test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Give us a Sorcery Healing Form and Support Passive

spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
edited March 2019 in Suggestions Box
Gadgeteering and Celestial aren't really cohesive enough sets yet to get a form since you need a set-specific method for stacking. However Sorcery should totally get one! Kinda surprised we didn't get one with its latest review.

Form: Healing Magic
Stacks when you apply an enchantment or curse. Scales with Intelligence.


Support Passive: Radiant Sorcerer
Increases Magic, Toxic, and Dimensional damage and increases healing%. You give a damage resistance buff to any nearby allies affected by one of your Enchantments.


Now if I was to suggest a healing form for Celestial, I would try to follow the flavor of the support passive it already has.

Form: Emissary of the Divine
Stacks when you apply Illuminate or Fear. Scales with Ego.​​
Post edited by spinnytop on

Comments

  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Form: Healing Magic
    Stacks when you apply an enchantment or curse. Scales with Intelligence.
    Unless there's plans for Presence stacking to have DR similar to damage stats, a healing form that doesn't scale off presence is going to be garbage. Hardly anybody seems to even like Smouldering for this very reason.
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Support Passive: Radiant Sorcerer
    Increases Magic damage and increases healing%. You periodically apply a small amount of healing to any nearby allies affected by one of your Enchantments.
    Literally the same thing as Seraphim/Hearth, except worse across the board because those other two
    1. Boosts Paranormal or Elemental damage whereas yours only boosts Magic specifically
    2. Also provides defense against Paranormal/Elemental and especially Dimensional/Fire, respectively. Yours lists no such defensive bonus for anything
    3. Heals nearby allies with no buff restrictions. Your version only heals enchanted allies.
    4. Don't forget the "gain energy when you take Magic damage" bit, because Seraphim and Hearth do that for Dimensional and Fire damage, respectively

    Passives are generally designed in a way that makes them more versatile compared to the more-specialized forms, and since Sorcery currently synergizes with Seraphim (Magic is Paranormal) and since Sorcery has four support passives of its own already, no Seraphim/Hearth knockoff is really necessary.
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Now if I was to suggest a healing form for Celestial, I would try to follow the flavor of the support passive it already has.

    Support Passive: Emissary of the Divine
    Stacks when you apply Illuminate or Fear. Scales with Endurance.​​
    You spelled "presence" wrong.

    No but seriously, Compassion exists in the Mystic powergroup for both Sorcery and Celestial, and the argument could even be made for healing-oriented Darkness and Infernal. I'm all for extra options, but in order to actually be seen as a useful alternative to Compasion, they need to be break-even in terms of usefulness and scaling. If given the choice between "Form A which scales off a useful stat for healing," vs "Form B which scales off something less useful for healing," people are going to choose A 9 out of 10 times.


    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    aesica wrote: »
    ERMAGERD NO PRESENCE

    *head pats* It'll be okay o3o
    So make a dex-based healing form :)

    Hmmmm... you know that could be on-theme for a Gadgeteering healer form...​​
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    aesica wrote: »
    ERMAGERD NO PRESENCE

    *head pats* It'll be okay o3o
    Not what I actually said, but that's okay I forgive you. Just saying though, most other forms scale with a damage stat. I don't think it's unreasonable to have healing forms scale with a healing stat. Not sure why you are so against this.
    spinnytop wrote: »
    So make a dex-based healing form :)

    Hmmmm... you know that could be on-theme for a Gadgeteering healer form...​​
    Int would actually make a lot more sense. It's not the quick scientist who invents a revolutionary medical device. It's the intelligent scientist.
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    aesica wrote: »
    Not what I actually said, but that's okay I forgive you. Just saying though, most other forms scale with a damage stat. I don't think it's unreasonable to have healing forms scale with a healing stat. Not sure why you are so against this.

    See your mistake is that you think I'm against that. The reality is that I can see where things are going with forms, and I like it for various reasons, so I'm supportive of it. The old way was okay, the new way is better - out with the old, in with the new. What I'm not sure of is why you think repeatedly saying "I don't like this, change it back" the way you've been doing for the past few years is going to have any effect.

    aesica wrote: »
    Int would actually make a lot more sense. It's not the quick scientist who invents a revolutionary medical device. It's the intelligent scientist.

    But you're not inventing the device while you're healing people, you're using it, and medical procedures often require a good amount of manual dexterity. Sure, Int could also make sense, but what I said was that Dex could be on-theme for a Gadgeteering healer form, and you didn't really dispute that.​​
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User
    I'd make a few adjustments as follows:
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Form: Restorative Magic
    Stacks when you apply an enchantment or curse. Scales with Presence or Recovery.

    spinnytop wrote: »
    Support Passive: Radiant Sorcerer
    Increases Magic and Dimensional Damage and increases healing%. You periodically apply a small amount of fluctuating damage resistance to any nearby allies. This effect scales up to its max value when allies are closest to you. Your allies also receive a minor damage resistance boost when near your enchantments. (Effects do not stack).

    spinnytop wrote: »
    Now if I was to suggest a healing form for Celestial, I would try to follow the flavor of the support passive it already has.

    Support Passive: Emissary of the Divine
    Stacks when you apply Illuminate or Fear. Scales with Endurance.​​

    This wouldn't be a good form for healing at all. It'd be perhaps a great energy unlock. I could definitely see something like that being a secondary condition for less energy return for a Celestial EU.

    Something like:

    Energy Unlock - Divine Intervention - Grants XX energy over 3 seconds for 6 seconds when you apply or utilize a healing over time effect on an ally. Applying or utilizing Illuminate or Fear grants a small burst of additional energy. Grants a larger burst of energy if you heal more than one ally with a healing power. Scales with Endurance.

    ^ Could be a good EU. (perhaps too busy though)

    Stacking Healing Form - Celestial's Light - Stacks Divine Light when you heal an ally or apply Illuminate or Fear to a target. Scales with Presence.


  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    I'd make a few adjustments as follows:

    Oh you, trying to sneak Presence in there when you know the whole point is that it doesn't scale off Presence ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    Something like:

    Energy Unlock - Divine Intervention - Grants XX energy over 3 seconds for 6 seconds when you apply or utilize a healing over time effect on an ally. Applying or utilizing Illuminate or Fear grants a small burst of additional energy. Grants a larger burst of energy if you heal more than one ally with a healing power. Scales with Endurance.

    ^ Could be a good EU. (perhaps too busy though)

    Mmm, an energy unlock that procs off of all healing powers in the game with no tie to any power set whatsoever. What wonderful old-timey thinking. :P
    Stacking Healing Form - Celestial's Light - Stacks Divine Light when you heal an ally or apply Illuminate or Fear to a target. Scales with Presence.

    Oh you ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) It's almost like some people think healers just plain don't work if they're not stacking Presence.​​
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User
    Well, you cannot deny (currently) that Presence (and Bonus Healing) is what fuels healing.

    I have no doubt that REC powered healing exists, I've also seen and run Offense powered healing, but those strike me as ALTERNATIVES rather than something which should be forced.

    So omitting Presence from anything related to healing (currently) strikes me as a bit problematic.

    As for the EU, I should have specified that I was referring to Celestial healing effects, not all in general.

  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    See this is what I was sort of getting at with this discussion. Ok so it's 2 toggles for healing here. One scales with Intelligence, and the other with Endurance. Let's see how this pairs up with Smoldering, which others have already brought up:

    Healing Magic: Ok, stacking with curses/enchantments is cool since some enchantments/curses provide some passive healing. It scales with a stat which... Has a spec tree centered around slightly faster recharges and increasing secondary superstat performance, and intrinsically increases energy efficiency, recharge rates, and enemy detection. And this would be paired with a role that already intrinsically increases your energy-management specs by a major amount.
    I'd need some seriously powerful heals-with-cooldowns or high energy costs or something to justify taking this. These aforementioned heals do exist, but they aren't exactly the kind of heals that meld with Sorcery. Also they aren't known for reliability for focus targets.
    Why would I pick this over the healing form that scales with Presence?

    Emissary of the Divine: Fear stacking is alright, but Illumination is just a subset of enchantment/curse, so it's kind of synonymous with Healing Magic unless you're deciding to use more darkness. Also it's scaling with a stat which just increases maximum energy reserves, and has a spec tree mostly focused around maintained offense and being questionably useful and not tying into Critical-heavy mechanics this game fetishizes a lot (which also, by the way, synergize with a ton of heals because of course they would.)
    Why would I pick this over the healing form that scales with Presence?

    Smoldering: Ok so I have to use Fire attacks, and specifically attacks, to stack this form. To get more healing power. Mind you this is also on a set that makes heavy use of targeted heals outside of Absorb Heat. Absorb Heat is great on its own, by the way, and melds perfectly with the expectation of throwing burning effects on enemies all the time, but then how does Nova Flare or Warmth play into that? Also, it's scaling with specifically a stat that is also for energy management once again providing a trait that support role already doubles down on by nature, and then oh lol Compassion also stacks with that exact stat too and then just rewards you doing your healing job with more healing strength.
    Why would I pick this over the healing form that scales with Presence?

    The support-build setup is so straightforward. It's just stacking presence until the end of time, because it gives you everything you need if you want to do healing. Want to do damage? It's your PSS and also the thing that scales-up your toggle, so it provides more damage by nature. Defense? Oh the Presence tree has a spec that grants you defense for using secondary stats. Want to do crits? PRE got's a spec for that too, and you could make one of your SSS's DEX! Woo hoo now you got critical attacks and critical heals! Wait you're short on energy? No problem, we got two auras that help with energy management a ton and just give passive boosts to everyone around you that, by the way, also scale with PRE. And If that isn't quite your cup of tea then you could just get one of the convenient Energy Unlocks that also scale with PRE, and sometimes, because it's just the way the support role works, you have enough energy anyways, so then you can take any other third SSS like CON to survive stuff! Wait, I'm not contributing enough to DPS you say? Ok, I'll just take one of two life-drain attacks and just stand alongside the DPS cluster and keep everyone alive! Hoorah! Or if I wanted to do even more damage, I could take the Shadow Manifestation toggle and do even more ranged DPS. Scaling off my PRE!
    How to block a user with μblock:
    forum.arcgames.com##.Comment:has(.CommentHeader:has-text(username))
    
  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    Support Passive: Radiant Sorcerer
    Increases Magic damage and increases healing%. You periodically apply a small amount of healing to any nearby allies affected by one of your Enchantments.

    also this is pretty cool but it simply cannot dethrone the current PRE hyper-stacking/Aura meta just like everything else that was suggested.
    How to block a user with μblock:
    forum.arcgames.com##.Comment:has(.CommentHeader:has-text(username))
    
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    @bluhman - remember that just because a form scales with something, doesn't mean you have to take that something as your primary super stat, so the current state of a given stat's specs doesn't really matter. My Fire Healer doesn't use Recovery PSS and with the current specs I don't see why anyone would. She's Ego primary ^_^
    bluhman wrote: »
    also this is pretty cool but it simply cannot dethrone the current PRE hyper-stacking/Aura meta just like everything else that was suggested.

    Compassion no longer scales with Presence. There, I dethroned it u3u​​
  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    @bluhman - remember that just because a form scales with something, doesn't mean you have to take that something as your primary super stat, so the current state of a given stat's specs doesn't really matter. My Fire Healer doesn't use Recovery PSS and with the current specs I don't see why anyone would. She's Ego primary ^_^​​

    So then why not suggest making an Ego-scaling healing form? Instead of the cases directly above where I just explained that it's trying to compete against a stat that naturally boosts healing strength and a role that naturally boosts energy reserves?

    Like that'd actually be cool and have use cases. Heck, give me a dang STR-scaling heal toggle that scales up Melee damage to a greater degree than average. Or like Panta said up above, a DEX-scaling one.

    spinnytop wrote: »
    Compassion no longer scales with Presence. There, I dethroned it u3u​​

    then what would it use
    How to block a user with μblock:
    forum.arcgames.com##.Comment:has(.CommentHeader:has-text(username))
    
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    bluhman wrote: »
    So then why not suggest making an Ego-scaling healing form? Instead of the cases directly above where I just explained that it's trying to compete against a stat that naturally boosts healing strength and a role that naturally boosts energy reserves?
    Support boosts equilibrium, so it could work well with Endurance. Also Presence's healing boost is kinda poop compared to what a healing form gives. Presence is strong because it's double dipping with ezmode healing form and auras. As for why I didn't suggest Ego, it's because I didn't, no special reason.
    bluhman wrote: »
    Like that'd actually be cool and have use cases. Heck, give me a dang STR-scaling heal toggle that scales up Melee damage to a greater degree than average. Or like Panta said up above, a DEX-scaling one.
    Sure those are also neat ideas. I actually like the idea of a melee Form that scales off of Presence as well.
    bluhman wrote: »
    then what would it use
    Ego
    14941009612160s.jpg​​
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    spinnytop wrote: »
    See your mistake is that you think I'm against that.
    "Out with the old in with the new!" as you keep saying kind of suggests that, along with the fact that you keep railing against Compassion. Now more mechanics with forms is great, but having them scale with underwhelming stats is not. Compassion isn't better than Smouldering and whatever you suggested because of its stacking mechanics--in truth, Compassion's stacking mechanic actually kind of sucks since you can end up stack-starved if nobody's getting beat up. It's better because it scales with a stat that isn't crap.

    I mean hey, if you want to just go ahead and cry out for every form to scale with endurance or recovery and nothing else, that's fine--at least they'll all be on equal footing if it actually happened. As long as some forms stack with "good stats" and others stack with "bad stats," you're going to have this issue of the "good stat" forms being more popular. There's a very good reason for that.

    Forms already add enough unneeded bloat to the game, as they try to be passives but are less interesting, and they try to be energy unlocks but are less steady with their gains while upping energy costs by an uneeded 10% (lol seriously wtf) when you use them. If you want "offensive healing" forms, all you really need is one that stacks like Form of the Tempest (stacks on critical hits, boosts healing, boosts damage to a lesser degree, scales with presence) to create the same overall benefit as adding one silly specialized form for every single powerset.
    spinnytop wrote: »
    The reality is that I can see where things are going with forms, and I like it for various reasons, so I'm supportive of it. The old way was okay, the new way is better - out with the old, in with the new. What I'm not sure of is why you think repeatedly saying "I don't like this, change it back" the way you've been doing for the past few years is going to have any effect.
    "The old" and "the new" are fundamentally the same in what they do and how they do it. You use your chosen abilities, stacks go up in the background, energy pops out, and your damage increases.

    Let's compare two forms, one old and one new:
    • Concentration: Stacks with almost any ranged attack, scales with your choice of int or ego. Can be used with pretty much all ranged powers.
    • Power Source: Stacks whenever you arc/apply ions/"complete a circuit," scales with end only. Basically, only does stuff when you use electrical powers.

    Someone building an electric character can technically choose to use either power source or concentration. Both will stack automatically in the background while they use their abilities. The only difference is literally "which stat do I want to stack?"

    And yet, Power Source is useless outside Electrical builds (unless you want to tag Ball Lightning onto whatever you're making, but that's tacky AF)

    So...how exactly is "the new" better than "the old?"
    spinnytop wrote: »
    But you're not inventing the device while you're healing people, you're using it and medical procedures often require a good amount of manual dexterity. Sure, Int could also make sense, but what I said was that Dex could be on-theme for a Gadgeteering healer form, and you didn't really dispute that.​​
    Dex could arguably be beneficial for healers, so it's not completely awful. But can I use dex with my auras to benefit my team in another way? No? Okay then, this is why either the auras need to be changed to superstat-only, or these "forms with useless stats" need to either go away or offer a choice between a useful stat (presence) or a useless stat (recovery or endurance)

    Also, you're not "performing surgery" with your gadgets--seriously, good luck performing surgery on somebody while a bunch of thugs are beating them up. You're not laser-scalpeling your targets, you're hitting them with medical nanites and bionic shields to make those repairs for you. You know, a healthy dose of Trek-level BS. You don't need dexterity to deploy a bunch of AI-driven medical nanites, but you do need intelligence to ensure that your nanites' AI is tuned as effectively as possible when you deploy them.
    spinnytop wrote: »
    bluhman wrote: »
    also this is pretty cool but it simply cannot dethrone the current PRE hyper-stacking/Aura meta just like everything else that was suggested.

    Compassion no longer scales with Presence. There, I dethroned it u3u​​
    Pretty sure La Blue Man is talking about how most healers/supports hyper-stack pre so their passive aura can provide the best possible benefit. More importantly though, your passive (compassion is a form, your radiant sorcerer thing was a passive) is literally a worse version of seraphim in every way. I suggest you look at seraphim and figure out something else that would make it actually stand out. Or you could just realize that Sorcery already has 4 support passives, and doesn't really need another.
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Good point, Seraphim should be changed to only boost Dimensional damage.
    aesica wrote: »
    So...how exactly is "the new" better than "the old?"

    You're confusing what's being said. You think I'm saying "this power is better than that power", thinking in the frame of mind of a player who is choosing between two powers. What I'm actually saying is "the new dynamic is more interesting and engaging than the old dynamic" thinking in the frame of mind of a designer who is choosing between two designs. Don't worry, I know you disagree, because you like things simple and not too thinky.​​
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Good point, Seraphim should be changed to only boost Dimensional damage.
    Because people use it so much... oh wait, no-one uses it because it's basically a dps passive that can't be used in dps role.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Good point, Seraphim should be changed to only boost Dimensional damage.
    Because people use it so much... oh wait, no-one uses it because it's basically a dps passive that can't be used in dps role.

    Good point, let's make it increase all damage types, then people will use it more. Oh wait no we first have to pry people away from only using auras on their support toons oops that's the actual problem​​
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Good point, let's make it increase all damage types, then people will use it more. Oh wait no we first have to pry people away from only using auras on their support toons oops that's the actual problem​​
    No, the problem is mostly Compassion. Seraphim provides healing strength and damage. Those things are useful if you don't have sufficient healing strength without the aura (compassion provides more heal strength than you need), and if your general damage output is high enough for it to make sense attacking in the first place (between compassion having a cruddy damage bonus, and being limited to hybrid and support roles, it probably doesn't).
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Eh, 3-3.5k for a healer isn't terrible, considering they're also doing the healing. But yes I agree, Compassion is the problem... because it lets you stack Presence which means you should also slap an aura on that character instead of ever going for another option. Make Compassion not scale with Presence and suddenly Compassion isn't such a huge issue since now it's just a huge heal buff instead of being a huge heal buff + license to aura... oh wait that's my other thread.

    @aesica Made some changes just for you sweety :^)

    Also I'll just restate this for you since I guess you missed it the first time. I suggested that Dexterity could be a possible candidate for a gadgeteering healing form, I didn't say it was the only one, so you can stop arguing so hard that it shouldn't be the only one. I even said that Int could also make sense, and now I've said it twice.​ Do you need more reassurance on this matter? Cause I'm happy to give it o3o​​
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Eh, I'd just remove compassion completely. Or change it to a dps toggle. Perfectly possible to heal enough without it (aside from Eido, perfectly possible to do without Manipulator as well).
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    Eh, I'd just remove compassion completely. Or change it to a dps toggle. Perfectly possible to heal enough without it (aside from Eido, perfectly possible to do without Manipulator as well).

    Another interesting idea, but since they're adding new healer forms I doubt this is a direction they would take .-.​​
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    But yes I agree, Compassion is the problem... because it lets you stack Presence which means you should also slap an aura on that character instead of ever going for another option.
    No, you have it all wrong.
    1. Presence doesn't DR its healing bonus when it should, so healers are already encouraged to stack it from the getgo. It should be given a proper DR just like Might and Ego do for melee/ranged damage, and soforth.
    2. Auras are the main problem because in addition to #1, they encourage you to stack Presence to provide the best possible effect to your team. They really should be "overall total superstats" like other passives.
    3. All forms (except IDF, which is a completely different type of animal) encourage you to lump everything you can into a single stat instead of diversifying. I'd actually argue that they're the worst problem of all because they add little of actual value to gameplay other than, "which of these damned things will line up best with my chosen energy unlock and other powers?"
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Make Compassion not scale with Presence and suddenly Compassion isn't such a huge issue since now it's just a huge heal buff instead of being a huge heal buff + license to aura... oh wait that's my other thread.
    No, that's not going to solve anything, so give it up already. Stacking Presence by itself will still be useful, and people will still "aura" because healing will still be pretty strong even with an off-brand junk stat healing form like Smouldering.

    In fact, the reason why I suspect so many people "aura" is because the benefit is just so much greater than what Seraphim provides. If I'm making a dedicated healer, why do I need extra Paranormal damage? Sure, it has provides passive aura healing ticks, but that healing is so weak that nobody cares about it. And the bonus to healing is nice, but with so many other healing bonuses coming from other sources, it isn't really as useful as, say, free stats, reduced energy costs, increased damage resistance, or an extra damage boost for everyone.

    - - -

    How to dethrone Compassion
    • Give the healing bonus provided by Presence a proper cap, just like the damage bonuses provided by Might and Ego
    • Change support auras to provide benefits based on super stats overall (like how nearly all other passives work) instead of forcing Presence stacking.

    How to dethrone auras
    • Buff the other support passives, so they provide better support-based benefits beyond just "makes muh healing hit harder."
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Sure, that's another way to go. If you actually look at the changes I made, I kind of already started implementing some of your ideas. :^)

    One thing though, the healing bonus from Presence itself isn't really a big deal, and capping it wouldn't really do much other than really killing what makes Presence itself a desirable stat. For example a toon in support role with a ton of presence but no healing form doesn't really heal for an impressive amount, so there's really no reason to cut that back. If anything, once you untie Presence from auras you might even need to buff some of its aspects.

    Also if Auras scale on all super stats they would likely need to be nerfed, but hey that'd definitely be a way to get people to stop thinking they have to take them!​​
    Post edited by spinnytop on
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    aesica wrote: »
    1. Presence doesn't DR its healing bonus when it should, so healers are already encouraged to stack it from the getgo. It should be given a proper DR just like Might and Ego do for melee/ranged damage, and soforth.
    Actually, it does; just like might and ego, it's reduced effect past 70. It's just that forms don't have DR, and there's no universal DR on healing like there is on damage.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    aesica wrote: »
    [*]Auras are the main problem because in addition to #1, they encourage you to stack Presence to provide the best possible effect to your team. They really should be "overall total superstats" like other passives.

    Oh btw, even if you did make auras scale with all superstats, wouldn't your stubborn insistence that healer forms only scale on presence mean healers would still be encouraged to only stack presence? That wouldn't change the meta at all, it would just change some description text.
    aesica wrote: »
    [*]All forms (except IDF, which is a completely different type of animal) encourage you to lump everything you can into a single stat instead of diversifying. I'd actually argue that they're the worst problem of all because they add little of actual value to gameplay other than, "which of these damned things will line up best with my chosen energy unlock and other powers?"[/list]

    Oh and, "how will I stack my form and keep it stacked" is actually a gameplay decision. Sure it's not the deepest decision, but it is a valid one. Definitely more of a gameplay decision than Compassion or Concentration... "I will use heals" and "I will use ranged attacks" respectively.​​
  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 766 Arc User
    Presence is the healing stat, why would any other healing form scale with anything else? They would never use them, there would be no point if they don't scale with the healing stat. Why would you take something that make your heals drastically worse because it gets no healing bonus from the stat?
    [NbK]XStorm
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    nbkxs wrote: »
    Presence is the healing stat, why would any other healing form scale with anything else? They would never use them, there would be no point if they don't scale with the healing stat. Why would you take something that make your heals drastically worse because it gets no healing bonus from the stat?

    Not stacking Presence doesn't make your healing drastically worse, your healing form gives you more than enough. The only reason Presence matters is because it boosts auras. Divorcing Presence from healing forms will be a step towards a meta where auras are an option for healers, rather than a given.​​
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Oh btw, even if you did make auras scale with all superstats, wouldn't your stubborn insistence that healer forms only scale on presence mean healers would still be encouraged to only stack presence? That wouldn't change the meta at all, it would just change some description text.
    Well I'd still prefer to use Presence because obviously, it's the healing stat just like on my dps characters, I prefer to use str, dex, ego, or even int (as PSS) over derpy stats like endurance or recovery. Yet, if I could boost the effectiveness of my support passive of choice by taking something else, it'd be a bit more reasonable to stack, say, ego for a more offensive healer since my support passive wouldn't suffer for it--provided a form for ego existed. As long as auras stack with one stat only and are the most appealing passives, that's what people are going to pick for their healers.

    Let me remind you, there's many different stats that boost damage, yet only one that boosts healing. So if every healer picks that one stat, you shouldn't wonder why.
    aesica wrote: »
    Oh and, "how will I stack my form and keep it stacked" is actually a gameplay decision. Sure it's not the deepest decision, but it is a valid one. Definitely more of a gameplay decision than Compassion or Concentration... "I will use heals" and "I will use ranged attacks" respectively.​​
    Generally no, it's a decision that only exists during the build process. After that, you pretty must just press your buttons and it stacks up automatically in the background. Plus, chances are good you chose one that coincides with your energy unlock of choice, so each time you, for example, apply plasma burn to a target, you get a two-for-one. And since you're probably using things that apply plasma burn if using the plasma burn form and energy unlock, then yeah, it's going to happen with no real thought from you.

    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    aesica wrote: »
    Generally no, it's a decision that only exists during the build process.

    And somebody would have to be mighty foolish to claim that the build process wasn't a big part of this game's core dynamic.​​
Sign In or Register to comment.