test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
OV Adjustment for Fair Play
tilarta
Posts: 291 Arc User
I've been playing the Onslaught Villian mission a lot in order to unlock one of the supervillian powers from the OV vendor/store.
But lately I've noticed a high degree of selfishness in players seeking their Guardian tokens.
They want to acquire them without getting defeated by the OV who needs to do this in order to obtain their Villian tokens.
The methods they will use to escape defeating vary, but here is the ones I have observed:
Since this is having a detrimental effect on those players who are trying to collect the Villian tokens, I am proposing the system be changed so that the players have to oblige the OV with defeats in order to get their Guardian tokens.
My suggestion is that they will only gain their Guardian tokens when defeated, so they aren't making it a one sided battle that only benefits the attacking player.
And if they aren't flagged as defeated at least once, then they do not receive the final reward when the OV is defeated or chooses to let the turrets finish the battle.
But lately I've noticed a high degree of selfishness in players seeking their Guardian tokens.
They want to acquire them without getting defeated by the OV who needs to do this in order to obtain their Villian tokens.
The methods they will use to escape defeating vary, but here is the ones I have observed:
- IDF damage negation (100%) or Healing to 100% health every time they are injured.
- Standing near the turrets when attacked, in an attempt to trick the OV into targeting the turret instead of them.
- Leaving the map so they aren't defeated.
- Leaving the battle when it becomes apparent they can't get the OV to self-defeat.
Since this is having a detrimental effect on those players who are trying to collect the Villian tokens, I am proposing the system be changed so that the players have to oblige the OV with defeats in order to get their Guardian tokens.
My suggestion is that they will only gain their Guardian tokens when defeated, so they aren't making it a one sided battle that only benefits the attacking player.
And if they aren't flagged as defeated at least once, then they do not receive the final reward when the OV is defeated or chooses to let the turrets finish the battle.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
0
Comments
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Before I gave up fighting players for Villian Tokens, I had an unspoken rule, if I wasn't getting my prizes, then I would just leave and go find some more obliging UNTIL Defenders.
And because I wasn't in RenCen anymore, naturally there would be no final reward because I had chosen not to get defeated by the turrets.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
But if I'm at 25-30 tokens with 10 minutes left on the clock and the only ones who show up are invulnerability users and turret baiters, then naturally, I'm not going to waste those 10 minutes fighting players who aren't being helpful and just go away to get my points from the UNTIL Defenders.
And since there is only one source of Guardian tokens (unlike Villian tokens), keeping the OV player in the area so that they will dive is the only rational course of action.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I could understand any suggestion to make OVing more viable for the OV if that were a requirement, however it isn't.
Any good OV player will obtain the device, and calculate a route to ensure they have all their tokens by bouncing between OV / UNTIL Defender points, then running into Ren Cen for any added bonuses (player kills).
The Devs likely knew that this would turn sour or not go according to plan, so no player end requirement for tokens was put into the missions.
Note: I am looking at this from both the OV perspective (I obtained all my OV gear within the first nine days of Onslaught being released. I destroyed countless players as a Medusa OV and even posted a guide on forums for her use (and counter) ) and also the player perspective.
Players who are good sports...will be generally okay with dying, provided they get their guardian tokens by killing you.
Equally, OV's who are good sports will know that their ultimate "goal" is to die, not 'escape', so will keep track of time left on their device and also attack turrets to soften themselves up.
Yeah, it is annoying when players use certain builds or set ups to outlast the damage you can pile into them, but I personally don't mind it as long as everyone isn't doing it (unless there's loads of them, then the fun really kicks off)
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
Well, to be honest, you shouldn't even be in rencen before you have you 50 tokens. You can get them fairly quickly from just Defender points.
Also there is a fatal flaw in your proposition:
You're suggesting that Guardians have to lose on purpose to get their rewards when a current problem with the system is that Villains are losing on purpose to give away rewards. Your suggestion just adds more unintended behaviors to the system, and in this case really bizarre ones. You're trying to turn this into some weird mass sacrificial ritual and I don't think the game really needs that at this point.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
With the understanding that when the OV player gets their goal, they'll respond by giving the Guardian players their reward.
Basically, trading tokens for tokens so both parties involved get their rewards in a mutually beneficial arrangement.
Would you go to a player in Champions Online and demand they turn over their very rare item without giving them a item of equal value in return or paying them for selling it to you?
Or would you get in a taxi and ask them to drive you to your destination for free stating upfront they aren't going to be paid for the service they provide?
That is the logic being advocated here, wanting something for nothing.
And honestly, if I had my 50 tokens, I would have no reason to go to RenCen at all, because the mission would be complete!
Other then generosity to give Guardian players their free defeat.
But given the selfishness I've seen demonstrated by the majority of Guardian players, I'm sorry to say that I'm no longer feeling the need to assist them anymore.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I do sometimes wonder if the Devs had any clue that OVs would become this big collusion fest. Knowing human nature for what it is (typcially take the easiest route to get the reward) they should have been able to predict it. Makes me think that there was one person who really pushed for this hybrid PvP but didn't think it through.
It was usually done down where Kodiak stands due to: close by respawn point guarded by turrets and the OV vendor was just up the street. There were many and long epic battles tween OV and player heroes. Tokens flowed.
Eventually, the novelty wore out and many of the players that OV'd got their gear and were seldom seen after as an OV.
These days, the only time you see more than 1 OV in an area is between Defender and the Recognition Building. And even that is rare. Especially since if you are Grond, you can't really unleash your full potential without one or more of the turrets just taking you out.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
That is absolutely not intended behavior. That is behavior that shows that the OV system was designed poorly and cannot motivate the intended behavior. You really think the people who designed the system intended for this behavior? 'cause uh, I was around when they were implementing it and the intended behavior was that people actually fight each other.
Well, good thing there are plenty of generous people willing to do it. Have fun farming Until Defenders.
Well, there was a bit more to it than that.
- As is expected players started figuring out ways to screw with the system. Doing things like using gravity pulse to pull OVs into turrets very quickly made OVs feel like fighting players was too risky because you could quickly find your OV time ended. Eventually fixed by the next thing...
- The ability to use control effects on OVs often made it so OVs had trouble even fighting players, so then they were made immune to them which in turn made players feel like they couldn't do anything to slow down the OVs.
- Super tanky players were difficult to take down, and more and more of them would show up over time as players realized this, so the 1 attack on OVs was made to disable block which in turn meant squishier players became even more squishier which really just made this issue worse.
All these things combined into making OVs not want to fight Guardians, and making Guardians not want to fight OVs. Depending on players for tokens is too big of a risk for OVs because of their limited time, and for Guardians fighting an OV feels terrible and is literally just "dps the big bag of HP, and block his attacks unless he just disabled your block in which case you're dead".
The fact that OVs show up in Rencen to give away tokens is due to everyone knowing how goofed up the system is and deciding that people shouldn't be deprived of them just because the system is goofed. It's about as opposite of intended behavior as you can get o3o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Another thing is that OVs can't pick up item drops, including open mission rewards.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
Two groups outside until, across park to the single group near river, back across park to first 2.
Making sure to kill all extras.
Using medusa I only need 2 attacks, blast and lance rain.
hit jump around edge of building, cd done by the time they get to you , fire and jump again.
This is PVP, not free tokens for all. The intention as to get people to attack each other.
The problem the Dev who introduced this is, he liked pvp(he was the one who made best gear and put it in Hero games so people had to do PVP or buy it from people who did. )
A lot of players have no interest in it. The attempt at forcing people into doing PVP by making it part of a mission in NW didn't go down well either. People just found out which side was winning currently and joined them, they waited a long time in queues , people on the other team had short waits.
Don't forget the other bits of human nature.
1. Standing just outside the turret range at kodiak to serial kill the low level players.Grond's aoe attack.
2. Following the low level players around in or to 'accidentally' get hit by their AOE or damage aura.
3. Then we the SG who would get a load of members out in OV's so people had to change areas to get missions done. Oh and they would congregate at kodiak.
4. the ones who turn up at boss fights like Clarence in order to get "easy 200 points, why should I pass that up." This included standing on the reward after the fight, so people couldn't get to it.
and yes the first I warned the Devs would happen while it was still on pts.
The OV fights were meant to be only those who wanted to take part.
Instead of giving people an optout, they made it so you had to 'attack' and ov first. Which includes, them getting hit by a damage aura and by them deliberately standing in front of you while you are trying to do missions.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Instanced PvP would be good; Alert style queuing with a player controlled villain. Time limited, objectives for the OV and the Guardians (involving acquiring, defending and destroying buffs and debuffs and only then killing each other) in one of the PVP maps (which are a decent size). Give everyone plenty of tokens for playing, allow them to earn loads by being good. Let it become another thing you do everytime you log in.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
The only way to prevent collusion is by making it so that the winners receive significantly more reward than the loser, preferably with the losers getting almost nothing or even losing something. This is where we can see that OV was a bit doomed from the start - they wanted to make a pvp event, but for whatever reason decided not to make it competitive. That's why we have what we have now, an event that involves pvp mechanics, but is cooperative.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
These are fair points and I'd have no issue with winners and losers, scoreboards, etc, provided the game mode was balanced enough to provide continued interest as each match unfolds.
They can't be completely hardcore about rewards, though, because of the mini game nature of CO. There are so many other things to do that playing content which does not reward (or causes a loss of resource) is never going to be a popular choice.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
People who enjoy dueling do it. Shall we start a search to find someone who enjoys bouncing around M-City as an OV beating up Until Defenders enough that they would do it in the absence of rewards? Dueling even still has a reward in the form of an ego boost for winning ( assuming you and your opponent were actually trying ). I don't think anyone ever went "Yeah, I did that OV daily really well, big ups to me!".
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Tried something new today, in order to assess the respawn rate of the UNTIL Defenders.
Must be really fast, by the time I got back to the UNTIL/UNOTY building, the pair in front were back!
Before, I had been circling the entire map going after each Defender once, on the assumption that they wouldn't return for a while after being defeated.
A player mentioned something that may have lead me to that false conclusion, they indicated that if the entire support squad was not removed, it causes problems with their respawns and then pointed out they don't like OVs who go after the Defenders only.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Dueling also has no time investment, no barrier to entry, no prep time, no wait time, nothing to lose. As an example of "something people do despite there being no reward", it's pretty terrible because content in general is not going to have all of these qualities.
As for OV being badly designed, I believe I've covered that. In this thread and others. We're treading on really well worn ground with that one. However what was being responded to was that people duel despite the lack of rewards, and if you're saying that people wouldn't do OV without rewards because it's designed badly, are you then also saying that people engage in duels because player character based PvP in CO is designed well?
Also, every NPC in the squad has a chance of dropping Villain Tokens, so it only makes sense to defeat them all before moving on.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Looks like we found a member of that 1%.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.