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What is the point of endgame gear, exactly?

Not a flame thread or any of that. General question:
I see in one hand it's worth it to the completionist, but noticing the rest of the game, what is the actual point of endgame gear? I suppose a good thing is you can(if you have time that is) grab it in ~a month for a whole set?(maybe a month and a week or two left over), but I've never seen the place for it outside of cosmics which you do, ironically, to get endgame gear. Is there one where it's necessary/overtly helpful?
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

42 40s, LTSer.

Comments

  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,851 Arc User
    I think it has to do with a sense of progression more so than being gear for a specific purpose.

    If endgame gear counted towards content or was an entry requirement for certain content...it'd have to constantly provide a near unreasonable challenge to deserve it having endgame gear as an entry requirement. (IMO)
  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    For me, it's just so I can play my chars' builds easier. Having 2 sets(or more) can actually help dual builds. (e.g. tank/dps, dps/cc, cc/tank)

    And if you have the spare recogs and nothing else interests you, it wouldn't hurt to spend them on gears.
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  • rtmartma Posts: 1,199 Arc User
    In general, if you want to take an arrogant, self absorbed, facetious approach between those that do and don't have end game gear well then...
    200_d.giftenor.gif?itemid=3793655
    Yd0LJt8.gifgiphy.gif
    That and Grinding.
    Want to get to know me a bit better, Click me and take a read of My Dragon Profile Page, it's a bit dated but still relevant.

    I take this quote from a review that I agree with.

    "customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,629 Arc User
    I'm interesting on developenting my characters, not only on appearence and lore wise, but on Freeform builds to fit their themes and in order to improve their performance

    1. Character Progression: Better gear - Better character performance - Better DPS/TANK/SUPPORT - Better Theme Build
    2. Build Experimentation: Alternative Gear for Dual-Role Builds and Thematic Builds which use multiple frameworks
    3. Straight up getting them for my favorite characters: Doing Endgame gives me more reason to play as my fav characters and work on improving them. Thanks to revamps they got some really good updated builds
    4. Sometimes it's the Journey and not the Destination: I like Endgame PvE ¯\_(ツ)_/¯​​
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  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    avianos wrote: »
    I'm interesting on developenting my characters, not only on appearence and lore wise, but on Freeform builds to fit their themes and in order to improve their performance

    1. Character Progression: Better gear - Better character performance - Better DPS/TANK/SUPPORT - Better Theme Build
    2. Build Experimentation: Alternative Gear for Dual-Role Builds and Thematic Builds which use multiple frameworks
    3. Straight up getting them for my favorite characters: Doing Endgame gives me more reason to play as my fav characters and work on improving them. Thanks to revamps they got some really good updated builds
    4. Sometimes it's the Journey and not the Destination: I like Endgame PvE ¯\_(ツ)_/¯​​

    Neat!
    rtma wrote: »
    In general, if you want to take an arrogant, self absorbed, facetious approach between those that do and don't have end game gear well then...
    200_d.giftenor.gif?itemid=3793655
    Yd0LJt8.gifgiphy.gif
    That and Grinding.

    Well I guess that's one way to look at it. But, I mean..how do you even become arrogant in a game in which endgame gear doesn't matter/there's no real challenge outside of endgame, and that's pretty debatable actually as endgame is insanely easy.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    You don't need it anywhere, but it is functionally beneficial everywhere.

    1. It lets you do all content faster/easier.
    2. That energy gain proc on some endgame Utility pieces is pretty great for certain energy hungry builds.
    3. If your build uses multiple damage types and you want to slot multiple damage boost mods, you'll need a endgame Utility primary piece.
    4. Defense primary endgame piece is pretty handy for LR characters.


    Mainly #1. If you do stuff to get stuff then endgame gear will let you get that stuff faster.

    xcelsior41 wrote: »
    Well I guess that's one way to look at it. But, I mean..how do you even become arrogant in a game in which endgame gear doesn't matter/there's no real challenge outside of endgame, and that's pretty debatable actually as endgame is insanely easy.

    Some people could get a big head about their toast being crunchier than yours. Egotistical behavior often makes no sense.​​
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 956 Arc User
    Endgame gear is shinier. Must ... acquire ... it ...​​
    .

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  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    All-in-all, very fair statements! I've just constantly wondered 'why' when it came to endgame gear, now I have the why(at least, for other people's perspective :) .
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 677 Arc User
    avianos wrote: »
    I'm interesting on developenting my characters, not only on appearence and lore wise, but on Freeform builds to fit their themes and in order to improve their performance

    1. Character Progression: Better gear - Better character performance - Better DPS/TANK/SUPPORT - Better Theme Build
    2. Build Experimentation: Alternative Gear for Dual-Role Builds and Thematic Builds which use multiple frameworks
    3. Straight up getting them for my favorite characters: Doing Endgame gives me more reason to play as my fav characters and work on improving them. Thanks to revamps they got some really good updated builds
    4. Sometimes it's the Journey and not the Destination: I like Endgame PvE ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Basically my standpoint here. monkey-2.gifmonkey-2.gif​​
    @shadowolf505 in game, same on the forums too.

    || Main Tank || DPSer || Healer || CCer ||
  • tempestorm76tempestorm76 Posts: 90 Arc User
    For me I look at it this way... which of my characters do I consider Cosmic level? Luckily, only a handful. For those characters I, very slowly, work toward getting cosmic gear. For the rest I either swap around heirloom sets or get mercenary pieces.

    I cannot stress enough the very slowly part about that statement though as I have yet to complete a full set on any of the handful of characters I would like to have it.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    For me I look at it this way... which of my characters do I consider Cosmic level? Luckily, only a handful. For those characters I, very slowly, work toward getting cosmic gear. For the rest I either swap around heirloom sets or get mercenary pieces.

    I cannot stress enough the very slowly part about that statement though as I have yet to complete a full set on any of the handful of characters I would like to have it.

    I completely understand. It takes me the better part of a year to get one(if I even choose to do so which I almost never do) character geared. And I only have one char geared partially, with only 2 pieces of dist gear.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    Having L33T gear makes me better able to carry scrub teams in alerts. :p
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  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 956 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Having L33T gear makes me better able to carry scrub teams in alerts. :p

    Which, unfortunately, doesn't help them learn to use something other than their Energy Builder during Dino DPS check.

    I try to be diplomatic, most of the time, and explain it to them. Often, I'm rebuffed. Which just makes me feel like walking away from another 2 hour cosmic attempt.

    "But, it's a rank THREE Energy builder!"​​
    .

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  • waybig#9760 waybig Posts: 76 Arc User
    Well endgame gears are like the new toys to play with! also yes those are nice if you play dual builds, in term of performance.
  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 745 Arc User
    It provides a massive buff/improvement to just about any build, esp the primaries. Going from a new char recently to check this out, I think the DPS output doubled once upgrading from all of the heroics, and junk mods, to full justice, and OV/cosmic stuff. So it does make a pretty huge difference, I would say that it's pretty necessary for certain things like doing destroyer, esp now that it demands such a massive group of insane DPS to even think about winning in the end.
    [NbK]XStorm
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,199 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    lezard21 wrote: »
    OR people grind the endgame gear to increase their performance so as to lessen it for other players that still haven't grinded their endgame gear or are learning the ropes of their class, ie. gearing up a DPS so that he can cover the DPS of 2 other people for checks, gearing up a Tank so that he can comfortably Main tank without taking a lot of damage lessening the stress on a newbie healer, gearing up a CCer so that he doesn't require a pull or heals reducing the amount of tanks needed at Kiga or lessening the stress for tanks/healers.

    Or tl;dr people grind endgame gear to better contribute and do their part for the success of the team/raid. If everyone showed up to, say, Dino in their Heirloom gear, no one would get Dino done and that would end up being a problem for everyone, see?

    If anything your reply seems self absorbed to me since you are not able to see past how endgame gear can benefit anyone other than you.​​

    You do know what Facetious means? I stated it, in general context, it also depends on the intent, you may do it for both yourselves and others, depends really, otherwise people would be happy to use said heirlooms cause it still works, but others don't, why? cause it gets them what they want faster, which in retrospect, before roles were encouraged with Fire and Ice and eventually Cosmic Revamps, observations over the years I notice a predominant pattern of behavior especially with Alert runs others were complacent in supporting themselves primarily I assume being complacency and circumstance, easier to think of ones self such as reward incentives, but it's always been a choice,

    from my experience, I've suffered from this stagnation cause hardly anyone else wanted to play a Specialized Role or diverse build from conformity due to lack of statistical balance/practical applications (Maybe in reserve cause of lack of necessity, I know Ankh didn't see much action due to lack of need for pure heals, I've tried CC which is a joke how much it's trivialized in team content, breaks down to a interrupt/debuff instead) in Alerts that can be steamrolled in 5mins or less, even with exploiting over-performing Damage builds (Remember 2GM + Quarry trend?), don't deny it, people used and abused it until the devs fixed it which made it less appealing, cause it's human nature to find the path of least resistance (As far as efficiency vs Fun goes, subjective),

    Point being it goes both ways, how far are you willing to commit contributing as a team or/and serving yourself, cause in this world I find the latter to be more exacerbated, this is why I didn't elaborate to begin with and summarized it like a PvP build would with the GIFs above, thus being facetious cause it's a ambivalent topic, hope this better understands my perspective on this matter cause it seems I'm being misconstrued once again, I don't intend negativity, I just can't help what I notice.
    Want to get to know me a bit better, Click me and take a read of My Dragon Profile Page, it's a bit dated but still relevant.

    I take this quote from a review that I agree with.

    "customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    rtma wrote: »
    crazy-women-header.jpg

    CC is actually pretty great nearly everywhere though. Relegated to an interrupt/debuff? Try holding down the entire enemy team while yours gives them purple nurples!

    Also I don't actually ever see anyone being like "I have this gear and it makes me better than you!"... primarily because so many people have that gear, so doing that would seem silly. As far as people being "self-serving" I mean... whaddaya want? It's a video game, not a group of people trying to survive the wild frontier.​​
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,199 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    spinnytop wrote: »
    crazy-women-header.jpg

    CC is actually pretty great nearly everywhere though. Relegated to an interrupt/debuff? Try holding down the entire enemy team while yours gives them purple nurples!

    Also I don't actually ever see anyone being like "I have this gear and it makes me better than you!"... primarily because so many people have that gear, so doing that would seem silly. As far as people being "self-serving" I mean... whaddaya want? It's a video game, not a group of people trying to survive the wild frontier.​​

    Are you being Facetious now? mockery? ridicule? what difference would it make if I had a piece a paper justifying trying to understand the psychological then just observing like anyone else who would care to pay attention? doesn't change what happened and what is true, maybe make a fashion statement seeing who could wear the most foil, as for CC'ing, while alone you have control how you handle mobs, and certain circumstances like at cosmics, otherwise no-one gets what they want from Qwyjibo and Kigatillik (Eidolon to), but playing an Alert is a different story, how often does anyone respect a CC'er holding opposition? That hold is gonna break with a few friendly taps leading to what I've mentioned, Interrupts and Debuffs, if you're content with that then that's your choice, maybe making Hold HP a valid, scaling mechanic to CC Strength would make CC'ing valid in Team Content? the similar principles still apply, I don't expect that to change, it's very biological, as interesting and simple it seems.
    Want to get to know me a bit better, Click me and take a read of My Dragon Profile Page, it's a bit dated but still relevant.

    I take this quote from a review that I agree with.

    "customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    rtma wrote: »
    but playing an Alert is a different story, how often does anyone respect a CC'er holding opposition? That hold is gonna break with a few friendly taps leading to what I've mentioned, Interrupts and Debuffs, if you're content with that then that's your choice, maybe making Hold HP a valid, scaling mechanic to CC Strength would make CC'ing valid in Team

    Use Stuns. People can't break them.

    Also if your hold strength is strong enough, Paralyze can last nearly the entire life of even a tough mob.
    rtma wrote: »
    Are you being Facetious now? mockery? ridicule? what difference would it make if I had a piece a paper justifying trying to understand the psychological then just observing like anyone else who would care to pay attention? doesn't change what happened and what is true, maybe make a fashion statement seeing who could wear the most foil

    pIz6NlA.jpg​​
  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 745 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    And then the owl swooped down and ripped the little girl's face off, and ate her eyeballs, then the owl hooted.
    [NbK]XStorm
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    But the little girl used TK Barrage and stunned the owl until it died o3o​​
  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 978 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    xcelsior41 wrote: »
    Not a flame thread or any of that. General question:
    I see in one hand it's worth it to the completionist, but noticing the rest of the game, what is the actual point of endgame gear? I suppose a good thing is you can(if you have time that is) grab it in ~a month for a whole set?(maybe a month and a week or two left over), but I've never seen the place for it outside of cosmics which you do, ironically, to get endgame gear. Is there one where it's necessary/overtly helpful?

    I mean, what else ya gonna do with your time, go mountain-biking? Might as well grind gear.

    Seriously, though, it's not really necessary anywhere, but it is helpful everywhere. When they tried the "you need endgame gear to do this" there were wails of elitism and casual-hating. So, they took out all the challenge, but left the gear there to give people something to grind for.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    rtma wrote: »
    ...how often does anyone respect a CC'er holding opposition?
    Hey, if you can make the bad guy hold still for a few seconds while I charge up this here doggone Uppercut, I'm going to respect the bejeezus out of you, just sayin'.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 978 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    rtma wrote: »
    but playing an Alert is a different story, how often does anyone respect a CC'er holding opposition? That hold is gonna break with a few friendly taps leading to what I've mentioned, Interrupts and Debuffs, if you're content with that then that's your choice, maybe making Hold HP a valid, scaling mechanic to CC Strength would make CC'ing valid in Team

    Use Stuns. People can't break them.

    Also if your hold strength is strong enough, Paralyze can last nearly the entire life of even a tough mob.

    Whoa, wait, what? Did someone say CCers are bad in alerts??? In my experience, CCers are literally the best at pulling a trash PuG. Most CC builds can herd, tank, heal, and DPS. If they can't do all of those things, then they probably excel at one or more of them, and still are the most effective for supporting a bad pug. Most CC powers also have a secondary effect, a debuff or something, and damage.

    Some aggrotard pulls extra mobs? Okay, you guys stand down for a bit while we finish up here.

    Everybody standing around waiting for someone to take point? Okay, jump in there, CC out the alpha strike, heal up, then go to town.

    Not enough outgoing damage? Debuff.

    Too much incoming damage? Debuff.

    Yeah, CCing isn't as good in this game as it is in some, but it is still very powerful in supporting sub-optimal groups.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    Electric Current(with adv) +manip can pretty much immobilize any trash mob for a few seconds. And it's a 50ft, non-rooting cone attack you can fling around like confetti.
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  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    NO point at all. Nutjobs like Foxi walk into giant monster fights and outperform people while using merc and dillo gear.
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  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,385 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    To do the End Game content.
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  • If you are looking for justification to not get cosmic gear.... Yeah... You can just not do end game content and be satisfied with mediocre performance. If you make cool costumes and enjoy playing the leveling up content while experiencing different powersets... Great... Good for you. Other players enjoy making thier characters as powerful as they can using maths, spreadsheets, and parsers, while still making cool costumes. Thsts how they play and I say good for them. There's room for both playstyles in this game.

    Personally, i just enjoy 20 min TA runs more than 90 min TA runs.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    nepht wrote: »
    dillo gear.

    For a moment I thought that said something else O3O
    If you make cool costumes and enjoy playing the leveling up content while experiencing different powersets... Great... Good for you.

    I recently decided to start leveling up a character of each powerset I don't currently have a character of, so I guess I'm in both camps now. Amazingly it's been long enough since I leveled up via missions that now I'm actually having fun doing it again! Maybe I'll run into jonsils! :'3
    Nico-Cheer-Chibi-nico-yazawa-40094469-200-200.png​​
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    Trying to remember whether Captain Mercaptan is in Mill City or Canada just now - he's been running low-twenties missions, but I took a break to make sure I had time to get the summer event ship in STO on all three accounts. (RAdm K'tang, a Klingon officer of Starfleet, is currently happily ensconced aboard USS Rocinante, so I'm done with that now. :smile: )
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    So I figured I would go ahead and test the actual numbers involved, and here is what I found:

    YAwPw0i.jpg

    So yeah, endgame gear makes everything faster, especially when you pile on several layers of it.​​
  • gentlegiantvexxgentlegiantvexx Posts: 313 Community Moderator
    The point of Endgame gear is to help further solidify your build down to a T!
    Anything after Mercenary gear is pretty much min-max anyway, so it depends on the person's desire to just get a character to what they want and call it a day or get the character to do even more awesome!​​
  • jamesbonnelljamesbonnell Posts: 169 Arc User
    > @nepht said:
    > NO point at all. Nutjobs like Foxi walk into giant monster fights and outperform people while using merc and dillo gear.

    Hah. I resemble that remark also, I spend a lot of time on PTS poking and prodding builds....
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    So I figured I would go ahead and test the actual numbers involved, and here is what I found:
    YAwPw0i.jpg
    So yeah, endgame gear makes everything faster, especially when you pile on several layers of it.​​
    Now i wonder what a comparative piece using Heroic or randomly generated purple or blue would look like.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    Now i wonder what a comparative piece using Heroic or randomly generated purple or blue would look like.

    It looks something like this. The jump from rando exchange gear isn't quite as big as the leap from merc to GCR gear, probably because there aren't any set bonuses, and crit doesn't change very much ( severity doesn't change at all ). We can however see that Heroic is just better enough than mercs to justify its cost.
    X9MZ6GR.jpg​​
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    Hunh, a smaller spread than I'd expected, interesting. :)
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Posts: 9 Arc User
    > @pwestolemyname said:
    > xcelsior41 wrote: »
    >
    > Not a flame thread or any of that. General question:
    > I see in one hand it's worth it to the completionist, but noticing the rest of the game, what is the actual point of endgame gear? I suppose a good thing is you can(if you have time that is) grab it in ~a month for a whole set?(maybe a month and a week or two left over), but I've never seen the place for it outside of cosmics which you do, ironically, to get endgame gear. Is there one where it's necessary/overtly helpful?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I mean, what else ya gonna do with your time, go mountain-biking? Might as well grind gear.
    >
    > Seriously, though, it's not really necessary anywhere, but it is helpful everywhere. When they tried the "you need endgame gear to do this" there were wails of elitism and casual-hating. So, they took out all the challenge, but left the gear there to give people something to grind for.

    I cannot blame them, DCOU did the "you have to have endgame gear" thing and priced the gear way beyond what you could possibly get by grinding so it was unplayable once you hit level 29 or so unless you paid, which left a very bad taste in the mouths of a lot of superhero genre gamers and they may have been afraid it was happening here too.
  • psychicslugpsychicslug Posts: 587 Arc User
    To me its getting there that is the fun part testing out the powers creating looks and different characters and themes and back stories, The end content is about as interesting as some of the low level ones its all the same, rush and kill the bad, thats what its all about. some of the other lower stories are good and the other side mission or two, but unlike COH this game has kind of a one track mind on missions.
  • kyastralkyastral Posts: 342 Arc User
    So, does this mean I should keep my merc, heroic and determined gear even though there is new shiny gear to get? Interesting.. "goes to see how many gear boxes she has horded...*
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 956 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    If you are "just dpsing" or "just healing", you can still be solid and meet the Dino dps check in all basic blue 40 gear w/ only r5 mods ... as long as you follow some of the basic tenets of:

    -you should have 400+ points in the superstat that your FORM uses.
    -you should use a dps passive and dps stance or one of the auras + support stance for heals.

    The most difficulty in doing just the basic blue gear is getting the secondary effects already on the gear that you want + the superstat that fits your form. It isn't always available. Still, plenty of: +heal bonus, +crit, +sev, etc basic blue gear is found in the AH.

    *Primary Utility in basic blue is difficult to find as it really doesn't drop.​​
    .

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