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FC.31.20181106.3 - Nighthawk, Andrith Ruins

kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,078 Cryptic Developer
edited November 2018 in PTS - The Archive
Nighthawk
  • Added an UNTIL hoverdisk flight option next to the hawkwing vehicles.
  • Fixed a bug where the alert didn't set players to level 30.
  • Adjusted the scoring to give out points during all parts of the alert instead of just at the final fight.
  • The Franklin Stone alert can be queued from the alert window if you have progressed to the defeat franklin stone portion of the mission or have completed it.




Andrith Ruins
  • We are testing out a bit of tech that converts old content into stuff that's easier for us to edit. Andrith Ruins is our first test run, so please go check the lair out and see if everything is in place.

Some things to note:
  • There are now doors in the Lair that need to be opened to progress. They cannot be interacted with while in combat.
  • Addressed a bug with the magma Golems using their yank ability when they weren't supposed to be.
  • Vikorin's hit points have been increased.




Misc
  • Fixed a bug where Master of the Mind's resistances didn't always apply.
  • Fixed a bug where Master of the Mind's crit chance based on ego leech stacks only applied based on your stacks when initially clicking the power.
​​
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Comments

  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,510 Arc User
    The incoming Andrith SCR farmer's salt

    I'll give this a try when I get home. Hopefully if this succeeds it'll mean Epic Therakiel Lair in the future
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    lezard21 wrote: »
    The incoming Andrith SCR farmer's salt
    "What, we have to actually kill more than 2 critters?!?"

  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 766 Arc User
    Ran it a couple of times, you definitely need a healer now, viko has 3 million hp, and even then it was considerably tough with all four golems blasting you the whole time. I like it, though; good stuff. Doors have a bit of an issue at times, and make it hard to go through. And lock people out when combat starts on the other side of them, otherwise, it's good.
    [NbK]XStorm
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,021 Arc User
    Andrith Ruins
    We are testing out a bit of tech that converts old content into stuff that's easier for us to edit. Andrith Ruins is our first test run, so please go check the lair out and see if everything is in place.
    eyes_1f440.png
    INTERDASTING, perhaps this is the beginning of more epic lairs?
    Nighthawk
    Added an UNTIL hoverdisk flight option next to the hawkwing vehicles.
    Fixed a bug where the alert didn't set players to level 30.
    Adjusted the scoring to give out points during all parts of the alert instead of just at the final fight.
    The Franklin Stone alert can be queued from the alert window if you have progressed to the defeat franklin stone portion of the mission or have completed it.
    URG The nighthawk event again... i guess this time I will have to farming that one (1) alert if I want to get the costumes i skipped last time because I got burned out from overfarming events <_<​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Andrith random mobs are no longer Tough tagged. I assume that's not intended. Lemurian eggs produce very oppressive particle effects when killed and should probably hatch a bit faster (I had to sit there and try for any of them to be hatched). Electric floor plates in Hyrg's room were turned off when I entered (he seems to have a power to turn them on, that's new).

    Hyrg could use some upgrades, 350k hp and 600 (pre-mitigation) dps is a somewhat tedious speedbumb.

    Mobs seem to be respawning.

    "Cannot be opened in combat" seems to actually mean "cannot be opened if any nearby enemies even if they're completely ignoring me". Some indicator of why the interact doesn't show up would be nice.

    At Vikorin's room, 'enter room' is accessible from both sides of the door (and both interacts put you inside the room).

    Vikorin's disable-knock combo doesn't work any more (or maybe it does and no fx and checks knock resistance?).

    Vikorin is soloable but tough (pre-mitigation dps is about 2,000 below 2/3). An invuln tank would chop that down to a tiny amount though, most of the damage is golems spamming conflagration.
    Post edited by pantagruel01 on
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    INTERDASTING, perhaps this is the beginning of more epic lairs?

    You'd hope so. Personally I'd be making standard lairs easier and reducing rewards, then releasing a tougher version as an epic lair, rather than beefing up the difficulty of the standard one to the point where it bears no relation to the standard of the content which leads up to it.
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    This is the first update to really have me curious in a long time. I'd really be up for trying out new-and-improved lairs. Even just having an "epic mode" with about the same content would be cool.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    You'd hope so. Personally I'd be making standard lairs easier and reducing rewards.
    Standard lairs were intended to be 5 man content; they've just been the victim of years of power escalation so they're currently soloable. The endgame lairs don't need to be made easier.

    However, I would probably target the sub-40 lairs. If you unlock Destroyer's Factory at level 29, there is no realistic chance you can find a team of level 29s to do it with you, and most builds cannot solo it at level 29. This leaves it in the unfortunate situation of being impractical to complete at its designed level, and not worth bothering with for higher levels. It should probably either be easier (and people are expected to do it solo or maybe as a team of 2) or pushed up to level 40+ with rewards to match. Same problems for Burial Caves, Teleios Tower, Moreau's Lab, Viper's Nest.

    Removing Tough from enemies would probably drop it to the point where you could label it (2) or (3) instead of (5).
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    Are Telios and Moreau solo content now? Necrull certainly is, Destroyer's Factory possible at 40, the rest less so.

    I would hope they don't make the lairs Challenging Team Content for today's level 40s, though, as it would be a waste of dev time. You can the popularity of this sort of stuff with STE. .

    Anyway, PTS thread, so will take the conversation elsewhere.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    Are Telios and Moreau solo content now?
    You're not likely to solo them at their designed level, but with a few levels advantage you generally can.
    I would hope they don't make the lairs Challenging Team Content for today's level 40s, though, as it would be a waste of dev time. You can the popularity of this sort of stuff with STE.
    The people who complain about the difficulty of StE are people who don't run lairs at all, so the difficulty of the lairs doesn't matter to them. In any case, the sub-40 lairs are currently dead content, so either making them practical to solo or 2-man team at their existing level, or remaking them as endgame content, would be a net gain.
  • lunnylunnylunnylunny Posts: 186 Arc User
    More Epic Lairs would be amazing, though I would wish for more 'inbetween' content, like Save the Earth- which I think is just the perfect difficulty.

    I'm not sure I fully like the Hp increase on Vikorin, but I'm happy the yanks were fixed, those were really annoying sometimes.
  • williamkonywilliamkony Posts: 582 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Nighthawk
    • Fixed a bug where Master of the Mind's resistances didn't always apply.
    • Fixed a bug where Master of the Mind's crit chance based on ego leech stacks only applied based on your stacks when initially clicking the power.
    ​​

    o.o Awesome! I wanted to use that power, but finding that those bonuses didn't work was a major disappointment. So glad to hear that it's getting fixed so soon after having taken an interest in it. :) Thanks a bunch!
    Dasher@Tool-box, donning his armor to prance into battle and blitz the enemy! No joke!
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  • fishswordfishsword Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    .
  • sigmaseven0sigmaseven0 Posts: 714 Arc User
    With regard to Andrith, are we only looking for bugs or are we providing gameplay related feedback too?

    PVP is starving without rewards

    1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
    2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
  • wingedkagoutiwingedkagouti Posts: 565 Arc User
    You'd hope so. Personally I'd be making standard lairs easier and reducing rewards.
    Standard lairs were intended to be 5 man content; they've just been the victim of years of power escalation so they're currently soloable. The endgame lairs don't need to be made easier.
    Andrith was always soloable by an Invul tank/scrapper. I did it once in the beta and a couple of times post-launch. Tedious, but doable (even before the Celestial framework was added to the game). I believe I cheesed Vikorin on one of those post-launch runs, by using a ranged attack to find a sweet spot to avoid the disable.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    The problem with respawning mobs in Andrith is:
    1. There is only one player respawn, at the start of the lair.
    2. Due to Vikorin's mechanics (yank, lava, area damage from golems) ressing in his room is likely to be impractical.
    3. Thus, a defeated character is probably going to need to respawn, at which point they will need to run the entire length of Andrith to rejoin the fight, or even collect rewards if the fight ends without them.
  • morigosamorigosa Posts: 709 Arc User
    Can someone check if the mission to craft the anti-lava device actually works now? (It doesn't, as far as I can tell, do anything on live.)
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    It might be a good idea to list all the intended changes to Andrith. As is I can list the things that look different, but some/most might just be intended.
    • Mobs are respawning.
    • Elements of Lemuria isn't starting (from the Strange Disk in the first room). Not that the mission works well on live, but it at least starts.
    • Mob when leaving the first room is moving around on live, static on PTS.
    • Big crystals in the second sections aren't doing anything now.
    • Golems Vikorin fight have a higher agro range.
    • Golems Vikorin fight are using conflagration.

    In-combat lockout for doors is annoying, since having any pseudopet out counts as being in combat. I would rather have open mission objectives with killcounts.

    I am having my doubts about golem agro mechanics and attacks. Their attacks are quite strong against squishy dps builds. And I don't think a tank can taunt them?

    I think 3M HP is a bit over the top of Vikorin. The lair is used a lot of solo stuff, and it's one of the few places that are soloable but still a bit challenging. With 3M health and the added damage from Golems that is either a team battle (while the rest of the lair is still trivial to solo) or a boring HP grind. In my opinion either Vikorin needs a big nerf, or make it real team content and give the rest of the lair a big buff.
    Post edited by aiqa on
  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,510 Arc User
    Respawning mobs is a bug I hope, since no game ever had respawning mobs in lairs.​​
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,078 Cryptic Developer
    -Respawning mobs is a bug.
    -Lava Golems always had conflagration, they have just been bugged for ages and aren't attacking properly on live.
    -This is a 5 man lair, not intended for solo play.
    -Elements of Lemuria mission is going to be removed in a future patch.​​
  • morigosamorigosa Posts: 709 Arc User
    Three million hit points is, if I recall, about the same health as Cybermind - and even for a full team, he's a tiresome slog to take down. I'd suggest toning it down just a bit.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    kaizerin wrote: »
    -This is a 5 man lair, not intended for solo play.​​

    It's more about the challenge levels going up to much at the bossfight. Of course the bossfight needs to be a bit more difficult than the lair that leads up to it, but not nearly as much as it is now.
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,078 Cryptic Developer
    There is currently a bug where the mobs are not tough tagged, they are easier on pts than intended.​​
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,021 Arc User
    Is the upgraded Andrith Ruins going to be available in the Queue system like Teleios Ascendant?
    Because if the 5 man lair is going to enforced I feel like making it an alert ALONG with the open world lair would be beneficial​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,510 Arc User
    Hopefully the new Andrith will come with new --->NON SCR STORE AVAILABLE<--- drops that encourage people to run it.

    Take that as part of my feedback, if you want people to start participating on certain types of content DO NOT include the rewards from said content on the SCR store, otherwise

    a) people would just farm those rewards by doing other SCR farm
    b) it drops the value of items that drop from that content
    ​​
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    lezard21 wrote: »
    Hopefully the new Andrith will come with new --->NON SCR STORE AVAILABLE<--- drops that encourage people to run it.

    This is still a test run. Far too early to be talking about rewards.​​
  • sigmaseven0sigmaseven0 Posts: 714 Arc User
    @lezard21 so true.
    Ideally, I would like to see lairs to be as viable for gear grinding as monsters.

    PVP is starving without rewards

    1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
    2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,510 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    lezard21 wrote: »
    Hopefully the new Andrith will come with new --->NON SCR STORE AVAILABLE<--- drops that encourage people to run it.

    This is still a test run. Far too early to be talking about rewards.

    Good cause that was a test suggestion o3o​​
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    3M hp is slightly more than TA bosses or warzone OM bosses when scaled to 5 players, but it's not dramatically different. However, if he's not intended to be that level of boss (and his attacks certainly aren't) he probably shouldn't have that level of health either.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    3M hp is slightly more than TA bosses or warzone OM bosses

    What's his defense like? He's a lower rank than those bosses isn't he?​​
  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,510 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    I prefer non FFXII Yiazmat bosses, that is, sponge bosses that have a bajillion Hp, a shitjillion defense and hit like a wet noodle so you just set your gambits on auto and go take a nap.

    Bosses should punish you for not knowing what to do, but should go down fast if you know what to do. A good ingame example are Medusa Clone and Teleios Ascendant.​​
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    spinnytop wrote: »
    What's his defense like? He's a lower rank than those bosses isn't he?​​
    He's legendary rank, same as them, but only level 42 instead of 45 for TA bosses, which makes a slight difference. I don't really have an issue with 3M HP, it's only a grind for Cybermind because we're SKed to level 30 and in a PUG with people who might be level 20 or something, but it shouldn't be on a boss that a competent tank build can solo.
  • riveroceanriverocean Posts: 1,690 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    lezard21 wrote: »
    Hopefully the new Andrith will come with new --->NON SCR STORE AVAILABLE<--- drops that encourage people to run it.

    Take that as part of my feedback, if you want people to start participating on certain types of content DO NOT include the rewards from said content on the SCR store, otherwise

    a) people would just farm those rewards by doing other SCR farm
    b) it drops the value of items that drop from that content
    ​​

    I was going to mention this as well. Right now there's no compelling reason to run an increased difficulty lair. Personally, I don't think the drop needs to necessarily be GCR/SCR.

    It could be any number of items that players find valuable:
    - Costume Change Token.
    - Rare Higher Ranked Mod or Enhancement.
    - A rare costume, skin, or hair drop.
    - % Chance for a random component drop (Diamond, Petrified Scale, Ignimbrite, or Bearing)
    - Retcon Token

    These are just suggestions of drops that could be given outside of GCR.


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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    In general I think lairs should have unique rewards, or people will just figure out which gives the best return per unit time and run that one.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    kaizerin wrote: »
    There is currently a bug where the mobs are not tough tagged, they are easier on pts than intended.​​

    The properly tagged live lair mobs are completely trivial for a team of 5. Even for 1 strong well geared build they aren't any problem. For a less performing build you might want 2 players, but 5 is overkill for the challenge of the lair leading up to vikorin. Mob health could do with a 300% buff and damage with 200%.
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    Not a good idea. Set the normal Lairs in a forgiving way so that people get the idea that these fights (esp. The bosses) have more complexity and more significant mechanics than alerts and the like. Tie rewards to completing mission sets, like Vigilance. There's always been a need for bridging content which rewards regular replay (the increased rewards on each cycle is a good idea, too)
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Boss HP already went up by far more than that. Also I don't really care what challenge level the lair is, but it should be somewhat consistent throughout the lair. At the moment everything leading up to the boss (PTS or live) is just completely trivial compared to the bossfight. As it is they might as well just remove the mobs and just place players at the boss when they enter the lair.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    aiqa wrote: »
    The properly tagged live lair mobs are completely trivial for a team of 5. Even for 1 strong well geared build they aren't any problem.
    Well, there's a limit to what you should expect out of trash mobs. You can solo TA up to the boss stages too. I wouldn't mind seeing updates to Lemurians similar to what we've gotten for the Warzone factions, but that has ripple effects.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    Tie rewards to completing mission sets, like Vigilance.

    This makes sense. Vigilance ensures an ongoing reason to run Custom Alerts. Simply adding unique rewards to the lair only ensures a brief amount of activity until everyone has those rewards, kinda like Eido: Everyone got their shoulders, then interest waned. Making content be of continuing interest to players is something that has been a bit hit or miss.
    Well, there's a limit to what you should expect out of trash mobs. You can solo TA up to the boss stages too.

    That's a very good point. There's a reason they're called trash mobs, they're really just there as filler to extend the time it takes to run the lair. If they were meant to provide an actual rise in the difficulty curve they'd be mini-bosses.​​
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    Actually, I've wanted to have a missions rotation similar to the vigilance cycle for a while. That motivates people to do whatever is the current flavor of the week.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    aiqa wrote: »
    The properly tagged live lair mobs are completely trivial for a team of 5. Even for 1 strong well geared build they aren't any problem.
    Well, there's a limit to what you should expect out of trash mobs. You can solo TA up to the boss stages too. I wouldn't mind seeing updates to Lemurians similar to what we've gotten for the Warzone factions, but that has ripple effects.

    TA mobs are badly balanced too, so not a great example for any future lair reviews.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    aiqa wrote: »
    TA mobs are badly balanced too, so not a great example for any future lair reviews.
    What defines 'well balanced'?
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    aiqa wrote: »
    TA mobs are badly balanced too, so not a great example for any future lair reviews.
    What defines 'well balanced'?

    Having mobs of a somewhat similar challenge level as the rest of the lair. Of course bosses can have a bit of a higher challenge with some interesting mechanics. But for a team that can handle the bossfight, the mobs should do something to. Right now Vikorin (and the TA bosses) are so far above the challenge level of the rest of the lair, the rest of the lair might as well not exist at all. It's just some time filler content.

    Like in TA, the only reason I ever die from the mobs is when I play a squishy dps and completely ignore the tank pulls. I think most people do that and just nuke the mobs with their dps, but imo that is not how "team content" should be played. Soling with that same dps build in Andirth I don't even get below 75% health (PTS or live), until I get to Vikorin. Then on PTS Vikorin himself is doable until 2/3 health, at which point it all falls apart and I am dead in 3 seconds. So in one lair I am seeing a large trivial part, a small challenging part and the end is impossible. If I had a team to help with the bossfight, the rest of the lair wouldn't require any tactics or thoughts at all. So that is not a well balanced challenge level for the lair.
    Post edited by aiqa on
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    • Lemurian eggs keep you in-combat. So you can't use doors until you destroy the eggs that you've been close to.
    • Vikorin's pbAoE knock either only works from 2/3 health onwards, or only works when the disable has been broken. After 2/3 health the statues help break the disable so it's usually broken faster than the knock hits.
    • Not really a PTS specific thing, but something that has always annoyed me. The lemurian sorcerers spam their knock sigils way to fast.
    Post edited by aiqa on
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,069 Arc User
    First and foremost, I'm so damned glad that the Devs are working on this (or any) lair with an eye for bringing it to current. This opens the door, finally, for future lair upgrades.

    5-man lair. It should require a 5-man team just to enter, much like NemCon currently does (right?). Currently, if I crash in TA, if I log back in soon enough, I come back into TA. Same should be available here. It should be fixed to do that in NemCon (currently, you don't come back in, iirc).

    Hyrg. Once defeated, it should set a respawn location in that room, so that when a player wipes at Vikorin, they don't have to run the entire lair length to get back in.

    Rewards. Good suggestions already suggested.

    Cooldown on the lair. Should there be one? An hour? If the rewards are good, then this lair will draw much attention, I believe.​​
    .

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  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    What about massively improving the Master Villain rank mobs--to the point of essentially being mini bosses? I can't remember the name at the moment--something "mothers". They are the large female Lemurians.

    If they were much tougher, it would make a team of five feel useful leading up to Hyrg (who could be tougher) and then Vikorin.
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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    • The door to Hyrg's room gets locked out when the first person enters the room, since you spawn in the middle of a group of lemurians.
    • In-combat detection can get buggy. In the room before the spiral down to Vikorin we had to wait 2 minutes for the door to unlock. The room was completely cleaned out of all enemies and eggs. And without killing anything the door just unlocked on its own after about 2 minutes.
    Post edited by aiqa on
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    The statues are now all attacking from the start of 2/3 health (in the past they had to agro first). This is a huge pain for healers since heal threat will pull them all to the healer. It would be nice if they could be targeted so tanks could use taunts to pull their agro, and healers could use targeted agro wipes.

    It's unclear to me when the statues are supposed to pull you into the lava. When soloing the fight on my tank I did get pulled a few times. But when running it as dps with a friend to tank they never pulled once in two fights. Maybe when they lose LOS of all players?

    Vikorin's charge attack could do with a big buff. Most of the damage in that fight is from the statues which you wont block anyway, and the one charge attack from the boss is so weak no decent tank would block it either. It would be nice if the tank at least had to block one attack.
    Post edited by aiqa on
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    When I parsed, Vikorin's raw dps was 600. The statues were 350 each. Hyrg also does 600 dps, which makes me think that's fairly standard for a 2009-era Legendary, but it's really not much by the standards of 2018 players.
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,078 Cryptic Developer
    -Vikorin does not use a knockback on the first phase of the fight.
    -The golem pull is not something they use in their attack rotation (this was a long standing bug on live), it's triggered by Vikorin's aoe disable and only occurs during phase 3 of the fight.​​
This discussion has been closed.