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Release Notes 6/21/2018

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  • beezeezebeezeeze Posts: 927 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    lezard21 wrote: »
    The part that was dishonest was the part where they said that you were not meant to get more than 1 character slot upon hitting 40​​

    Yeah that was the bit I was referring to...because as you said they were not being dishonest about that other stuff.



  • alriialrii Posts: 62 Arc User
    oh, incoming changes gonna knock you on your knees! ...here let me help ya up... *kick to the face*

    we all knew changes were coming in, many of us were not happy and not all for the same reasons

    they made an awesome compromise by increasing the cap
    (and hopefully this paves a way for a buyable further cap increase down the line for those who want it)
    will that make everyone happy? no, but it is a decent compromise

    reducing the slot cost is also great help, esp for LTS and ongoing subs
    again, will that make everyone happy? no, but it is a decent compromise

    all in all, a far better deal than what was initially proposed (and yes it still needs to be tweaked for those who lapse their sub and are forced to retrain their characters to silver because they can't renew anymore - once subs are discontinued anyway)

    "It was intended that players were able to receive 1 extra slot for the first character they got to 40, but not any more after."

    that was an unnecessary statement and a kick-'em-when-they-are-down move, esp. for those who thrived on constant char-gen
    it just brought attention primarily to itself instead of the decent compromise so, um... way to screw-up a price-cut?

    the two extremes of gameplay for champs are:
    1) those who treat it as a game-game with visual fluff
    (where char progress is defined by ingame achievements, like gear etc.)
    2) those who treat it as an RP chat with visual fluff
    (where char progress is defined by stories with other players and adventures, think like nwn 1 and 2)

    the cap affects everyone but not equally... just accept ppl have a completely differing view and priority for how they approach the game
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    lezard21 wrote: »
    bottom-of-barrel.jpg​​

    They removed a feature AND lied about why. Not complicated.

    For them it seems to be, that's fine. Let em figure it out eventually, it's good for growth on their part.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    lezard21 wrote: »
    SO wait

    I've caught up to like 6 pages of this thread

    You are telling me that if the devs had gone and said "Yo we are removing this feature cause we want to make more money to mantain this game"

    You would all have been "Oh, cool, I'm ok with that" and not QQed at all about said changes?

    Am I understanding correctly that the problem here that fired a 6 page discussion is the possibility that senpai lied to me?

    ​​

    How about if they said, "Hey, Champs. We are ending the 1 slot each time you hit level 40 feature. With the new, heavily reduced price of character slots, this change made sense to us."

    Of course folks would still have been peeved, but not as many, and not for such an avoidable reason as "you lied".

    Pretty much what I said a page ago. Still agree with it though.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    Some good reads
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    lezard21 wrote: »
    Again, we are scrapping deep into the bottom of the barrell just for drama's sake here.​​

    OK, but let’s not distract from the real issue here: PWE and Cryptic management are gaslighting us by claiming that an advertised feature was always a bug. It may not have the same magnitude as “Oh, Daybreak Games isn’t really owned by Columbus Nova,” but the principle is exactly the same: A fact agreed upon by all parties suddenly isn’t a fact because it’s too inconvenient for one party.
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    rtma wrote: »
    Soo... Powerset(s) Review when?

    Soon hopefully. Since I started redoing builds on my characters, I've come to realize that several power sets that have not been reviewed....are not really desirable at the moment. They still have some powers I might take. But, overall, not really desirable to fully build into them.
    avianos wrote: »
    Like the powerframe revamp-rebalance schedule wasn't slow already... pig-19.gif​​

    Seriosuly, can we just, I don't know, work on them all at once all the time?
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Wait, I still don't understand why significantly lowering the price on something is going to make them more money? They just gave a huge benefit to the freebie players. Is this to try to attract more players?

    Lower prices typically cause people to buy more of the item, thus making more moeny.
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    soulforger wrote: »
    Wait, I still don't understand why significantly lowering the price on something is going to make them more money? They just gave a huge benefit to the freebie players. Is this to try to attract more players?

    Lower prices typically cause people to buy more of the item, thus making more moeny.

    Yep. I’m sure PWE/Cryptic’s intent was to lower the barriers to entry as low as possible without falling into a revenue-negative situation. The costs have all been amortized by now, so this is one of those cases where they really can make it up in volume.
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    gaslighting

    Oh good, people are sliding into that mindset. Who wants to catch me up on the latest cryptic/pwe conspiracy theories that are developing?
  • goblinman32goblinman32 Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    lol foxi there's literally evidence. Follow the links.

    Honestly, even if it was originally a bug, they actually did advertise it as a feature to sell subscriptions. It's extremely shady either way.

    For the record, I'm a former NWO player, so I'm wary of PWE's shenanigans. This is the same company that glitched my NWO character and tried to make me pay real money to fix it. I wish I was exaggerating.
  • carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 715 Community Moderator
    edited June 2018
    Recent announcements have created a lot of avoidable drama.

    When authoring public statements, please take more careful consideration of the playerbase's perspective. Without knowledge of internal development intentions, we can only assume that functioning aspects of the game are working as intended. Claiming that a freshly-removed aspect has always been a bug is perceived as a dubious justification from a player's point of view, if that aspect has not been clearly communicated as a bug in the past.

    The old free-to-play matrix did cite the free-slots-at-40 as a subscription feature; but it seems unreasonable to assume that the current team was fully aware of one sentence in a mouseover text box, from a web-archived article written several years ago by a different development/marketing team. I don't see much point in speculating on the knowledge/intentions of the old article's author, who is presumably no longer attached to the game.

    I do appreciate the effort to disclose a reason behind a change; but if a justification misaligns with player perception, it erodes trust/confidence in those presenting it. In this case, I would have preferred a matter-of-fact description of the change, without justification.
  • jamesbonnelljamesbonnell Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    $.02.

    Also, agreed with carrionbaggage.

    LTS. Not close to the 100 cap. Kind of annoyed I dropped several sets of 1400 zen for 2 slots in the past couple weeks, when I could have waited... BUT then I was assuming they were going to hard-cap at 59. Oh well the Zen spent was just saved up stipend I wasn't really using anyway since I don't buy much from the zen store. And I did enjoy leveling a few more 40s and getting my free slots...

    I did just drop another ... what, on sale less than 700 zen, on 10 more slots... so... okay, cool, I guess. That's a nice change and makes the whole "no more slots for hitting 40" thing more palatable.

    If I hadn't taken multiple breaks due to kids (one is 10, one is 5)... I'd probably be in the same boat as guyhumal and a few others and yeah, once I hit 100, I may be a lot less likely to play...

    ... because the powersets / combinations are what make the game for me. Leveling and getting new power combinations are my thing.

    I'm not up in arms about getting rid of the extra slot, but just saying flat out "We are removing this" without calling it a bug would have seemed more reasonable to me. Communication matters...

    OTOH - I don't mind redoing characters differently, so maybe after I hit the 100 cap, I'll keep playing.

    At least I'm planning to for now. LTS, no real reason not to for now.

    I do see why some of the 200+ character people, who were in it to make more more more... aren't too thrilled by this. I would probably be there too if I had played this as much as I played some other games... or didn't have kids...
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    Well, seems that Cryptic were still calling it a feature only a couple of weeks ago in their FAQ thing about the new changes...


    JsKo7pX.png

    ;)
    zrdRBy8.png
    Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    I’m really enjoying this
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    gaslighting

    Oh good, people are sliding into that mindset. Who wants to catch me up on the latest cryptic/pwe conspiracy theories that are developing?

    Would you prefer Jedi Mind Tricking? "[waves fingers] This is not the subscriber benefit you're looking for. You may go about your business buying character slots. Move along."
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • guyhumualguyhumual Posts: 2,336 Arc User
    Well, seems that Cryptic were still calling it a feature only a couple of weeks ago in their FAQ thing about the new changes...


    JsKo7pX.png

    ;)

    Wow, the proof just keeps rolling in.
  • jonesing4jonesing4 Posts: 794 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    soulforger wrote: »
    Lower prices typically cause people to buy more of the item, thus making more moeny.

    I can't buy any of the item. Whoops! :o
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    jonesing4 wrote: »
    soulforger wrote: »
    Lower prices typically cause people to buy more of the item, thus making more moeny.

    I can't buy any of the item. Whoops! :o

    Same here, this change was made in mind for people that do not have 100+ characters. That is part of the reason the "typically" is in my sentence. To show that this won't work on everyone.
  • pr0fp0ttspr0fp0tts Posts: 46 Arc User
    I imagine the price changes do make sense economically. Silver players, with only a couple of character slots, can now buy a new slot with just some Q-farming. Whilst Q-farming itself doesn't bring the game any money, more people playing it for longer likely does and, as people have pointed out numerous times, for many people the real 'end game content' for a game like this is creating a new character. Again, as some of those with multiple alts have pointed out up-thread, what's the motivation for buying, say, a new costume pack if you've not got a free character slot to make a character which would use that pack? Now more people will have more character slots, and more motivation to drop ca$h for whatever the latest sweet, sweet, costume pack is. Even if they're just buying silver character slots that means more motivation to unlock whatever the latest AT is and give it a go (whereas I'd imagine fewer people would be willing to delete or retcon an existing beloved character into a new AT just to give it a go).

    IMHO creative freedom is much more the driving force behind this game's longevity than running end-game content - I think even those who do run end-game content would probably agree that we don't get such content added on a terribly regular basis, and adding such content is what keeps other MMOs (those more focused on building a single uber-character) going long-term.

    (Oh, and I did go ahead a buy a new 'normal' character slot for a whopping 80 zen, and it appears with a nice gold border just like my other slots for being a subscriber. I've not built a character in that slot yet, but it's looking like it's still FF all the way for subs and LTS!)
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    kaizerin wrote: »
    ZEN Store
    • Freeform character slots are now 3000 ZEN (from 5000)
    ​​

    Has took nearly 10 years to price drop... hope the next 10 years the price drops to 2000z

    Even so, good job for this because is was the pebble in the shoe.

    silver FF only came out about 5 years ago
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
    4e1f62c7-8ea7-4996-8f22-bae41fea063b_zpsu7p3urv1.jpg

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  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/about/terms

    25.3We have the right at any time with or without reason to change and/or eliminate any aspect(s) of the Service as we see fit in our sole discretion.
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
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  • visionknightvisionknight Posts: 10 Arc User
    I am not a LTS, but I think those who are should get a discount on the purchase of new FF slots. Maybe even an increasing percentage based on how long they have held the LTS.
  • alriialrii Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    I am not a LTS, but I think those who are should get a discount on the purchase of new FF slots. Maybe even an increasing percentage based on how long they have held the LTS.

    any normal character slot purchased by an LTS is capable of housing a freeform since their account status will foever be Gold

    any normal character slot purchased by a subscriber is capabale of housing a freeform till their subscription lapses since that changes their account status from Gold to Silver

    freeform character slots are meant for Silvers to have access to the Gold power selection on that character regardless of account status changes
    chaelk wrote: »
    http://www.arcgames.com/en/about/terms

    25.3We have the right at any time with or without reason to change and/or eliminate any aspect(s) of the Service as we see fit in our sole discretion.

    i know... long thread but not what the issue is here >.<
    they obviously can make whatever changes they want
    they obviously should also be ready to face our reactions coz
    we obviously can react however we want
    most of us who are angry, are angry at the way they phrased their discretion
    that was really not cool

    edit: tiny clarifications~
    Post edited by alrii on
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 866 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    chaelk wrote: »
    25.3We have the right at any time with or without reason to change and/or eliminate any aspect(s) of the Service as we see fit in our sole discretion.

    Quoting this as justification for any action the company takes is missing the point. Would anyone enter into an agreement which included a clause like this, if they had no trust in the other party? This quote just underlines why this whole deception was stupid and short-sighted.

  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    vonqball wrote: »
    chaelk wrote: »
    25.3We have the right at any time with or without reason to change and/or eliminate any aspect(s) of the Service as we see fit in our sole discretion.

    Quoting this as justification for any action the company takes is missing the point. Would anyone enter into an agreement which included a clause like this, if they had no trust in the other party? This quote just underlines why this whole deception was stupid and short-sighted.

    It's really the semantic of lying. That's it, I don't care about the ToS. It's pretty obvious the stuff in the ToS would help C.Y.A(cover your **** for those who don't know) in a corporate sense. It's the bad practice of lying. That garners mistrust in the community going forward. Small oversight now, but big issue in the future.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • iamruneiamrune Posts: 963 Arc User
    Well, seems that Cryptic were still calling it a feature only a couple of weeks ago in their FAQ thing about the new changes...


    JsKo7pX.png

    ;)

    Ah--- hahahahaha!

    So, it's been a feature of the game since Alpha til.. three weeks ago, and NOW suddenly it's a bug.

    Seriously, somebody at PWI isn't paying much attention at this point.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,621 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    iamrune wrote: »
    *snip*

    While I fully agree the wording in the patch notes was very a bad decision, do keep in mind cryptic hasn't made any further claims about it being an actual bug. The continued "it's not a lie, it's really a bug" stuff comes from a very small portion of players. And by now you should probably start to question why those players are trying so hard to escalate this even further.
  • johnystelar1johnystelar1 Posts: 67 Arc User
    I like how people keep saying "OMG ARENT U HAPPY ABOUT THE PRICES" Yes, we are, we all are, this is good, 1$ for a character? Heck yeah, that's awesome, essentially we still get free toons with the stipend and stuff.

    but we're mad about that lie about the bug. that's what people are complaining about, not the other stuff, so please stop using the "why are you crying about price drops" excuse.
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    Some people just love to swallow what is fed to them
  • iamruneiamrune Posts: 963 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    aiqa wrote: »
    iamrune wrote: »
    *snip*

    While I fully agree the wording in the patch notes was very a bad decision, do keep in mind cryptic hasn't made any further claims about it being an actual bug. The continued "it's not a lie, it's really a bug" stuff comes from a very small portion of players. And by now you should probably start to question why those players are trying so hard to escalate this even further.

    Oh, I know. I know. I'm not one of the people who are super angry or anything, I'm more like.. saddened. I trusted Cryptic. This is the first time they really let me down.

    As far as 'those' players, it's just Spinny, and as far as I can tell, his motivation is the same as it's always been; he's a troll.

    He's here to stir up trouble and laugh at anyone who falls for his posts or threads.
  • guyhumualguyhumual Posts: 2,336 Arc User
    I like how people keep saying "OMG ARENT U HAPPY ABOUT THE PRICES" Yes, we are, we all are, this is good, 1$ for a character? Heck yeah, that's awesome, essentially we still get free toons with the stipend and stuff.

    but we're mad about that lie about the bug. that's what people are complaining about, not the other stuff, so please stop using the "why are you crying about price drops" excuse.
    Quick reminder, some of us can't get any new toons anymore, that's only going to affect a handful of people, but there are folks who are negatively affected by this

  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 866 Arc User
    ^Yeah, and I know that some incurable altitis sufferers are also some of our games most ginormous whales... not entirely sure that alienating such majestic cetaceans is a great idea. Ofc, if huge numbers of alts are actually causing technical issues of some kind, then something needs to be done. It would be nice to throw these folks a bone though... like a discount on another account or something.
  • johnystelar1johnystelar1 Posts: 67 Arc User
    Oh yeah, my mistake, I'm on that same boat too, I have alot of alts, that does suck for me, and some friends, I just thought people were mostly focused on the 'bug' thing in this thread.
  • jonesing4jonesing4 Posts: 794 Arc User
    Oh yeah, my mistake, I'm on that same boat too, I have alot of alts, that does suck for me, and some friends, I just thought people were mostly focused on the 'bug' thing in this thread.

    Yeah, the delivery of the news is just the middle finger after the groin kick.
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    It's also interesting to note that this thread, like the the vast majority (if not all?) of threads that have anything to do with the changes seem to have been marked to not rise in the list of threads that you see when you hit the 'discussions' button, unlike the norm for threads when commented upon.

    That way they just keep sinking down in that list, as other threads rise to the top when commented upon.


    bouWTsb.gif

    zrdRBy8.png
    Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    I'm sure there's a conspiracy theory in there somewhere. Keep brainstorming.
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    Maybe it's a bug ;)
    zrdRBy8.png
    Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    aiqa wrote: »
    iamrune wrote: »
    *snip*

    While I fully agree the wording in the patch notes was very a bad decision, do keep in mind cryptic hasn't made any further claims about it being an actual bug. The continued "it's not a lie, it's really a bug" stuff comes from a very small portion of players. And by now you should probably start to question why those players are trying so hard to escalate this even further.

    Because doing otherwise breeds complacency. A few quotes about complacency:

    The tragedy of life is often not in our failure, but rather in our complacency; not in our doing to much, but rather in our doing too little; noti in our living above our ability, but rather in our living beloew our capacities.

    I always say, complacency is the kiss of death.

    Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.

    Complacency is the forerunner of mediocrity. You can never work too hard on attitudes, effort and technique.

    If it anit' broke, don't fix it' is the slogan fo the complacent, the arrogant or the scared. It's an excuse for inaction, a call to non-arms.

    We are now faced with the fact that tomorrow is today. We are confronted with the fierce urgency of now. In this unfolding conundrum of life and histroy, there "is" such a thing as being to late. This is no time for apathy or complacency. This is a time for vigorous and positivie action.

    Success breeds complacency. Complacency breeds failure. Only the paranoid survive.

    Take the last one as you will, I find it funny.

    Of course, here is a few for those that do not want change, ever:

    You need to have a redesign because familiarity breeds a kind of complacency.

    He who is content with what has been done is an obstacle in the path of progress.

    Sometimes success needs interruption to regain focus and shake off complacency.

    Nuff quotes. The fact that you are just accept this change shows complacency. Yet the people who did not want the change, nor any change, have also fallen into the trap known as complacency.

    There is always the middle ground. They have met us somewhat in the middle, with 100 character slots and massive lowering of prices on character slots. But, the free character slots was not that great of a change. We get that they can change the game whenever they want. But, we should not just roll over for a reason that is an outright lie.

    At the very least, Cryptic has not outright come out and backed up the bug claim. And by continuing to raise a stink, hopefully, Cryptic will think twice before making claims like that in the future.
  • darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 932 Arc User
    I think this thread shows we're not stupid enough to believe anything they say without some deductive reasoning.

    Hopefully it's the last time we get the "after 8 years it's a bug" spiel.
  • psychicslugpsychicslug Posts: 587 Arc User
    Maybe it's a bug ;)

    Oh no it's a feature until they want it to be a bug.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,621 Arc User
    soulforger wrote: »
    *snip*

    Since when is escalating the only alternative to complacency?
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,199 Arc User
    aiqa wrote: »
    Since when is escalating the only alternative to complacency?

    When people don't care or get what they want with talk?
    Want to get to know me a bit better, Click me and take a read of My Dragon Profile Page, it's a bit dated but still relevant.

    I take this quote from a review that I agree with.

    "customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
  • I'd like to know if there was any more word on whether or not we'd be able to convert silver slots to Freeform slots if we don't have monthly Gold memberships anymore? Hoping this feature could be added to the Zen store. :#
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