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So just tried the meta Dex build

chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,655 Arc User
in Power Discussion
I'm currently using the Dragon's Claw build since it hasn't been changed yet. But wth, it is so OP! I mean, seriously, you can dish out 23K+ crits with just one attack and because of Steadfast+DEX+Broke FotT stacks you'll never run out of Energy. So you can just continue spamming. Makes me feel like my Str/Con dps is trash even though it can compete with most other dps.

Geez, DEX build really feels like an easy mode dps. It takes me back when Ego Surge still had a con/crit chance adv. I'm literally green with envy right now. Kinda wish that DEX(or it's Crit Chance) would be nerfed so STR can shine a little brighter.

Now I see why the majority break theme just to reach this kind of damage. Still prefer Enrage though even after the growth nerf.
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Comments

  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 791 Arc User
    I tried fiddling with a STR Dragon Claws build with Inexorable Tides for the knock every so often. Didn't stand up to the Dex build.​​
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 11,193 Arc User
    I think many are expecting that when it gets a pass, FC will either get nerfed in optimal ST dmg and/or its rotation will be made harder to get that sort of dmg, since single-target dmg is pretty much all FC has atm. I expect it to get buffed in other areas, cause the set itself is kinda anemic as is for its unique powers (just the end builder, a form, and 4 attacks: VF, R&T, DC, and TB;- vs. for ex, >10 unique attacks + extra utility powers for the revamped SB).
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    It's been a while like that, I feel you​​
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  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,655 Arc User
    flowcyto wrote: »
    I think many are expecting that when it gets a pass, FC will either get nerfed in optimal ST dmg and/or its rotation will be made harder to get that sort of dmg, since single-target dmg is pretty much all FC has atm. I expect it to get buffed in other areas, cause the set itself is kinda anemic as is for its unique powers (just the end builder, a form, and 4 attacks: VF, R&T, DC, and TB;- vs. for ex, >10 unique attacks + extra utility powers for the revamped SB).

    It's not just FC that bothers me. It's the whole Dex Focus build meta. Any melee dps can reach high dmg thanks to high crit, FotT, and literally any single target charge power. I want the devs to consider nerfing Dex a bit or buffing non-crit builds so they can be on par. I mean that's why they fixed Ego surge and Wardicator, right? For balance?
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  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,409 Arc User
    I was actually shocked when I tried Tiger Bite and, even on crit, it was generating a higher damage tick than Dragon's Claw, so that might also be part of the meta.

    Of course using TB is also foregoing the rush buff, lower energy cost, and the circumstances I was using TB under was also combining it with usage of Viper Claws and the Setup Spec (raises damage significantly after using combos for a while, and VC sets up shred perfectly for TB.) Just mentioning, that possibly could be more meta/generate higher DPS than just pure Dragon Claw spam.

    But yeah! DC! OP! Still is ever since melee became viable in like 2011.
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 11,193 Arc User
    Well, the issue there is that Dex is designed to be more of a raw output stat. FotT may also be a nice universal toggle for melee, but its still pretty rng-based so I wouldn't always recommend it (unlike ES/NM in its heyday, where there just wasn't any alternative anywhere near its potential).

    Perhaps they could consider lightening the DR on Ego and Str's innate dmg bonuses if they think this is a real issue, but they have to be careful w/ that dial. Imo, Dex should still remain at the top if its focus is still on supplementing raw output, but other options can ofc also be competitive in that dimension.
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  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,655 Arc User
    flowcyto wrote: »
    FotT may also be a nice universal toggle for melee, but its still pretty rng-based so I wouldn't always recommend it (unlike ES/NM in its heyday, where there just wasn't any alternative anywhere near its potential).

    Form of the Tiger isn't really rng-based. You get a Focus stack per 60% charge.
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  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 791 Arc User
    I think he was referring to FotT as Form of the Tempest. That one is RNG based.​​
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 11,193 Arc User
    warcanch wrote: »
    I think he was referring to FotT as Form of the Tempest. That one is RNG based.​​
    Yea, I thought that's what he meant. But sure, FotTiger is the better choice for DC spam, but I guess that's just a tangent here after all

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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,419 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    But it's balanced by the fact that it's super boring!

    I love when people who religiously use DC also point out how boring it is... shows you what some people's priorities are ;3​​
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  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,655 Arc User
    nightfighterbeau wrote: »
    chaosdrgnz43 wrote: »
    I mean, seriously, you can dish out 23K+ crits with just one attack

    1. Stop the lies please, <23k+ crits> you don't need to lie to validate your opinions.
    2. In relative to your opinion on Critical chance in comparison to pre ego surge adv - DEX is the most pathetic of all Super States to scale crit chance. In fact, most people never SS Dex because gamblers scale better to crit chance and completely invalidate the need to go DEX SS when Strengths super stat offers so much more utility. Asking for the worst SS in the game to be nerfed is beyond retarded.
    3. Coming to the forums as another "Pantagruel nerf bunny" because you had what alcoholics refer to as a, "moment of clarity" on PTS, asking to nerf to a power that has been here for 9 years is beyond cliche.

    Had you any real understanding you would know Dragon Claws is absolute crap when compared to other melee powers since most of Dragons Claws damage gets mitigated. And going pure DEX to scale damage is suicide as it offers 0 survivalist ability as compared to Juggernaut in the strengths tree.

    So enough already with the xxx should be Nerfed because I want my xxx to be better.




    Feels like your one of those Dex users who want to keep their dmg. 23k+ is often if you have the AoED buff, but that still doesn't change the fact that Dex is still real powerful on its own. Calling it "pathetic" is a laughable excuse. If it was real pathetic, then why do most top dps I see use it? No matter how you defend it, Dex is quite exploitable.
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  • theglasskittentheglasskitten Posts: 175 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Dex is a very powerful stat but this is not necessarily due to the stat itself. Dex crit rating diminishes hard around 40%. Most dexers will have around that amount before specs and powers are taken into account.

    The larger issue is that anything that gives a % instead of a rating is not effected by diminishing returns. This means most dexers are running over 50% crit as a baseline when specialization trees are taken into account.

    Now when you add in abilities such as lock n load, imbue, ego surge etc you have people who are averaging out 60-70% crit chance.

    This whole situation feeds right into dragon claws strength which is it’s innate critical severity and why it is vastly over performing.
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  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 691 Arc User
    Don't worry, DC/DW are the only things that have this nonsense. Once the claws adjustments come around(combined with the massive changes to NW), claws will probably go from the top, way down to the bottom without it's +severe, which will be gone.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,419 Arc User
    nightfighterbeau wrote: »
    "Pantagruel nerf bunny"

    ...is this an actual thing that people say? xD​​
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  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 978 Arc User
    chaosdrgnz43 wrote: »
    I'm currently using the Dragon's Claw build since it hasn't been changed yet. But wth, it is so OP! I mean, seriously, you can dish out 23K+ crits with just one attack and because of Steadfast+DEX+Broke FotT stacks you'll never run out of Energy. So you can just continue spamming. Makes me feel like my Str/Con dps is trash even though it can compete with most other dps.

    Geez, DEX build really feels like an easy mode dps. It takes me back when Ego Surge still had a con/crit chance adv. I'm literally green with envy right now. Kinda wish that DEX(or it's Crit Chance) would be nerfed so STR can shine a little brighter.

    Now I see why the majority break theme just to reach this kind of damage. Still prefer Enrage though even after the growth nerf.

    So... when you say Dex build, are you saying that you took DEX PSS?
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  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,655 Arc User
    pwestolemyname wrote: »
    chaosdrgnz43 wrote: »
    I'm currently using the Dragon's Claw build since it hasn't been changed yet. But wth, it is so OP! I mean, seriously, you can dish out 23K+ crits with just one attack and because of Steadfast+DEX+Broke FotT stacks you'll never run out of Energy. So you can just continue spamming. Makes me feel like my Str/Con dps is trash even though it can compete with most other dps.

    Geez, DEX build really feels like an easy mode dps. It takes me back when Ego Surge still had a con/crit chance adv. I'm literally green with envy right now. Kinda wish that DEX(or it's Crit Chance) would be nerfed so STR can shine a little brighter.

    Now I see why the majority break theme just to reach this kind of damage. Still prefer Enrage though even after the growth nerf.

    So... when you say Dex build, are you saying that you took DEX PSS?

    Yes actually. Still pretty good even when others suggest STR PSS. The Expose Weakness is good for a crit monkey spammer.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,913 Arc User
    nightfighterbeau wrote: »
    GG Pantagruel, your lil fanbois win <ruin the game> I blame you since you're the Omega that started all of this 9 years ago. You suck.
    Huh? The first turbo-nerf to hit CO was the launch day patch, at which point I was a total newbie since I didn't play during beta. I'm curious who you were to think you know stuff about 9 years ago, though, that account appears to be from 2015...
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  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 809 Arc User
    It's not like dragon's claws was ever not getting nerfed. When claws get a pass, rush will become an advantage (at the very least). So, I'm not sure what is with all the blame-flinging and salt shaking.

    Some folks do take relentless over steadfast though. I guess the fact that it gives energy over time, instead of in a big clump just makes for a smoother energy curve.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,419 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    nightfighterbeau wrote: »
    I just get frustrated seeing everyone feed the one "nerf, sarlac hungry dev" we got instead of encouraging new content.

    I mean sure... if you ignore the fact that every powerset that has been touched has been buffed overall. Once you recognize that fact you realize that you've been chasing phantom nerfherders this entire time.
    nightfighterbeau wrote: »
    You all just keep feeding this mechanism because of some stupid dps charts on cosmic runs that somehow slights your egos.

    Wouldn't someone with scoreboard ego be using a DC/dex build and fighting for it to stay as is?

    The answer is yes. So it's funny how that's you atm.

    nightfighterbeau wrote: »
    GG Pantagruel, your lil fanbois win <ruin the game> I blame you since you're the Omega that started all of this 9 years ago. You suck.

    If Panta is responsible for what's been happening to the game then I'd like to join his fanclub. Where do I go to do that? o3o I'd love to be a Pantabunny.​​
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,913 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    it's people confusing cause and effect. The sequence is:
    Something is OP
    I say it's OP (or maybe I don't, plenty of stuff I don't notice and/or comment on).
    It gets nerfed (sometimes months or years later).

    Clearly my fault
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  • paradise1killerparadise1killer Posts: 10 Arc User
    Did anyone get close to 24k crits with Dragon claw I tried this on test server with justice gear and I am getting no where close to this.. Has it been nerfed?

    I have way easier time with power armor getting 24k + consistantly but it has a set up time
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  • theglasskittentheglasskitten Posts: 175 Arc User
    Most dragons claw users crit in the 13-16k area on test dummies. Consistency is the key
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  • shredmonkey#6879 shredmonkey
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         Posts: 60 Arc User
    I always thought the upsides to DC spam were meant to balance the fact that the animation looks so dorky.
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