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Freeform and toggle powers issue (returning player)
prototech
Posts: 10 Arc User
Hey Guys!
I just came back to the game and quite excited about it. I have been eyeing the lts or even buying a few freeform slots. That said I like to do my research so I've spent a lot of time on the wiki looking at powers and the hero builder.
It does not seem to me that mixing powers across sets is as flexible as it should be. I'm wondering why even go freeform. I get that you can add extra defensives and a few flair powers but it seems there is no valid way to really branch out.
The simple example I have is trying to build a superman like character. I don't want enrage, it doesn't fit, yet what choice do I have for a toggle? Toggles seem to be the main mode of attack buffing and not having one seems like a huge loss. At least on defensive I can choose invulnerable over defiant but the brick set still revolves around defiant to a large extent.
So is freeform really just freeform within a set? It seems incredibly unfortunate.
Would love to hear stories about how you guys got around this or synergized in interesting ways across sets. Not sure I'll bother freeforming if it's just to change the order I choose powers.
I just came back to the game and quite excited about it. I have been eyeing the lts or even buying a few freeform slots. That said I like to do my research so I've spent a lot of time on the wiki looking at powers and the hero builder.
It does not seem to me that mixing powers across sets is as flexible as it should be. I'm wondering why even go freeform. I get that you can add extra defensives and a few flair powers but it seems there is no valid way to really branch out.
The simple example I have is trying to build a superman like character. I don't want enrage, it doesn't fit, yet what choice do I have for a toggle? Toggles seem to be the main mode of attack buffing and not having one seems like a huge loss. At least on defensive I can choose invulnerable over defiant but the brick set still revolves around defiant to a large extent.
So is freeform really just freeform within a set? It seems incredibly unfortunate.
Would love to hear stories about how you guys got around this or synergized in interesting ways across sets. Not sure I'll bother freeforming if it's just to change the order I choose powers.
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And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Same applies for your passive. It's been a while since they don't have graphic FX associated.
Like, I've an angel using feral toggle while she applies bleed with her heavy blade. But..whatever ? What I see on my screen is just a angel bashing her sword tip on ennemies' face. No special FX for the toggle, nor for the bleed.
I don't disagree at all... But... then why freeform? if I have attacks from two sets then only half will fuel my toggle. I guess I could use a generator and attacks that don't fuel any toggle as the 'second set' but it's limiting.
Yeah I think this could be the saving grace but still bothered by how tied together the sets are.
I wish at least sets scaled with any primary or at least to some lower efficiency. It seems mostly flair based when branching out, if not to stack cooldowns.
The way I see it these are the only acceptable methods of jumping sets:
1. Stacking long cooldowns powers (heals, defensives) - basically pay for survivability
2. Swapping generators or non synergy powers - as long as they don't scale of the wrong stat
3. Flair
Freeform still seems underwhelming
I kinda feel like I get how to make a build, and that's the problem, it's not flexible enough a system.
And put down your calculator, don't stare the numbers on your screen, enjoy the game.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
You'll want to look into more generic forms like Concentration, Compassion, Form of the Tiger, and Enrage that have very reliable trigger conditions and scale off of a stat that is easily related to what you're doing when going for mix builds. To me, the way the new generation of Forms are designed specifically cater to the sets they're tied to, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, though at the end of the day they don't provide much more benefit than the more generic ones do.
Personally, I'm kinda more peeved at Forms because all they do is add "MOAR DEEPS." If they did things like mix Damage and Healing strength, or slip in a specialized resistance to a damage type, they'd be much more interesting. Other than that, I don't see much reason to take a specialized form over a generic one unless you just wanted to do silly things like a Presence-scaling DPS.
And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
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Fair enough
Cool, this is helpful thanks.
In CO it's more so, because you can't get extra power points by taking Disads.
I do have one inspired by Supes, but Hypernova's basically a flying brick with eyebeams and frost breath. You can't simulate Kal-El's flight and super-speed (although you can take superspeed running as a second travel power) and invulnerability (Invulnerability is damage reduction, not what Supes does) and that solar-pulse thing he had for a while and... well, there was the power-of-the-week thing back in the Silver Age, when anything anybody could do, he could do better by putting "super" at the beginning. (Although as the image at Superdickery pointed out, "super-mathematics" differs from normal human mathematics mostly by being off by a factor of ten.) There just aren't enough powers.
Where I've really had fun with the crossing of the power streams is Shadowbringer, whose powers are related by what can be conceptually thought of as "darkness control". Thus he can drain the life from an opponent (and, with an advantage, share that life with his nearby teammates), attack them with shadow-forms, directly shoot them with shadowy Eldritch Blasts, teleport through the Umbra, and - well, that's pretty much it so far, because I've been dividing my CO time between Shadowbringer and Sonrise, and of course the Nightmare Event cuts into both (low-level toons just aren't the best for the event).
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I'm with you, I should have been more clear. I don't really want a classic superman, more like the 'heroic flying super strong guy'. Brick is more of a 'Hulk' actually it's exactly like a hulk. I don't want Enrage basically is the main issue
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I'm like OCD with certain things, would have loved to have a different theme than 'rage machine' on the powers themselves. You're not wrong though - but again no need for freeform
Another one of my characters, Vorel, is a human that got kidnapped by a mad scientist that screwed with her genetics, thus she gained the powers of ice and shadow, while becoming really good with firearms. As you could see/guess, mixing powers from Firearms, Ice, and Shadow, was no easy feat. I still managed to pull it off though, but, that is because, in the beginning of her character concept, I never DEFINED what her shadow and ice powers were. Were they attack, defensive, or support type powers? Over time, by defining what they were, it made refining her build easier. Firearms for attacking, Ice for defensive purposes, and Shadow for control. By taking that route, I was able to easy mix and match powers to suit the theme.
So, that is something else that you might want to try, Defining what a power type the character uses does for the character. Is it for attacking, defending, or supporting? Once you start doing that, it becomes much easier to choose the powers you need.
If everything scaled with your primary to that degree, the vast majority of powers in the game would become worthless overnight. Everyone would simply pick whatever had the biggest numbers and be done with it.
If you know what you're doing, though, there are quite a few powers that synergize astonishingly well with other sets (sometimes even better than they do with their own set). Just off the top of my head:
The lightning lunge isn't especially useful in its own set, but is amazing for melee characters due to its quick activation time.
Support Drones are often used outside of Gadgeteering, and can work on almost any build.
There are Mentalist builds with Seraphim as a passive.
Aurora is one of the best self-resurrection powers in the game, and doesn't care what the rest of your build looks like.
Both Imbue and the Ice active offense are great on characters that are primary neither Celestial nor Ice.
I have a Might character who uses Decimate as her lunge, just so she can smack people with a stop sign.
Dual Blades and Single Blades characters can easily use either Dragon's Wrath or Dragon's Bite; or even both (Dragon's Bite with Dragon Rush, then Dragon's Wrath without Dragon Rush as the main attack).
Will o the Wisp, despite being an Infernal power, is exceptionally good on healers of any type.
The issue you're having with trying to build a Superman character is that you are trying to be good at both melee and ranged at the same time (which is generally not a thing in this game), and you're using a power armor ability (difficulty in working with other sets is precisely the drawback that Power Armor has). None of this stops you from doing it; it simply isn't an optimal build.
It is quite possible to make a toon that is both good at melee and ranged. Just, they won't pump out the deeps that min/maxed toons (even to a minor degree) can pump out.
For Int, the Burn Through debuff works with the toggle from Laser sword (Particle Accelerator) and maybe the Energy Unlock (Unified Theory,) too. Use Chest beam and Power Bolts to build stacks and debuff resistance. Lunge if the target gets knocked. Use melee attacks from Might and Unarmed Martial Arts.
I said "generally". There are ways to do it, yes, but there is more involved to build a character that way.
Yes, I was just adding on to what you said.
You will find, however, that there are powers in each set that no given archetype has access to, and often these are considered the BEST powers of the sets. Further, archetypes are forced into one role, one set of super-stats, and one set of specializations... even if you choose many of the same powers as the archetypes, you can end up twisting how they work quite a bit by making choices an archetype player never gets to make.
It is worth noting that even the archetypes sometimes cross power sets, drawing together this power-builder or that form toggle or that other extra power. It's easier to do if you only make a couple exceptions that aren't meant to be the core of your character, adding breadth or flavour instead of depth.
Many players of archetypes are dissatisfied with just one or two choices made for them... I sometimes wonder if the game might not benefit from a 'free-lite' that let people change just one thing. With freeform you don't have to worry about any of those limitations. I've known very few freeform people to decide that they didn't care about it and settle down only into archetypes. But it does go the other way.
Worth it to you? That's for you to decide.
Yes, if an Archetype can completely fulfill the desired character theme, then you don't need a Freeform Slot for that character. The best part is, if you ever change your mind you can convert that slot into a Freeform slot, without losing any levels you've gained. So, you know, do what works.
Also you won't look like a rage machine, you'll just look like a guy punching people. Enraged doesn't make your character roar or foam at the mouth or anything like that.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
For my part I think I have discovered additional reasons to free form. Please correct me if I'm wrong here.
1. Certain powers even within a set are locked form the archetype
2. Archetypes are locked to one role, so for a damage might or power armor character I need free form
3. There are at least a few powers in other sets that can work quite well and it's possible to get decent mixed characters as long as not min maxing.
Thanks
For instance, the Unleashed is a pretty fair Jedi/Sith sort of powerset, and good at delivering damage too - except for its use of Force Pull at 8th level. In my experience, by the time I'm finished charging that power up, I've already drawn aggro from the enemy and they've charged at me anyway, obviating the use of the power. For my parody toon Okee-wan Fenokee, I replaced that with a lunge, reasoning that using the Force - pardon me, the Potence - to jump at my opponent would make more sense anyway. (I changed up a couple of other powers too, but that was the main reason for doing him as a Freeform rather than an Unleashed.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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1. Choose powers in any order even within a set (seems trivial but 'feels' really good)
2. There are strong themes even within sets (for a superman vs hulk in might for example, easy enough to avoid the beastly looking attacks and go for a more restrained might character)
3. Freely change roles (this is a big one boys)
4. Super stats (added dex in on my might char)
One thing I really liked on my might character was being able to go offensive with unstoppable but stack it with some defensive powers to sort of go middle of the road. I've been thinking about going the other way and getting into the tank role for solo play just to boost the 'invulnerable' side of the character - but then choose very offensive powers and playstyle, just ways to have fun with it.
The character I'm totally stuck on is my power armor character. I can't decide if I want to go 'particle only' or add in some munitions etc. Particle powers just seem inferior to missiles and minigun
Welcome to LTS!
*gives the LTS secret handshake*
Missiles are slightly more bursty, with circular aoe. Lasers are a tiny bit more efficient, and linear. Don't spend too much time thinking about the numbers as lasers and missiles are functionally equal in regards to damage output. Basically your choice should be based around:
1. Whichever looks cooler/fits the theme better
2. Do you enjoy the tactic of moving around to make your lasers sweep an area?
Also the best power armor build will involve both missiles and lasers. Those attacks that don't do anything for ~4 seconds and then do a huge amount of damage are pretty good.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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