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Creating a Mastermind class

Hi

One of my favourite classes in City of Villains was the Mastermind. We have pets in this game but we should expand them. In the following power categories we can gain the following minions.

Technology:

Robot Behemoth: A bruiser heavy hitter that can supplement the munitions bots with hard hitting attacks


Mystical:

Demon Lord: Call a terrible demon lord as an upper level power. This specifically calls a demon lord and no lesser demon can be called.
Demon Legion: You summon a trio of demon warriors that are uncontrollable like the shadows.

Zombie Brute: A powerful undead attacker
Lich: Call on a fearsome Lich to aid your undead forces with darkness and infernal attacks. Condemn, Shadow Embrace and life drain

Munitions:
Call Soldiers : Summon 3 uncontrollable pet soldier units with munitions
Call Lieutenant: Summon a powerful soldier ally. Controllable munitions based pet with some gadgets
Call Mafia Thugs: 3 uncontrollable Mafia units, uses munitions
Call Mafia Captain: The Mafia version of the Lieutenant, munitions user

Martial Arts

Ninja Thugs
Light Armored Samurai infantry
Samurai warrior
Master Ninja



Comments

  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,420 Arc User
    Some of these sound like those devices you can get that summon things.​​
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    Any attempt to replicate a class in another game will run into the issue that CO doesn't have classes. This imposes certain restrictions on what powers can do that don't apply in a class-based game (as this applies to pets, the issue is that you lose very little dps for adding a pet to your build. Thus, to make pets a choice instead of mandatory, pet dps has to be very low).
  • dialamxdialamx Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    There is already a way to be a Mastermind (of sorts) in game. You can make pet focused builds using Freeform and devices.

    Vegasblackout (popular for playing that lovable gorilla Sprinkles) has a character named Harold Winkleman who is, essentially, a Robot Mastermind. Using the drones and bot pets from Gadgeteering, the summoned colossus that looks like a robot, the R.O.D. sidekick, and the Robot Factory Arm, he creates an army of robot pets to fight for him.

    I have a character called Revenant, who is essentially a Zombie Mastermind, as he currently can summon 6 zombies to fight for him. And I know there's a recognition device that will allow for a possible 3 additional zombies to be summoned, which I will get when I have enough GCR and SCR.

    I've seen others do similar things with Dinos, Animals, Demons, etc. The other day I saw a Vampire character who had an army of vampire themed henchmen. He had shadows, zombies, and wolves fighting for him. While it's not the exact same as CoV's Mastermind class, it's as close as you'll ever get in a classless game. Since it requires being creative with both powers and devices, we won't see any AT's made based on the idea, but at least there is an option to make it yourself in Freeform.

    EDIT: On a side note, I do miss the option to name the pets and make them do emotes, like you could in CoV.
  • zamuelpwezamuelpwe Posts: 666 Arc User
    I'd argue that devices really skews things. I plan a longer response since I think what CO can and can't do concerning Masterminds is kinda complex instead of an apple to apples comparison. What I will point out is that I'm pretty sure the Inventor AT trends kinda close to being a Mastermind build for CO.
    "Interesting builds are born from limitations not by letting players put everything into one build."

    -Sterga
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,051 Arc User
    Any attempt to replicate a class in another game will run into the issue that CO doesn't have classes. This imposes certain restrictions on what powers can do that don't apply in a class-based game (as this applies to pets, the issue is that you lose very little dps for adding a pet to your build. Thus, to make pets a choice instead of mandatory, pet dps has to be very low).

    CO has classes. All the ATs in CO are...well it's literally in the name.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • xcelsior41 wrote: »
    Any attempt to replicate a class in another game will run into the issue that CO doesn't have classes. This imposes certain restrictions on what powers can do that don't apply in a class-based game (as this applies to pets, the issue is that you lose very little dps for adding a pet to your build. Thus, to make pets a choice instead of mandatory, pet dps has to be very low).

    CO has classes. All the ATs in CO are...well it's literally in the name.

    Yeah it basically is. They just don't call them classes but that's what they are.
  • They still could release many of the things I mentioned as permanent devices instead of limited charges.

    Like how hard is it to give us a permanent Bale summon? Even if we had to grind for that permanent device or pay more but I would if it means I can get a permanent summoning device that doesn't cost 5 UNTIL and only 3 uses!?
  • dialamxdialamx Posts: 749 Arc User
    I'd love permanent version of the various "Summon (Gang)" devices, like "Summon New Purple Gang", "Summon Dogz", etc.

    That could be used for the Thug Mastermind style.
  • theglasskittentheglasskitten Posts: 175 Arc User
    Yes! A permanent version of the temp summon devices we have could be a lot of fun
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    ╚══.¸Menagerie
  • Yes! A permanent version of the temp summon devices we have could be a lot of fun

    I could make my old Mafia Mastermind from CoV named Don Spaghetti. Munitions for him and use the Purple gang thugs
  • buggyhexapodbuggyhexapod Posts: 54 Arc User
    I approve and support the idea of adding a mastermind/pet archetype(s) into the game as well. In fact, i have been waiting for such an update since the release of the archetype system, long ago.
  • Maybe the devs will read this thread
  • psychicslugpsychicslug Posts: 523 Arc User
    as the side kick device they could have a back up (minion) device that summons like the temp ones but are permanent.



  • theglasskittentheglasskitten Posts: 175 Arc User
    For those wanting to play a mastermind type AT; the Inventor is that. It gets a group buff passive, 2 pet summon abilities allowing you to have up to 4 pets out through your powers and it also has access to the Commander spec tree to buff your pets. It is a really fun Pet summoner AT
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    ╔╝(¯v´¯)
    ╚══.¸Menagerie
  • How about in the Nemesis store for 100 tokens each you can buy a permanent summon 3 henchmen of your choice and 150 tokens to buy one of the villain level ones.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,051 Arc User
    Just as uh...reminder, the MMO with the MM class IS playable right now, if y'all want to give it a go. You of course don't have to
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • xcelsior41 wrote: »
    Just as uh...reminder, the MMO with the MM class IS playable right now, if y'all want to give it a go. You of course don't have to

    It's also legally dodgy (no offense)
  • psychicslugpsychicslug Posts: 523 Arc User
    xcelsior41 wrote: »
    Just as uh...reminder, the MMO with the MM class IS playable right now, if y'all want to give it a go. You of course don't have to

    It's also legally dodgy (no offense)

    also i have way too much invested in this, and lost everything from the other and don't wanna rebuild thank you



  • I've been playing Champions pretty much since it came out 10 years ago. I enjoy the game but want to improve it
  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,409 Arc User
    How to make a petmaster class for CO:
    1. Make the commander tree ridiculously overpowered
    2. Place some kind of sane limit on the number of pets that can be summoned
    3. Fix pet AI
    4. wait no cryptic can't do step 3 rip
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    Well, pet AI can be fixed by making it stupider. The problems with pets mostly come when pets try to decide on targets all by themselves, so just get rid of that. If you're targeting an enemy when you summon a pet, the pet attacks that enemy, otherwise it waits for you to tell it to attack something. Maybe add a target designator ability/power advantage to tell all your pets to attack something.
  • buggyhexapodbuggyhexapod Posts: 54 Arc User
    To be honest, there is no need for an archetype to be even made, in order to just make "pet builds" work.

    The required things are: a passive power that is designed around the idea of boosting the summoned pets' health and damage levels in relation to the superstats, a buff-power that does the same thing, except with the requirement of a certain superstat (such as intelligence or presence), and perhaps even a passive power that returns energy to the hero.

    In addition, an energy consuming power that allows the summoner to command all the summoned pets to focus on a certain target, and increase the damage done so long as the power is used, could also be added. Perhaps it could be called "Kill Command". This could be used to make the energy returning passive power work in accordance to how many pets are summoned.

    What i mean by an archetype not being required to make the "pet builds" work is that there are more than one type of pet to summon. There are technological, magical, dimensional, elemental, and even mental pets.

  • psychicslugpsychicslug Posts: 523 Arc User
    as to classes, champions does have them but also free form too and because of this all powers have to be a balance because of this issue. Now you could have the AT's "classes" have exclusive power options that are not available to free form like higher pets and pet based powers. This would lock a person in an at and if they respect they would still blocked unless a full respect and then they could chose between free form or and A.T. This would let those who want to make pets the old way or provide a new option for those who want a more definite structure of a class type thing.



  • I wish there were human pets available to choose from but there aren't any (unless you count the Celestial angel).
  • buggyhexapodbuggyhexapod Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    Instead of the pets having their own ai, how about using energy building and consuming powers that directly summon the desired pets and minions to do the desired tasks?

    For example, a maintain/click/tap/charge power could summon a froup of pets or minions, such as a group of ninjas, to attack the enemy that is directly targeted by the player, until there is no more energy to consume.

    Better yet, there could be a whole section of archetypes that are created under the "Hybrid: Pet/Minion/Summoner" title.
  • I wish there were human pets available to choose from but there aren't any (unless you count the Celestial angel).

    Yeah you can't even role play that you have thugs with you because the only human pet is the angel. I had a Mastermind in CoV called Don Spaghetti that was a Thugs/Munitions build.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    The real question is: When there is such a goldmine of pet master archetype ideas in the game, why are they still not implemented yet?
    The issues with pet masters don't have to do with lack of concepts for pets. The basic problem is that making pets work well is a lot of effort, and pet masters are irrelevant enough to the superhero genre that fixing them is not a significant priority (minion masters in comics are almost always villains).
  • buggyhexapodbuggyhexapod Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    The real question is: When there is such a goldmine of pet master archetype ideas in the game, why are they still not implemented yet?
    The issues with pet masters don't have to do with lack of concepts for pets. The basic problem is that making pets work well is a lot of effort, and pet masters are irrelevant enough to the superhero genre that fixing them is not a significant priority (minion masters in comics are almost always villains).

    In Champions Online, you can use munitions to shoot and defeat/kill your opponents. It's even called being an anti-hero. Let's think about an ex-villain-turned-hero that uses his or her helpers(minions) and/or pets to help him or her. Think in a broader sense: There is a superstat that is named "presence". Why should a superstat be all about healing and cc'ing someone, when it could also be about boosting the power of those who fight for you or alongisde you? And why could they also not be pets and/or minions as well?

  • fermifermi Posts: 117 Arc User
    I remember playing a mastermind back in City of X. I had set up my numpad to give out a large variety of commands to the three sets of flunkies (in my case, robots) that I could summon. I could set each set to aggressive or defensive stance, order one or all of them to attack specific targets or go to specific locations, or could unsummon them and resummon them. I really was a MASTERMIND, directing all of their actions from behind.

    PLEASE correct me if wrong, but little to none of this is possible in Champions Online. Yes, we can summon flunkies, and even dismiss them, but not exert much control at all over what they are doing or where they are going, certainly not on so granular a level as being able to tell one group to target the boss while the other group holds the minions at bay and a third group stands next to me so I don't die.

    In my opinion, THIS is what is missing from a real pet 'class' in CO. Without any real control, you're just a mass of random effects and it's all a matter of luck and not getting hung up on the landscape.
  • buggyhexapodbuggyhexapod Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    Come to think of it, as a liftime subscriber, i have been waiting to this day for a pet/minion summoner or mastermind archetype(s) to be implemented into the game ever since the game has come out. Yes, even before the free to play and archetypes. Even back in those days, the pets existed.

    If at least one pet master archetype could be added into the game in the future, that would be the greatest thing that i could ever wish for from this game. Ever.
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