll MSA, and possibly throwing in Ego Hold for spec debuffs. For AoE, you can basically mix any of your attacks and holds, since they could all help in various ways, depending on the situation (ofc, keep in mind you need Stagger + Cave In, Ego Hold, and/or TK Maelstrom to proc Manip). Gears mostly for Pres and Int, w/ a bit of Con.

I'll admit the playstyle could get a bit cluttered for this build, somewhat due to needing enough CC-related powers, but maybe that will make it more fun. *shrug*

--

Anyways, the DPS build is getting there. I'd still prob tweak it a bit. You can keep it Int-focused, but then you prob want MSA as the EU if using Hurl (it's also an easy MSA proc, ofc). I'd prob SS End so you have strong energy reserves for FC, but you can nab some Dex on the side if your energy is fine enough:

Earth/Force DPS - Freeform (Ranged Damage)
v3.41:33

Super Stats
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Endurance (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Glacier (Dex: 8, Con: 10, Int: 10, End: 10)
Level 6: Investigator (Int: 5, End: 5)
Level 9: Healthy Mind (Con: 5, Int: 5)
Level 12: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Coordinated (Dex: 5, Int: 5)
Level 18: Accurate (Dex: 5, End: 5)
Level 21: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Power Bolts
Level 1: Stone Shot (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Concentration
Level 8: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 17: Hurl (Hard Fall, Didn't See That Coming)
Level 20: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Power Conversion (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Tremor (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Indestructible
Level 32: Force Shield (Rank 2)
Level 35: Lock N Load (Rank 2)
Level 38: Implosion Engine
Adv. Points: 34/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Flight
Level 35: Superspeed (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations
Intelligence: Preparation (2/2)
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Avenger: Ruthless (2/2)
Avenger: Round 'em Up (3/3)
Avenger: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Avenger: Preemptive Strike (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Mastery: Intelligence Mastery (1/1)

Again, main boss rotation is just Hurl -> charge Stone Shot -> charge FC, repeat (and keep Power Conversion on cd). I put Tremor in there just for a non-scattering AoE option that can still CC/knock, if you don't want to disrupt trash w/ FC. Gears mostly for Int, w/ some Con and End/Dex.

wtbcreativity · October 2019

flowcyto wrote: »

I'll admit the playstyle could get a bit cluttered for this build, somewhat due to needing enough CC-related powers, but maybe that will make it more fun. *shrug*

Well, I knew it was going to be messy when I decided on the powersets for this.

The problem is that hold-based CC is kinda weak in CO for most content, esp since most of it breaks early to inc dmg (and other players will likely do that to your held targets), and it's often faster to just kill/burst enemies down than devote to CC'ing them. <snip> Holds can still be okay for their ability to proc spec-related debuffs, though that's more about boosting ally performance than CC'ing the targets (say, if you wanted to debuff a boss). So, you could still keep a paralyze around if you want to be able to proc stuff like Vuln or Trapped (since stuns can't proc those).

Yeah, I get you. I've only been playing on-and-off since 2012, but I can't think of a time where hold CC was really needed or useful outside of certain special cases? (Then again, I have serious alt-itis so I never tackled high-end content very often.) It's why I only had the one paralyze in my first draft build.

Anyway, thanks again for all the help! It's going to be an interesting ride if nothing else.

flowcyto · October 2019

CC builds are used in a few cosmic fights, but they are pretty specialized for that content, and can take a lot of training for those fights. I assume you're more of a casual player, though, so then it's prob better to just focus on stuns and knocks to debilitate trash in stuff like Alerts. A good trash mob CC'er can make such content much easier for the rest of the team, and still provide some useful debuffs for bosses that can't be CC'd.

Two Earth/Force builds

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