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  • guyhumualguyhumual Posts: 2,386 Arc User
    Damn, you're faster at finding the characters you want than I am. Sadly I might have made the mistake of changing one or more of my character's appearances so I can't always remember what they looked like with a quick mouse over. I got to wait for the portraits to load like a schlub. This is the punishment we get for playing the game I guess.
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    Quality of Life Improved!
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,021 Arc User
    """""Quality""""" of life​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    heh, STO has always had it organized by what is most recently used, In fact, I once forgot what order I created the characters :p
    ChampsWiki
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My characters
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    heh, STO has always had it organized by what is most recently used, In fact, I once forgot what order I created the characters :p

    Yeah, though, for me, there does not seem like a real need to create a lot of tons in STO as it did in CO due to how the games are different with character creation.

    STO is a lot more limited. You are basically stuck with a choice of three classes and not many races (unless you choose Federation). Because of the class limitation, I never really felt a real need to create a member of each race, instead, only a member of each class for each faction, except for the extra federation factions in STO. Those I just made like one character so I could have one of those for the "recruit" stuff.

    So, I have a much smaller amount of toons in STO than CO.

    In CO, I have the same problem as bluhman with finding toons I had not played in a while.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    I have 18 :p
    ChampsWiki
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My characters
  • i have 47​​
    #LegalizeAwoo
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    I have 18 :p

    18 toons in CO or STO? If in STO, yeah, that sounds like me. If in CO, well, nice, that makes it easy on you, I have 180 with 20 or so more empty slots.
  • psychicslugpsychicslug Posts: 721 Arc User
    I have over 50 and counting, this has made it annoying to find some but guess i will adjust to it, until something better comes along.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    soulforger wrote: »
    I have 18 :p

    18 toons in CO or STO? If in STO, yeah, that sounds like me. If in CO, well, nice, that makes it easy on you, I have 180 with 20 or so more empty slots.
    STO. It's around 3 pages of characters.
    ChampsWiki
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My characters
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    soulforger wrote: »
    I have 18 :p

    18 toons in CO or STO? If in STO, yeah, that sounds like me. If in CO, well, nice, that makes it easy on you, I have 180 with 20 or so more empty slots.
    STO. It's around 3 pages of characters.

    Nice.
  • guyhumualguyhumual Posts: 2,386 Arc User
    I have 159 toons with 2 empty slots, which I'm saving for RP purposes, the toons I do alerts with are all on page 1 now as apposed to page 3, 5, and 9, I knew were they were by the number of clicks I needed to get to them. I have toons that I play on certain events, and I suspect they're going to be a real bother to play as they'll be up to 5 pages back as I've made the mistake of leveling, gearing, and playing at the tailor's with toons that I don't usually play. That has to stop now thanks to this change. No more fooling around with a toon you haven't played in a while. Those toons are effectively gone, and if they're any further back than page 3 then they're not worth the effort of finding. My quality of life has improved.
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    heh, STO has always had it organized by what is most recently used, In fact, I once forgot what order I created the characters :p
    Yeah, although STO at least shows the names so if you have a lot of characters, you can quickly scroll down until you find the right name, click it, wait for the models to load, then play it. CO only has the icon to go by now, although previously, it also had character position. As that video shows, the icons don't load right away either, and while they're supposedly working on a fix for that, it'd be better if they just...reverted it or turned it into an option. Oh well...

    Also, while you certainly can, there's a lot less incentive to make buttloads of alts in STO compared to CO.
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • and yet i have 47, because YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS​​
    #LegalizeAwoo
  • guyhumualguyhumual Posts: 2,386 Arc User
    aesica wrote: »
    Yeah, although STO at least shows the names so if you have a lot of characters, you can quickly scroll down until you find the right name, click it, wait for the models to load, then play it. CO only has the icon to go by now, although previously, it also had character position. As that video shows, the icons don't load right away either, and while they're supposedly working on a fix for that, it'd be better if they just...reverted it or turned it into an option. Oh well...
    That's one of the chief problems with the new system, as I don't know where my toons are I have to pictures to load to see who's where, but with the old system, even though I didn't see the pictures I knew where my toons I wanted to use were. For example, Masquerade, my most used toon, used to sit exactly in the middle or PG 3. I didn't need to wait for that icon to load in to find her, I didn't need to wait for all the pictures to load to search for her new location every time I play some other characters. There's no consistency as all the characters are constantly shifting. I might have had to go back 9 pages to get some of the toons I wanted but I always knew where they were, and I didn't have to worry about their position shifting if I was thinking of leveling some of my non 40 characters.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    If they can do that cacheing thing that'll make portraits load faster then that pretty much solves the problem, so keep yer fingers crossed.​​
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    Yeah, this change was not done with people with lots of toons in mind, only the people that have a few toons. People that only have a handful of toons have it much easier with the new system due to them not having to go through 15+ pages of slowly loading icons that are constantly shifting causing you to go "where is my super suit!?".

    Hence why I am hoping this was more of a test to see if they can implement options like this and are going to introduce new options that players can switch between with ease on the character select screen. Having this forced...is not cool in my opinion. I had a nice balanced Jenga stack, now my blocks are all over the place.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    soulforger wrote: »
    Yeah, this change was not done with people with lots of toons in mind, only the people that have a few toons.

    Mmm, not technically true. It did have people with lots of toons in mind who don't actively use pages upon pages of characters. If you only use 13 or less toons actively, then you benefit greatly from this even if you have 50 pages of toons since for the majority of your character selection usage you won't even have to flip pages anymore once toons have migrated to the first page. If you use 14-26 characters actively, then you'll only have to flip through two pages. 27-39, three pages. Flipping through 3 pages isn't really a big deal, and 39 toons is already quite a lot - not just to have, but to play actively.

    The only group who they did not have in mind was "people with tons of toons who use a large percentage of them with an equal activity level" since that group gets no benefit from this, and actually sees a few negatives. No idea what % of the population that is, but probably not much. What sucks is that whatever the percentage is, it's guaranteed to be long-time players, so I can understand why those people might feel a bit rebuffed by this. Also "Don't worry, the majority of people weren't inconvenienced by this, just you" generally isn't very comforting o3o​​
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    If they can do that cacheing thing that'll make portraits load faster then that pretty much solves the problem, so keep yer fingers crossed.​​
    It'll help, but it won't completely solve the problem. This is what I have my fingers crossed for:

    8W0ARF5.png
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • beezeezebeezeeze Posts: 927 Arc User
    Twelvish pages of characters? Congrats on finding the one you were looking for!


    Also...

    what was that??

  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    I hate this update.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • guyhumualguyhumual Posts: 2,386 Arc User
    aesica wrote: »
    spinnytop wrote: »
    If they can do that cacheing thing that'll make portraits load faster then that pretty much solves the problem, so keep yer fingers crossed.​​
    It'll help, but it won't completely solve the problem. This is what I have my fingers crossed for:

    8W0ARF5.png

    That would be the best solution, like I'm sure there are some folks that love this update, but folks like me don't care for it and having choices would always be better than forcing changes on people.
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    I’m disliking it more and more.

    Needed a toon I hadn’t used in some time but could find him without everything finally loading, it took me about 4 whole mins to find my toon.

    Only because I had to wait for everything that load then then search full roster twice.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    spinnytop wrote: »
    nepht wrote: »
    I hate this update.

    You can't even named ten things you don't hate u3u​​

    Rum times ten.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    guyhumual wrote: »
    That would be the best solution, like I'm sure there are some folks that love this update, but folks like me don't care for it and having choices would always be better than forcing changes on people.
    Oh there are some who do like it because, amidst their sea of characters, there's only a few that they really care about and this gets them on the front page. I guess one of my main problems with this is that it was done to improve the quality of life for that group of people without any regard for...basically everyone else.
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    aesica wrote: »
    Oh there are some who do like it because, amidst their sea of characters, there's only a few that they really care about and this gets them on the front page. I guess one of my main problems with this is that it was done to improve the quality of life for that group of people without any regard for...basically everyone else.

    "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." - Yoda​​
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    Except in this case, it was more like, "The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many." - Mirror Universe Yoda
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,021 Arc User
    ab0.jpg​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • celiziccelizic Posts: 42 Arc User
    I vaguely recall one of the devs saying something about caching profile images when noise was made about this. This leads me to believe that the profile images are made server side and tossed to the client on demand as you page through your list of heroes. If this is the case then as you page through your list of heroes you are putting load on their servers.

    Assuming all my assumptions are correct, this may be a ploy to reduce the load on their servers. With the devs figuring if they force all your most used characters to the front page you won't be paging through several pages of characters each time you log in.

    I could just be assuming completely in the wrong direction though.
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    celizic wrote: »
    I vaguely recall one of the devs saying something about caching profile images when noise was made about this. This leads me to believe that the profile images are made server side and tossed to the client on demand as you page through your list of heroes. If this is the case then as you page through your list of heroes you are putting load on their servers.

    Assuming all my assumptions are correct, this may be a ploy to reduce the load on their servers. With the devs figuring if they force all your most used characters to the front page you won't be paging through several pages of characters each time you log in.

    I could just be assuming completely in the wrong direction though.
    celizic wrote: »
    I vaguely recall one of the devs saying something about caching profile images when noise was made about this. This leads me to believe that the profile images are made server side and tossed to the client on demand as you page through your list of heroes. If this is the case then as you page through your list of heroes you are putting load on their servers.

    Assuming all my assumptions are correct, this may be a ploy to reduce the load on their servers. With the devs figuring if they force all your most used characters to the front page you won't be paging through several pages of characters each time you log in.

    I could just be assuming completely in the wrong direction though.

    Well, so, two good things happen from this disaster than. If they do manage to figure out caching profile images for the players, that is good, and, if it reduces stress on the server, that is also good. Always look for that silver lining.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    aesica wrote: »
    Except in this case, it was more like, "The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many." - Mirror Universe Yoda

    Ah, so you are under the impression that the "people with tons of toons that use them all equally" group is a majority. Figures.​​
  • beezeezebeezeeze Posts: 927 Arc User
    it is not great.. so lettuce consider why thy did this...I yam not sure..yer grass is as good as mine.

  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Ah, so you are under the impression that the "people with tons of toons that use them all equally" group is a majority. Figures.​​
    No, what I'm saying is the "has lots of characters, but only plays a few" are the only group that actually benefit from this.

    But I'm pretty sure you're just trolling. Figures.
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    aesica wrote: »
    No, what I'm saying is the "has lots of characters, but only plays a few" are the only group that actually benefit from this.

    Sure, they're the only ones that benefit, but then everyone else ends up neutral. People with only a few characters weren't effected by this at all. So that just leaves the minority of "people with tons who use em all at the same time". Figures.​​
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Sure, they're the only ones that benefit, but then everyone else ends up neutral. People with only a few characters weren't effected by this at all. So that just leaves the minority of "people with tons who use em all at the same time". Figures.​​
    You're assuming "everyone else" doesn't mind their characters being shuffled all over the place. With even just 1 page, a fixed order is in nearly every case superior to last-login order.

    But I know you just like to internet fight and troll, so. Figures. :)
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    aesica wrote: »
    You're assuming "everyone else" doesn't mind their characters being shuffled all over the place. With even just 1 page, a fixed order is in nearly every case superior to last-login order.

    But I know you just like to internet fight and troll, so. Figures. :)

    You're assuming they do. Maybe it's because I'm older, but I don't think people who aren't really effected are generally so persnickety as to get upset about it for the sake of being upset. I think the folks who make a crusade out of every little change are a wolf-crying minority. Figures.​​
  • qawsadaqawsada Posts: 736 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    I think the folks who make a crusade out of every little change are a wolf-crying minority. Figures.​​
    That is a big assumption from a person that like to assume stuff. Of course, this is coming from a devil advocate that post stuff for post count by poking the hive.

  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    qawsada wrote: »
    That is a big assumption from a person that like to assume stuff.

    All we have about this issue are assumptions, so naturally that's what the conversation is about. It's been happening for years on these forums. There's always someone claiming they're part of some outraged majority, and someone else pointing out that the forum crowd is a minority. Then someone starts talking about polls.​​
  • qawsadaqawsada Posts: 736 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    snip
    Because when you have a PTS thread with that particular update, along with a Release Note afterward, with threads of the said subject popping up, and having zone and endgame chat with players asking why their character order is mess up, I firmly don't believe this is a minority stuff. Dismissing it as a minority thing with this much attention is a crappy way to undermining this issue.
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    You're assuming they do. Maybe it's because I'm older, but I don't think people who aren't really effected are generally so persnickety as to get upset about it for the sake of being upset. I think the folks who make a crusade out of every little change are a wolf-crying minority. Figures.​​
    I'm assuming nothing. I'm basing it not just on my own opinion, but also all the comments I see in various channels, threads etc where this topic keeps showing up. It clearly impacts a fair amount of folks negatively in at least some way or they wouldn't keep going on about it.
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    aesica wrote: »
    I'm assuming nothing. I'm basing it not just on my own opinion, but also all the comments I see in various channels, threads etc where this topic keeps showing up. It clearly impacts a fair amount of folks negatively in at least some way or they wouldn't keep going on about it.

    Confirmation bias is fun stuff.​​
  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    post all the positive feedback on this change, thanks in advance.
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  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Confirmation bias is fun stuff.​​
    Not really. I can think of only one person who actually approves of the change. That's not counting you, since you're known for trolling just for the sake of trolling, so who knows where you actually stand on this. I've been watching for both for and against feedback, and I really haven't seen much for.
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,315 Arc User
    Okay, now you know of two people. It makes it a lot easier for me to figure out who I've been playing lately when I take a break, and to find the newer toons when I play steadily. (I used to have to go through three pages just to find Shadowbringer, and when it's a special-occasion toon like Vincit Omnia in February or Weapon Xmas in December? Gads, then I had to remember which page I left them on, or wait for each one to finish loading up just to find out if they were there. Now, when late June rolls around, Captain Americlown will only have to be hunted down the once, then he'll sit at the top of the rotation until the July celebration ends.)
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Okay, now you know of two people. It makes it a lot easier for me to figure out who I've been playing lately when I take a break, and to find the newer toons when I play steadily. (I used to have to go through three pages just to find Shadowbringer, and when it's a special-occasion toon like Vincit Omnia in February or Weapon Xmas in December? Gads, then I had to remember which page I left them on, or wait for each one to finish loading up just to find out if they were there. Now, when late June rolls around, Captain Americlown will only have to be hunted down the once, then he'll sit at the top of the rotation until the July celebration ends.)

    Thing is, these are issues that could be worked around in the past.

    A character's position in the roster is static, so once you learn where a character is located in your roster sorting, that's it, the problem's solved. From there you can set up a .txt file or excel sheet or whatever you want, and the problem of losing track of who you were farming tokens on or which character you needed for an event are on your character pages.
    z3b1QJj.png

    The previous login screen also places you on the page of the character you last logged in with, so if you had previously been playing an alt on your 3rd page, next time you quit and go back in, that's the page you're positioned on.

    I will cede that one drawback is that some characters you play, which might be related in some play contexts, might end up arbitrarily far apart if they were made at different times. For example my main DPS', tank, and healer characters for cosmics were on my first page of characters. Meanwhile my CC character for cosmics was on page 9, so that's at least 9 clicks I'd need to go through to switch to that character, usually in times where being fast with character-switching is needed.


    For people like me, there is no way for me to work around this automatic sorting. This is breaking a golden rule of UI design, and that's to keep things in the UI consistent. Especially in video games, where this becomes even more pertinent because of just how strongly-based the activity is in muscle memory.

    This is also a huge deal because there's very much unspoken rules about how some of this works. On paper, having a list that automatically sorts itself seems attractive, true. Ask yourself, though, how many interfaces with extended lists sort their items based on which one you used most recently? The argument of this being consistent with STO's sorted login list pops up a lot, but then consider that the login screen for NW, another cryptic game, doesn't auto-sort. It also isn't something I've run into at all in my experience with other games either. The order of characters I have in games like Dark Souls? That's consistent between sessions. In fact, it's squarely based on creation date. The character that's listed first is the one I created first, and the one that's highlighted by default is the one I played last. Why does that sound so familiar?
    hTMtjyv.png

    Another rule of UI and UX: design the interface by which the user can minimize the number of actions to accomplish what they want. That's the basis of hotkeys. Now consider this scenario: A user swears they had something such as a DUC on one of their old alts. How long does it take to search for this item? On the old model, the user can sequentially look through all characters in their roster linearly, starting from the first page and going to the last. In this model, the sorting system keeps everything in order, so you know exactly who you last logged in with - it starts you at the first page on the character you were just logged in with. In fact you could access every single character if you just consistently kept choosing the last character in your roster... But then, how many clicks does it take for the user to reach the last character? And if you want to create a new character, or design a costume in the login-screen tailor (which has fewer performance issues than the in-game tailor), you have to go all the way through your character list to reach an empty slot. Always, because the login screen always starts you from page 1.

    The thing I find most funny about the change is that it's doing it by a metric that was already both readily visible and easily read by the player: last log-in time is displayed in days, so it's really easy to understand that a character who last logged in 200 days ago has been offline longer than someone who last logged in 120 days ago. Meanwhile, creation date of a character is shown as a specific date: year, month, day, etc. That's an entire sentence you have to read, you can't immediately look at creation date and figure out if October 21 2012 is before or after September 15 2013. Tying back to how it was done before: it was still easy at a glance to tell which character in that list was most recently used: combination of them being the most recently highlighted, and having the lowest last-logged-in time. Even with my knowledge of my own characters I'd be hard-pressed to tell you which one was the 16th alt I created with this new sorting method.


    This change isn't a big deal for players who have a reasonable number of characters, yes. Heck, it probably isn't that big of a deal for those who even might have an unreasonable amount (With the max character limit of 100, players who haven't exceeded that number are guaranteed to only have a max of 8 pages). Let me ask this though, was the previous login screen that unworkable for these players? This is a solution for users that, at least to my understanding, didn't have a major blocking issue to begin with - is that worth the devastation of a marginal user group such as myself?

    But I know there isn't much I can do to change people's minds about it. If they like it, they like it, so I'm happy you appreciate the change.
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  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,424 Arc User
    I still want sort order to to be alphabetical. That way it is semi-static and consistent. It only changes when you add a new character, but you will always basically know where your characters are. E.g. Aardvarkman will always be on page 1 and Zumba Princess will always be on the last.
    JwLmWoa.png
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  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    Alphabetical would be good, coupled with the name of the character displayed on their portrait. Better than this current change anyway.
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  • casualslackscasualslacks Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    I think it's pretty clear is that there is no one size fits all solution to sort order since it's 100% player preference. This raises two questions for me; 1) why make the change at all? and 2) why not give players options? Having no expectation for ever receiving an official answer to these specific questions prompts me to ask the more general question that I'll never get answered: What is Cryptic's direction for Champions Online? This is the same question I've had since last June. Another question I've had since June, who are the players that Cryptic is developing for? It's impossible to do anything but speculate endlessly because there is little transparency.
    Post edited by casualslacks on
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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,315 Arc User
    So in order to solve a shortcoming on the part of the software I'm using, all I have to do is come up with my own proprietary solution in another piece of software??

    And the login system most certainly did not drop me back on the page of the character I'd used last; it started on page 1 every time. (Then again, even if it had, that would have been less than useful during events; I'd have wound up looking at page 3 because I usually play my newest characters, and would have to slide back to page 1 for June, or try to remember which page the others were on for other events - Vincit Omnia used to be on page 2, but wound up on page 1 after I deleted some toons I'd stopped playing, for example.)
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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