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What Do You Think: Death Rattle

Allrighty, folks, our first Serial Story is complete! Let us know what you thought in this thread!

Comments

  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 4,632 Arc User
    Has promise since it seems to be leading to something bigger down the line. The missions might be made tougher for higher lvl characters. I wish we could do all 4 missions in one day, if we like.
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  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 2,701 Cryptic Developer
    edited August 2019
    Once you complete a mission, it becomes repeatable 24 hours later.

    If you have completed the missions, you can replay them all in one day. The timer is only on the first playthrough. They do have to be replayed in sequence.
  • deadman20deadman20 Posts: 1,528 Arc User
    The missions were neat. We were left with a bit of a cliffhanger at the end, hopefully keeping something open for us to continue off of when more come out. I liked the enemies the most, particularly the new attacks that came our way. Makes me hope that some factions get more permanent updates to their movesets in the future.​​
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  • ratchetman2ratchetman2 Posts: 27 Arc User
    Story was nice, all the assets being reused was a bit sad (Like the ending just being the basic moon hideout, i get why y'all are doing it that way but it's just something to note). Hoping y'all manage to get a bigger budget from the people up above for the next one.

    Also two things:
    The moon hideout ending has a lot of glitches with both the doors and people vanishing through walls, hopefully that'll be fixed soon.

    And if the moon hideout's secondary rooms are good enough for a mission with lots of NPC's why can't we access them in normal hideout form? we've all been looking forward to these expansions being available for ages and it being dangled in our face like this was just kind of upsetting.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,908 Arc User
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Once you complete a mission, it becomes repeatable 24 hours later.

    If you have completed the missions, you can replay them all in one day. The timer is only on the first playthrough. They do have to be replayed in sequence.
    Why though? Comic series are like BAM! Part TWO! PLAY IT NOW!
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  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,408 Arc User
    it was fine, time gap limitations are dumb though.
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  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    Except for how infuriatingly buggy the last area is, this was decent. That moon base geometry is broken AF.​​
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,039 Arc User
    It doesn't really feel 'done', as we get no indication of who is about to rise (rework of Lemurian Invasion?)
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,908 Arc User
    It doesn't really feel 'done', as we get no indication of who is about to rise (rework of Lemurian Invasion?)
    Kael made a comment in the other thread that seemed to indicate this is just the start.
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  • nacito#6758 nacito Posts: 902 Arc User
    if this is just the start then it was a really lazy one, hey, if you're leading to something like... big, make a better narrative, if it's all that there's to it, better next thing have a better story driven by something that makes sense
    drill in the moon... really?
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  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 718 Arc User
    I assume it's leading up to the rework, and reactivation of destroyer in the Qzone, I guess it was all right; would much rather have end game stuff though.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,908 Arc User
    The secondaries may not be useful for characters with endgame gear, but they're good for characters that are new.

    I don't think this is about rezing Shadow D. I'm actually starting to think it's someone like Andrith the Golden.
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  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,671 Arc User
    I'm quite underwhelmed with it. I was expecting that it would lead to at least a Legendary Boss like Steel Crusade. Also disappointed that the Part 4 had such bugs and devs patched it as such. But that's nothing new. Ladyhawke seems real squishy as a sidekick in Part 4. She died like 2 times during my run.

    Seeing all these purple stuff at the end makes me think it hints Eido's return. Can't wait how he will bug out this time! XD
    To be honest, I hope it's not Eido. Why not use other big time villains instead of just purple edgelord defender? Oh, and less purple stuff would be GREAT! Will already have Nightmare Invasion and QWZ for the purple eyesore...
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  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 4,632 Arc User
    Worst part about the secondaries is that we can't sell them. They aren't useful to a well-geared lvl 40. They end up just being junk to be discarded.
    The secondaries may not be useful for characters with endgame gear, but they're good for characters that are new.

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  • wingedkagoutiwingedkagouti Posts: 515 Arc User
    It feels unfinished. In a "We have these assets that aren't used much, let's use them for something" way. It was still neat to go inside the side rooms of the Moon Base Hideout without glitching.

    Also, the delay timer between missions is obnoxious at best. I have no desire to replay the missions in their current state, so the timer going away on a replay is not a factor to me.
  • tenebriswolftenebriswolf Posts: 53 Arc User
    Underwhelming. Feels too much like another "go there, kill a bunch of mobs" thing, and I couldn't get much involved in the story, though I admit some efforts were put into that with the short cutscenes and voices. I think more cutscenes would help in general to get the players to care about the story a bit more. Long story short, lot of potential, doesn't really deliver.
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  • englishdamselenglishdamsel Posts: 11 Arc User
    Basically, it was nice to get some new storyline stuff. Part 1 was okay but very short. Part 2 was the most poorly implemented - at least at initial launch when everybody was going for the pearls, people being able to steal pearls while you were fighting the mobs, etc.

    It's hard to discuss the finale right now with it being so buggy. It seems like it'll be overly difficult for some builds (the final boss, and the sorcerers(?) standing by the crystals may need another look in terms of damage output). Ladyhawke just didn't seem to make a difference whether she was there or not.

    Got to be said, I finished part 4 without knowing that was supposed to be the actual ending. Maybe hyped-up new content shouldn't end on a vague cliffhanger?
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    Personal stand point, was glad it didn't deal with another Qliphoth arc like it could have. We've had so many stories centered around Qliphoth in Champions it has become a bit infuriating.

    As for how it went, it was kind of slow. The first two missions didn't really do much, and felt like little door stops at best. Honestly part 1 and 2 could have been combined into a meatier portion instead of separated out over the course of two weeks. Part 3 was kind of a bog standard smash em up mission, with part 4 introducing what was really going on. It was nice to have something that was dealing with something other than Qliphoth, it felt like it was a retread of the Lemurian Invasion that was a prelude to what would eventually be turned into the Rampage we have now, albeit with more interest and more interesting sounding characters.

    I honestly hope this is leading to things like more group dungeons and content on the level of TA for those of us who want to see more group content on that scale but not the global cluster of cosmic raids without the precision of the proper raid formation.

    But my main concern is this again feels like retreading old ground that has been touched already. While I understand the limitations the dev team is under, there are so many plot threads still dangling in the wind that have yet to be addressed. For instance, Talisman in the Atomic Wasteland has not been touched back on since she left the irradiates to their own demise in the Atomic Wasteland (ten years ago). The way this arc started with the whole magic intrigue I was so hoping the end would reveal Talisman has returned and we might see some interaction between Witchcraft and Talisman and their family squabble.

    We have also still not seen a culmination or result of what is going on with Doctor Destroyer. While I will never think any single dungeon or raid would do a a proper Doctor Destroyer fight justice, we were suppose to have gone to Destruga to at least stop whatever mad plot was going on, hence the entire Sky Command event that would later be turned into a rampage as well.

    Then there is just the simple fact that Champions lore is rich with dozens of books to draw upon and over thirty years of lore to look at, that something new can be injected of a terrestrial sense. Old characters that have not seen use since their introduction (Menton for example and a proper fight with the worlds most powerful mentalist and maybe his sister Mentella?), let alone new ones that are unknown in the history of Champions. While I understand this is a test bed to inject new content in bite sized chunks, I am hoping the dev team is not only planning to add something that would help keep long term players invested, like more elder game content, but also inject much needed missing lore and characters from the actual Champions universe into the game.

    While I have no hopes for a fully fleshed out new zone or Millennium City being properly expanded to encompass other locations within the city that would be quite a bit more interesting than what we have, I would certainly hope for more dungeon level content, or maybe adding in dungeon level content that would make players want to level up through the game and group up instead of just using alerts.
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  • nyghtshroude#9048 nyghtshroude Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    I liked it in general. Felt like the third mission was definitely harder than the first two. Like the difficulty surprisingly jumps and the final mission had some issues as mentioned. Overall, it was fun.

    If you want an idea for the next mission, look at my thread here - https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/1213701/new-event-millennium-city-gang-war

    It's time give a break from magic being the source of the evil. Imagine aliens from another planet who want to include Earth as part of their dark empire and are looking for a few villains to help them out by giving Millennium City and Vibora Bay gangs some alien weapons. What starts off as a gang war in Millennium City as well as a bit of Vibora becomes a galactic affair including a new final mission where aliens attack the Earth and you must defend it! Even work with old enemies for the sake of the planet!

    It's a story that starts off like "The Warriors" but ends up "Independence Day."


    If there's a 3rd serial, how about this - A surge of New Shadows and Dogz activity has concerned UNTIL. Black Mask reports there are increased numbers of New Shadows and Dogz gang that seem to be expanding their ranks. UNTIL has reached out to Europe and called on an elite monster hunter for help. Someone who fights supernatural enemies regularly.

    - New Archetypes.

    The Supernatural Slayer

    The Supernatural Slayer - Freeform (Any / Multiple)

    Link to this build: https://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm?v=32&n=The Supernatural Slayer&d=15370b537PNI060000800089007F00N90075007G009G00KA0000000000000000000000000000020000000010000000000&e=
    v3.34:32

    Super Stats
    Level 6: Ego (Primary)
    Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents
    Level 1: The Scourge (Con: 10, Ego: 10, Rec: 10, End: 8)
    Level 6: Indomintable (Ego: 8)
    Level 9: Enduring (Con: 8)
    Level 12: Tireless (Rec: 8)
    Level 15: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
    Level 18: Ascetic (Con: 5, Ego: 5)
    Level 21: Shooter (Dex: 5, Ego: 5)

    Powers
    Level 1: Gunslinger
    Level 1: Bullet Hail
    Level 6: Concentration
    Level 8: Regeneration
    Level 11: Ricochet Throw
    Level 14: Molecular Self-Assembly
    Level 17: Chest Beam
    Level 20: Expulse
    Level 23: Dragon's Wrath (if it works)

    That's up to level 20 at least to act as a base. I gave it regeneration because they're either got a magic amulet that heals them or they are just naturally great healers (like say Buffy). The chest beam and expulse powers tap into the idea of the protective amulet again and a reference to something a Belmont might use in Castlevania.

    But what if you are a repentant vampire or werewolf? A remorseful hunter? A conflicted creature of darkness?

    The Rejected

    The name of the Archetype is a work in progress. I know how edgy it sounds. ;)

    Link to this build: https://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm?v=32&n=The Rejected&d=11370M000000000000N000N600N900NG00ND00NF00NP00JK00NL000000000000000000000000020000000010000000000&e=
    v3.34:32

    Super Stats
    Level 6: Strength (Primary)
    Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents
    Level 1: The Savage (Str: 10, Dex: 8, Con: 10, Rec: 10)
    Level 6:
    Level 9:
    Level 12:
    Level 15:
    Level 18:
    Level 21:

    Powers
    Level 1: Bestial Fury
    Level 1: Frenzy
    Level 6: Regeneration
    Level 8: Thrash
    Level 11: Pounce
    Level 14: Supernatural Power
    Level 17: Massacre
    Level 20: Haymaker
    Level 23: Howl

    Once again I give you a sample of the powers I can see for this, plus another:

    New Power - Monstrous Form: Transform temporarily into a terrible beast. Using models already in the game including the New Shadows Bloodgorger monster bat creature and the Dogz fully transformed werewolf form (the Ulfedhnar or whatever it's called) as samples, the form you become increases your strength by 20.
    Post edited by nyghtshroude#9048 on
  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,556 Arc User
    Keep in mind I didn't start this story line since it's release with a lot of optimism and didn't gave in to the Hype!
    I'm still not very impressed, but credit where credits due, there are a lot of potential here so trying to be positive but Underwhelming is perhaps the best term to describe it! PLEASE DON'T LET THIS DISCOURAGE YOU
    What I enjoyed :+1:
    +New story related content
    +Voice Acting! A LOT of voice acting, both from allies and enemies! This gives a lot of personality!
    +Introducing New items Rewards for completing the quests, via mission related story and NOT soulless endgame vendors! Rewards for completing story quests! THAT'S GOOD DESIGN! Keep it up :+1:
    +The use of underrepresentation villain faction, Cobra Lords
    +The boss of the ARC has a nice combination of powers, It caught me off guard when he start using Ultimate powers
    +Usage of existing barely used resources, I LOVE that the Space Station hideout is being used! Finally some spotlight for this unique map
    +I really enjoyed mission 3 and 4, especially 4
    +More SCR sources
    +The Solo difficulty content is pretty good! It's a break from the constant engame and OM event bosses that require multiple players


    I enjoyed some parts but there are also flaws that need room for improment for future content
    however It suffers from poor design choices
    What I disliked :-1:
    -Time Pandering fetch quest (especially 1 and 2) why do I have to travel all across westside to downtown every time to get the next quest!? And why can't i just pick them all on the same time once I complete them and want to do them again 24 hours later? (once again 1 and 2 take place in the SAME area)
    -The Time Gap inbetween episodes really didn't help for missions 1-2, it didn't do any favors,
    But I understand that there is need for the mission to be designed and Voice lines to be recorded
    -I couldn't help myself but keep comparing this with Mechanon's mission line! Mechanon's had better aesthetics
    -The Magic resistance Cores and Secondary Gear are underwelming rewards
    -The Ending was very Anticlimactic
    -I dislike mission 2, PART 1 and 2 should have been combined
    -A LOT OF BUGS on live which would be avoided if the missions were more than 12 hours in PTS :|


    Do I want to see more missions like this? ABSOLUTELY but there are some design changes to be made
    This has a lot of potential! It adds personality to the game! I would be very happy if we got more mini-story ark missions like this every 3-4 weeks
    It needs a better more interesting mission design. It has a lot of potential! This entire game is a treasure trove of potential

    Some people complained that this is yet another MAGIC-related content and were let down when they saw Cobra Lords using magic! I don't mind at all

    My wish is something to be released related with Roin'esh from Whiteout! You can do a lot with shapeshifter aliens, especially since whiteout Ended with stinger (The... End?)
    THEY LIVE AMONG US!​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point
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  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,254 Arc User
    I've only completed Part One, which is a bit tedious with its needless cross-city slog from Westside to the City Centre Lab (why not use Stone Labs, which is in the game lore, near the mission and in an area appropriate for all level toons?).

    To be honest drip-fed missions of this kind are the sort of thing the game should have been doing five years ago, I don't really log in frequently enough any more to be awaiting the next instalment of a series. I tend to forget which character I ran Part 1 on, and go and do something else (like waiting an eternity for an alert queue to complete, as the game population is miniscule since COH reappeared).

    I appreciate the new content and the effort that's gone into it, but it's probably a little too late. And if it leads to some TA type lair then what's the point? We have enough of those lying abandoned already.
  • phasestarphasestar Posts: 81 Arc User
    My $.02...

    Things I loved about Death Rattle

    #1 - New Content! I love the fact that you are adding new content, period. Please keep it up.
    #2 - Some updates to the Cobra Lords, some custom mission maps and a use of the moon base for a mission! That together with the voice overs made this feel like a "premium" story arc.
    #3 - Great rewards, thematic for the story arc.
    #4 - Missions were a decent challenge and a mix of different mission types.
    #5 - The serialized format is great as a way to periodically add to the game and feature the new missions as they are added. Over the course of a year, this could add up to a really nice addition to the game content-wise if you can keep it up.
    #6 - The story and writing were good overall. I like Ladyhawke and the Villains. Some improvements could be made though as I felt the ending was a bit incomplete and there are some gaps that probably should be filled in within this chapter. See below for those suggestions.

    Things I would like to improve about Death Rattle

    #7 - I'm still not entirely clear why the Lemurians needed the Cobra Lords, why the matter-energy converter was necessary, etc. I have pretty good guesses on all these which are probably right, but it would have been nice for the post-mission exposition to more clearly tie these up and explain exactly what happened to the player. For example, it seems that they used the science-based matter-energy converter somehow to create a magical portal to the moon base, but in the base there also appear to be lemurian drilling devices that have drilled into it from below. So there were already Lemurians on the moon underground? I would have liked for this to be better explained. Also, for the moon prison, would be great if some of the UNTIL folks at the end say something about who was being kept there and why instead of going about their business again like nothing happened. It felt like I should have been able to get more information to help wrap up this chapter there, but was prevented from doing it. I would think UNTIL would not have a special moon prison for just one super-villain without a good reason and after saving the folks there, they would say more about who we need to go recapture now.
    #8 - I'm not clear on why it was called Death Rattle. I understand we ended on a cliffhanger, still not knowing the full story or where it was going, but I think the name of this chapter needed to be better connected to the four part story. Maybe Death Rattle will make more sense as we go on, but I'd say each part should focus on that part. Perhaps this one could have been called Moonrise or something like that?
    #9 - The bugs on the final mission. First time I tried to complete it, I could not. The second time, after this morning's update, I still had one Lemurian stuck outside the main dome that I could not defeat until I thought to move the blast shield which somehow shunted him back inside. Perhaps the requirement to defeat all the Lemurians should be relaxed a bit until this is fully resolved?

    Would I like to see more of this? Heck yes. Would like to see you continue the serialized content and keep all the good stuff while improving the things that missed the mark a bit. Also expand to include more villains and supervillains of various types and origins. Good work, please keep it up!



  • phasestar wrote: »
    My $.02...

    Things I loved about Death Rattle

    #1 - New Content! I love the fact that you are adding new content, period. Please keep it up.
    #2 - Some updates to the Cobra Lords, some custom mission maps and a use of the moon base for a mission! That together with the voice overs made this feel like a "premium" story arc.
    #3 - Great rewards, thematic for the story arc.
    #4 - Missions were a decent challenge and a mix of different mission types.
    #5 - The serialized format is great as a way to periodically add to the game and feature the new missions as they are added. Over the course of a year, this could add up to a really nice addition to the game content-wise if you can keep it up.
    #6 - The story and writing were good overall. I like Ladyhawke and the Villains. Some improvements could be made though as I felt the ending was a bit incomplete and there are some gaps that probably should be filled in within this chapter. See below for those suggestions.

    Things I would like to improve about Death Rattle

    #7 - I'm still not entirely clear why the Lemurians needed the Cobra Lords, why the matter-energy converter was necessary, etc. I have pretty good guesses on all these which are probably right, but it would have been nice for the post-mission exposition to more clearly tie these up and explain exactly what happened to the player. For example, it seems that they used the science-based matter-energy converter somehow to create a magical portal to the moon base, but in the base there also appear to be lemurian drilling devices that have drilled into it from below. So there were already Lemurians on the moon underground? I would have liked for this to be better explained. Also, for the moon prison, would be great if some of the UNTIL folks at the end say something about who was being kept there and why instead of going about their business again like nothing happened. It felt like I should have been able to get more information to help wrap up this chapter there, but was prevented from doing it. I would think UNTIL would not have a special moon prison for just one super-villain without a good reason and after saving the folks there, they would say more about who we need to go recapture now.
    #8 - I'm not clear on why it was called Death Rattle. I understand we ended on a cliffhanger, still not knowing the full story or where it was going, but I think the name of this chapter needed to be better connected to the four part story. Maybe Death Rattle will make more sense as we go on, but I'd say each part should focus on that part. Perhaps this one could have been called Moonrise or something like that?
    #9 - The bugs on the final mission. First time I tried to complete it, I could not. The second time, after this morning's update, I still had one Lemurian stuck outside the main dome that I could not defeat until I thought to move the blast shield which somehow shunted him back inside. Perhaps the requirement to defeat all the Lemurians should be relaxed a bit until this is fully resolved?

    Would I like to see more of this? Heck yes. Would like to see you continue the serialized content and keep all the good stuff while improving the things that missed the mark a bit. Also expand to include more villains and supervillains of various types and origins. Good work, please keep it up!



    Cobra Lords are just the power-hungry suckers who help the Lemurians because "all that power bro......"
  • Lemurians giving Cobra Lords what amounts to incomplete Lemurian powered armor or limited Lemurian technology and they think it's like Christmas. It's like if DEMON gives a Maniac one of their little wands lol
  • qawsadaqawsada Posts: 714 Arc User
    Its so-so. I'm not completely surprise that is somewhat similar to Steel Crusade, but this questline is much more rewarding and less frustrating in comparison.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,908 Arc User
    Basically, it was nice to get some new storyline stuff. Part 1 was okay but very short. Part 2 was the most poorly implemented - at least at initial launch when everybody was going for the pearls, people being able to steal pearls while you were fighting the mobs, etc.

    It's hard to discuss the finale right now with it being so buggy. It seems like it'll be overly difficult for some builds (the final boss, and the sorcerers(?) standing by the crystals may need another look in terms of damage output). Ladyhawke just didn't seem to make a difference whether she was there or not.

    Got to be said, I finished part 4 without knowing that was supposed to be the actual ending. Maybe hyped-up new content shouldn't end on a vague cliffhanger?
    Yeah the parts where you need to fight TWO (Tough) Mastervillains at once were a bit much, but otherwise the balance seemed ok. It definitely felt like it was balanced for teams... and I soloed it.
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  • witches#3991 witches Posts: 3 Arc User
    This would be much better if Ladyhawke was actually fighting with you (and if she wasn't dead all the time like in part 4).

    Difficulty is weird, parts 1 and 2 are too easy and parts 3 and 4 too hard, not everyone wants to switch to knock and magic resistance gear just for one mission.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 4,632 Arc User
    My main hope is that development of this kind of content will continue. Too many things have been added to the game that were never further developed. Let's see a real effort to stay the course!
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  • zamuelpwezamuelpwe Posts: 668 Arc User
    Bear with me as I'm rather stream of consciousness but I wanted to get this posted. Death Rattle sits in this odd place where I like it but it has a few noteworthy issues where I'm not sure what the right adjustment should be. Particularly in how uneven it seems at times. I guess the question comes down to figuring out who the mission chain is for. Certainly not the speedrunner/min-max folks due to the way some of the mission doors are placed and the cooldown. Narrative players? It looks much more like this is the goal but most of the mystery of the mission chain leans towards forum discussion versus figuring it out with clues within the missions. At the end of this, we technically aren't any closer to knowing what the villains are after. While the community has a bit of magic fatigue, we at least have something Lemurian based instead of the normal DEMON/Qlthotic/Shadow Destroyer stuff and the setup at least felt like it wanted to be a superhero plot instead of a magic plot. Granted, the end mission kinda felt all over the place thematically. It's hard to tell if Death Rattle wants to be street level, magic, or technology.

    Level and timer cooldown feels like a concern. There's some challenge to it at a low level but it's a bit easy at 40. While the Cobra Lords have a new debuffing power, the fact that it affects charges but not taps, combos, or maintains make it feel kinda useless against everything but a few select powers. Now, this may be skewed if there are future plans to introduce other debuff to different enemy groups so it creates a situation of everyone having their own kryptonite. As far as the 24 hour cooldown, I like it on paper but it has tons of flaws in practice. First and foremost it requires buy in from the players to want that type of immersion and many are too hungry for new playable content after such a long drought. Low level players already have level barriers on the later missions so that's a bit of a double punishment (though I don't think it's meant to be a punishment). But perhaps the biggest issue is that it has bugs based on your login time make it seem like a non starter as a concept, especially a full 24 hours. Especially since this can throw off attempts to run this on a team, which is quite unlike Steel Crusade (arguably the most applicable thing to compare Death Rattle to).

    What I feel like may have been Death Rattle's biggest strength was the details. Environmental ambiance and voiceovers primarily. I don't know the budget or the pre PTS lead in time but despite any flaws, it felt like those working on it wanted it to have personality. Thank Einstein for that. Hopefully the next arc cleans up the problems while trying to have some character.
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    -Sterga
  • squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 868 Arc User
    I guess my first response to the initial post is 'wait, that's it?' Calling this a story arc is abusing the term story - nothing was really revealed, nothing was resolved. The real bad guy is still unknown and getting away with... whatever it is. Even though White Out leaves obvious dangling plot threads, the story came to a sort of conclusion (we dealt with *those* Roinesh who were on the ship that crashed). There's no conclusion here. I assumed there was going to be *at least* one more Death Rattle chapter where we confront the mastermind and set the immediate issues to rights. And this sort of overwhelms the good, because all the anticipation of a true reveal is dashed. Worse, the enemy plays the pronoun game so we don't get a reveal, which is the laziest sort of bad writing. That stole any satisfaction to be had in there being a new 'story'.

    Part I really isn't even a chapter. It's literally a room with a couple mobs in it. I mean, it's probably the best time to SCR ratio in the game, so I'll probably end up playing it a bunch, but it wasn't satisfying as a story chapter, much less as something that got hype.

    The bug on part 4 where you can't replay it (entrance doesn't activate with quest) is aggravating.

    Ladyhawk clearly has a transmitter, we should be able to contact her and turn quests in / get quests remotely. Running across the map to get / turn in quests is unnecessary and annoying.

    Finally, the gauntlet upgrade - why do you hate players with alts so much? Make the gems bind to account on pickup, rather than bind to character. There's literally no reason why you need to force players to do the farm all on the same character (who also wants to use the gauntlets) - even 'a low level character could get top tier gloves' is a silly argument, since characters go from 1 to 40 in less than a week of play.
  • daderganonumbersdaderganonumbers Posts: 63 Arc User
    I wasn't crazy about having Hydrophis on the ropes with at least two fifths of my own health bar and only a sliver of his and then getting one-shot by him. That wasn't what I would call enjoyable.

    Other than that, it's fine...not great, but it's hopefully forward movement for a game I love. What's to dislike?
  • theglasskittentheglasskitten Posts: 175 Arc User
    I enjoyed it, it was something new to do with okay rewards. I especially have been enjoying upgrading the gauntlet device. I hope that all of this leads to an Epic lair focused around Andrith the Golden : )
    ╔══╗
    ╚╗╔╝
    ╔╝(¯v´¯)
    ╚══.¸Menagerie
  • fermifermi Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    Let's talk about writing.

    Even in an episodal story, there needs to be arcs. A beginning, a heightening of tension, usually some kind of confrontation, and then an end. By and large the subject and framing needs to remain fairly consistent unless the arc is 'finding out what's going on'.

    Now when we started it looked like we had a fairly good frame, and one that many people here were eager to see: The Cobra Lords are involved in something new and weird. Ladyhawke is basically a cop in tights - exactly the power level we would expect to be watching the Cobras. They're meeting in a warehouse in Westside. It all works. It tells us what's going on. It's not long but it doesn't have to be.

    Part Two is actually also pretty perfect for the arc. No, it's not exciting, per se... we're doing legwork for investigation. That's what we would expect. And we're getting hints from the Cobras as they jump us because they can't always keep their mouths shut. Being forced to drag around Westside would be a good way to put us on the ground and really get into the Cobras' 'world', so to speak.

    But already we've gone off the rails a bit. I highly endorse loose threads in a story... but here we have ones that are problematic. At the start of Part Two when Ladyhawke told us that the lab had analyzed the pearl and found it contained all kind of information I was thrilled. "NOW we're getting to the heart of the matter! What are they? Where do they come from? What are they made of? How is the information encoded? How was it put there and how did you get it out?"

    We learn none of this. Ever.

    There's no reason for Ladyhawke to withhold this information from us. Indeed, there's not even any reason for it to be in this form. If you wanted to keep the pearls a mystery, you could easily have done so and had the 'list' arise from Cobras who we had beaten up and the police had come to collect. This, actually, would still give us the motivation to steal the pearls even if we don't know what is up with them - we WANT to antagonize the Cobras into jumping us so we can find ones who know what's up. You have give us not a loose thread, it's a jagged tear.

    Part Three of course involves Cobras because this arc is ABOUT the Cobras. And here I'll disagree with the others and say it's good to ramp up the difficulty. We DO want an arc. But our reason for engaging in the way we do is completely off. There's no emergency at all. Ladyhawke thinks it's a decoy and it is. There's no reason to believe she can hold off even a warehouse of Cobras, so there's no reason to leave her guarding the MacGuffin. What arc we had was just countermanded.

    Again, there's no real reason why it had to be this way. It could have just as easily been the real attack we were expecting, and the screws tightened with some extra information. "This is it! The attack we were expecting. And they came in force! And I have bad news... it's worse than we thought. The lab guys say that when they brought the pearls you collected together, they had a synergistic effect. With the MacGuffin and the pearls together, they could atomize whole buildings, open portals to the Moon, or... I don't even want to think of what else! We're in big trouble here!"

    Part Three is also where we meet Hydrophis. And that's fine. After all, we've had hints about the 'Boss' from the beginning. But remember: this is not an arc about him, the Boss, Lemurians, or even the Moon. THIS IS AN ARC ABOUT COBRAS. Hydrophis saying on his way out "Nothing is as it seems!" is a nice lead-in to the NEXT arc, maybe, but it could be much more serviceable if he was talking about the Cobras. He SHOULD be talking about the Cobras. This would be pretty easy to change too... he could have said afterward, "You're as big a fool as these Cobra Lords!" We would know more about the relationship between the Boss and the Cobras this way. Or he could have said, "You are not among the Chosen, unlike the Cobra Lords!"

    I don't know what the relationship is. None of us do. We finished our arc about the Cobras without being told.

    Part Four is not part of this arc at all. The Cobras have been left behind. Earth has been left behind. Elements were introduced (again with no lead-in at all) such as a prison on the Moon. This would be better as Part One of the NEXT arc... or maybe even as the pinnacle of the next arc once you have taken the time to lay the groundwork of what the heck any of us are actually doing there (which we still don't know). It would be easy to introduce them if you gave the whole thing the space to breathe. But you didn't.

    What Part Four SHOULD have been was the climactic Cobra conclusion to retire them properly as it is clear you intend to do. Were the Cobra's patsies? Maybe they're angry and they team up with you to stop the Lemurians. Are they STILL patsies? Maybe they pull a bold move to get back in Hydrophis' graces so they can get more goodies from him (and give Hydrophis a chance to shove their faces into the dirt "You think this would please me? You don't even know what's happening!"). Or maybe the Lemurians had secretly replaced all the top Cobras so the mission is an unmasking where we separate the true Cobras from the false and fight a series of Lemurian bosses like some of the Nemesis missions. This mission will also be the last Ladyhawke participates in, and gives her a reason to participate in person because she needs to wrap up all the loose COBRA ends.

    Then in Part Five (or Part One) the torch is handed to a NEW guide who can tell us what's going on with the Moon prison. Perhaps a member of the Space Police who first imprisoned whatever's in the Moon, or an arcanist or psionic who can read the history of the pearls. Even an astronaut who now understands what those Weird Things He Found in the lunar core sample actually ARE. This allows us to shift focus, power levels, and so on. It signals the start of a new arc.

    My take, for what it's worth.
  • fizzex#3004 fizzex Posts: 59 Arc User
    "Hi. Welcome to Ren Cen. No go to Westside."

    "Great. Now come to the lab."

    "Great. Now go back to Westside."

    "Great. Now come to the lab."

    "Oh, no! They've broken into *a* lab! Go outside, come back in, and fight!"

    "Great. Now go back to Ren Cen."

    "Great. Now go back to Westside."

    Never mind the moon: How is this NOT about a magic/tech/both contraption called a Time Sink? :p

    Good: New; uses low level gang for scaled story; can find pearls w/o the device active if having the mission (I get the same 6 - 7 spots); can sometimes get the same mission twice at the same time or get it again right after finishing it (may be normal for Dailies - I only do this); took several screen shots of the temple.

    Neutral: Gives Questionite, which I am starting to use (mostly to unslot mods) but otherwise collect when it happens.

    Bad: Tried the moon before the fix and have not tried it since. If this is the end of the story, then I need to try it again in hopes the shift from Cobra Lords to Lemurians makes sense. However, two of my toons cannot solo the lab raid (my fault) and, based on the try before the fix (where the crystal guards went into the wall and killed me anyway) I never fought the boss. From what I heard before the fix I doubt anything I have can solo the final boss (my fault again).

    So: I do the first two Parts when I feel like it or have Help a Citizen missions in Westside, the toons who can clear the lab do so, and they all ignore the temple/moon.

    Please make more of these and I will do what I can with how I play what I have. :)
  • mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Posts: 494 Arc User
    Let me get this out of the way at the top: This is the type of content I want more of.

    I want more missions. I want more story. I accept that I may repeat some of the story that I have already done, that comes with the territory, but this is more like the source material than random giant monster fights.

    I find myself wishing that even the save-a-citizen missions would never end; Let my hero discover a break-in at a warehouse and investigate, even if it's the same warehouse that the same villain broke into last week, and use that as a way to bring in more supervillains from the game... "I just saw Bulldozer breaking into a warehouse!" and you get to fight a low-grade supervillain from the PnP game. Make the villains, move them between warehouses and banks and laboratories, and then make those repeatable.
    Save the higher-grade villains for bigger stuff, but let us fight more than more powerful generic mooks.

    Anyway, back to the matter at hand...

    What kind of sad memory storage devices must those pearls be if it takes seven of them to store a list of places to rob and things to take, and why are they lying all over the docks?

    Why did Ladyhawke, immediately after deducing that the Cobra lords were being used as distractions for the "real" crimes send me to fight the Cobra lords while she went to guard the "real" objective?

    I could go on, but I started down that path and wrote way too much before deciding to cut back the critique to this:


    This wasn't, to me, a story so much as it was part of a story.
    Graknash is still out there, picking up where Hydrophus left off, and there is still the bigbad. Makes me wonder if this doesn't end up being at least nine parts, with the next four chapters taking us to the finale which may turn into instanced high-level content (ala Telios Ascendant).

    See Whiteout for a complete story that leaves the door open for more.

    So I like the idea, I want to see more (though preferably with more "comic-booky" Champions PnP supervillain involvement), but I don't like that it was billed as a story and yet it doesn't really have an ending, just an extended hiatus before we get the next parts.

    So either make them smaller so they fit into the four parts (or however many you are comfortable cranking out on a schedule) or talk about them as the "first four parts of a larger story" or the "next four parts" or whatever it comes to.

    Because if there is nothing to follow here? I think that most, if not all, people will see it as an incomplete story, not a story in four parts leading to another story.
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,139 Arc User
    So I like the idea, I want to see more (though preferably with more "comic-booky" Champions PnP supervillain involvement), but I don't like that it was billed as a story and yet it doesn't really have an ending, just an extended hiatus before we get the next parts.

    So either make them smaller so they fit into the four parts (or however many you are comfortable cranking out on a schedule) or talk about them as the "first four parts of a larger story" or the "next four parts" or whatever it comes to.

    Because if there is nothing to follow here? I think that most, if not all, people will see it as an incomplete story, not a story in four parts leading to another story.

    All seconded.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,812 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    My thoughts:

    The style that Death Rattle is in is the kind of content that Champions Online needs more of.

    In my opinion, we're at a point where we have our Endgame content firmly established and it is repeatable because of the rewards it can grant. Most power sets are being worked on to nerf/adjust/buff/balance them out so that everything is more or less on an even playing field with possibly a few exceptions.

    What we lack is fresh content like Death Rattle to look forward to, so that older players (and newer players) don't feel like this is purely "Grind-Champions Online". Also that those who don't particularly like or function well in Endgame (for a variety of reasons) have something to run if they feel so inclined.

    Those who have played through the game will have some background knowledge of the factions but this doesn't mean that newer players diving into this (or old players who never bothered to actually go through Lemuria) will be at any disadvantage.


    PRO'S

    - I liked the fact that two unlikely factions came together and worked together and this got people making threads and speculating. If you're getting that kind of response, usually it's quite positive.

    - I quite liked the introduction of LadyHawke and I enjoyed the voice over and animation work done for the Death Rattle Series, reminded me of certain missions and bosses in game who still play their original VO which always helps to enhance the experience! :smile:

    - The story behind Death Rattle progressed as expected in the sense that, we were "just in time...to be TOO LATE!" and for me personally this wasn't too underwhelming, because it was clear that what started off as a small issue opened a can of worms for something else and either tie in or resurrect something else.

    - Usage of various different maps and locations from all over the game. I just like seeing new maps being created from existing ones or existing ones being opened up.

    - MOON BASE MAP! I was surprised at this jaunt to the UNTIL Moonbase and even more surprised at the fact that it was the Moon base hideout map opened up. I REALLY hope this means that at some point we'll be able to open up our own moon bases because that is something that has been requested for a long time. Seems unlikely but it was nice (and a tad bit irritating) to explore.

    - Updated boss - Hydrophis used a few of the new abilities which players themselves had recently acquired, including Crashing Incantation, Whirlpool and Dimensional Collapse...his boss fight at higher difficulties was very interesting indeed, quite a nice treat!

    - Link to something / someone OUTSIDE of MC. Sometimes it can feel like MC is all there is as so many things are centered around Millennium City. I know its the main zone but there are other zones out there with interesting things and contacts. I liked that the very end we saw LadyHawke mention that we should speak to Dr. Ka, so that was a nice nod to VB.

    - Rewards! The unique rewards granted to everyone for first time running was really nice. I hope this is a trend which continues.

    - Whilst the lack of Cobra Lord resolution did bother me a bit...their appearance in the final part of the mission, tells me that they either have no idea that they are pawns, or that they know something we don't (both are likely at the same time). It would be great to have an "Aftershock" moment, where "My enemy's enemy is now a mutual enemy so lets team up to take them out" with the Cobra Lords working with us (as someone suggested above). I like the fact that there's potential for them to either realize or reveal something else. (Maybe their use of those gauntlets has been slowly transforming them? Maybe they are being turned into lizard-like Lemurians and only realize it in the next part and go to heroes for help???)

    CON'S

    - As some have mentioned already, some parts or decisions for missions seemed questionable. LadyHawke has no special abilities herself but is fully aware that the Cobra Lords are now using magic and opts to send heroes on a scavenger hunt and take up the role of guarding an object of significance to the mystery...seemed strange.

    - Some of the decisions she made, did make me wonder early on if she was in on it as well and we were going to be "VIPER Defector'd" at some point.

    - I think this would have been a good opportunity to work with more NPC heroes we have been introduced to via Lockbox contacts or past events or hell, even just having LadyHawke help out at be present during missions would have been nice.

    - I would have liked to know where or what the Champions were doing at this point.

    - I would have liked Death Rattle to have been delayed somewhat until the next part after part 4 is ready to run or dive into. Because although it is clear this is "only the beginning" there needs to be something connecting to it relatively soon otherwise people will lose interest in the story or have to run it again to be reminded of what has gone on. Whiteout and Aftershock are good examples staggering content in a great way. (I still remember my first run of Whiteout and how the music was GREAT for immersion and creeping me the hell out).

    - The appearance of the Lemurians within the UNTIL Moonbase was bizarre. Based on the content of the map...they had drilled their way in? From Earth?? Of course we can guess that they magically teleported to the moon...but why then drill through the moon only to drill up into the UNTIL moon base? Surely you just teleport around/in it?

    - I was really hoping that this was going to be less on the Qlipthothic / magical side of things and perhaps would introduce someone new or someone more "grounded". The magical Cobra Lords were nice but I would have preferred to see some new faces from CU lore be dropped in appropriately. I'm hoping they will be along the way but would have been nice to see them.

    - The time lock between missions was so irritating. I cannot stress that enough. Based on the rewards they granted, I can see why they were there but damn. Please can we never have anything like that again lol. Just allow us to access the new mission if we've already got the previous one completed in our "Completed Missions" tab.

    - Not so much of a 'CON' but I was (and still am) looking for more lore within those missions but have only found one piece so far... :disappointed:



    Overall, Death Rattle's story seems incomplete, as it should because it is incomplete. I do think given the opportunity, I would have personally tried to make use of CU's lore at this early point, but maybe that happens later.

    I enjoyed running through the missions and reading the story unfold. I think the most surprising mission was Part 4 because of the locations and content. (ProTip: Try running it on Elite...Legendary Hydrophis does not play games!! :skull: )

    I look forward to seeing what comes next and hopefully travelling to VB or other interesting locations outside of MC (like Lemuria)!
  • wingedkagoutiwingedkagouti Posts: 515 Arc User
    - The appearance of the Lemurians within the UNTIL Moonbase was bizarre. Based on the content of the map...they had drilled their way in? From Earth?? Of course we can guess that they magically teleported to the moon...but why then drill through the moon only to drill up into the UNTIL moon base? Surely you just teleport around/in it?
    There are various ways to explain that, but they all require events, lore or information that aren't presented anywhere in the story.
    - I was really hoping that this was going to be less on the Qlipthothic / magical side of things and perhaps would introduce someone new or someone more "grounded". The magical Cobra Lords were nice but I would have preferred to see some new faces from CU lore be dropped in appropriately. I'm hoping they will be along the way but would have been nice to see them.
    Any new faction would require art updates, which cost money, on top of story missions and possibly a Lair, which cost more money. And unlike lockboxes, content updates don't provide a visible revenue stream.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,812 Arc User
    edited March 23
    There are various ways to explain that, but they all require events, lore or information that aren't presented anywhere in the story.

    A better solution IMO would be to have portal VFX contained within Bubble Flight VFX to show them crossing from Lemuria or something.

    Whenever the drills are used, its typically because they're invading something from beneath or excavating. Examples include:

    - It's not your vault!
    - Lemurian Invasion

    You could say they needed to drill for those crystals they had but...I got the impression they just drilled into the base and brought the crystals along with it.
    Any new faction would require art updates, which cost money, on top of story missions and possibly a Lair, which cost more money. And unlike lockboxes, content updates don't provide a visible revenue stream.

    Hmm, a number of the costumes used in upgrading the Cobra Lords and the Lemurians were stuff existing in game.

    Just as we can make many different characters in game, Nemesis minion models could have been used, with some new outfits and bam, new faction.

    Kind of like the Stone Labs people.

    I think as more and more pieces are added to CO, there's probably scope for a full update of mobs and a way to introduce new stuff as well but I'm sure that will come with time.



    Post edited by theravenforce on
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,447 Arc User
    My thots:
    1. It's too short.
    2. It's too easy for the rewards it gives.
    3. It's too easy to be interesting.
    4. It's a mistake to keep adding easy sources of SCR since it pushes your previous work to the back of the queue.
    5. The story seems like generic "bad guys gonna destroy us all" stuff.
    6. Lemurians are lizards and I like lizards, so that's good.
    7. Clever recycling of assets.
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