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Make Freeform Free
dimitrik
Posts: 26 Arc User
It's time for it.
Whenever something like this gets said, there's always a rush of the same sort of rebuttal: "You want everything for nothing!" Let me just get in front of that - I'm a Lifetimer. Have been for a while now. And I genuinely do not feel that other people getting to play Freeform characters would damage my experience in any way. But locking people out of subscribing and putting a paywall in front of having just one Freeform likely will.
I understand the reasoning behind it, but I've been hearing a lot of negativity from previously steady subscribers now being locked out of characters they really liked. And the big appeal to being on a game like this - and indeed, the way the game was/is advertised - is that you build the character YOU want. Archetypes were never in line with that vision. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying remove Archetypes. I understand there were some subscribers who preferred to play them. But the overall impact of this transition is more limiting than liberating, and I'm concerned you're going to lose more people than it brings in. However, opening up Freeform would be a massive boon.
When it comes to the longevity of a game, one of the golden rules to remember is that players are content. No one wants to play on a ghosttown. What I'm suggesting is opening up the game to a lot more people, retaining current players, bringing in interest from new players, and maybe giving your staff the opportunity to focus on real expansion and development, rather than producing more Archetypes. Again, don't get me wrong, I like that the Powersets have been getting touch-ups and I realize the Archetype releases have been a part of that. Please don't think this is a hate-post.
A possible way to do this would be to make Freeform available, but lock out power-tinting, and projection-points (deciding where the projection is coming from, like the hand, head, etc) behind pay. Maybe make extra builds past the second one also a buyable thing.
Just something I hope you'll consider, moving forward.
Whenever something like this gets said, there's always a rush of the same sort of rebuttal: "You want everything for nothing!" Let me just get in front of that - I'm a Lifetimer. Have been for a while now. And I genuinely do not feel that other people getting to play Freeform characters would damage my experience in any way. But locking people out of subscribing and putting a paywall in front of having just one Freeform likely will.
I understand the reasoning behind it, but I've been hearing a lot of negativity from previously steady subscribers now being locked out of characters they really liked. And the big appeal to being on a game like this - and indeed, the way the game was/is advertised - is that you build the character YOU want. Archetypes were never in line with that vision. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying remove Archetypes. I understand there were some subscribers who preferred to play them. But the overall impact of this transition is more limiting than liberating, and I'm concerned you're going to lose more people than it brings in. However, opening up Freeform would be a massive boon.
When it comes to the longevity of a game, one of the golden rules to remember is that players are content. No one wants to play on a ghosttown. What I'm suggesting is opening up the game to a lot more people, retaining current players, bringing in interest from new players, and maybe giving your staff the opportunity to focus on real expansion and development, rather than producing more Archetypes. Again, don't get me wrong, I like that the Powersets have been getting touch-ups and I realize the Archetype releases have been a part of that. Please don't think this is a hate-post.
A possible way to do this would be to make Freeform available, but lock out power-tinting, and projection-points (deciding where the projection is coming from, like the hand, head, etc) behind pay. Maybe make extra builds past the second one also a buyable thing.
Just something I hope you'll consider, moving forward.
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Steady subscribers haven't been locked out, have they? I was under the impression that occasional subscribers have had that issue.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
My understanding is that if you haven't cancelled your sub and it hasn't run out, it keeps going.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
'Free For All. Not All For Free.' -unknown hero
And you can earn FreeForm, for free. Just earn enough Zen. You know the existence of Premium Pack?
And as long as you keep your subscription going, you got stuff you had before and keep on playing as you did before. (not counting the bugged things that were removed.)
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
This is a big journey, so far if you're reading this, wish you a good day
That's interesting, and I wasn't aware of it. I'm happy for the people who can maintain their subscription throughout, but one hiccup, one lapse, and it's locked? With the only recourse being to buy slots piecemeal? That's going to decrease the Freeform availability by necessity, and in my perspective, interest in the game.
Sigh. No one is asking for everything to be free. It's kind of weird that you'd even put that in there, given what you quoted me on. But hey, I called it in my first paragraph.
You could earn Freeform, for free, even before they rolled out this change. Just earn enough Zen, like you said. But let's really take a look at that. People used to be able to subscribe to unlock all of their Freeform characters at any time. Now, they can choose to spend nearly $30 to unlock one Freeform, or get to grind. Non-Lifetimers/continued subs can refine a total of 8000 Zen (if I'm not mistaken) per day. At a rate of 50 Questionite per 1 Zen (a ratio we're not likely to ever see again), you're looking at 160 Zen per day. That's grinding to your maximum payout for 15 days - at the current discounted rate of a single Freeform slot. Yes, I know you can refine your max cap per alt, but that's going through the same grind, but on a different character. That improves things, but not by much. Good luck with that pitch.
If we're talking about bringing in new players (which management should always be striving for), it gets even worse. They have the choice of either paying double the price of a standard subscription for a single Freeform slot, or entering an even worse grind. New accounts get two character slots (if I recall correctly), and if we go by current exchange rates (442 Questionite to 1 Zen), they're earning 18 Zen a day. Weigh that against the cost of a single Freeform slot at 3,000 Zen, you're looking at about 166 days of grind. If they do it on both characters, 83 days of grind. And that's assuming max earnings. For one slot. Again, I bid you the best of luck with that pitch. You're selling torture, or at best, burnout.
You can sell power tinting and power origination points by themselves as well as in the Premium Pack. But the point is player retention and bringing in new people. Freeforms, that is, the ability to freely choose your character's powers and build, including the two powers that Archetypes simply don't get*, can do that.
*Unless that's changed.
You're asking for a big ticket item to be free. You're really in no place to get upset when Finn whips out the old quote on ya.
You say "People can pay twice the price of a subscription for one character slot" but that's fudging the details. That price of one character slot only gets you 2 months if you spend it on a sub, while the slot is permanent. Not only will you never lose access to it, it will also never generate more revenue.
Really the bottom line here is that Freeform already is free, unless you choose to pay for it. 83 days isn't long, that's less than three months and you're forgetting sales. Once you remember sales, then it's only 42 days, a little under a month and a half.
I played this game for about 4 years with just Archetypes and I had a lot of fun, so that's pretty good player retention. Nearly all of that was back when we didn't even have FF slots. In that time someone could grind out 16 slots, 32 if they wait for sales.
You're basically in the unfortunate position of being the guy suggesting we get more(*) more when we just got a lot. Price of Freeform went down by nearly half, we can finally buy power tinting without subbing, and character slots are dirt cheap. Not only did we get a lot, we got stuff we were pretty sure we were never getting. You picked just about the worst time to write an essay suggesting we get(*) even more.
* - edited to make OP happy.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Pardon me while I refuse to be strawmanned. I'm suggesting (italicized because this is going to come up again later) Freeform be free. Not everything. I would consider it a valid response if I were actually asking for everything, as that's literally what was being said, but I wasn't.
Only gets you two months, and all of your Freeforms, not to mention all of the perks of a subscription. If we're going to talk about not fudging details, let's keep perspective. If you go to any other MMO and pay half the cost of a single Freeform on here - granted, when not on sale - you get everything unlocked. And according to this playerbase not so long ago, they're perfectly fine with that. But now, you pay double that price for one slot, minus the additional perks of what subscribing brought.
I take contention with your position that it's going to generate revenue. Continuing subscriptions aren't a change in revenue. Dropping the subscription model for those who lapsed is a decrease in revenue. The price of a Freeform slot, minus any other perks, is less likely to appeal to people than it is for people to just subscribe somewhere else and have everything the game offers. The last part is my opinion, yes, but my projection on this business model is very bleak.
That's the reason I made this suggestion.
Highlighted for emphasis.
If that's your genuine belief, you and I disagree on a very fundamental level and will just have to agree to disagree. As I said before, best of luck with that pitch.
(1) If your position is that the game is healthy and fine in terms of player retention, we're going to have to agree to disagree again. But the goal also needs to be bringing in new players.
(2) Suggesting. Words matter. I am not demanding anything.
(3) Don't get me wrong, I absolutely see this as a good thing. It's something I wanted for a very long time. But it is my belief that new players and lapsed subscribers aren't going to look at power tinting as the reason to come to or stay on the game. Happy to be wrong about that, but that's why I'm making this suggestion.
(4) Actually, I believe it's a really good time for it. A fundamental shift in a business model like this is generally not indicative of a healthy business. In fact, it usually means that what's been attempted isn't working - like when a game goes from subscription only to a F2P model. My suggestion is a radical one, yes, but one that I strongly believe would result in a higher playerbase. You make more earnings from a larger market.
(5) Again, suggesting.
Well now you're strawmaning because I never said you were saying everything should be free, I specifically said "a big ticket item".
(2)(5) Also, asking... suggesting... not sure why you think anyone will see a meaningful difference there. In fact suggesting sounds kinda worse. "I asked someone to get me a beer". "I suggested to someone that they get me a beer". Second one definitely sounds worse, you should've gone with asked.
(4), subs weren't axed for reasons specific to CO, and for (3) nobody claimed anyone was coming back or staying for the premium pack, but a bunch of people definitely bought it so the pack was 100% successful and a huge deal for many people. I guess you don't care for it, but for many people it fulfills a request that was being made yearly since the game went F2P so that's objectively a big deal.
Oh and (1) that's not my position, that's the position of the people who run the game. It's been said many times that CO makes enough to keep itself running, and for a game like this that's a good place to be. It's a fantasy to think this game will see any big growth, and it's asking a bit much considering that a few years ago it was dead in the water.
Also since you like highlighting I'll do some too:
Once you remember sales, then it's only 42 days
I noticed you conveniently forgot that number and only focused on the other one, when this one is actually the more relevant one since the majority of FF slots are bought on sale.
And with the subs, you get access to all of your freeforms but only for two months whereas the FF slot is permanent. And in those other MMOs with a subscription, it also doesn't give you everything forever, that's kind of the point of a sub - you gotta keep paying.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I focused on 83 days, because you yourself said that it wasn't very long. That's a strong indicator that you and I will not agree on these metrics at all, which is why I was fine with agreeing to disagree. But for the sake of argument, 42 days of grinding is also a, "Good luck on that pitch," moment.
Suggesting is in no way the same as demanding. Suggesting is a recommendation. Demanding comes with the connotations of entitlement, stamping one's feet, and usually a puffy ultimatum. That is not what's happening here. Calling a suggestion a demand is very misleading. Let's not forget this is the "Suggestions Box," after all.
As for your position vs. that of the game - I disagree with basically everything you've said, and won't be taking your word on behalf of the company. I mean no offense with that, but you don't work for them. I've covered my stance on this, the Premium Pack, sales opportunities, etc. in previous posts.
Anything I didn't directly address here from your post has been covered already. I appreciate that you don't like this suggestion, but I feel like we're talking past each other at this point. Your post reads as pretty heated, and I have no intention to let this derail into an argument. I'm happy to agree to disagree.
I don't think this needs to be done. Cryptic have already put out a Premium Pack and options to purchase additional slots.
Whilst I do not agree with the potential lockout for lapsing on your sub and that being permanent (if it is)...it is a person's responsibility to be in control of their finances, not Cryptic's.
(If the issue is not a lack of funds but instead is a payments portal issue, then it does lie with the providers to sort that out)
Equally, those who have an issue with the way CO has stopped new subs, could (if they really wanted to), save up and purchase lifetime.
I started this game in Beta for a few weeks, left for ages, came back as Silver and desperately wanted to try Gold, but at the time my finances were not in order (like omg), fortunately a very kind soul bought me a month of Gold out of nowhere and I soon got my finances in order and purchased Lifetime in 2012.
I definitely appreciate that this is a GIANT change of service from Cryptic to its customers for CO, but they are well within their rights, no matter how unfair I think it comes across (although, based on the uproar it originally caused, it could have been a lot worse).
My Characters on PRIMUS
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Finn doesn't have to change the quote he's been using for years just to spare your feelings. He's more important than you are, and you'll have to learn to live with that. He's a darling of the CO community and you're just some guy with a blank avatar ~3~
You seem confused so I'll clarify things for you. I'm not pitching an idea, I'm telling you how things are. You're the one pitching an idea remember? You're the one who has to convince people, not me. The thing I'm suggesting has been in place for years and players have been doing it for years, so no convincing needed.
And on that note, your only supporting statement to the claim that it's too long of a time is that in your opinion it's too long. Not very convincing.
Fine, I went back and changed demanding to suggesting just to make you happy. Notice how it doesn't put you in a better position? The verb was never the issue there.
That's fine. You'll encounter that information on your own eventually then. I kinda doubt your stance will change based on that information anyway.
Oh, you misunderstand my friend. I've been making the suggestion that players should have free access to Freeform for years. Years and years I've suggested this, with much longer posts than yours full of way better reasoning than you've given. Shortly after the subs change was announced I even posted several suggestions on how former subscribers should get access to several Free Form slots for free, though I'm happy to admit that some my posts were worded a bit more towards the demanding side of things because I felt it was warranted.
Why if you go back over this very thread you'll find that I at no point said that players getting access to FF for free was a bad idea. Oh, you thought you were fighting me on that front? No my friend, I was simply pointing out the futility of it as a suggestion at this moment in time when the folks who run things gave us so much in regards to this very issue so recently. My hope was that you would take note of this and realize that putting a lot of effort into this and making long impassioned arguments would be largely a waste of time but... oh, oops!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Thanks for weighing in. Couple things stand out to me on this.
I want to be clear - I'm not saying Cryptic doesn't have a right to make whatever business choices it lands on. I'm not saying it's on Cryptic to bear anyone's financial burden. I do believe it has an obligation to itself as a business to try to be as successful as it can, moving forward. All I'm offering is a suggestion that's, in my purview, a good way of doing it.
Do you feel the Premium Pack offers enough value to bring in new players? Do you feel that it has enough value to retain previous subscribers who no longer have access to their Freeforms, versus letting them have access to their Freeforms and selling the Premium Pack/its various perks separately?
According to what I've been told by previous subscribers, and what I recall from the announcement, it's correct. New subscriptions are no longer a thing, and if a subscription lapses, they're locked out. If anyone knows differently, I'm happy to be corrected. It'd make this suggestion moot.
Though I think we disagree, I appreciate your viewpoint.
You're forgetting current players who have never been subscribers or lifetimers. They represent the largest group benefiting from the Premium Pack.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Why isn't there 1 FF slot? All it would take is one to make alot of people happy. All the stuff of premium and the FF slot, even if they didn't find the ability to pick and choose whatever skill they want as they level as enthralling as me, they'd still have all that additional stuff in the package to play with.
Epic Stronghold
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*psst* Don't you think giving new players a taste of FF would bring altaholics in droves to make dozens of different hero's?
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
people that have been in the game since 2009 would get 9 instant freeform slots and an additional slot every year afterward. this would promote staying in the game and is a perfect solution to those that lost sub as well as making a goal for new players that just joined the game.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I'm surprised they didn't give a FF slot for the anniversary as a gift.
Considering the price for FF was dramatically slashed, and the fact that FF slots seem to go on sale more frequently than before, I'm not seeing them ever being offered for $0.00. Remember, subscriptions are gone for the most part. And while some legacy players may still be subscribed, that number is going to dwindle over time.
Businesses that don't make a profit, close down. And really, when you compare CO to other games, we get a helluva lot for very little $$$. You can play CO entirely for free if you want. And if you're really industrious you can farm Q and convert it to zen for a FF slot. This is the most generous game I've played when it comes to offering content and features for FREE.
That's per toon if you have 6 toons say you can earn 6 times that and transfer the q or just convert to zen.
Multiple accounts. Many people would just make a new account for each free slot.
I wouldn't mind the ability to farm FF by the questionite to zen method as long as 2 things happened.
1. remove the limit of questionite you can refine per day.
2. add Zen directly to the questionite store to keep prices of zen from inflating to astronomical amounts.
#2 also lets players always have a way to earn them. you see in games like neverwinter no one sells zen anymore so the exchange is dead there. if you added a direct sale link in the questionite store this won't happen in CO. probably list it at like 500 questionite per 1 zen.
There really is very little in game that you cant grind out.
=Pieces of Stuff=Knock Dead=Cruel Yule=Cremator=Toys from the Attic=
=Gnosis Arcanum=Twenty Seven=Kama D=Critic=Creep Freeze=
=Mangled Man=G.I. John Doe=2D.=Lung the punch drunk monk=
=By the sword=Scild Truma=Shadow Puppet=Lu-7=Erysichthon=
=Nimravid=Buzzard Kill=Lorenzini=Schema=
only as long as other players are willing to sell zen. go look in neverwinter, its the perfect example of why the method eventually fails.
LTS is the only thing i think, they should add that to the zen store.
if they did at the rate zen is worth 100 per 1 dollar then it would be 300,000 zen for lifetime. good luck earning that with modern restrictions you can refine about 50 zen worth of questionite a day per character, even if you have all 100 characters open and assuming you can get enough questionite in 20 hours on all of them to hit that refining cap... that's 600 days of farming... with that same amount of zen you could unlock all 100 character slots freeform, so what would be the point?
you could offset the cost, and you would wait till it was on sale. you can also but q boxes with in-game currency. some of the zen could be zen you bought. never underestimate the willpower of a cheapskate.
To revisit the original purpose, I'm looking at a way to retain the subscribers who've lapsed and can no longer subscribe to unlock their Freeforms. I'm also looking at bringing in new players to the game. Being able to build a character exactly the way you want it is a huge deal in MMO's.
I absolutely agree that it's a big ticket item. But where some seem to view it as the only viable means of generating revenue for the game, I see it as the single best way to grow the game. I understand on its head, it could seem counter-intuitive. But in my view, opening Freeform will bring in a sizeable influx of new players and satisfy the previous subscribers (thus keeping them from becoming disenfranchised and moving on), and you sell more products to a bigger market. As it stands right now, I'm very concerned you're going to see the population shrink even further.
The suggestion of putting a single FF slot in the Premium Pack isn't a bad one, in my opinion. I understand your logic, and it might be a fair compromise. I'm not sure it'd be enough to keep new players hooked or satisfy previous subscribers, but it's something.
Yes, most everything can be earned through grinding. If you want the hard numbers on that, I did the math further up the board. In my opinion, pitching that to a new player is an uphill battle wearing grease shoes. I accounted for the multiple alts, as well. Removing the Questionite refinement cap might be a step in the right direction, but it doesn't stop the grind from being a grind. The number of hours needed to grind would just pile on top of itself, rather than be spread out over however many months. It's an improvement, but only a slight improvement, in my opinion.
Thanks for taking the time to comment on this, guys.
Tried NW and STO. Uninstalled them. 1 Zen usually goes for 450 to 465 roughly. Events cant drive cost up but I haven't seen much change otherwise. I only been here a few years but I do have a lot of hours logged.
=Pieces of Stuff=Knock Dead=Cruel Yule=Cremator=Toys from the Attic=
=Gnosis Arcanum=Twenty Seven=Kama D=Critic=Creep Freeze=
=Mangled Man=G.I. John Doe=2D.=Lung the punch drunk monk=
=By the sword=Scild Truma=Shadow Puppet=Lu-7=Erysichthon=
=Nimravid=Buzzard Kill=Lorenzini=Schema=
again why? you could use that same time waiting for a sale to wait for the freeform slots to go on sale and get them cheaper... with no more monthly special costume and no more advantages other than that 500 zen monthly stipend and the ability to make every character freeform. there isn't anything special enough to save all that time for it when you can use the same amount of zen to get all those freeforms unlocked.
it's as pointless as pushing your car to work every day to save gas money.
that sounds like Grinding in MMO in general
no grinding in an MMO is like going to work everyday so you can make enough money to afford your car that takes you to work every day.
pushing your car to work every day so that you don't need to buy gas is more like paying a gold farmer to play the game for you because you don't want to go through the headache of having fun playing the game yourself.
I think you are taking this more serious than I.
I agree. I don't think anyone is contending that, though.
You are however talking about making one of those profitable microtransactions free.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained